Yeah, I really wanted to play as Ishmael instead in Episode 46. I honestly don't see the point of replaying the whole damn prologue as Ahab with little variances in scenes. Also, I feel pretty lucky that I found Chapter 2 totally tolerable. I did only a few of the replay missions to get the ending. And in one of the total stealth missions, I decided to just bombard the Walker Gears after failing several times. It was hilarious how I just did that and ran away like a coward.
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So what was wrong with MGSV's Story? [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Javin98
- Start date
Roni
Banned
Big Boss doesn't leave Kaz to die, he sends Venom to rescue him. Watch Peace Walker's final cutscene again. Kaz comes clean and he accepts it.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
What's that got to do with what I said...?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Story in mgs1 is great. Not sure where you're going with that.
The briefing tapes set everything up well. All the foxhound squad make for engaging villains. You don't have the storg pacing issues of 2 and its darker in tone than 3 without removing any of the series signature humor.
No issues with the plot either. Liquid's plan to lure Snake to input the code makes sense and one of the henchman making a mistake early on (killing Darpa Chief) is an interesting way to write a spy story. People criticize Kojima's ideas on how genetics work but at the end of the credits Liquid is shown to be wrong anyway.
Moments like Naomi talking to Snake in the cell or Mantis' death scene reveal layers of Snake's lonely disposition. He is a distant yet sympathetic protagonist who experiences development from an alcoholic, pessimistic hermit to an optimistic man who just wants to live.
borborygmus
Member
He didn't really choose to be in that hospital, and it's not like he could've rescued those other patients. I don't see how he used them as human shields, unless I'm forgetting something.
Let's say you're right, it's supposed to be stupid. In that case, I want to have some stupid fun, so they should let me play as a character, not a boring faceless MMO avatar who gets plastic surgery.
butman
Member
Worst MGS after 4.
- Boring voice acting.
- Is Troy Baker, not Ocelot.
- What the fuck with Big Boss dialogues, it like a JRPG silent main char. He only say little sentences and words. How many minutes did he recorded? 15? Keifer minutes must be way too expensive
- Repetitive missions.
- Pointless Landing points.
- Pointless upgrades, recruitment and resources stuffs.
- The game falls apart after Quiet fight.
- How many boss fights? 2? 3?
- Replay harder old missions to get the new ones is ridiculous.
- Where is Solid Snake?
- The horse is pointless after you get vehicles, Quiet and DD.
- The rest of weapons are useless after you get silent Sniper Rifle.
It's not a MGS game.
- Boring voice acting.
- Is Troy Baker, not Ocelot.
- What the fuck with Big Boss dialogues, it like a JRPG silent main char. He only say little sentences and words. How many minutes did he recorded? 15? Keifer minutes must be way too expensive
- Repetitive missions.
- Pointless Landing points.
- Pointless upgrades, recruitment and resources stuffs.
- The game falls apart after Quiet fight.
- How many boss fights? 2? 3?
- Replay harder old missions to get the new ones is ridiculous.
- Where is Solid Snake?
- The horse is pointless after you get vehicles, Quiet and DD.
- The rest of weapons are useless after you get silent Sniper Rifle.
It's not a MGS game.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Would the Snake we have known before, the man who consistently faces impossible odds with nary a bat of an eyelid, do something like that...?
It's not meant to be outright stupid, but the series has always been a phallocentric, military, sci-fi, soap opera with a side order of lofty themes. Guess what we got? Some mindless fun with a serious message in there, just like always.
Venom is a character. Compare and contrast Truth Tapes/GZ Snake to Venom and you'll see there is a world of difference.
borborygmus
Member
I'd have liked to explore this change in personality, perhaps in this game.
What you're saying is that it's got a badass action movie vibe. Not letting us play as Big Boss is like when you invite your friends over as a kid, but don't let them play with your good action figures.
You make a decent case for Venom being a character, but I find it hard to enjoy this character when his biggest defining characteristic is that he thinks he's Big Boss. The difference is not intuitive, and muddled by the fact that he's been comatose for 9 years and has sustained a traumatic brain injury.
I love this game a lot. That's why it stole a month of my life. The story however...
1) Get rid of chapters. Chapter 2 should be an epilogue.
2) Ocelot is a wasted character.
3) Continually beating you over the head with the twist.
4) No pay off after revelation. We're just expected to believe "blahblah oh yeah now Big Boss is working with the USA again as a new unit". Massive gap still unfilled with no story to expand on this new knowledge of two Big Bosses.
5) Wasted story time exploring dead ends for most of the game with Skullface being disposed of in the most mundane way (I loved his death scene, however).
1) Get rid of chapters. Chapter 2 should be an epilogue.
2) Ocelot is a wasted character.
3) Continually beating you over the head with the twist.
4) No pay off after revelation. We're just expected to believe "blahblah oh yeah now Big Boss is working with the USA again as a new unit". Massive gap still unfilled with no story to expand on this new knowledge of two Big Bosses.
5) Wasted story time exploring dead ends for most of the game with Skullface being disposed of in the most mundane way (I loved his death scene, however).
AgentLampshade
Member
For me, it was the completely flat characters, the disappointing story arc that goes nowhere, and the cut content. The characters are so one-note it's hard to actually call them characters. Sure Major Zero gave you tons of exposition in Snake Eater, but he had a personality. There were jokes, opinions and a sense of camaraderie that Kaz and Ocelot lack. Ocelot becomes an exposition machine and Kaz is just too angry all the time to enjoy watching. Quiet is the closest thing to a character, and her arc is terrible! She's quiet because she doesn't want to infect you, but refuses to communicate or cooperate any other way, even after bringing her along on missions and maxing out the "friendship meter".
Venom himself is supposed to have this amazing charisma about him (even after the revelation) but it's never shown, and he spends most of his time looking into the distance with no expression. He's boring to watch and hard to care about, and then it's revealed he's you all along! I'll be honest, I'd have preferred the Gray Fox is Big Boss theory. At least I could give a shit about Gray Fox.
The story is as flat as the characters. There are no twists or turns until the very end, every important revelation is delivered via cassette tape with Venom barely appearing in thrm and the Metal Gear is completely nonsensical. The story's played straight - You are Big Boss, you must rebuild your army, you must take revenge on Skull Face. The missions that lead up to that revenge are so boring you have to rely on your ever expanding arsenal to make them interesting. What really got me was the part where they go and look for Sahelanthropus only to discover it literally hasn't moved since where you last saw it. The jeep ride wasn't needed. We had known where it was 40 hours ago.
Lets talk about Sahelanthropus yeah? Err... Why is it powered by anger? I know Metal Gear has always had a foot in the ridiculousness, but a robot powered by anger shatters my suspension of disbelief quite a bit. Oh it's controlled by Mantis who in turn is controlled by whoevers angriest. Come on! That's not even ridiculous! That's just lazy! Anyway, in the end Sahelanthropus is stolen away by kids and... Nothing. The game ends without even a tape describing what will happen to it. I know I know, this is on Konami, not Kojima, but it still detracts from the game and no, I don't accept a half-finished cutscene from the Collectors Edition to be canon. It's not in the game, and was kept back for people who spent more money. Fuck that Mission 51.
Venom himself is supposed to have this amazing charisma about him (even after the revelation) but it's never shown, and he spends most of his time looking into the distance with no expression. He's boring to watch and hard to care about, and then it's revealed he's you all along! I'll be honest, I'd have preferred the Gray Fox is Big Boss theory. At least I could give a shit about Gray Fox.
The story is as flat as the characters. There are no twists or turns until the very end, every important revelation is delivered via cassette tape with Venom barely appearing in thrm and the Metal Gear is completely nonsensical. The story's played straight - You are Big Boss, you must rebuild your army, you must take revenge on Skull Face. The missions that lead up to that revenge are so boring you have to rely on your ever expanding arsenal to make them interesting. What really got me was the part where they go and look for Sahelanthropus only to discover it literally hasn't moved since where you last saw it. The jeep ride wasn't needed. We had known where it was 40 hours ago.
Lets talk about Sahelanthropus yeah? Err... Why is it powered by anger? I know Metal Gear has always had a foot in the ridiculousness, but a robot powered by anger shatters my suspension of disbelief quite a bit. Oh it's controlled by Mantis who in turn is controlled by whoevers angriest. Come on! That's not even ridiculous! That's just lazy! Anyway, in the end Sahelanthropus is stolen away by kids and... Nothing. The game ends without even a tape describing what will happen to it. I know I know, this is on Konami, not Kojima, but it still detracts from the game and no, I don't accept a half-finished cutscene from the Collectors Edition to be canon. It's not in the game, and was kept back for people who spent more money. Fuck that Mission 51.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
You did.
It's more like a badass anime, but yeah.
Haha! That's funny. Before the twist, did you feel like you were playing as Big Boss? If so, what's the difference?
I'd argue his biggest defining characteristic is that he's you.
It isn't. Psycho Mantis' power is.
WrenchNinja
Member
what kind of story only has two chapters
SomedayTheFire
Member
yeah when your "twist" depends on the audience thinking it's too stupid then you have failed as a storyteller.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Nibel's got most of my gripes down. Skullface in particular was massively disappointing.
so which is it? Is he the player, or is he his own character?
Because if he was me, he would've shot huey.
I think this is the real issue. There is plenty of story - in terms of hours and plot points, not dissimilar to a standard MGS game - but the pacing of it is hours of gameplay vs minutes of cutscene.
Which I, personally, am 100% happy with.
I'm right there with you, OP. I loved the ending and the whole game - huge, horrid warts and all.
He's his own character literally, but thematically he is you. You are he - he wouldn't move or exist without you.
He's both basically. It's a thematic point underlying the literal plot point that he is a man whose life was erased to act as a body double for the greatest soldier of all time.
This has all been covered anyway.
The only thing I didn't like was how it was presented. Most of the story was told through tapes. bleh! I wanted long ass cutscenes.
Long-ass cutscenes were literally the last thing I have ever wanted from an MGS game. I haven't touched MGS4 since 2009 - I've replayed every other MGS game at least once (skipping a couple of the too-long ones).
SomedayTheFire
Member
Like every other character in gaming. Medic is not the player. That may be "the theme", but it fails spectacularly. Medic still makes his own choices, the player cannot interact, or change them. Medic is medic. The whole Medic is a shitty character because he represents the player is bullshit spin.
There's a lot I agree with in your post - but this is off-mark.
Venom isn't supposed to have any amazing charisma. Big Boss is. Everyone thinks Venom is BB, but he's not. So this uncanny sense about Venom; that he never speaks, that he never seems to know what to do and always defers command, that he clearly feels uncomfortable and stares in to the distance – are all symptoms of his fucked up, brain damaged and hypnotised mind. Which evidently knows it's not in the right place.
When we see Big Boss in The Truth - then we see that age-old Snake charisma. And it is fucking perfectly played. He responds. He asks questions. He makes on-liners.
So well done, imo. Even if lots of the story isn't.
It's not spin about anything. That's literally the point that Kojima was making. He ties up Venom (née Medic - who doesn't exist anymore) as BB's doppleganger whose existence explains certain events in MG1 and 2. But as a message, as a 'thank you' to the players, Kojima literally writes that the players (eg Venom) built the whole legacy of Big Boss with him. It's not spin - it's pretty much verbatim what Big Boss says in the 'Man who sold the world' tape.
You say "it fails spectacularly" then miss the point. You can have literal plot (Venom's actions) and thematic undertones. This is true of any strong work of fiction. The literal plot is what Venom does or doesn't do. The thematic undertones are abstract, metaphorical. Kojima fails in many ways in MGSV, but one thing he nailed IMO is that final thematic message. The only reason any of the MGS games exist is because the players enabled it - and this is is sign-off message for good.
borborygmus
Member
You did.
How so? There's hardly anything in this game that deals with the real Big Boss.
The difference is that I thought I got to experience something that Big Boss accomplished, but the writers swooped in at the last second and said "nope!"
They fooled me, and I was happy while I was being fooled, but no longer.
- How can it simultaneously be me, and the medic from Ground Zeroes?
- I am a boring guy, I don't play games to be me.
- If Medic = Venom = Me, and I controlled Solid Snake in MGS1, how can Venom = Me be dead in the storyline at that point?
(I'm semi-joking here ;])
I disagree with you, as I'm pretty sure that him looking like Big Boss is a much bigger characteristic and in fact a selling point. Would you have bought this game if they advertised that you'd play as an MMO avatar?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Well, I was specifically differentiating him from Big Boss with that comment, but now you mention it, he's both.
The cutscenes are the Medic as a character (although we are interestingly given one choice during this time). He makes those decisions. The gameplay is all us. That's why we're given unprecedented freedom: which missions we tackle, when, how, what equipment, who we take etc. It's our actions and decisions during the gameplay that will live on as part of Big Boss' legend, not Venom's actions in cutscenes which, as events, are largely forgotten in the series.
Si Correcto.
In the same way that we experience Solid Snake in MGS2. We control him for a bit when he is being manipulated (GZ) and then we see him from the outside when he takes more control (TPP).
But if you felt like Big Boss and thought you were Big Boss during that time, is there really any difference? That's one of the questions the game poses at the end, I think. It's interesting given how the series jumps between characters who are largely the same, but people still pick their favourites between Solid Snake and Big Boss.
See above.
- I am a boring guy, I don't play games to be me.
That's okay. You were playing as Big Boss... as far as you were aware.
I don't get you.
Would I buy a Kojima game? Yes.
Would I buy a game that lied to me about who the main character was? I've done it twice and regretted neither.
Yup. "Medic is you" - he's not, it's not a role playing game.
I'd have totally eventually
SomedayTheFire
Member
So Geralt from the Witcher 3 is the player as well. Got it.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with the game's story per se. Its the presentation that lacks.
Having replayed the game from the beginning focusing ONLY at the main missions (and the necessary important yellow side ops) without replaying anything (meaning no repeat missions in act 2) the game's story gets the job done and it has a surprising amount of depth.
Main missions, even the ones that seem out of place, all are interconnected in some way and they are indeed part of how the story builds up.
Most people (myself included) who played MGSV played a ton of side missions as well as replayed main missions, that literally destroy the pacing of the game.You would be extremely surprised at the amount of story included in Chapter 2 if you only focused at the 6 main missions included in that chapter (no replay missions). In fact Chapter 2 -I could argue- has much better pace than Chapter 1.
So the game's problem, for me , is mainly its presentation, the way that some important things are being told via a prisoner divulging important information to the player (that the player can easily miss) or equally important discussions from enemies you have to tail.
Then there are the huge amounts of tapes , which I personally enjoyed, but I can understand that people dont like that.
All in all its mostly the execution/presentation that lacks. If one dissects MGSV's themes and overall plot elements its a pretty surprising amount of great stuff.
Kojima opted for a completely different narrative than what we were used to in this series. He kinda missed the mark in terms of executing it the best way, but I enjoyed what was and still is, there. MGSV has story, its pretty deep once you explore the themes and events unfolding, but it requires from the player to dig into it.
I understand the disappointment, but a lot of people went way overboard with this.
Having replayed the game from the beginning focusing ONLY at the main missions (and the necessary important yellow side ops) without replaying anything (meaning no repeat missions in act 2) the game's story gets the job done and it has a surprising amount of depth.
Main missions, even the ones that seem out of place, all are interconnected in some way and they are indeed part of how the story builds up.
Most people (myself included) who played MGSV played a ton of side missions as well as replayed main missions, that literally destroy the pacing of the game.You would be extremely surprised at the amount of story included in Chapter 2 if you only focused at the 6 main missions included in that chapter (no replay missions). In fact Chapter 2 -I could argue- has much better pace than Chapter 1.
So the game's problem, for me , is mainly its presentation, the way that some important things are being told via a prisoner divulging important information to the player (that the player can easily miss) or equally important discussions from enemies you have to tail.
Then there are the huge amounts of tapes , which I personally enjoyed, but I can understand that people dont like that.
All in all its mostly the execution/presentation that lacks. If one dissects MGSV's themes and overall plot elements its a pretty surprising amount of great stuff.
Kojima opted for a completely different narrative than what we were used to in this series. He kinda missed the mark in terms of executing it the best way, but I enjoyed what was and still is, there. MGSV has story, its pretty deep once you explore the themes and events unfolding, but it requires from the player to dig into it.
I understand the disappointment, but a lot of people went way overboard with this.
borborygmus
Member
Yes. You have to grind resources to develop your base enough to unlock mission 46, which exposes everything.
As you said yourself, every game made ever features 'player as actor' where the players act the protagonist.
In MGSV's case, Kojima used this fact as a final thank you note to players. It doesn't make MGSV's twist special in itself, of course every game is like that. What makes it special is that Kojima laterally broke the fourth wall and made it part of the game's core message.
It's not a literal comparison. Good god, did anyone ITT do literature or art at high school?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yup, that's the post-modern take away. That relationship in Witcher 3 isn't (I assume) acknowledged, commented on., or tie into the mechanics.
borborygmus
Member
C'mon, Metal Gear is not high art. You're discrediting yourself by implying that others don't understand symbolism if they find Metal Gear hacky.
I understood what it was going for. I just thought it was weak, even by series standards, not to mention very stingy with delivering in terms of story.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
He's not saying it's high art (quite the opposite).
Kojima is hardly hacky though. Trashy? Sure. Not hacky though. Do people actually know what hack means because I've seen flying around some very undeserving writers...
Metal Gear Hacky is quite a good title though XD
That's fair enough. A lot of what he went for didn't hit the mark. I'm just glad he tries these things, pushes himself and takes risks with his triple AAA property rather than sit on his laurels and make incremental changes like pretty much every other developer.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Kojima: Congratulations player, the real Big Boss.... was you!!!!!
(five minutes seconds later during credits timeline)
Kojima: your counterfeit ass fake big boss died because they were a fake chump and the Real 100% True Big Boss (the real one) did all the important stuff for the rest of the series, because they were real and not fake like you
(five minutes seconds later during credits timeline)
Kojima: your counterfeit ass fake big boss died because they were a fake chump and the Real 100% True Big Boss (the real one) did all the important stuff for the rest of the series, because they were real and not fake like you
WrenchNinja
Member
male players
borborygmus
Member
He's claiming that I don't understand the symbolism behind the twist of MGS 5, whereas I simply don't like it.
I use the term hacky loosely. I don't know about trashy. I guess it's pulpy. This feels like a conversation from Seinfeld.
I didn't say it was. And it's clear that many ITT do not understand the symbolism. If you did and you don't like it – no sweat. That's cool. I thought it was a bit cheesy, and not executed particularly well, but still an effective twist and a very nice thing to insert at the end of your last-ever MGS game after almost 30 years.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Yeah I'm really struggling to see what about that is special? He took a character loved by fans and made a pale imitation and said "WOOO THAT U", then proceeded to tear that imitation down saying that nothing they did was worth shit. Much like I felt after my time with MGSV. So it did succeed in one way, being worthless.
Edit: beaten by EmCeeGamer
WrenchNinja
Member
hack·y
ˈhakē/
adjectiveinformal
1.
lacking originality; hackneyed.
"we already know what those hacky punchlines are going to be"
2.
(of a piece of computer code) providing a clumsy or inelegant solution to a particular problem.
"I realize this is a hacky workaround but I don't have time to investigate a more solid fix"
Sure sounds like kojima
ˈhakē/
adjectiveinformal
1.
lacking originality; hackneyed.
"we already know what those hacky punchlines are going to be"
2.
(of a piece of computer code) providing a clumsy or inelegant solution to a particular problem.
"I realize this is a hacky workaround but I don't have time to investigate a more solid fix"
Sure sounds like kojima
EmCeeGramr
Member
Kojima, 2001: Please don't try to identify with video game characters. I moved Heaven and Earth to even make the corporate marketing scheme directly tie into that theme of my work. You're not Snake, and Raiden isn't you anymore either, just be yourself.
Kojima, 2015: Uh... gosh, who's this Ishmael guy in the trailers, you ask? Uh... lol i dunno. Anyway, Big Boss lives in all our hearts [achievement unlocked sound effect], but seriously, the guy in MG2 and MGS4 was a different guy so don't get any big ideas
Kojima, 2015: Uh... gosh, who's this Ishmael guy in the trailers, you ask? Uh... lol i dunno. Anyway, Big Boss lives in all our hearts [achievement unlocked sound effect], but seriously, the guy in MG2 and MGS4 was a different guy so don't get any big ideas
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Pulpy is good!
You said: "- How can it simultaneously be me, and the medic from Ground Zeroes?" which isn't a comment on whether you liked it or not and suggests you took it literally rather than metaphorically.
Kojima is hardly lacking in originality.
bishopcruz
Member
The story had its issues, primarily in pacing and the fact that it was incomplete. My biggest ones were:
Venom is a great MC. He's clearly different from BB, but I thought his characterization was damned good. Venom is in the situation he was in because he failed to find the second bomb in Paz. His mistake nearly caused BB's death, he feels that he also let a girl who he clearly had feelings for down (seriously, there are Paz posters all around, listen to her tapes again, Venom had the hots for her.) Of course, she was a dead woman anyway, but Venom didn't know that at the time.
That's not all. His failure lost him 9 years of his life, nearly killed BB, and killed any chance of rebuilding MSF. He was BB's best soldier and he still messed up. Even after he loses memory of who he was, that failure haunts him.
Venom wants desprately to be the hero. He wants to save everyone, and rebuild what he had in MSF. Sure he thinks he's BB, but he really is a different character. Look how he responds to people, look at what he does. The Paz scenes are heartbreaking, the stuff with Quiet as well. Venom routinely ignores the advice of his best men when it comes to saving others, he takes in the kids, he doesn't kill Quiet.
His defining moment in the game was when he had to stop the outbreak. And once again, fails to save anyone. It's the actual climax of his journey in the game we got, and his reactions were gold.
The problem is, that we don't get to see the end of this plot thread in the game itself. Mission 51 would have been the perfect end for him, shooting Eli, then finally saying fuck it, and leaving him to die due to his own stupidity. At that point, he no longer cared.
Huey's stuff was great as well, as it showed a descent into madness, and having such an incredible ass be so similar to your best bro in previous games really worked. And it had the added bonus of knowing that his son would eventually bone his next wife, and drive him to suicide.
Quiet's stuff was also strong. She was by far the best new character in the game, and her final mission was heartbreaking.
In the end though, the overall story the A to B to C of the plot wasn't what the game was about, it was about the characters, primarily Venom, and I thought it did a great job with far less intrusive cinematics than previous titles. Could it have had more? Clearly. But after the excess of MGS4, I was kinda happy for the attempt at subtlety.
- Too much detail on the copulating parasites. I'm fine with the weird nature gives superpowers concept, but honestly, the parasites drove all of human evolution? Fuck that. IMO, Code Talker is just a crazy old man with some wild ass theories. It's not like anything he said could be proven anyway.
- Not enough Skull Face. In GZ tapes,. Skull Face was damned terrifying but he was pretty much a non entity in TPP, we really needed more interactions with, him, a boss fight, anything.
- No fall. Yeah, we see where things are going, but there is no way around the fact that the marketing for the game was a complete lie. We don't see Vanom's descent into madness, and we don't see Big Boss' fall (it seems like he's already there). I think part of what has people so pissed is this, essentially the end of PW WAS the fall of BB. This is another story, the building of the legend.
- The best scenes in the game were spoiled in trailers YEARS ago. It made scenes have far less impact than they should have.
Venom is a great MC. He's clearly different from BB, but I thought his characterization was damned good. Venom is in the situation he was in because he failed to find the second bomb in Paz. His mistake nearly caused BB's death, he feels that he also let a girl who he clearly had feelings for down (seriously, there are Paz posters all around, listen to her tapes again, Venom had the hots for her.) Of course, she was a dead woman anyway, but Venom didn't know that at the time.
That's not all. His failure lost him 9 years of his life, nearly killed BB, and killed any chance of rebuilding MSF. He was BB's best soldier and he still messed up. Even after he loses memory of who he was, that failure haunts him.
Venom wants desprately to be the hero. He wants to save everyone, and rebuild what he had in MSF. Sure he thinks he's BB, but he really is a different character. Look how he responds to people, look at what he does. The Paz scenes are heartbreaking, the stuff with Quiet as well. Venom routinely ignores the advice of his best men when it comes to saving others, he takes in the kids, he doesn't kill Quiet.
His defining moment in the game was when he had to stop the outbreak. And once again, fails to save anyone. It's the actual climax of his journey in the game we got, and his reactions were gold.
The problem is, that we don't get to see the end of this plot thread in the game itself. Mission 51 would have been the perfect end for him, shooting Eli, then finally saying fuck it, and leaving him to die due to his own stupidity. At that point, he no longer cared.
Huey's stuff was great as well, as it showed a descent into madness, and having such an incredible ass be so similar to your best bro in previous games really worked. And it had the added bonus of knowing that his son would eventually bone his next wife, and drive him to suicide.
Quiet's stuff was also strong. She was by far the best new character in the game, and her final mission was heartbreaking.
In the end though, the overall story the A to B to C of the plot wasn't what the game was about, it was about the characters, primarily Venom, and I thought it did a great job with far less intrusive cinematics than previous titles. Could it have had more? Clearly. But after the excess of MGS4, I was kinda happy for the attempt at subtlety.
borborygmus
Member
Alright, fair enough. I still think plastic surgery was the laziest way to execute this idea, not that I think the idea is any good (though I would have been open to being convinced about it).
I interpreted it literally in that context because Medic is a specific guy to which the player has no attachment in Ground Zeroes and plays a rather mundane role as a soldier. Using this character for symbolizing the player is counterintuitive.
This is a much more valid argument. But I still think it was fine. The themes surrounding Solid Snake/Raiden are a different set that apply to BB/Ishmael/guy in MG2/guy in MGS4.
I say right in the post you responded to that it's not special. For god's sake man, you're adding nothing here.
Plastic surgery was the weakest part of the plot - except for Quiet not just writing down her thoughts/the truth when she came over to the DD side.
At least throughout the game quite a lot of people clearly double-take when they see Venom, and are thrown by the plastic surgery. It was pretty well developed in there.
Haha, nice to see we agree on The Last Of Us, Uncharted 2 and now MGSV.
Oh, well, luckily I searched for containers in every mission and side ops, so no grinding was needed for me. Hell, my command platform is level 4 and the rest are level 3 and I got mission 46.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
You can play as a female and still be referred to as Boss by Mother Base.
It doesn't matter who you play as, you are Big Boss via proxy in mgsv.
SomedayTheFire
Member
I read that sentence wrong. My bad. The point stands, the twist was a foolish end to the series, horribly handled and a cop out of telling the actual story.
Moon_frogger
Member
I had my issues. Ocelot was done badly. Very very disappointed by that. There wasn't enough of skull face in the game either, although what was there was amazing in my opinion. After the chilling setup in ground zeroes we didn't get to explore the character enough. The game and plot felt unfinished.
That said, what we did get was amazing and a wicked send off for the series. The missing link was 100 percent present and accounted for while still leaving things open for more. A perfect compromise. The game ends in outer heaven, not sure what people are expecting, a 3rd chapter retelling the entirety of mg1? Get real. I guess people were expecting more tie in with the original games, where big boss is this cartoonish evil dude which obviously was never going to happen. I promise if Kojima were to remake the first game that big boss would be a far more nuanced character than what was in mg1. That game had slightly more plot than the original super Mario bros and not quite as much as dragon quest so it's a little weird that people were expecting a cartoon villain big boss seeing as he's only depicted that way in mg1. Ah well.
That said, what we did get was amazing and a wicked send off for the series. The missing link was 100 percent present and accounted for while still leaving things open for more. A perfect compromise. The game ends in outer heaven, not sure what people are expecting, a 3rd chapter retelling the entirety of mg1? Get real. I guess people were expecting more tie in with the original games, where big boss is this cartoonish evil dude which obviously was never going to happen. I promise if Kojima were to remake the first game that big boss would be a far more nuanced character than what was in mg1. That game had slightly more plot than the original super Mario bros and not quite as much as dragon quest so it's a little weird that people were expecting a cartoon villain big boss seeing as he's only depicted that way in mg1. Ah well.
*fist bump*
Also I didn't have to grind for MIssion 46 either. I just played the fucking game and enjoyed the shit out of it. And ta-da I got all the story content it's possible to see without any grinding.
Yep, I did exactly the same and I guess we're both scratching our heads over why some people had to grind to get mission 46. Hell, all I did was watch Huey's exile and I got missions 45-50 immediately after.
Fancy Clown
Member
I don't have major issues with the overall story, it would probably even be pretty enjoyable, but the storytelling itself is really bad. I much prefer Kojima's bloated, awkward scripts to one where nobody ever speaks except to deliver exposition, characters have almost no personality, the villains have no presence, and almost anything interesting is relegated to tapes.