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[AwShucks]

Aren't early access games full price?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

fucking exactly. people complaining that the game doesn't teach you anything should print this and stick it to their foreheads.

Maybe you should read the post a few above yours. Most of those games at least explain what the systems in the games actually do. Street Fighter V doesn't even do that.

Shooters attach stats to their guns so that you have an inkling of an idea of how the guns work. Every game mode has a brief explanation of the objective.

LoL has a character select screen that looks like this.

Where it clearly explains what a characters special moves are.

No one here is asking Capcom to add in videos of how to do combos for every character. No one is saying that they should just show people all of the strategies that exist within the game. They're asking for explanations of basic ass game play elements. Which most games actually take the time to do.

The game doesn't even tell me basic shit like what my V-Trigger does. It would be like if the developers of LoL completely cut off that bottom bar of the picture that tells you what the characters special ability does. Fortunately they were smart enough to put that shit there so the player doesn't have to waste their time figuring out basic shit with trial and error.

 

[Rhaknar]

Aren't early access games full price?

Shhhh that part doesn't matter

Jokes aside, most are yes. There are some exceptions where games are cheaper during EA but most end up being the same price. Or even more sometimes.

But the problem (well "problem") is that the majority of EA games are of course, cheaper indie titles

 

[Steve Youngblood]

My biggest issue with the tutorial at the beginning of SFV is not that it doesn't adequately explain the mechanics in as much as everything about it just seems so cheap and cobbled together. If I hadn't already read all the chatter about how lacking in content it is and how it feels rushed for release, that opening story/tutorial sequence conveys that sentiment just fine on its own.

 

[Teeth]

Also various items tell you what they do. Sometimes it's not "boosts attack for 3 minutes" but something like "this drink is said to make whomever drinks it as strong as a capra demon for a limited time". Some straight up say things like "prevents estus healing in an area". So while it doesn't tell you "do this now, do this when this happens" it tells you how to use the tools but not so much when or why. You learn how to parry because it says in a note "L2 with shield equipped: Parry" but it's up to you to implement it. SFV says "Press hKick and hPunch to V-Trigger" but doesn't tell you what that means because it's different for each character. And not in a "Camy's kick is different that Ryu's kick" but in a "Nash teleports but Rashid kicks out a wind wall and Karin's hand kinda get set on fire".

Would it be nice for the game to coach you and say this is when you use this, this is when you use that? YES! It'd be very helpful to new players and help grow the community. Guilty Gear Xrd has a bunch of different cancels, like you use it in the air it does one thing, use it when getting attacked it does another etc but the game actually says why you would use them. It's still part of explaining what the mechanic does and it's like a few lines but it helps.

I'm not going to get into the Dark Souls thing because, well, it's not a good comparison for a variety of reasons.

I also am not going to defend SF5 too hard because I a) haven't played it, so I don't know what it doesn't have, and b) have played SF for 20+ years so I'm not really the audience for a basic tutorial, as I lived through an age where they often didn't even have a move list on the cabinet and combos were voodoo magic.

That said, if the game tells you that pressing MP+MK does something, and you do that in a match or training session, are you not given some sort of visual cue? Like your hands zapping with electricity or your feet blazing of fire or doing some move?

Is there a move list in the pause menu?

 

[Iced Arcade]

Played for a bit today and can't say it's a bad game but it definitely should be a $30 with free DLC later.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

I was shocked when I started reading how limited the whole game is, and I agree it should only be $30 at this point.

 

[Zomba13]

I'm not going to get into the Dark Souls thing because, well, it's not a good comparison for a variety of reasons.

I also am not going to defend SF5 too hard because I a) haven't played it, so I don't know what it doesn't have, and b) have played SF for 20+ years so I'm not really the audience for a basic tutorial, as I lived through an age where they often didn't even have a move list on the cabinet and combos were voodoo magic.

That said, if the game tells you that pressing MP+MK does something, and you do that in a match or training session, are you not given some sort of visual cue? Like your hands zapping with electricity or your feet blazing of fire or doing some move?

Is there a move list in the pause menu?

Yeah, it's the same input for everyone (same for skill and trigger) and stuff does happen. But sometimes it's clear, you press the trigger buttons and *bamf* behind an opponent and know "Oh ok, Nash's trigger is a teleport behind the opponent" but then you have Karin (or Ken, or Ryu etc) where you hit the trigger and your hands glow and it's like "ok... cool?" You then notice that sometimes Ryu hits will shock people, ok, why does that matter? You notice Ken's hadokens are now fire ones. ok. That's the obvious stuff, but it doesn't say what it actually does. It doesn't say in the move list "augments certain moves with fire increasing damage" or "allows you to charge Hadokens for more damage". Some characters have moves that say "(Changes under effects of V-Trigger)" or something like that. But sometimes those moves don't appear to change at all.

The game just doesn't say what this system does for different characters. You get the visual cue (fire hands etc) but it's not obvious what is happening. Even in training, where you have the time to trigger it and try and puzzle it out. Rashid has several moves that apparently change in V-Trigger, but his one is a tornado wall, he kicks it out like a mini super move. You walk into it and get shot out (as in you move fast through it) but it doesn't augment any special move from what I've tried so why does it say it does?. The game has this cool new system that can make each character unique and gives them more options in a fight but doesn't actually say what it does let alone why you would use it and when.

 

[Resilient]

Maybe you should read the post a few above yours. Most of those games at least explain what the systems in the games actually do. Street Fighter V doesn't even do that.

Shooters attach stats to their guns so that you have an inkling of an idea of how the guns work. Every game mode has a brief explanation of the objective.

LoL has a character select screen that looks like this.

Where it clearly explains what a characters special moves are.

No one here is asking Capcom to add in videos of how to do combos for every character. No one is saying that they should just show people all of the strategies that exist within the game. They're asking for explanations of basic ass game play elements. Which most games actually take the time to do.

The game doesn't even tell me basic shit like what my V-Trigger does. It would be like if the developers of LoL completely cut off that bottom bar of the picture that tells you what the characters special ability does. Fortunately they were smart enough to put that shit there so the player doesn't have to waste their time figuring out basic shit with trial and error.

Um...dude, come on. DS does not explain shit. To say that it does completely shits on the ethos and the entire atmosphere of the game. You are alone. LoL explains what the move does, but it might as well say "an attack comes out" because the depth behind what the move does, the complexity is - you guessed it - tucked away on the internet. Riot doesn't explain shit, nor should they. Rather, why should they? The community has already done it. And it comes back to "this is the reality of the competitive games, we have accepted it". Again, CoD might tell you what each perk does, but it doesn't explain why certain combinations are better than others. Again, that's on the internet.

If you're telling me, that having an explanation of the V-Trigger that is barely a sentence long will fix your issues with the game and it's explanations...man, I can't buy that. The way people in this thread are making it out, they want FULL explanations of what each move does. Yeah, ok, that's realistic. Let me just put a paragraph under each move because you're too lazy to go to SRK or YouTube. Come on son.

 

[Zomba13]

If you're telling me, that having an explanation of the V-Trigger that is barely a sentence long will fix your issues with the game and it's explanations...man, I can't buy that. The way people in this thread are making it out, they want FULL explanations of what each move does. Yeah, ok, that's realistic. Let me just put a paragraph under each move because you're too lazy to go to SRK or YouTube. Come on son.

So it's better to not have that stuff?

 

[CLEEK]

My biggest issue with the tutorial at the beginning of SFV is not that it doesn't adequately explain the mechanics in as much as everything about it just seems so cheap and cobbled together. If I hadn't already read all the chatter about how lacking in content it is and how it feels rushed for release, that opening story/tutorial sequence conveys that sentiment just fine on its own.

Yeah, the game screams that it wasn't ready for release. Story mode has the exact same unpolished feeling to it, dumped in as a token gesture to single players.

I don't see how this model will work out for Capcom. They're damaging the brand by pumping out this glorified demo at full retail price. Games sales are always front loaded for the first few weeks after release. The user backlash has been loud and clear. The core audience will have bought the game on day-one, yet the casual / mainstream audience will be put off by all the negativity.

It's going to be several months before the game resembles an actual $60 retail game. The game could have bombed well before then.

 

[Nocturno999]

They don't have the budget for it. The game barely got made as it is, and only because of Sony.

They always say the same BS with exclusivity deals.

 

[Uthred]

I dont get why people are against having this kind of material in the game, as I outlined earlier it benefits everyone and there's no downside to it. I mean at this point Capcom are using the resources to produce content along these lines, just not including it in the game, for...reasons (then again they havent even managed to get direct input working right so one thing at a time).

Rather, why should they?

Why shouldnt they? Other fighting games do, other versions of Street Fighter do it whats so fucking magic about Street Fighter V that they cant?

Let me just put a paragraph under each move because you're too lazy to go to SRK or YouTube. Come on son.

Players dont want to look stuff up outside the game; they're lazy. But developers who dont want to do the bare minimum arent? Some next level apologist bullshit, oops, I meant "Come on son."

 

[Resilient]

So it's better to not have that stuff?

There is stuff, on the Internet. You're just ignoring it, like the majority of my post. Your loss. I mean, if there is something I don't know I'll just look it up. It's faster than coming online here and complaining about it.

Why shouldnt they? Other fighting games do, other versions of Street Fighter do it whats so fucking magic about Street Fighter V that they cant?

Players dont want to look stuff up outside the game; they're lazy. But developers who dont want to do the bare minimum arent? Some next level apologist bullshit, oops, I meant "Come on son."

Why should they if it's already on the Internet? Is it because of this?

Players dont want to look stuff up outside the game

Well, if players want to know, like I said - they can look it up. Like we did for 3s and like we did for a lot of SF4. The only apologist bullshit here is defending the laziness of people who want the info spoonfed.

 

[ArtHands]

I'll be waiting for the dlc to come and the price to drop. They deserves to be call out more. Shame it is getting a free pass from many people because its a sony console exclusive.

 

[Teeth]

Yeah, it's the same input for everyone (same for skill and trigger) and stuff does happen. But sometimes it's clear, you press the trigger buttons and *bamf* behind an opponent and know "Oh ok, Nash's trigger is a teleport behind the opponent" but then you have Karin (or Ken, or Ryu etc) where you hit the trigger and your hands glow and it's like "ok... cool?" You then notice that sometimes Ryu hits will shock people, ok, why does that matter? You notice Ken's hadokens are now fire ones. ok. That's the obvious stuff, but it doesn't say what it actually does. It doesn't say in the move list "augments certain moves with fire increasing damage" or "allows you to charge Hadokens for more damage". Some characters have moves that say "(Changes under effects of V-Trigger)" or something like that. But sometimes those moves don't appear to change at all.

The game just doesn't say what this system does for different characters. You get the visual cue (fire hands etc) but it's not obvious what is happening. Even in training, where you have the time to trigger it and try and puzzle it out. Rashid has several moves that apparently change in V-Trigger, but his one is a tornado wall, he kicks it out like a mini super move. You walk into it and get shot out (as in you move fast through it) but it doesn't augment any special move from what I've tried so why does it say it does?. The game has this cool new system that can make each character unique and gives them more options in a fight but doesn't actually say what it does let alone why you would use it and when.

Hmmmm

I'm a little conflicted on this. On one hand, knowing that the systems exist and that they can augment other moves (especially obvious stuff like seeing Ken's hurricane kick light people up or Chun's moves hit for multiple hits), I feel like that can lead to discovery. Additionally, the very competitive aspect of fighting games can lead to some great discovery. Seeing someone multi-super me with Oro or kara-cancel me in a SF3 match (and beating me handily) drove me more to play the game and discover its depths than any guide.

Now, kara cancelling is clearly way more advanced than what you are looking for, but even something like red-parries are relatively basic mechanics that went unexplained but had the mystery of "secrets" or technique that incentivized discovery. With V-triggers - you know they are there, they have to do something right?

A lot of it probably comes from an arcade heritage, where unexplained things were seen as a feature by designers as they drove repeat revenue.

But I also think it is a design ethos: not telling you what your Vtrigger does expressly incentivizes you to try things. If it doesn't, it incentivizes you to engage with the community (through friends, message boards or, essentially, promotional material). Keeping you within the game restricts a lot of that. Historically, a lot of the least tutorialized games have the longest life spans (Street Fighter, MOBAs, CS, EverQuest, etc.) and I feel a lot of that is due to the long tail of discovery by the player base and dissemination of information through community. The game not telling you incentivizes community.

On the other hand, I recognize that it can alienate beginners who just want to know what's going on. I feel like they fall back on the notion that, if the game is good enough, the player will do what they can to keep playing it.

Getting bodied online is a matchmaking issue, not necessarily a tutorial issue.

 

[CLEEK]

I'll be waiting for the dlc to come and the price to drop. They deserves to be call out more. Shame it is getting a free pass from many people because its a sony console exclusive.

I haven't seen any Sony apologists. It's all the toxic FGC folks that are defending the game hand over fist. "muh ranked online is fine, stfu with your complainants scrub"

 

[Dark Ninja]

Um what aren't early access games full price? So they priced it appropriately?

 

[Uthred]

There is stuff, on the Internet. You're just ignoring it, like the majority of my post. Your loss. I mean, if there is something I don't know I'll just look it up. It's faster than coming online here and complaining about it.

You know whats even faster? Having access to it in a game you're already playing. Like several other fighting games do but SF V cant because....reasons apparently.

Why should they if it's already on the Internet? Is it because of this?

I, and several others, have covered (at length) why they "should"

Well, if players want to know, like I said - they can look it up. Like we did for 3s and like we did for a lot of SF4. The only apologist bullshit here is defending the laziness of people who want the info spoonfed.

Ah yes, you are so amazingly hardcore for using google as opposed to clicking on a tutorial menu option. And I mean we did it in the past so thats of course a fabulous argument as to why we should still do it now. I honestly dont get how people can advance that argument and not shiver at how stupid it is. Well I have my suspicions. Anyhow, as much fun as making the same argument against the same points is I'm done arguing with people championing ignorance and developer laziness.

But I also think it is a design ethos: not telling you what your Vtrigger does expressly incentivizes you to try things. If it doesn't, it incentivizes you to engage with the community (through friends, message boards or, essentially, promotional material). Keeping you within the game restricts a lot of that. Historically, a lot of the least tutorialized games have the longest life spans (Street Fighter, MOBAs, CS, EverQuest, etc.) and I feel a lot of that is due to the long tail of discovery by the player base and dissemination of information through community. The game not telling you incentivizes community.

No offense, but no it doesnt. It "incentivises" you to Google it, which is clearly what the developer expects you to do in this case. I also dont buy your argument that ignorance incentivises community, especially ignorance of something as basic as move properties. Emergent gameplay would take care of that so adding a further pointless layer of ofbustication serves no purpose, theres also the fact the the longest lived gaming communities historically are for games with perfect information where the entire meat of the discourse and community was due to emergent play, tactics and strategy.

 

[Nanashrew]

There is stuff, on the Internet. You're just ignoring it, like the majority of my post. Your loss. I mean, if there is something I don't know I'll just look it up. It's faster than coming online here and complaining about it.



Why should they if it's already on the Internet? Is it because of this?



Well, if players want to know, like I said - they can look it up. Like we did for 3s and like we did for a lot of SF4. The only apologist bullshit here is defending the laziness of people who want the info spoonfed.

It's not being spoonfed information. If i'm going to a class I expect to be taught, I expect to learn, homework tells me to look up stuff for additional information and using my own words. Players don't know what to look for, what to learn, how old or new the information is, they're just thrown to this or that on the deep end of a pool.

 

[Tingle]

There is stuff, on the Internet. You're just ignoring it, like the majority of my post. Your loss. I mean, if there is something I don't know I'll just look it up. It's faster than coming online here and complaining about it.



Why should they if it's already on the Internet? Is it because of this?



Well, if players want to know, like I said - they can look it up. Like we did for 3s and like we did for a lot of SF4. The only apologist bullshit here is defending the laziness of people who want the info spoonfed.

By paying 60 dollars for the game, new players have already demonstrated some sort of interest in learning the game, even if the game has essentially no method of teaching these new players.

 

[Resilient]

I haven't seen any Sony apologists. It's all the toxic FGC folks that are defending the game hand over fist. "muh ranked online is fine, stfu with your complainants scrub"

I'm not defending that community, but I want to say this. You have a lot of people that are happy the game is released now. Then you have people calling out the company or saying it should have been delayed because it wasn't ready. The thing is, we knew what we were getting Day 1. Capcom made it clear. So if you bought this game thinking you were gonna get a whole lot of content, you fucked up.

You were too lazy to actually research what you were gonna buy. So you could have also just waited until the content you want comes out, and then bought it. And then the other party can also just buy the game and enjoy it now too, knowing what they were buying and enjoying what they knew they were gonna get. You always have a choice. A consumer always, always has a choice with these things. They made it clear af. So why would you complain afterwards? Simple - you refuse to accept that you fucked up.

Basically, saying it should have been delayed is bullshit. They can release whatever they want, and people can either buy it or not. You do not get to say "it should have been delayed, there is nothing for me to play! I was screwed!" when they have already told us what we were getting.

 

[BennyBlanco]

My biggest issue with the tutorial at the beginning of SFV is not that it doesn't adequately explain the mechanics in as much as everything about it just seems so cheap and cobbled together. If I hadn't already read all the chatter about how lacking in content it is and how it feels rushed for release, that opening story/tutorial sequence conveys that sentiment just fine on its own.

All the content in story mode too.

 

[DrArchon]

Well, if players want to know, like I said - they can look it up. Like we did for 3s and like we did for a lot of SF4. The only apologist bullshit here is defending the laziness of people who want the info spoonfed.

You heard it here folks, basic tutorials are spoonfeeding and everyone that wants them is lazy and entitled.

 

[twobear]

hey, don't forget that sony paid them to do it

 

[Emitan]

Um...dude, come on. DS does not explain shit. To say that it does completely shits on the ethos and the entire atmosphere of the game. You are alone. LoL explains what the move does, but it might as well say "an attack comes out" because the depth behind what the move does, the complexity is - you guessed it - tucked away on the internet. Riot doesn't explain shit, nor should they. Rather, why should they? The community has already done it. And it comes back to "this is the reality of the competitive games, we have accepted it". Again, CoD might tell you what each perk does, but it doesn't explain why certain combinations are better than others. Again, that's on the internet.

If you're telling me, that having an explanation of the V-Trigger that is barely a sentence long will fix your issues with the game and it's explanations...man, I can't buy that. The way people in this thread are making it out, they want FULL explanations of what each move does. Yeah, ok, that's realistic. Let me just put a paragraph under each move because you're too lazy to go to SRK or YouTube. Come on son.

It would be nice to know what the V-skills do since for half the cast its not obvious at all. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

[Uthred]

You heard it here folks, basic tutorials are spoonfeeding and everyone that wants them is lazy and entitled.

Dont forget, its only spoonfeeding if its included in the game, if you heroically tear the knowledge from the internets still beating heart with teeth made of google searches you're a true world warrior

 

[UberTag]

Would it be nice for the game to coach you and say this is when you use this, this is when you use that? YES! It'd be very helpful to new players and help grow the community. Guilty Gear Xrd has a bunch of different cancels, like you use it in the air it does one thing, use it when getting attacked it does another etc but the game actually says why you would use them. It's still part of explaining what the mechanic does and it's like a few lines but it helps.

Guilty Gear Xrd's tutorial was invaluable for educating me on all of the finer aspects of gameplay that I would have otherwise overlooked. As a result, I was that much more invested in learning them and happily invested more time with that title than I have with any fighting game since vanilla Street Fighter IV.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Um what aren't early access games full price? So they priced it appropriately?

That's not what I observed, most early access games go through changes in pricing during the development and a lot state on their page that they wil be more expensive once the game is released as a full-complete release. I've bought maybe 3 early access games all in the range of 20 bucks.

The pricing differs quite a bit between them though, they charge what they think is appropriate. If they misjudge then bad consumer reception is one of the possible reactions. Sales will show if they can ignore the negative reviews.

 

[DrArchon]

Dont forget, its only spoonfeeding if its included in the game, if you heroically tear the knowledge from the internets still beating heart with teeth made of google searches you're a true world warrior

Maybe this is why we don't get in-depth manuals for games anymore. Publishers just got fed up supporting the lazy lifestyle that so many gamers got hooked on.

 

[CLEEK]

The thing is, we knew what we were getting Day 1. Capcom made it clear. So if you bought this game thinking you were gonna get a whole lot of content, you fucked up.

Please point me to the Capcom statement or Ono interview where they say that story mode is only 2-4 single round fights on easy mode that takes a few minutes to beat, and that's the sum total of traditional vs CPU playing.

You can't. Even a couple of weeks ago, Ono did an interview where he was talking about catering for casuals and single players (even referring to it an an arcade mode).

http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/25/street-fighter-v-yoshinori-ono-interview/

For players who aren't at this level of competitive gameplay, how do you make sure the game is still fun for them and encourage them to go online and keep them from getting their butts kicked by more experienced players — or even just provide a good single-player experience? How do you balance those goals?

With Street Fighter V, there will be a tutorial for beginners in there that teaches the very basic stuff. From there, people can go into the [arcade mode] and play the character stories and immerse themselves in the world of Street Fighter V.

I don't know the exact number of people who are actually asking for this, but I can say that after we announced the game, left and right when I was meeting with press and media, they'd be asking, "What are you going to do with the story mode?" And then my Facebook and Twitter accounts were getting bombarded with people asking me what's going on with the story. Honestly, I was expecting people to ask about new battle mechanics, but really the main voice was asking, "What's going on with the story?"

Street Fighter is almost approaching its 30th year, and I've been working on the brand for a very long time, and so ... I reached this point where I had two feelings in terms of the story. One, it's like there's some regret for not maybe paying a little more attention to this in the past. But the second feeling is, "Wow, this many people are really interested in the story content!" It's a mixed bag of feelings.

 

[Alienfan]

People criticised it at first, but Killer Instinct ended up having one of the best and fairest business models I've seen. I had hoped more companies would incorporate something similar - it especially seems like it would be a perfect fit for Street fighter. $60 is just too steap for the content available

 

[Nanashrew]

How I see tutorial is a type of class to teach you about the game.

Tutorial: Class work, being taught how things work teaching you important aspects

Practice: Lab work, a time to experiment and using what you're taught. Even learning to develop your own style

Youtube videos/blogs: Homework, learning additional and supplemental information to improve your work.

That's how it should work at least. You should have a solid foundation and given enough information about the game and what things do. Not everyone knows everything, especially new players.

 

[Teeth]

No offense, but no it doesnt. It "incentivises" you to Google it, which is clearly what the developer expects you to do in this case. I also dont buy your argument that ignorance incentivises community, especially ignorance of something as basic as move properties. Emergent gameplay would take care of that so adding a further pointless layer of ofbustication serves no purpose, theres also the fact the the longest lived gaming communities historically are for games with perfect information where the entire meat of the discourse and community was due to emergent play, tactics and strategy.

It does incentivize you to Google it -> but the information you'll get will be from community or promotional materials.

This really seems like a matter of where someone draws the line between what should be told to the player and what shouldn't. One person's augmented move is another player's combo is another player's hitbox and frame data. I mean, they could include all of that as well, but some developers feel like it hurts player discovery. Obfuscation is very much a tool of a developer and is used in a ton of games to positive results.

Also, unless you're going to say something like Chess or Go...which games are you referring to that include perfect information in game?

 

[KTO]

The game doesn't even tell me basic shit like what my V-Trigger does. It would be like if the developers of LoL completely cut off that bottom bar of the picture that tells you what the characters special ability does. Fortunately they were smart enough to put that shit there so the player doesn't have to waste their time figuring out basic shit with trial and error.

Loving SFV and happy to be in on the ground floor, but I will admit that after playing SFIV for YEARS I still don't have a clue what Juri's Feng Shui Engine actually does.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

once the online is working properly (is it, now?), this will all blow over.



lol.

Should have released as ftp with all content coming as paid dlc. 60 bucks for bare bones gets you bone fucked.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

People criticised it at first, but Killer Instinct ended up having one of the best and fairest business models I've seen. I had hoped more companies would incorporate something similar - it especially seems like it would be a perfect fit for Street fighter. $60 is just too steap for the content available

This fellow gets it. Capcom managers really soiled things up.

 

[DR2K]

Where's the arcade mode?

They named it easy survival.

This fellow gets it. Capcom managers really soiled things up.

No they didn't. They released a (phenomenal) base game early, advertised it as such(they even released a trailer highlighting said modes on day 1), with the promise of added content at no extra cost for every month. The was the plan and it never changed.

 

[Poster#1]

What confuse me is they had Super Bowl ad for this game. SUPER BOWL! They must have had some confidence in this game.

 

[SapientWolf]

They always say the same BS with exclusivity deals.

I actually think Capcom is one or two major flops away from leaving the AAA gaming business. They wouldn't have released the game in this state if they weren't hard up for cash this quarter. Their retail presence is really light this year and it shows.

They should have had a tutorial to introduce SF vets to the new SFV mechanics but I don't blame them for not having a VF4: Evo style compendium.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I am really enjoying SF5 despite it missing several basic single player modes and I think the actually fighting engine and game is excellent, but why jump on SF5 with the trend of being incomplete when it seems to be a trend this generation? Battlefront, WWE2K15, Titanfall, Evolve, Rainbow Six(?). Not making excuses for Capcom, but I am guessing one of the reasons they wanted this out sooner rather than later so people could learn the fundamentals and mechanics. Guessing they want customers to treat the game as some sort of investment and they wanted to start garnering money earlier than scheduled? Also, isn't that MGS5 in the OP's avatar coincidentally? Wasn't that game practically incomplete also? Chapter 2 for example, the copy and paste side/main missions, very few bosses, and no online until a later date?

 

[Zomba13]

I am really enjoying SF5 despite it missing several basic single player modes and I think the actually fighting engine and game is excellent, but why jump on SF5 with the trend of being incomplete when it seems to be a trend this generation? Battlefront, WWE2K15, Titanfall, Evolve, Rainbow Six(?). Not making excuses for Capcom, but I am guessing one of the reasons they wanted this out sooner rather than later so people could learn the fundamentals and mechanics. Guessing they want customers to treat the game as some sort of investment and they wanted to start garnering money earlier than scheduled? Also, isn't that MGS5 in the OP's avatar coincidentally? Wasn't that game practically incomplete also? Chapter 2 for example, the copy and paste side/main missions, very few bosses, and no online until a later date?

Each of those games (maybe not so much WWE) have had many a thread on how half arsed they felt. SFV is just the latest in a long and growing line.

 

[Valkerionseven]

It would be nice to know what the V-skills do since for half the cast its not obvious at all. I don't think that's unreasonable.

This. As much as I like games that let the player make their attacks over preset ones with no real explanation... Why there are no details for the V-triggers is really weird and an obvious mistake. I can only guess as to what most of them do, others I have 0 idea. I get that some moves change, but what does Laura`s do? personally no clue.

 

[CountAntonius]

When did dark Souls get thrown in the mix? Dark Souls is Dark Souls. Street Fighter V is a fighting game with an aim to bring in more players. The only reason it was released in this state is cause they felt forced to get it into people's hands asap. All that stuff that's coming should have been in already that's why it's being made available for free when it's done. Whether or not you personally need or care for those things is besides the point. It's an unfinished game being sold for full price and people not only have the right to complain they should because it's simply a bad way to launch such a beloved title.

 

[Gunslinger]

IMO training mode in fighting game really don't matter even if they teach you all the nitty gritty you will still crumble in front of an experienced player. Cause he/she has more fundamental knowledge, know how to play under pressure, knows spacing etc. Fighting game is a 1 on 1 thing. If you lost then you lost because of you. Just gotta keep playing to get better. You can go through even the most detailed training and will not have* a 50% win ratio without experience. If you are not willing to put in the time and learn they this genre is not for you. It's a very competitive genre and if you can't handle the pressure of losing and learn from your mistake then seek another genre. I am not trying to be harsh but it's the truth sorry.It's a battle of wit and reaction. Out thinking your opponent under pressure and quickly. And that comes with time. So if you want to get good in one day sorry but that's not gonna happen and you are wasting your time.

 

[Toxi]

Street Fighter V is totally like Dark Souls. I remember on day 1 how Dark Souls was a incomplete barebones game with no content past the Undead Asylum.

Spoiler

Man, I miss the days when "supporting a game after release" actually started with a finished game.

 

[Mik317]

again I agree that the tutorial should have went over the V systems a lot more than "here's how you do it...okay bye" (hell V Reversal is never even explained to you). Maybe even explain at the very least what Ryu's does. However beyond that, it is impossible to teach player beyond that. For one each character is different and even within in that have different methods are having some success, meaning there isn't one way to play a character as most of the time the intended way is forgone for some crazier shit. That discovery is apart of the genre. That is what makes a game have depth.

I want to word this in the least douchy way possible but I feel like many don't get what makes a great fighting game breathe and grow. Again the tutorial could have been better but beyond a more indepth look into the BASE tools...ehhhhhhh

 

[Tingle]

IMO training mode in fighting game really don't matter even if they teach you all the nitty gritty you will still crumble in front of an experienced player. Cause he/she has more fundamental knowledge, know how to play under pressure, knows spacing etc. Fighting game is a 1 on 1 thing. If you lost then you lost because of you. Just gotta keep playing to get better. You can go through even the most detailed training and have a 50% win ratio without experience. If you are not willing to put in the time and learn they this genre is not for you. It's a very competitive genre and if you can't handle the pressure of losing and learn from your mistake then seek another genre. I am not trying to be harsh but it's the truth sorry.It's a battle of wit and reaction. Out thinking your opponent under pressure and quickly. And that comes with time. So if you want to get good in one day sorry but that's not gonna happen and you are wasting your time.

Nobody is asking for a tutorial that teaches every single mechanic and sends players immediately to the top of Evo. They are asking for a tutorial to help players grasp the basics.

 

[Dark Ninja]

IMO training mode in fighting game really don't matter even if they teach you all the nitty gritty you will still crumble in front of an experienced player. Cause he/she has more fundamental knowledge, know how to play under pressure, knows spacing etc. Fighting game is a 1 on 1 thing. If you lost then you lost because of you. Just gotta keep playing to get better. You will not go through even the most detailed training and have a 50% win ratio without experience. If you are not willing to put in the time and learn they this genre is not for you. It's a very competitive genre and if you can't handle the pressure of losing and learn from your mistake then seek another genre. I am not trying to be harsh but it's the truth sorry.

Any Tutorial they put in would be outdated in a week or so anyways. The games metagame and techniques will change quickly as the game is explored by the community. The mechanics like footsies and player tendencies are difficult to teach in a tutorial.

The league system they implemented if it works properly may allow new people to get some wins but other than that if you want to play the game online prepare to lose and blame no one but yourself this isn't a team game.

 

[LincolnTunnel]

again I agree that the tutorial should have went over the V systems a lot more than "here's how you do it...okay bye" (hell V Reversal is never even explained to you). Maybe even explain at the very least what Ryu's does. However beyond that, it is impossible to teach player beyond that. For one each character is different and even within in that have different methods are having some success, meaning there isn't one way to play a character as most of the time the intended way is forgone for some crazier shit. That discovery is apart of the genre. That is what makes a game have depth.

I want to word this in the least douchy way possible but I feel like many don't get what makes a great fighting game breathe and grow. Again the tutorial could have been better but beyond a more indepth look into the BASE tools...ehhhhhhh

They've actually said that the Challenge mode update in March will include Character specific tutorials. Hopefully they help people with these things.