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So, GAF, what do you think about homeschooling?
- Thread starter ScOULaris
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krypt0nian
Banned
Hilbert said:
That you don't know this already speaks volumes.
Daily interaction with a variety of people from a variety of backgrounds throughout the years. The benefit of trained teachers and learning experiences besides your own parents. Social experiences that are uncontrolled and force you to rely on yourself. The group learning experience (group assignments, discussion, projects). Teachers who brings parts of themselves to the classroom.
I honestly feel horrible for homeschooled kids. I have a few in my extended family that are resentful of the experience and I speak out against it whenever I can.
If your parents want to shape your education, they can do so in addition to real education.
tycoonheart
Member
Hilbert said:
1. For me personally, when I was younger, I had a huge fear of public speaking. I wouldn't say high school completely curbed that fear (I think college kinda did that), but being forced to do speeches and presentations in front of 20+ people definitely helped me in that area a little. This is completely different than doing a speech in front of your parents and sibilings.
2. Sports, really any form of extracurricular activity.
3. Being a part of something - prom, homecoming, going to football/basketball/lacrosse games with friends.
4. The ability to make a new friend everyday. The highschool I went to was pretty big, and you wouldn't always know everyone in your classes. Sometimes you get split into groups and you find yourself making new friends.
5. Girls? Shit man, the amount of tail I chased in high school... fun times. :-D
.OuterWorldVoice said:
I knew a couple guys who were homeschooled for years and they were both very smart but still social. One ended up deciding he wanted to go to high school for the social interaction. I think they were rare cases.
I know another guy who was homeschooled and was extremely smart, but was a cocky asshole and still is to this day, I suspect. And there are few things that unnerve me as much as the kinds of ignorant parents who hold their children out of school to feed them religious doctrine for years in place of a genuine education. That's why Jesus Camp is like, the scariest movie ever made.
tycoonheart
Member
Genesis Knight said:
If you're basing academics or education by standardized testing, then sure I'll buy that. But IMO, schools provide the ability to LEARN more. See the example I gave in the post you quoted.
krypt0nian said:
Dude, I don't need your pity. I had a great childhood, and I currently have a great life. I went to and excelled at college at a young age. Public school also encourages group think, beats down individuals, and teaches to a standardized test, not encouraging critical thinking.
And you know, a lot of my homeschooled peers had experiences similar to mine.
I don't know if I could disagree more.tycoonheart said:
krypt0nian
Banned
Hilbert said:
I don't pity you specifically. You fall into a group I feel really badly for.
Your criticisms of public school are definitely valid, generally speaking. What I don't agree with, however, is the desire to completely take a child's education into your own hands. There's no reason why you can't help your kid learn in a personalized way outside of school, rather than replacing that learning environment completely. Let your kid have the best of both worlds.Hilbert said:
One thing we should be careful of is jumping to conclusions, however. Just because some kids we knew who were homeschool were or weren't socially awkward doesn't necessarily mean that it was caused by homeschooling. They might have been that way regardless.
tycoonheart
Member
Hilbert said:
Unless your parents somehow had a vast knowledge of every subject they taught you, there is no way in hell they could've known as much as a teacher would who has a degree in that particular subject. Your parents' ability to teach you about something probably didn't extend beyond what was in the textbook they used. Most of my high school teachers I had were genuinely interested in their respective subjects and went beyond what was only available within the textbooks.
krypt0nian
Banned
Tenks said:
Yikes.
Slappers Only
Junior Member
I can't tell if homeschoolers have a harder time interfacing with "normals", or if "normals" don't know how to deal with homeschoolers.
TheBanditKing
Member
Really there is no definitive answer for this, being a parent is really hard and with society and other outside influences its not getting any easier. The usual pro's and cons are the same, your child can get more focus with a one on one home environment and could likely end up smarter for it. The kicker there is that they will likely be more book smart then street smart and I am sure everyone here will agree that having both is essential. The other drawbacks are the child could end up being heavily underdeveloped socially and may not have an easy time adjusting to a peer driven social environment like college. Your child may also at some point resent you because of this, most kids 8 though 18 just want to blend in and feel normal, depriving them of this daily social interaction could backfire. At the same time what goes on in these schools is quite disturbing at times, children (even young ones) seem very vicious towards each other, which getting beat up or bullied is definitely an experience most could do without.
Genesis Knight
Member
@Tycoonheart:
These are the sort of experiences that people believe homeschoolers are automatically excluded from but that doesn't have to be the case. I took public speaking classes in high school that were taught by members of the local Toastmasters club. I know in my local area the homeschool speech and debate chapter was really big. I played on city travelling and YMCA 'for-fun' soccer leagues growing up. I volunteered and worked a bunch of different jobs all through high school - teaching soccer for the city parks system, working retail, some youth camp type stuff. Met a ton of people through that. Went to a large church and was fairly active growing up so that was another place to meet people.
Also, I dated through high school and actually got married last June.
It looks like I might be attacked for being arrogant, but I'm not trying to be that. I just can't really defend the validity of the homeschool lifestyle without some personal examples.
Edit: Also regarding academics, if we're not going to talk about empirical numbers that we can compare, I guess there isn't really a debate. If you say you got an extra non-quantifiable something out of the public school teaching experience, then good for you.
These are the sort of experiences that people believe homeschoolers are automatically excluded from but that doesn't have to be the case. I took public speaking classes in high school that were taught by members of the local Toastmasters club. I know in my local area the homeschool speech and debate chapter was really big. I played on city travelling and YMCA 'for-fun' soccer leagues growing up. I volunteered and worked a bunch of different jobs all through high school - teaching soccer for the city parks system, working retail, some youth camp type stuff. Met a ton of people through that. Went to a large church and was fairly active growing up so that was another place to meet people.
Also, I dated through high school and actually got married last June.
It looks like I might be attacked for being arrogant, but I'm not trying to be that. I just can't really defend the validity of the homeschool lifestyle without some personal examples.
Edit: Also regarding academics, if we're not going to talk about empirical numbers that we can compare, I guess there isn't really a debate. If you say you got an extra non-quantifiable something out of the public school teaching experience, then good for you.
Dude Abides
Banned
Hilbert said:
I suppose it's because they're opting out of all the annoying bits of public school while taking advantage of the parts they like. Also, because you're supposed to be representing the school.
I'll reiterate that it's only mildly annoying, not rage inducing.
Genesis Knight
Member
I didn't get or need a GED. I think it may not be required in some states?
One issue I'd like to raise (and it is evidenced in part by this thread) is how there is sort of a form of discrimination against homeschoolers out there. I guess it's borne out of culture's assumptions and bad experiences, but damn it got tiring in highschool dealing with the same raised eyebrows every time someone found out that I didn't go to public or private school. I felt like I had to prove myself to everyone ho wrote me off without even trying to know me - prove I wasn't a grubby outcast, prove I wasn't an idiot or a religious wacko.
I don't really offer the information to anyone in real life although I don't deny it either. Thankfully in college it's mostly a non-issue. But it's the number one reason I would think twice about homeschooling my kids.
One issue I'd like to raise (and it is evidenced in part by this thread) is how there is sort of a form of discrimination against homeschoolers out there. I guess it's borne out of culture's assumptions and bad experiences, but damn it got tiring in highschool dealing with the same raised eyebrows every time someone found out that I didn't go to public or private school. I felt like I had to prove myself to everyone ho wrote me off without even trying to know me - prove I wasn't a grubby outcast, prove I wasn't an idiot or a religious wacko.
I don't really offer the information to anyone in real life although I don't deny it either. Thankfully in college it's mostly a non-issue. But it's the number one reason I would think twice about homeschooling my kids.
levious said:
My parents were pretty independent. Like I mentioned in my first post, we had yearly tests to make sure we were up to Oregon's education standards, and that was it. To be honest the idea of a "Homeschooling program" sounds kind of strange to me, and why we didn't opt for that would have to be a question for my mother. I have never felt held back by my GED, college education was always my goal, and is what I am proud of.
What I left out of my homeschooling story is the fact that my older sister and I both went to elementary school. My sister went until 3rd grade, and I went to first grade. My mother was appalled and upset at the school and yanked us out, to home school us. There was a deliberate comparison on my parents part and they decided they preferred homeschooling.
Hari Seldon
Member
Genesis Knight said:
I had the exact opposite experience growing up. I was bussed in to terrible 90s inner city schools. When we eventually had money and moved out to the suburbs and a decent school district for high school I was a complete social outcast because I acted like a fucking gangster because that is all I knew growing up.
tycoonheart
Member
Genesis Knight said:
And thats fine and all but you yourself have admitted that your situation probably wasn't the norm.
Hilbert said:
Oh don't think I'm looking down on a GED, just curious how that worked out. And not that I feel like you missed out on doing an independent program, some accredited ones I've seen sucked as far as the books required/offered.
Homeschooled kids I knew were all socially retarded; this always made sense to me, honestly. How are you supposed to become well rounded when you're hanging out with the same parent every day?
You're missing out on an awful lot of diversity at a very young age, and I personally think homeschooling sucks for that reason. There's an awful lot of valuable life experience that is picked up from the childs' peers and their teachers.
Also: the earlier, the better. My kids both entered school way earlier than I did, and as a result they are social geniuses compared to where I was at their age. They have far more friends than I did, and as a result are engaged in more activities. Soccer, chess club, science club, baseball, all KINDS of shit.
I grew up a nerd with a pretty narrow focus. I didn't need lots of friends, or so I thought. But looking at the opportunities and such that open up for my kids with their huge variety of friends, you can't put a price on that. Nobody ever became truly successful in life solely due to academics, and I think a lot of parents forget that. Home schooling sucks.
You're missing out on an awful lot of diversity at a very young age, and I personally think homeschooling sucks for that reason. There's an awful lot of valuable life experience that is picked up from the childs' peers and their teachers.
Also: the earlier, the better. My kids both entered school way earlier than I did, and as a result they are social geniuses compared to where I was at their age. They have far more friends than I did, and as a result are engaged in more activities. Soccer, chess club, science club, baseball, all KINDS of shit.
I grew up a nerd with a pretty narrow focus. I didn't need lots of friends, or so I thought. But looking at the opportunities and such that open up for my kids with their huge variety of friends, you can't put a price on that. Nobody ever became truly successful in life solely due to academics, and I think a lot of parents forget that. Home schooling sucks.
TheBanditKing
Member
Hilbert said:
As you well know, unfortunately it is. I don't think home schooling is a choice based on religion or economics, rather its fears or past experiences the parents don't want their children to have, that usually play the deciding factor (though I am not speaking for you personally). What I don't think is debatable is that children as a whole are loosing their innocence, I find there are far to many young kids that are regularly exposed to violence or adult situations that they are just not capable of handling, and as a result you have 10yr olds sexting each other. Its a shame but anymore I find that most of the worst traits of society are easily visible by seeing how our children interact with each other.
Genesis Knight
Member
tycoonheart said:
Right, because I'm arguing that the concept of home schooling is a sound one and can lead to just as balanced a lifestyle as anything else if executed correctly, not that all home schoolers are well-educated/developed people.
I just want people to keep an open mind and judge others on an individual basis instead of making generalizations. Surely we can all agree on that.
tycoonheart said:
That's pretty much how I feel. Hell one of the best learning experiences from Collage was getting away from home and learning how to get a long with other people in the prison..opps...I mean dorm room.
I don't remember classes, but I remember the times I spent with other people. Whatever you do, you have to get out of the home and interact with society.
edit: don't know anyone who has ever been home schooled.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
the only person i know who was home schooled is my girl, who is not only well-adjusted, but altogether brilliant and completely wrecks me in most topics. she's well-liked and altogether fantastic. maybe she's anomalous and there's a big problem with home schooling--in the abstract i can certainly understand some of the concerns being expressed here--but as far as i'm concerned, the proof is in the pudding. in these circumstances at least it yielded someone who can mop the floor intellectually with almost everyone else i know, and who can charm the pants off you. so i can only issue a shrug, i suppose, and present that for consideration.
We can agree on that. The proportion of homeschooled kids that grow up to be idiotic adults is probably the same (or less, due to the smaller population) than that of public-schooled kids.Genesis Knight said:
If there's one generalization that we can make unreservedly, it's that the average person is relatively stupid. This truthful blanket statement holds true across all cultures, backgrounds, and educational approaches.
Genesis Knight
Member
ScOULaris said:
LOL, /thread?
I wouldn't say there's a big problem with it, only that there's a big potential for a problem, maybe due to less oversight? If the parents are into it, and willing to do all they can, I'd say it usually goes great, otherwise not.
jamesinclair
Banned
Heres the problem...
The parents are usually religious, so they're the type that won't teach evolution, sex ed, and the realities of american history.
So kid grows up with a whitewashed world, and when it comes to voting time, joins the tea party.
Of course his kid gets home schooled as well, and the cycle continues.
In school, you have many teachers, so you get a range of opinions and ideas. Usually, classes hold debates and such. AT home? It's what mommy says and ONLY what mommy says.
The parents are usually religious, so they're the type that won't teach evolution, sex ed, and the realities of american history.
So kid grows up with a whitewashed world, and when it comes to voting time, joins the tea party.
Of course his kid gets home schooled as well, and the cycle continues.
In school, you have many teachers, so you get a range of opinions and ideas. Usually, classes hold debates and such. AT home? It's what mommy says and ONLY what mommy says.
tycoonheart
Member
Genesis Knight said:
It sounds like the concept is a sound one IF your parents are willing to go the extra mile to ensure that their kids go through everything they would in a school. Will you agree with that?
Genesis Knight
Member
tycoonheart said:
Well, hopefully minus all the shit and bad influences that come hand in hand with the typical public institution. Obviously not speaking from personal experience.
tycoonheart said:
For all the defending I am doing of homeschooling, I am personally unsure if I will homeschool my kids or not. I think with a healthy family life, and involved parents either situation can lead to success.
I do think this "social" stuff is blown a little out of proportion though.
I remember a statistic that flashed across the screen in Jesus Camp that said 75% of homeschooled children in whatever state the movie took place were Evangelical Christians. I can't testify for the validity of that statistic, but it does seem that in most areas of the country religion is a prime motivator for homeschooling.jmdajr said:
levious said:
When I was 17, I walked into the cafeteria of our school and could not find a seat.
I went to the back of the room and picked up a chair, determined to create my own place to sit. As I was carrying it back to where I intended to eat my lunch, one of its legs brushed against the back of this guy who had already sat down to eat.
He got up and choked me, and due to his size, none of the "friends" at my table did a thing.
I told him to take his hands off my neck, and eventually he stopped on his own.
As I was walking down the hallway from the cafeteria, he jumped me from behind and threw me on the ground. Stood over me for around a minute, insisting that I had called him the "N" word.
He got a stern warning I believe.
Now, tell me what I learned from that.
I've got more such stories if you like.
Genesis Knight
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
I'm not sure if I've seen stats. To Google! In the meantime, my parents did it because larger classrooms have to teach to the slowest student (one way or another), and they thought that homeschooling would be a good way to have the freedom to go as fast or as slow as we needed.
@Speevy: You learned that next time you need to just sit the fuck down on the floor like an normal person.
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