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So how come the Kamen Rider/Masked Rider series couldn't penetrate US shores?

Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
titular_riders____by_nobuharuudou-d75r94r.jpg


(sorry, couldn't find a good pic that goes up to Ex-Aid)

This has been making me wonder - how come Kamen Rider is the only big tokusatsu in Japan that hasn't reached the US shores successfully? Super Sentai has its Power Rangers to gain foothold, Ultraman has actually been seen by American audiences even as early as the 80's and now is available via Crunchyroll (I'm not sure of Xeed is gonna be in CR too though), and Godzilla's, well, Godzilla.

So how come Kamen Rider is left out of the fun? It's not like there's no market to penetrate - a slightly darker tone for superheroics is all the rage lately, and even the most colorful series in the show has really dark, if not depressing, elements in them.

I get that the first two attempts failed but for different reasons. First was Saban's Masked Rider trying to cash in on the Power Rangers craze at the moment, and it was so 90's as fuck and so terrible that it's best be forgotten. The second was Kamen Rider Dragon Knight and I thought it was actually passable. The problem was that 4Kids back then was actively trying to screw the show for some unknown reason.

Surely third time's the charm? Maybe give it to a competent channel or director? Though I guess a big problem is that Kamen Rider, as a merchandising franchise, is reliant on play-pretend toys (meaning that the merch are all equipment - the belt, weapons) as well as collectibles, unlike say Super Sentai/Power Rangers which can live off as action figures in the US.

I say US because Kamen Rider is actually being imported in Korea. And from what I gather other Asian territories have them. Sadly they stopped doing that in my country and it abruptly ended in Kamen Rider OOO.

It does make me wonder though. There's this web-series/Amazon Prime exclusive Kamen Rider production called Kamen Rider Amazons, and right now it's having its Season 2 run. They said that they would be bringing it over internationally, but there's been no news. Maybe they'll do it after Season 2 is finished?

Anyway gonna end the post with my favorite Rider Kick (can't find a good quality, so this will have to do!), but make sure to play this song while looking at it!

xsymcz.gif
 
L

Layell

Member
The outfits just aren't cool to a western standard and the power rangers exist which I'd say is more marketable with toys.

Maybe insect outfits just aren't appealing to audiences outside Japan too.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I dunno, I thought plenty of the outfits are cool.

Hell, I'd be willing for a Wizard adaptation if it meant getting a better story!
 
Rest

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Because when they tried it the American version spawned Furby, that's why.
 
P

Princess Viola

Member
Honestly I feel that the failure of Saban's Masked Rider and Dragon Knight in North America have led Toei to basically decide that Rider will be a non-starter in the US for the forseeable future.

Likely talking out of my ass but still.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
Americans don't like beetles even if beetles are secretly awesome

plus Power Rangers didn't even use motorcycles that much
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Most of the modern costumes are fine, I think. Weren't the adaptations crap?

Plus Sentai was always more openly goofy, which makes it easier to target kids. I think it's been harder to get that crossover appeal in North America until relatively recently. For adults you have to break through the men in rubber suits barrier, which might be easier now with superhero shows for adults existing, but then you'd have to target adults.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
insects haven't been a thing in rider for years though, like the last one was in 2010 (Kamen Rider W, which is based on grasshopper)

Princess Viola said:
Honestly I feel that the failure of Saban's Masked Rider and Dragon Knight in North America have led Toei to basically decide that Rider will be a non-starter in the US for the forseeable future.

Likely talking out of my ass but still.
Click to expand...

didn't DK won an award? granted it was for stunts... and your competition were daytime soaps

with that said that was more of 4kids screwing than DK being bad

L Thammy said:
Most of the modern costumes are fine, I think. Weren't the adaptations crap?

Plus Sentai was always more openly goofy, which makes it easier to target kids. For adults you have to break through the men in rubber suits barrier, which might be easier now with superhero shows for adults existing, but then you'd have to target adults.
Click to expand...

Godzilla tho
 
H

HeatBoost

Member
Power Rangers succeeding was just... an immense fluke, and really speaks to the appeal of Super Sentai style action/gimmicks and the Zyuranger designs, in particular, than anything else.

The fact that they keep going back to Mighty Morphin is indicative of this. There were another 19 versions of Power Rangers, some of which were better by any reasonable standard, but the novelty of the first entry is all people seem to remember/care about so it remains the lynchpin to the greater western fanbase.

Plus, Kamen Rider (in Japan... before Den-O) defines as a counterpart by being a bit darker than Sentai, which is something that tends to not fly with kids entertainment in America. There's a reason they changed Dragon Knight's ending.

But maybe most importantly, not every Rider series has multiple hero characters, which means fewer toys to sell, which makes it less appealing to the people signing the checks
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
L Thammy said:
What are you arguing here?
Click to expand...
Godzilla has some nice adult audience yet are mostly rubber suits.

In any case KR isn't really just for adults, more like kids but slightly older than the PR audience.

HeatBoost said:
Power Rangers succeeding was just... an immense fluke, and really speaks to the appeal of Super Sentai style action/gimmicks and the Zyuranger designs, in particular, than anything else.

The fact that they keep going back to Mighty Morphin is indicative of this. There were another 19 versions of Power Rangers, some of which were better by any reasonable standard, but the novelty of the first entry is all people seem to remember/care about so it remains the lynchpin to the greater western fanbase.

Plus, Kamen Rider (in Japan... before Den-O) defines as a counterpark by being a bit darker than Sentai, which is something that tends to not fly with kids entertainment in America. There's a reason they changed Dragon Knight's ending.

But maybe most importantly, not every Rider series has multiple hero characters, which means fewer toys to sell, which makes it less appealing to the people signing the checks
Click to expand...

Couldn't they make figures on the heroes and villains of riders, since they're detailed enough to work?
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Masked rider came on when kamen rider was coming to an end in japan so even if they wanted to continue after masked rider, they couldn't. The same with both beetleborgs and VR troopers. And with dragon knight, it was pretty mishandled on a network that was getting out of youth programming
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Nairume said:
Earlier than that, actually. My father saw it when he was a child, meaning it was definitely airing in the 70's, likely even as early as the late late '60s.
Click to expand...

Huh, I always thought it got started with the animated movies but I guess it was even older!

daviyoung said:
Because look at it
Click to expand...

I know right? Most blows the sentai suits!

I like Donut Sentai Wizardranger

kamen_rider_wizard__it__s_showtime__by_ooo19415-d5e4kda.png
 
S

studyguy

Member
R

rmt92

Member
I'm actually pretty sure I remember watching an american tv show with the one on the top, 2nd over... can't remember the name of it at all. I think taco bell might have even had toys for it at one point...

Also beetle borgs was awesome.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Ant-Man's helmet is basically a Kamen Rider helmet, so I doubt the costumes are the reason.

The last 2 attempts flopped and Power Rangers is far less popular than it was in the 90s, so there's little to suggest there's a large enough audience to justify the expensive Power Rangers-style localization.

Also, some of the seasons, especially the early Heisei seasons, have some pretty dark and violent subject matter. You'd have to change them a lot for US kid standards.

I do think there is a possible audience in the US for official subs though. Kamen Rider isn't that obscure.
 
N

Nairume

Banned
HeatBoost said:
Power Rangers succeeding was just... an immense fluke, and really speaks to the appeal of Super Sentai style action/gimmicks and the Zyuranger designs, in particular, than anything else.

The fact that they keep going back to Mighty Morphin is indicative of this. There were another 19 versions of Power Rangers, some of which were better by any reasonable standard, but the novelty of the first entry is all people seem to remember/care about so it remains the lynchpin to the greater western fanbase.
Click to expand...
The important context to remember with MMPR having a larger cultural footprint than the other versions of PR likely also ties into how MMPR was "first" and with just how long they kept the Zyuranger stuff around compared to later seasons. It's always going to be easier for people to remember the Power Rangers series that stuck around for 3 50+ episode seasons that ran daily versus the ones that had single seasons of ~30ish episodes that ran weekly.

I don't think PR being a success was a fluke. Saban was always right in trying to get it done as early as Bioman (and even Stan Lee tried to get Super Sentai in the US to happen before then). Beetleborgs actually being somewhat successful and only getting done in by running out of footage shows that there was definitely something there.

Kamen Rider just got fucked by a bad adaptations, and it's only going to get harder for it to get a foothold now that the big name superhero series are getting live action adaptations here.
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Toxi said:
The last 2 attempts flopped and Power Rangers is far less popular than it was in the 90s, so there's little to suggest there's a large enough audience to justify the expensive Power Rangers-style localization.

Also, some of the seasons, especially the early Heisei seasons, have some pretty dark and violent subject matter. You'd have to change them a lot for US kid standards.

I do think there is a possible audience in the US for official subs though. Kamen Rider isn't that obscure.
Click to expand...

with an adaptation, you would hope they wouldnt go for a direct route. and its like not like we havent had a darker rangers series in the past, so theres no real issue there either.
 
B

bobbychalkers

Member
Just sub the damn show and put it on a streaming platform. I've tried a few times to get into the series but finding it in english was surprisingly hard.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Toxi said:
Ant-Man's helmet is basically a Kamen Rider helmet, so I doubt the costumes are the reason.

The last 2 attempts flopped and Power Rangers is far less popular than it was in the 90s, so there's little to suggest there's a large enough audience to justify the expensive Power Rangers-style localization.

Also, some of the seasons, especially the early Heisei seasons, have some pretty dark and violent subject matter. You'd have to change them a lot for US kid standards.

I do think there is a possible audience in the US for official subs though. Kamen Rider isn't that obscure.
Click to expand...
bobbychalkers said:
Just sub the damn show and put it on a streaming platform. I've tried a few times to get into the series but finding it in english was surprisingly hard.
Click to expand...

I do wonder they haven't gone towards Crunchyroll. Tsubaraya already is doing the international audience a service with various Ultraman shows in CR.

It makes me wonder if their international release for Amazons being locked in Amazon-Prime would be a good idea.

Nairume said:
The funny thing is that Ultraman's original outing in the US was a straight localization that just dubbed over the original Japanese actors and left it at that.
Click to expand...

It helps that back then people were accepting on dubbed over shows.
 
N

Nairume

Banned
Boss Doggie said:
It helps that back then people were accepting on dubbed over shows.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, though I don't think the idea to just keep the battle scenes/villain and try to string together a somewhat new show with western actors was necessarily a bad idea.

Masked Rider was just an aggressively bad way of doing it.
 
M

Mik2121

Member
The suits probably look too cheap? Not that the old Spiderman suits didn't, but the designs are a bit better imo. The Kamen Rider suits are just cheap-looking costumes that you could get anywhere.
 
B

Bob Coffee

Member
very few riders would make good western adaptations. my vote would be a us rendition of Kuuga or a gritty adaptation of the original kamen rider tbh, since kuuga is a buddy cop procedural that just happens to include a dude who can transform into a bug themed superhero. kamen rider with some tweaking would fit in well with other us toku shows like say arrow or flash, only it would be a bit more dirty and gritty looking. other than that, as far as toku goes garo with some work could work damn well on say HBO with a budget, and they can even still have boobies!
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
I think part of the problem is that most people in the US associate suited tokusatsu with Power Rangers, and would write off any thing in the same ballpark as a PR "ripoff" despite Sentai being younger than Rider in reality. It also doesn't help that one out of the two KR adaptions that exists was awful in incomprehensible ways.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Bob Coffee said:
very few riders would make good western adaptations. my vote would be a us rendition of Kuuga tbh, since kuuga is a buddy cop procedural that just happens to include a dude who can transform into a bug themed superhero. other than that, as far as toku goes garo with some work could work damn well on say HBO with a budget, and they can even still have boobies!
Click to expand...

Or Agito so that the cop becomes a Rider too! And they can just alter the "god" motif with say, just strictly evolution
 
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