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[Calm waterfall]

He is not. Deadpool takes place in the X-Men Cinematic Universe but not the MCU.



Not sure why Zemo killing the winter soldiers means anything. He wanted them to crumble from the inside, not just get fought against some soldiers that would most likely lose. In the end he won and the Avengers split.

It means he is a fool that could have had an army of super soldiers under his command and would have been closer to achieve his goals. He did not wanted the avengers to split, he wanted them to kill each other. That did not happen. They will reconcile because they are heroes. Also everything he has done was conveniently allowed by the plot, like pretending to be a shrink. Suddenly everyone were idiots to not check the guy's credentials. A good villain creates his own opportunity like the Joker did to those mob bosses, or where Ras Al Ghul burned Batman's house.

 

[SpaceWolf]

That's just a jaded assumption.

Based on the oddly upbeat and optimistic nature of the ending, I would argue it's a fair criticism.

 

[guek]

It means he is a fool that could have had an army of super soldiers under his command and would have been closer to achieve his goals. He did not wanted the avengers to split, he wanted them to kill each other. That did not happen. They will reconcile because they are heroes. Also everything he has done was conveniently allowed by the plot, like pretending to be a shrink. Suddenly everyone were idiots to not check the guy's credentials. A good villain creates his own opportunity like the Joker did to those mob bosses, or where Ras Al Ghul burned Batman's house.

He didn't want them to kill each other, he wanted to destroy the team >_<

The Avengers are more than just Tony and Steve even if they're they heart of the team. Zemo even refers to The Avengers as his target, not Tony or Steve specifically. His goal was to destroy the Avengers from the inside out and he succeeded.

Based on the oddly upbeat and optimistic nature of the ending, I would argue it's a fair criticism.

Those are two different things though. If you want to criticize the tone of the ending, that's one thing, but saying the Avengers will be split for no more than a moment is an assumption.

 

[Alienous]

Captain America is no more and half of the Avengers are wanted outlaws. Zemo won.

No, if anybody won it would be Crossbones. His actions indirectly led to the accords, and that's why half of the Avengers are outlaws. Their political disagreement would have meant they still would have been outlaws even if they didn't fight over Bucky.

It remains to be seen if Captain America is no more, as he certainly didn't retire at the end of Civil War.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

So anyone else think it's plausible (though not certain) that in Infinity War...

Spoiler

all the villains directly killed by an infinity stone (Red Skull, Malekith, Ronan, Ultron)

will return?

Only if the Time and Soul gems each off a villain. Then I could see it.

Masters of Evil in Infinity War part 1
Thanos in Infinity War part 2.

 

[Bold One]

For a forum that communicates in mostly memes and snark, you lot sure do hate quips.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Zemo won.

My bad, one villain in what... eight films?

 

[The Kree]

My bad, one villain in what... eight films?

Because that's what people pay to see. Good guys losing.

It's like you've never seen an action movie before 2007.

 

[Gleethor]

You'll notice that the top tier ones were given multiple movies/episodes to develop, instead of being killed immediately.

 

[Mighty Chin]

For a forum that communicates in mostly memes and snark, you lot sure do hate quips.

Shhhhhh

 

[SpaceWolf]

Those are two different things though. If you want to criticize the tone of the ending, that's one thing, but saying the Avengers will be split for no more than a moment is an assumption.

It's what the tone implies in regards to the future of Tony and Steve's relationship, a direct result of the hopeful tone of Steve's letter which undoubtedly serves as the thematic crux for the ending of the film.

Steve writing Tony a letter speaking of how he'll always be there for Tony and that he can always count on him at a moments notice, and Tony putting everything aside to read said letter and seeming to take its contents to heart doesn't communicate to me personally any sense that ZEMO WON and that THE AVENGERS ARE FOREVER DIVIDED, only that Tony and Steve's reconciliation is fairly inevitable, if it hasn't happened already.

 

[Mighty Chin]

Till DC manages to put forth a decent villain and performance other than Ledger's Joker Marvel is doing just fine.

Actually I'll just say performance because Joker was a terrible villain only made great because the script made him that way. The script made no effort to explain his actions or his followers loyalty. It's just happens because.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

Have there been any times the villians have won in the marvel films? So many of these flicks are expected to have sequels or trilogies, i feel like i never seen a villian succeed in any of them. Maybe they have an i hvent seen the film. Would be great tho if not.

 

[GeeTeeCee]

Have there been any times the villians have won in the marvel films? So many of these flicks are expected to have sequels or trilogies, i feel like i never seen a villian succeed in any of them. Maybe they have an i hvent seen the film. Would be great tho if not.

I guess you could say Zemo won... until Infinity War when all the Avengers will be friends again.

 

[Alienous]

Till DC manages to put forth a decent villain and performance other than Ledger's Joker Marvel is doing just fine.

Actually I'll just say performance because Joker was a terrible villain only made great because the script made him that way. The script made no effort to explain his actions or his followers loyalty. It's just happens because.

I thought Zod was a good villain.

 

[The Kree]

It's what the tone implies in regards to the future of Tony and Steve's relationship, a direct result of the hopeful tone of Steve's letter which serves as the ending of the film.

Steve writing Tony a letter speaking of how he'll always be there for Tony and that he can always count on him in a momenta notice, and Tony putting everything aside to read said letter and seeming to take its contents to heart doesn't communicate to me personally any sense that ZEMO WON and that THE AVENGERS ARE FOREVER DIVIDED, only that Tony and Steve's reconciliation is fairly inevitable, if it hasn't happened already.

All the ending implies is that Cap isn't gonna huff and puff with his arms crossed if the world needs him because him and Tony had a fight. Him not being an Avenger anymore doesn't mean he's not a hero. He understands that Tony was rightfully angry about the death of his parents at Bucky's hands - he's not gonna completely throw him under the bus for having a genuine human emotion. You can assume that Tony isn't gonna hold a grudge forever because Cap wouldn't let the sole remnant of his past life be executed because of things he did while under HYDRA influence.

The ending is perfectly sensible for both characters. It makes sense that they would reconcile things in the future.

 

[NotLiquid]

Yellowjacket is legit underrated. He's the perfect villain for the movie; a neurotic businessman who only really wanted personal validation from Pym. The way the entire movie treats Pym as a catalyst of things is incredibly graceful.

Also Zemo was easily the best villain Civil War could have had in terms of a "regular guy" getting the Avengers turned against one another.

 

[GeeTeeCee]

Yellowjacket is legit underrated. He's the perfect villain for the movie; a neurotic businessman who only really wanted personal validation from Pym. The way the entire movie treats Pym as a catalyst of things is incredibly graceful.

I thought he was a poor man's Obadiah Stane, personally (who - apart from the fact it was Jeff Bridges - wasn't all that great either).

 

[Alienous]

All the ending implies is that Cap isn't gonna huff and puff with his arms crossed if the world needs him because him and Tony had a fight. Him not being an Avenger anymore doesn't mean he's not a hero. He understands that Tony was rightfully angry about the death of his parents at Bucky's hands - he's not gonna completely throw him under the bus for having a genuine human emotion. You can assume that Tony isn't hold a grudge forever because Cap wouldn't let the sole remnant of his past life be executed because of things he did while under HYDRA influence.

The ending is perfectly sensible for both characters. It makes sense that they would reconcile things in the future.

This is true, and it's a fair depiction of their relationship. I only criticize the notion that the 'Avengers are split' in any way more significant than we've already seen in the MCU. They came to blows in Age of Ultron too.

Nothing about the ending said "Zemo's plan to destroy the Avengers was successful" to me. He just presented them with an obstacle they are already on their way to overcoming (considering that Tony didn't take the opportunity to get Steve arrested at the end of the movie).

 

[Finaika]

I thought Zod was a good villain.

Zod was better than most MCU villains imo.

Plus Faora.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Yeah I mean that ranking is... Fine. I don't think there's much to discuss there. All the top tier" are definitely better due to development.

Hopefully part of whatever the two Avengers movie split is fleshing Thanos out.

 

[Calm waterfall]

I thought Zod was a good villain.

Zod was an amazing villain. I loved his simplicity. He was made a soldier, it is in his DNA, and his job is to protect Krypton, when that failed he wanted to create another Krypton on earth. His threat level was ridiculous. Not once in a Marvel villain I have witnessed the villains as threatening especially when they make jokes. I always saw them a tool, means to an end. The WS was not great villain imo because he did all the things that he did unconsciously, and not by his own will.

 

[The Kree]

This is true, and it's a fair depiction of their relationship. I only criticize the notion that the 'Avengers are split' in any way more significant than we've already seen in the MCU. They came to blows in Age of Ultron too.

Nothing about the ending said "Zemo's plan to destroy the Avengers was successful" to me. He just presented them with an obstacle they are already on their way to overcoming (considering that Tony didn't take the opportunity to get Steve arrested at the end of the movie).

You're overlooking the fact that some characters were already taking a principled stand against the Accords. They were going to be split no matter what. Only difference was before Zemo, worst case scenario, they'd be retired. Here, they end up fugitives, which makes life a hell of a lot more difficult. Some Avengers have freedom and funding and public support, and some don't. That's significant. Tony wasn't going to arrest him because he finally learned that Zemo was the real enemy. He thought they were going to be united against a common threat before Zemo played the tape for them.

 

[andythinkpad]

Where is the "Thor 2 the Dark World" option I can click on?

 

[NotLiquid]

I thought he was a poor man's Obadiah Stane, personally (who - apart from the fact it was Jeff Bridges - wasn't all that great either).

I think Obadiah definitely has a more menacing presence but his motivations are a little more.. shallow I guess I would describe it? My main problem with him is he's literally the generic business man villain. It's somewhat of a safe direction and I didn't care much for the reveal that he was the one who had the terrorists capture Tony to begin with. Iron Man kind of felt like it just ran out of juice a little bit after the first two acts.

 

[Calm waterfall]

He didn't want them to kill each other, he wanted to destroy the team >_<

The Avengers are more than just Tony and Steve even if they're they heart of the team. Zemo even refers to The Avengers as his target, not Tony or Steve specifically. His goal was to destroy the Avengers from the inside out and he succeeded.



Those are two different things though. If you want to criticize the tone of the ending, that's one thing, but saying the Avengers will be split for no more than a moment is an assumption.

It still does not work. Why would he want to split the avengers instead of kill them? What kind of revenge is this? What would them splitting up do? They will still operate. Besides he should know Steve and Tony's personalities and recognize that splitting them up won't last.

 

[Tonedeff]

Never been a big fan of the MCU villains. Most of these motherfuckers are just boring, no charisma. Then you have dudes like Ultron and Loki who have too much, trying too hard. I still think Obadiah is their best so far

 

[Bold One]

Shhhhhh

 

[call_kotaku]

I wonder if it's a coincidence that so many of them die really anti-climatic infinity gem-related deaths, I hope something comes of it. Maybe Thanos summons them from the gauntlet to fight the Avengers or something.

 

[Mighty Chin]

I thought Zod was a good villain.

Yeah great Villain. Super Strong General with loads of experience gets beat handily by a scientist at the start of the movie. He a real threat.

And People shit on Malekith for getting cut by the Asgardian Queen.

 

[vaderise]

Yeah great Villain. Super Strong General with loads of experience gets beat handily by a scientist at the start of the movie. He a real threat.

And People shit on Malekith for getting cut by the Asgardian Queen.

People shit on Malekith because he's boring as hell.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

No OP, you have bad taste in movies. The villains range from complete trash to below medicre. Loki is ok, Kingpin is pretty damn good and the Winter Soldier a top class villain. Everyone else is forgettable, irrelevant trash.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Because that's what people pay to see. Good guys losing.

It's like you've never seen an action movie before 2007.

People kinda like seeing heroes triumph against overwhelming odds. Not "oh look at Thor fuck this jobber up"

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Victor will change all of this!

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

MCU's best villains are without a doubt Ike Perlmutter, Robert Murdoch, and Kaz Hirai, though the latter has gotten a bit soft as of late. The former two are God tier villains though.

 

[Nemesis121]

This list lol, all of Marvel Cinematic Universe villains are trash, every single one..Fox Marvel movies have better villains..

 

[guek]

This is true, and it's a fair depiction of their relationship. I only criticize the notion that the 'Avengers are split' in any way more significant than we've already seen in the MCU. They came to blows in Age of Ultron too.

Nothing about the ending said "Zemo's plan to destroy the Avengers was successful" to me. He just presented them with an obstacle they are already on their way to overcoming (considering that Tony didn't take the opportunity to get Steve arrested at the end of the movie).

Honestly, the epilogue in AoU makes no sense. I like that movie quite a bit but the ending was a big let down. I get what you're saying but I think it's overstating it to say Zemo wasn't successful at all.

It still does not work. Why would he want to split the avengers instead of kill them? What kind of revenge is this? What would them splitting up do? They will still operate. Besides he should know Steve and Tony's personalities and recognize that splitting them up won't last.

Because he knows he can't kill them. Zemo said this himself in the movie, point blank, that stronger men have tried and failed. If he had used the super soldiers, there's more than a reasonable chance that they'd have won together as a team. Pay attention to the movie.

 

[Staf]

Meh, i think the MCU villains are on average good. The only ones i find bad are the Thor 2 and Ironman 2.

 

[guek]

No OP, you have bad taste in movies. The villains range from complete trash to below medicre. Loki is ok, Kingpin is pretty damn good and the Winter Soldier a top class villain. Everyone else is forgettable, irrelevant trash.

I think what OP is pushing against is this kind of hyperbole. Everything is always either really good or abhorrent putrid filth with no room for anything in between

 

[broncobuster]

I thought he was a poor man's Obadiah Stane, personally (who - apart from the fact it was Jeff Bridges - wasn't all that great either).

I liked Stane till he climbed in his suit. Before that, well, he's still a bad guy, but there's a tangibility to his motivation. He's business minded and greedy. That's it. Had Tony been killed in the convoy, it's not the end of the world or anything.

 

[Litan]

Say what you will about Zod, Joker, Luthor and

Spoiler

Enchantress

, to a lesser extent, but they actually got victories over the heroes. Course DC has access to their good villains so it figures. After Thanos, MCU has nothing left to work with worth a damnit 90% of their characters.

How you gonna criticize MCU villains while praising what the DCEU has done so far?
Zod was an alright villain, the rest are right down there with the worst of the MCU's.

Yeah DC has access to two of their best villains, Joker and Luthor, but they fucked both of them up. Both were some of the most disliked aspects of their respective movies.

 

[GeeTeeCee]

I liked Stane till he climbed in his suit. Before that, well, he's still a bad guy, but there's a tangibility to his motivation. He's business minded and greedy. That's it. Had Tony been killed in the convoy, it's not the end of the world or anything.

Yeah, that was the main part of my problem with Stane (and Cross). Gotta have the hero and villain fight to end the film, so get in the suit for the last act, regardless of whether or not it makes sense. I think Zemo is slightly overrated as a villain, but at least he had the sense to peace out and not try and take the heroes on in an actual fight.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Yellowjacket is legit underrated. He's the perfect villain for the movie; a neurotic businessman who only really wanted personal validation from Pym. The way the entire movie treats Pym as a catalyst of things is incredibly graceful.

Yep as a die-hard Pym fan I was sad that he was going to be aged up and sidelined in favor of Scott, but I really like how they handled Yellowjacket. Instead of being Pym, they made Yellowjacket and Ant-Man both mirror images of the original hero.

While Cross was nothing like the comic version, he was portrayed well as someone who could have become the next Ant-Man but instead was too influenced by Pym's dark side.

 

[DeathyBoy]

How you gonna criticize MCU villains while praising what the DCEU has done so far?
Zod was an alright villain, the rest are right down there with the worst of the MCU's.

Yeah DC has access to two of their best villains, Joker and Luthor, but they fucked both of them up. Both were some of the most disliked aspects of their respective movies.

Luthor manipulated Batman and Superman into fighting

Spoiler

and then created a beast that killed Superman. Dude overachieved.

Joker

Spoiler

killed Robin (offscreen.)

Zod forced Superman

Spoiler

to kill him.

These guys are actually causing DC heroes mega shit that lasts. Hell, Zod is responsible for the actions characters take in BvS and Suicide Squad.

 

[guek]

Luthor manipulated Batman and Superman into fighting

Spoiler

and then created a beast that killed Superman. Dude overachieved.

Joker

Spoiler

killed Robin (offscreen.)

Zod forced Superman

Spoiler

to kill him.

These guys are actually causing DC heroes mega shit that lasts. Hell, Zod is responsible for the actions characters take in BvS and Suicide Squad.

Lol dude. Yes, villains do stuff (though apparently it doesn't have to even be on screen to matter). You can play this game with practically any villain in any movie.

 

[vaderise]

Luthor manipulated Batman and Superman into fighting

Spoiler

and then created a beast that killed Superman. Dude overachieved.

Joker

Spoiler

killed Robin (offscreen.)

Zod forced Superman

Spoiler

to kill him.

These guys are actually causing DC heroes mega shit that lasts. Hell, Zod is responsible for the actions characters take in BvS and Suicide Squad.

Luthor's plan was super dump and he kinda succeded just because Batman acted like an idiot.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Lol dude. Yes, villains do stuff (though apparently it doesn't have to even be on screen to matter). You can play this game with practically any villain in any movie.

Except the MCU where Stane, Whiplash, Yellowjackets, Skull, Malekith et al are one and done, never mentioned again like they never existed.

Best MCU villains are the ones who do affect the characters in an ongoing way, but they're in the minority.

 

[MisterHero]

Yellowjacket had potential to be the douchiest and most effective villain in an Avengers movie. Reducing opponents to piles of mush is pretty fucked up.

I have hopes that Thanos lives up to his comic counterpart. +100 points if he brings back Red Skull

 

[guek]

Except the MCU where Stane, Whiplash, Yellowjackets, Skull, Malekith et al are one and done, never mentioned again like they never existed.

Best MCU villains are the ones who do affect the characters in an ongoing way, but they're in the minority.

Yes, the killing of villains is a problem, but the DCEU has only had 3 movies, none of which feature recurring villains. Your metric is broken because it can be used to argue against good villains or for poor ones.

I mean, Joker in SS? Really? Talk about trying too hard.

 

[Tonedeff]

Reading this thread, I realise I forgot about Marvel's Netflix shows. Admitting that I haven't seen Jessica Jones, gotta say that Kingpin is also a damn good villain.