Diddy Kong
Banned
dat Nintendo polish
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So how does Splatoon keep its 60fps?
- Thread starter foxuzamaki
- Start date
GameGuru59
Banned
These levels are also smaller than Sunshine's, with less stuff going on. I think it could've run it. Certainly on the Wii.
It comes from multiple interviews (Zelda OoT originating as Mario 64 code is from Miyamoto that I can't find). Argonaut's developers claim in multiple interviews that they developed alot of the original 3D for Nintendo in Starfox 2. If you play Starfox 2, and observe the way it rotates, you'll see that its extremely similar to how it rotates in Mario 64.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
It's one of the least visually demanding fps among the current crop.
Indeed, mostly because it's not an fps.
They're just better at finding a balance of what they want to do with the resources available to them and then come up with a clean simple art style that makes it look great.
I think it's generally the older devs you'll see doing this whereas a lot of newer devs will just start adding as much as they can before trying to optimise things later because they don't really have that experience of making the most of limited hardware, they're used to having more power than they actually need to realise their ideas, which generally ends up with them having to consolidate a few things like making it 30fps, get rid of the AI or level complexity they might have started out with as opposed to downgrading the graphics because by this point they've probably already released engine bullshots and they don't want to show something that superficially looks like an inferior product.
I think it's generally the older devs you'll see doing this whereas a lot of newer devs will just start adding as much as they can before trying to optimise things later because they don't really have that experience of making the most of limited hardware, they're used to having more power than they actually need to realise their ideas, which generally ends up with them having to consolidate a few things like making it 30fps, get rid of the AI or level complexity they might have started out with as opposed to downgrading the graphics because by this point they've probably already released engine bullshots and they don't want to show something that superficially looks like an inferior product.
That use their magic for good instead of evil. This is an important point.
No part of that post is reasonable. At least for Mario Kart, the devs specifically say that they redo everything from scratch, including models, even if the models are pretty much the same. Nintendo is just really good at optimization
After rewatching the Digital event a third time I noticed Splatoon has sniper rifles.
It is an FPS.
Nifty. Thanks.
I've played 3D World to completion and the shadows are most certainly not accurate representations of the characters. It might not be just ellipse, but look at these examples:
In the 2nd pic, the complexity of the fingers isn't being reflecting in the shadow, and the tails have no shadow whatsoever. You can also see that Toad's arms are clearly extending out from under his head, but the shadow is still just a circle.
For Splatoon, I might have been mistaken and upon closer inspection they might not be using the same trick (it's definitely not being used for the large weapons), but it's definitely a thing in 3D world. Sorry for the slight derail.
Actually, I was trying to say that yes, it's impressive now, but it was even more impressive tech back then
And it'd also meant that they would have refined algorithms that they could perhaps apply to the situation, which would be a useful headstart; they're not going in blind to this; I suspect the power of the Wii U comes in with the increased *scale* of it all, rather than the code that drives the core premise.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't know about that. The fluid simulations going on have to be fairly intensive. I mean, the splatter effects do actually look simulated, not just canned
Very well chosen technical / artistic / game design tradeoffs, very well implemented.
It's really quite impressive.
It's really quite impressive.
Do you know what the "FP" in "FPS" means?
Projectjustice
Banned
Watch Dogs has sniper rifles. Guess that's an FPS too?
You're still shooting stuff, so yes.
Graphics Horse
Member
I knocked up a little shader as I was curious how these kind of ink effects are done
http://glsl.heroku.com/e#17652.0
mouse x position effects the spread of orange and blue ink, if you move your mouse to the bottom of the screen it shows the low resolution data before the ink filter is applied.
http://glsl.heroku.com/e#17652.0
mouse x position effects the spread of orange and blue ink, if you move your mouse to the bottom of the screen it shows the low resolution data before the ink filter is applied.
Nope the shadows doesn't look at all like 3D world.
In Mario games the shadow is a crucial visual aid for the 3D platforming so all the interactive objects have simple shadows from directly above even though the level itself has proper shadows at a completely different angle.
It doesn't work like that here at all. The shadows are at an angle, much more detailed and with self shadowing, so basically like every other game
Amazing.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
The graphics are very basic. It's also probably sub hd.
Byron Bluth
Banned
Nintendo is the only company pumping out 60fps as their standard for their games. While resolution has jumped between 720p and 1080p I like that they keep FPS as the priority over resolution.
EAD Wizards from the Moon
EAD Wizards from the Moon
Delusibeta
Banned
Probably a combination of Nintendo brand polish and not being particularly graphically demanding.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Would like to remind people that my thread was more about the ink that seemed to be dynamic, not about the geomatry or whatever.
Once you see X, you realize that the Wii U is more powerful than most people give it credit for, and that Splatoon maintaining 60 fps isn't impressive.
It's hardly pushing polys, effects, or lighting.
BananaSprinkles
Banned
Right! It's really about proper planning at this point.
All too often games start with a base design and try to add elements to gameplay to make it unique or interesting.
If you start your base design to incorporate you unique and interesting gameplay from the get go you have a lot easier time to plan and optimize the crucial elements along the way. Nearly anything is possible with the right amount of planning before hand.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I agree
Do you believe 60fps is not achieved because developers don't give a shit?
OldKingDoran
Banned
Ninty will always prioritize gameplay over anything else, so its not too surprising
Amazeballs
Member
The ink blots are solid colour textures with shaders that make them look 3 dimensional. Nintendo have dealt with these kinds of textures in Mario Sunshine. They look great but I can't imagine them being too graphically intensive.
This. So much.
It's kind of sad that almost any technical discussion someone tried to bring up has to devolve into fanboy nonsense and mockery.
The game would look better if the devs targeted 30fps and higher fidelity. They didn't, which in this case was a good decision. The game is visually appealing, but not a technical achievement.
Graphics Horse
Member
I don['t think it is as dynamic as it looks, just low res dynamic textures.
*flood of pictures incoming*
So, lets say when you roll your paint roller across the level, it changes the value of these texels like this, you can think of them as being pretty large, a similar size to the cubes in minecraft. Each shade represents the coverage value of the paint. Because of their size, you never have to alter too many of them at once even with 8 players..
Then when it's drawn on screen it's interpolated per pixel
Then there's a noise texture that's permanently mapped to all the painted surfaces on the level and never changes,you never see it but it looks something like this:
When you subtract the noise texture from the paint coverage, you get this:
And then apply a threshold so anything below 50% is invisible and the rest is full you get this:
Then you can repeat that for multiple paint colours using multiple channels, whichever ink has the highest value before the threshold determines which colour should be shown.
I added a simple highlight to my shader:
http://glsl.heroku.com/e#17652.1
Muppet of a Man
Member
techniquely less demanding graphics with good stylized art to make up for it. Games have been doing this for ages to achieve 60 fps, especially arcade-style games.
JordanN
Banned
I assume you're in favor of removing lighting as well?
eddfromtheriver
Banned
By not being so demanding?, IMHO honestly it doesn't look good when compared with other Nintendo 1st party games on the Wii U.
I don['t think it is as dynamic as it looks, just low res dynamic textures.
*flood of pictures incoming*
So, lets say when you roll your paint roller across the level, it changes the value of these texels like this, you can think of them as being pretty large, a similar size to the cubes in minecraft. Each shade represents the coverage value of the paint.
Then when it's drawn on screen it's interpolated per pixel
Then there's a noise texture that's permanently mapped to all the painted surfaces on the level and never changes,you never see it but it looks something like this:
When you subtract the noise texture from the paint coverage, you get this:
And then apply a threshold so anything below 50% is invisible and the rest is full you get this:
Then you can repeat that for multiple paint colours using multiple channels, whichever ink has the highest value before the threshold determines which colour should be shown.
I added a simple highlight to my shader:
http://glsl.heroku.com/e#17652.1
Correct. The levels already need an unique texture wrapped over all static geometry for lightmaps, they can just reuse the UV coordinates and add a dynamic layer on top of it.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I agree with this post right here.
Michael Armbrust
Member
The Wii U is a powerful system and the game isn't that graphically advanced.
It's cool that Nintendo has it locked at 60fps, but it's not surprising either.
It's cool that Nintendo has it locked at 60fps, but it's not surprising either.
TitusGroan
Banned
After all the continued discussions about framerates, resolution drops, downgrade betrayals and all that, it does seem quite funny when any game with 60fps is now treated as some sort of inexplicable magic talisman. "This game hath 60fps? Surely 'tis some kind of witchcraft! The Wii U be a humble console, and the soothsayers hath foretold that 60fps be the domain of those consoles with the power of next-gen!"
Listen to me, my children. Verily, it is possible for a shooter to be released unto consoles, yea, even unto the modest Wii U, and achieve that holy perfection we know to be the Lord's chosen 60fps. For if we turn back the pages of time, did our forebears not play Metroid Prime and Timesplitters Future Perfect and bask in that fluid perfection? Yea, did our fathers not play Serious Sam, a game with hordes of on-screen enemies and vast open levels, at 60fps on machines with a mere 64mb of memory? Why then should we be surprised when a multiplayer paint shooter arises, and shows itself to also be of the Lord's chosen framerate? Lo! Nintendo has chosen to build a game around the limits and strength of their hardware, and verily they have made a game that runneth at the one true framerate. We should not be surprised, but rejoice that they have committed themselves once again to the virtues of good game design and art direction over framerate-murdering visual trifles and pretties. No matter how pretty the paint may look, we true believers know that Nintendo have prioritised gameplay and fluidity over graphical baubles, and for their sacrifice, they have achieved the sacred beauty of 60fps that so few other developers know.
Rejoice, my children, for the glory days of the one true framerate are returning to us once more. Ask yourselves not how it has happened, merely celebrate it's glorious return.
Listen to me, my children. Verily, it is possible for a shooter to be released unto consoles, yea, even unto the modest Wii U, and achieve that holy perfection we know to be the Lord's chosen 60fps. For if we turn back the pages of time, did our forebears not play Metroid Prime and Timesplitters Future Perfect and bask in that fluid perfection? Yea, did our fathers not play Serious Sam, a game with hordes of on-screen enemies and vast open levels, at 60fps on machines with a mere 64mb of memory? Why then should we be surprised when a multiplayer paint shooter arises, and shows itself to also be of the Lord's chosen framerate? Lo! Nintendo has chosen to build a game around the limits and strength of their hardware, and verily they have made a game that runneth at the one true framerate. We should not be surprised, but rejoice that they have committed themselves once again to the virtues of good game design and art direction over framerate-murdering visual trifles and pretties. No matter how pretty the paint may look, we true believers know that Nintendo have prioritised gameplay and fluidity over graphical baubles, and for their sacrifice, they have achieved the sacred beauty of 60fps that so few other developers know.
Rejoice, my children, for the glory days of the one true framerate are returning to us once more. Ask yourselves not how it has happened, merely celebrate it's glorious return.
I may be slightly tired and/or drunk...
Coffee Dog
Banned
I was typing up a post, but it was basically this.
It's sad how the console industry has been conditioned to the point where a game emphasizing playability over graphical achievements is treated as a rogue agent.
Heres to you my brother!
I'm pretty sure this is intentional so that it makes platforming in a 3D space easier.I've played 3D World to completion and the shadows are most certainly not accurate representations of the characters. It might not be just ellipse, but look at these examples:
In the 2nd pic, the complexity of the fingers isn't being reflecting in the shadow, and the tails have no shadow whatsoever. You can also see that Toad's arms are clearly extending out from under his head, but the shadow is still just a circle.
For Splatoon, I might have been mistaken and upon closer inspection they might not be using the same trick (it's definitely not being used for the large weapons), but it's definitely a thing in 3D world. Sorry for the slight derail.