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[Son of Cervantes]

Archer and Kirk are my personal favorites. Archer is really interesting because he's not a military commander, he's an explorer suddenly thrust into the middle of a war, with no allies (even the Vulcans refuse to help), and billions of people's lives resting on his shoulders. Add to that the fact that he's piloting a ship markedly inferior to most others during that era (Vulcans, Tellarites, Andorians, Romulans, etc., all had better ships - I still remember that one episode where some aliens took refuge in his ship from an oncoming storm and told him matter-of-factly to go warp 7 to evade it...and the pained look on Archer's face when he told them his ship only went to warp 5). He was able to establish friendly relations with the Andorians and the Tellarites, he was able to help reform the corrupt Vulcan government and stop a Vulcan-Andorian War, he exposed Romulan provocations meant to ignite conflict, etc. Plus, he treated his crew like people instead of automatons. He was genuinely likable.

Kirk because he's the original, a man of action, a man who was willing to bend the Prime Directive as far as possible if it meant doing the right thing, and took full responsibility for it.

Worst was easily Janeway because of how inconsistently she was written. Some episodes would have her blithely breaking the Prime Directive, others would have her wringing her hands over some moral quandary. Her personality changed from episode to episode, and so did how she treated her crew. In some episodes she would encourage the Doctor in expanding beyond his program to become an individual, while in others she would compare him to a replicator and alter his program when it was convenient. Just an awful captain overall.

 

[Escape Goat]

He had the right idea though. That phase cloak technology could've saved countless lives in whatever conflict the Federation might possibly have had in the future...

Not pursuing cloaking technology saved countless lives too. It got the Romulans to sign a treaty. By time Ds9 came aroundbit seemed cloaks werent so great what with all the anti proton beams flying everywhere.

 

[notworksafe]

He had the right idea though. That phase cloak technology could've saved countless lives in whatever conflict the Federation might possibly have had in the future...

I agree. Good idea, bad execution. Also letting most of your crew die is a bad look.

 

[Timbuktu]

The thing with Janeway is that she was in a completely different situation to all the other captains, all the others had StarFleet to fall back on, i tended to see her as more of a mother figure, the crew was much more of a family than on the other ships & she had to be more than a captain, she was also made an admiral not long after getting back to Earth.

I would even prefer Captain Ransom over Janeway and her situation wasn't anywhere near as bad. They are both genocidal maniacs but as least he kinda feel some semblance of guilt about it and his ship was actually desperate. His journey would have made for more compelling viewing for Voyager.

I don't actually kind Janeway that much except for a few episodes where they use her to resolve impossible plots and ruin her character.

And making Admiral is just proof that someone is crazy. Pretty much all of them are a little bit insane.

 

[Wyndstryker]

Nicole Janeway.

So bad even they had to bring in Kathryn Janeway and redo the whole pilot episode.

 

[The Purple Pill]

If Voyager was such a "family" why did she only go back far enough to save the people she gave a shit about? To say nothing for the children of crew members that were wiped from existence just because she felt bad that Chakotay and Seven died.

The problem with Janeway was that she was written as a broderline Mary Sue because the writers were absolutely terrified of making the woman captain look weak. All interesting conflict with the half Maquis crew was removed from the show and only the subject of 2 or 3 episodes because everyone had to love Janeway. The fact that she is not a tactician and her new first officer is head of a guerrilla force is never an issue as Chakotay is pretty much just Janeway's yes man for seven years. She is always right, and everyone else is always wrong.

SFDebris put it pretty well. "Voyager is where good ideas go to die"

Well put. The whole notion of Janeway having to be right all the time and never wrong, killed the show hard, and somehow I kept watching for a couple season back in the day, in hope something interesting would happen, well the crew itself was more interesting than the captain. I would be skipping Voyager, whenever DS9 or TNG had reruns, back in the day.

Archer was terrible in the beginning but he kind of grew on you, and I consider that show to be the worst, more so of the rushed ending.

TV Picard has no equal. Sisko is my number two but he was number one in awesome wars though, Dominion arcs were amazing, I taped the show on VHS and had the luck of getting the famous battle for Cadassia Prime on it too, yay. Such amazing fleets.

 

[DrForester]

Good Guy Sisko

Nicole Janeway.

So bad even they had to bring in Kathryn Janeway and redo the whole pilot episode.

Well part of the pilot. I've only ever seen two or three scenes with her. All on the bridge or her ready room.

Archer was terrible in the beginning but he kind of grew on you, and I consider that show to be the worst, more so of the rushed ending.

Think the biggest disappointment with Archer was that I absolutely loved Quantum Leap and when I heard he was going to be the new Captain, I was pumped. Then the show happened...

 

[SpoonyBard]

Think the biggest disappointment with Archer was that I absolutely loved Quantum Leap and when I heard he was going to be the new Captain, I was pumped. Then the show happened...

Same for me. Archer was just so boring as a character compared to Sam Beckett. Of course having Al to play against made the character in QL, and T'Pol or any of the other bridge crew really weren't up to the task in Enterprise. Tucker was about the only character that had any potential really...

 

[Henchmen21]

Movie Picard and here's why. Everyone will say that Janeway or Archer but let's be honest, those shows were shit from start to finish so you never expected much if anything from their respective captains. DS9 is anti trek (don't think so? ask anyone who came into trek with ds9 and they'll say how they never watched ST prior. It's the same thing with the Abrahms abortions). Movie Picard sucks because you know what a rich and developed character he was through 5 amazing seasons and two crap ones in the tv show (If the two crap seasons you think I'm referring to are seasons 1 & 2, you couldn't be more wrong) only for them to completely butcher and mangle his character. Picard was not an action hero and was all the better for it.

 

[The Purple Pill]

Same for me. Archer was just so boring as a character compared to Sam Beckett. Of course having Al to play against made the character in QL, and T'Pol or any of the other bridge crew really weren't up to the task in Enterprise. Tucker was about the only character that had any potential really...

Indeed, Tucker was the most likeable person there, better potential for a good captain too, he also resembled Kirk, in certain ways.

Spoiler

But they fucked that up nicely, when they killed him off in the end.

Good Guy Sisko

Think the biggest disappointment with Archer was that I absolutely loved Quantum Leap and when I heard he was going to be the new Captain, I was pumped. Then the show happened...

True, the actor itself, made the show promising at first but just by the intro of the show, I just had a terrible feeling, which turned to be rightful.

 

[Delta Assault]

Not pursuing cloaking technology saved countless lives too. It got the Romulans to sign a treaty. By time Ds9 came aroundbit seemed cloaks werent so great what with all the anti proton beams flying everywhere.

Those were normal cloaks though. Who knows what anti-proton beams would've done to a phased cloak. Or even if they were detected... you can't damage something if your shots phase through them.

 

[MisterHero]

It's obviously Spock. He's not Kirk.

And he got himself killed

 

[Verger]

Janeway isn't the worst because she at least gets shit done. Even if everything is stacked against her she'll pull through with luck because she is crazy.

Also her performance in Year of Hell was damn good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erb5DdMW4jU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYj5l0mGL-Y

I like the second clip because it's one of those rare arguments on the show that is great and were both parties are right. Doctor is right because Janeway is mentally unstable (well, more than normal), but only because she's had 8 months of getting the shit kicked out of her and her ship and then spending weeks with little to no sleep and on rations trying to keep her ship together. But Janeway is right in that she's the only one who can manage and delegate her skeleton crew and ensure that the huge task of repairing it can continue on since everyone left on board is a Specialist and not a delegator/manager.

I also wouldn't blame Voyager's writers per say (Hannibal's Bryan Fuller among them). The show was in a sad situation being pulled in different directions between Brannon Braga, Rick Berman and The UPN Network execs. The writing staff was on one of those crunch schedules pumping out stuff faster than they could think it through and continuity was heavily discouraged. I think Ronald Moore documented some of that during his sadly brief time with them.

 

[LoveCake]

If Voyager was such a "family" why did she only go back far enough to save the people she gave a shit about? To say nothing for the children of crew members that were wiped from existence just because she felt bad that Chakotay and Seven died.

The problem with Janeway was that she was written as a broderline Mary Sue because the writers were absolutely terrified of making the woman captain look weak. All interesting conflict with the half Maquis crew was removed from the show and only the subject of 2 or 3 episodes because everyone had to love Janeway. The fact that she is not a tactician and her new first officer is head of a guerrilla force is never an issue as Chakotay is pretty much just Janeway's yes man for seven years. She is always right, and everyone else is always wrong.

SFDebris put it pretty well. "Voyager is where good ideas go to die"

I think that she went back as far in time as she could because the ship had got the sufficient upgrades & also the need to use the TransWarp conduits that the Borg used & they were only available at the time Voyager was in close proximity to Unimatrix Zero, i do not doubt Janeway would have liked to have gone back earlier in time, but that date must have been the earliest when everything was in place to enable the ship to get home sooner, the only alternative would be to have gone back to 2371 & destroyed the Caretaker's Array, which would have jumped the shark more so than when Bobby Ewing walked out of the shower & revealing the last series was just a dream.

The Maquis crew didn't have much choice but to fall in line & follow StarFleet rules Chakotay made sure of this, i disagree Chakotay was a bit of a yes man, he challenged Janeway much more than Riker did Picard, but Janeway was the captain & once the captain makes a decision that is it & the orders are carried out.

The choice i made with Janeway 2nd & Sisko 3rd is very close really.

Janeway was thrown in at the deep end, she had to make do with what she had & also follows the rules of StarFleet, Janeway was much more of a explorer than the other captains.

Picard - Diplomat
Janeway - Explorer
Sisko - General / Fighter (Military)
Kirk - Spoilt child / Renegade
Archer - ? T'pol seemed to call the shots more than he did.

Kirk in the films was much better & probably my number one in the films, but as before Picard in the TV shows.

 

[McLovin]

Even as a kid I thought Janeway was kind of insane. I liked her as a captain though.

 

[PdotMichael]

Picard wad the most annoying one with all the Old English nonsense although he was even supposed to be French.

Plot armor Janeway was just a prime example of a mary sue character.

 

[Delta Assault]

Picard wad the most annoying one with all the Old English nonsense although he was even supposed to be French.

Plot armor Janeway was just a prime example of a mary sue character.

It makes sense if you just imagine that Britain conquered France in World War III.

 

[Gambit 1138]

Reboot Kirk almost got his whole crew killed like twice

 

[DrForester]

The Maquis crew didn't have much choice but to fall in line & follow StarFleet rules Chakotay made sure of this, i disagree Chakotay was a bit of a yes man, he challenged Janeway much more than Riker did Picard, but Janeway was the captain & once the captain makes a decision that is it & the orders are carried out.
.

That's kind of the point. You just can man a ship with half the crew hating Starfleet and expect them to just fit in instantly, and it certainly shouldn't have been given more than a single episode of lip service. The writers never even though of having Chakotay be the tactical one and Janeway seeking his counsel. She always knew exactly what to do, and she always stuck to her morals (whatever her morals were in that week's script that is). TNG and DS9 had to set up the Maquis for Voyager and both of those series had far more interesting plot lines involving them. Voyager operated business as usual when the entire set up of the series should have required them adapting to their situation.

 

[Mugsy]

Picard - Diplomat
Janeway - Explorer
Sisko - General / Fighter (Military)
Kirk - Spoilt child / Renegade
Archer - ? T'pol seemed to call the shots more than he did.

I think Janeway was supposed to be a scientist rather than an explorer, you can see that more clearly in the earlier episodes. The problem is that in star trek everyone (except Neelix) is a scientist in their own field already. Everyone can technobabble solutions in their own field, or even outside of their field if necessary. Picard is a diplomat and loves archeology but when Data starts talking science he can keep up fine. In addition all the others have character traits that lead them to act uniquely and pursue unique solutions to problems. Science solutions to problems are the worst kind as they usually lead to technobabble BS solutions. When used correctly they are just there to supplement the real meat of the episode.

 

[rykomatsu]

Captain Tim Watters

Got almost the entire USS Valiant crew killed because he was so damn cocky...

Edward Jelico was pretty bad too...

Spoiler

But they fucked that up nicely, when they killed him off in the end

Spoiler

He's not dead ... in the books... Section 31 something something...

 

[bonesmccoy]

Worf. Not everyone in your crew has a death wish, bub.

 

[Nekofrog]

Worf. Not everyone in your crew has a death wish, bub.

BUT IT WAS A GOOD DAY TO DIE BREH

 

[Fenderputty]

Picard
Kirk
Sisko
Janeway


I didnt watch enterprise.

 

[CoryCubed]

Didn't care for Ransom. I know he technically died a heroes death, but his selfishness with his crew caused more problems than it should have. He had a perfect opportunity to make things right with Voyager and the aliens and blew it. They could have joined forces with Voyager as the Maquis did and made something of themselves as Voyager headed home, and assuming they were able to solve the aliens, could have saved the Equinox and utilize their resources and knowledge to get home faster and safer, and make things right.

 

[Cheerilee]

He had the right idea though. That phase cloak technology could've saved countless lives in whatever conflict the Federation might possibly have had in the future...

In the TOS era, the Federation and Romulans were ready to wipe each other out. Spock sacrificed his heart in order to win a temporary, fleeting victory against the Romulans and their cloak. And as the Romulans said, they'll just make another weapon, and the Federation will break that one too, and another and another. Sometimes the Federation will win, sometimes the Romulans will. Their war will go on until one side can't get back up anymore.

And then... the Federation gave the stolen cloak back to the Romulans. How about we give peace a chance? If the Romulans are skittish and want the advantage, they can have it. They can keep their cloak. That worked. It wasn't perfect, but peace was working. In Picard's era, it actually seemed like Humans and Romulans might someday be able to understand each other and coexist in peace. When that "possible future conflict" arrived, in the form of the Dominion, the Romulans lent Sisko a cloaking device.

Captain Pressman and his allies in Starfleet would have thrown away the idea of peace with the Romulans and restarted an arms race against them in full force, on the assumption that leapfrogging over the cloaking device was a move powerful enough to destroy anyone who objected. First in line obviously being the Romulans. Possibly followed by the Klingons and Ferengi and Cardassians. Do you remember that episode where Geordi and Ro got phased? How long did it take for someone to break that phase? Several hours? What about when the entire galaxy has responded to Federation aggression by uniting and making the Federation their combined target? Actually, that might be giving this group too much credit, because they weren't just forward-thinking to what would happen after they leapfrogged the cloak, they apparently thought the peace treaty with Romulus was a mistake from the very beginning. They thought the Federation should have stayed at war with Romulus, cloak-vs-cloak, futuretech-vs-futuretech, until one side or the other was destroyed.

Didn't care for Ransom. I know he technically died a heroes death, but his selfishness with his crew caused more problems than it should have. He had a perfect opportunity to make things right with Voyager and the aliens and blew it. They could have joined forces with Voyager as the Maquis did and made something of themselves as Voyager headed home, and assuming they were able to solve the aliens, could have saved the Equinox and utilize their resources and knowledge to get home faster and safer, and make things right.

Janeway cut his balls off. She took command over him on a flimsy pretense, and then ordered his ship destroyed in order to cement her command. If he did nothing about it, his crew would be scrubbing Janeway's plasma conduits for the entire trip home and subject to Janeway's incompetent rule. So he resisted. Result: He dies, his ship is destroyed, and his crew spends the voyage home scrubbing Janeway's plasma conduits.

 

[Delta Assault]

In the TOS era, the Federation and Romulans were ready to wipe each other out. Spock sacrificed his heart in order to win a temporary, fleeting victory against the Romulans and their cloak. And as the Romulans said, they'll just make another weapon, and the Federation will break that one too, and another and another. Sometimes the Federation will win, sometimes the Romulans will. Their war will go on until one side can't get back up anymore.

And then... the Federation gave the stolen cloak back to the Romulans. How about we give peace a chance? If the Romulans are skittish and want the advantage, they can have it. They can keep their cloak. That worked. It wasn't perfect, but peace was working. In Picard's era, it actually seemed like Humans and Romulans might someday be able to understand each other and coexist in peace. When that "possible future conflict" arrived, in the form of the Dominion, the Romulans lent Sisko a cloaking device.

Captain Pressman and his allies in Starfleet would have thrown away the idea of peace with the Romulans and restarted an arms race against them in full force, on the assumption that leapfrogging over the cloaking device was a move powerful enough to destroy anyone who objected. First in line obviously being the Romulans. Possibly followed by the Klingons and Ferengi and Cardassians. Do you remember that episode where Geordi and Ro got phased? How long did it take for someone to break that phase? Several hours? What about when the entire galaxy has responded to Federation aggression by uniting and making the Federation their combined target? Actually, that might be giving this group too much credit, because they weren't just forward-thinking to what would happen after they leapfrogged the cloak, they apparently thought the peace treaty with Romulus was a mistake from the very beginning. They thought the Federation should have stayed at war with Romulus, cloak-vs-cloak, futuretech-vs-futuretech, until one side or the other was destroyed.

What? I never got the idea that they were throwing away the idea of peace with the Romulans. If you're testing the device out in secret (not in the middle of the damn Neutral Zone SMH), the Romulans are never going to know. It would've just been a "Break in case of emergency" weapon. I didn't get the sense that developing this device would lead to the Federation invading and conquering the Romulans, leading to the Federation invading and conquering the Klingons and Ferengi, etc.

And they might not have thought the entire peace treaty with Romulus was a mistake, simply the concession of giving up cloaking entirely. You can have a peace treaty with an enemy country without giving up vital technology. It's been done. So I'm not sure where you got this idea that they thought the Federation should have stayed at war with Romulus.

 

[Cheerilee]

What? I never got the idea that they were throwing away the idea of peace with the Romulans. If you're testing the device out in secret (not in the middle of the damn Neutral Zone SMH), the Romulans are never going to know. It would've just been a "Break in case of emergency" weapon. I didn't get the sense that developing this device would lead to the Federation invading and conquering the Romulans, leading to the Federation invading and conquering the Klingons and Ferengi, etc.

And they might not have thought the entire peace treaty with Romulus was a mistake, simply the concession of giving up cloaking entirely. You can have a peace treaty with an enemy country without giving up vital technology. It's been done. So I'm not sure where you got this idea that they thought the Federation should have stayed at war with Romulus.

The Romulans were clearly steadfast in their war resolve, and the Federation's war with them drove the Romulans to swap technology with the Klingons, powering up the Federation's two biggest enemies. War was a major, immediate threat to the Federation.

The cloak can be beaten. That was proven several times, and predicted in TOS-era to be endless. Cloaks will be "perfected" and then defeated and perfected again. Peace with Romulus required an unprecedented gesture. The cloak was stolen, so the Federation gave it back. That would be a pointless gesture if Starfleet somehow "invents" a cloak a few years later, because that would only be possible because they cheated and looked at the Romulan cloak. The only way for that gesture to work is for the Federation to prove it's goodwill by denying itself cloaking technology.

You think that peace with Romulus could be attained some other way? You think that hypothetical future lives could be saved if the Federation had refused to give back this stolen technology and looked for some other avenue of peace? Even if such a thing is possible, immediate real lives (not hypothetical future ones) would have been claimed by the war until that next solution was found.

By the TNG-era, countless lives had been saved by the Romulan peace treaty, and Human-Romulan trust was built to the point where Romulus was almost ready to give their cloaking technology to the Federation (not gonna lie, relations were also still a powderkeg, ready to explode into war at the drop of a hat). An ally is worth more than a defeated enemy, and it's certainly worth more than getting defeated yourself.

Pressman's research was a blatant violation of the peace treaty. Pressman might weasel around about it being a "phase", not a "cloak", but it was obvious to Picard and it would certainly have been obvious to the Romulans that the Federation had betrayed the Romulans' trust. "Break in case of emergency"? If the Romulans ever find out you have such a thing, you'll burn their trust forever. If the Romulans had joined the Federation before they discovered the lie, I imagine they would've withdrawn from the Federation. Heck, beyond the usual suspects of Federation enemies who could potentially be stirred up by war, what would happen to the Federation internally? Who negotiated the treaty? Were they Vulcans? I'm sure they'd love to hear that a bunch of rogue humans greedy for new tech shredded the Romulan treaty while Spock was working on Vulcan-Romulan reunification.

Sisko's going to have to take "It's a fake" down with him to his grave. How is Pressman supposed to forever hide the existence of a Federation cloak?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Kirk is a character who will bend the rules because he knows those are the right thing but at the same time will take responsibility for it, knows absurd plans will work (due to some of his friends/crews' ideas), he is very competent, and has some nice foresight. Saying he's bad because "womanizer" is kind of a shallow analysis on him.

 

[Team Filler]

He had the right idea though. That phase cloak technology could've saved countless lives in whatever conflict the Federation might possibly have had in the future...

Should've got Section 31 involved if he wanted to save that cloak.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

DS9 is anti trek (don't think so? ask anyone who came into trek with ds9 and they'll say how they never watched ST prior. It's the same thing with the Abrahms abortions).

Isn't that a tautology? Ask anyone who came into Trek with X, and they'll say how they never watched prior...

 

[Boss Doggie]

Why is DS9 anti trek?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Why is DS9 anti trek?

When it debuted, a lot of long time fans complained that there was no "trek" and that it was dull.

 

[Currygan]

I'm conflicted between Ronald Tracey and Jonathan Archer. the former violated the PD and abandoned his crew, two irreedemable actions that basically strip him from the very title he wears, while Archer is just awful altogether: absolute lack of charisma, no commanding presence, total buffoonery and ignorance when it comes to dealing with other species, - expecially Vulcans -, zero combat skills, and there's the sneaking suspicion he may have gotten his job via nepotism

 

[water_wendi]

When it debuted, a lot of long time fans complained that there was no "trek" and that it was dull.

i remember there being a huge shitstorm because there was no voice over for the intro.

 

[alexandros]

Why isn't nuKirk winning this by a landslide?

 

[Escape Goat]

Why is DS9 anti trek?

Its as as muvh trek as any other series. It didnt take place on a ship but thats not what star trek was about. It dealt with darker themes and portrayed characters with flaws. not everyone in the galaxy had the luxury of being pacifist and self righteous out on the frontier.

Star Trek was about exploring the human condition. Shakespeare was so popular because he explored what it meant to be human. Rodenberry simply set these stories in space. The fact there was no ship wasnt relevant. Kira reeeeally resents Starfleet in the beginning. She undermines Sisko in the first episode. Kira thought Csrdassians, all Cardassians, deserved whatever punishment came theirvway simply becsuse they were Cardassian. She hated which isnt something we saw a main character do in Trek. We see her evolve and overcome her horrific past to see Cardassuans as individuals, not one race deserving of perpetual revenge.

If your Trek is as superficial as simply being a sci fi show taking place on a starship, it is pretty anti Trek.

 

[Herne]

The Captain of the Enterprise B in Generations. That guy was a douche.

He was only that way because he had to look screamingly incompetent next to the great Kirk, who would inevitably save the day.

Enterprise B or C captains probably. They both seemed pretty useless.

What was wrong with Garrett? That she was killed off before she could - as she intended to - take the C back into the time jump thingy to fight the Romulans? Previous to her death she seemed like a strong leader, everyone on her crew wanted to go back in time with her to their certain deaths, and even her injuries couldn't keep her in sickbay long enough to stop her from seeing to her crew and ship.

Harriman may have been written to be so bad that Kirk would seem amazing by comparison, but there was nothing wrong with Garrett that I can see.

 

[Escape Goat]

He was only that way because he had to look screamingly incompetent next to the great Kirk, who would inevitably save the day.



What was wrong with Garrett? That she was killed off before she could - as she intended to - take the C back into the time jump thingy to fight the Romulans? Previous to her death she seemed like a strong leader, everyone on her crew wanted to go back in time with her to their certain deaths, and even her injuries couldn't keep her in sickbay long enough to stop her from seeing to her crew and ship.

Harriman may have been written to be so bad that Kirk would seem amazing by comparison, but there was nothing wrong with Garrett that I can see.

Not really responding directly to you but i think Garrett was one of the last captains from Kirks cowboy diplomacy era. They were more rough and tumble, carrying a phaser in one hand and the Prime Directive in the other. They had only explored about 9% of the galaxy in Kirks time so there was a lot out there they didnt know about.

By time Picard came around theyd explored about 20% of the galaxy. Theyd known decades of peace with the Klingons. They hadnt heard a peep from the Romulans in about as long. No doubt diplomacy was more heavily stressed upon new captains.

 

[DrForester]

Why is DS9 anti trek?

It really goes against Rodenberry's vision of a perfect utopia. It comes down to if that's a good or bad thing. I'd argue that just like with TNG once Gene had less control over the show (and to be honest, his death) DS9 benefited from being "let off the leash". It was a very different type of Trek. I think it was better for it.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Why isn't nuKirk winning this by a landslide?

ST09 doesn't deserve to win anything.

 

[The Technomancer]

It really goes against Rodenberry's vision of a perfect utopia. It comes down to if that's a good or bad thing. I'd argue that just like with TNG once Gene had less control over the show (and to be honest, his death) DS9 benefited from being "let off the leash". It was a very different type of Trek. I think it was better for it.

My issue with DS9 is less the "less utopian" side of Trek that it showed off and more how it solidified the direction of Trek shows going forward as less of an anthology show and more of a weekly drama. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I can also completely recognize that TNG started this trend. But that era of the anthology show, which TOS fell right smack dab in the middle of, is something I'd like to see a return to in todays modern, drama dominated landscape of television (and make no mistake, TOS was absolutely basically anthology fiction with a recurring cast)

Spoiler

yes Black Mirror is awesome. There's just too little of it

 

[Koomaster]

Even though I enjoyed DS9, I think Sisko was the worst out of the main 5. He was always focused on frivolous endeavors and never took his position as Emissary seriously. The Bajorans were a people trying to rebuild their society as well as a people the Federation wants in the alliance. Yet he basically wants to brush them off every chance he gets.

His actions in the episode 'In The Pale Moonlight' alone call into question his moral character as a captain. He let himself be completely manipulated by Garak and the whole thing could have blown up in his face and really pissed off the Romulans.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Did Sisko and Picard have a crossover?

 

[Henchmen21]

Did Sisko and Picard have a crossover?

Yup. In the very first episode of DS9

 

[MC Safety]

Why isn't nuKirk winning this by a landslide?

New Kirk hasn't had the chance to be incompetent as Janeway has.

Plus, he exists in a universe where all it takes to be a starship captain is to pick a fight with the old starship captain.

 

[MrCunningham]

From best to worst:

1 - TV Picard
2 - Shatner movie Kirk
3 - TV Kirk
4 - movie Picard
5 - Sisko
6 - new movie Kirk
7 - Archer
8 - Janeway

I would honestly put movie Picard lower, but otherwise, this is a good list. I actually agree that Shatner movie Kirt is actually better than Shatner TV show Kirt, I ofter found the OG cast to be much more refined in their roles during the original Trek movie era than I did in the TV era. But I honestly found the TNG cast to be a little less likable in the movies than the TV show.

 

[KidGalactus]

Every time Riker is acting captain, he makes a decision which will very likely get everyone killed.

He is the worst.

 

[Sephzilla]

Janeway is easily the worst and it isn't even a contest.

Every time Riker is acting captain, he makes a decision which will very likely get everyone killed.

He is the worst.

Best of Both Worlds says otherwise

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Every time Riker is acting captain, he makes a decision which will very likely get everyone killed.

He is the worst.

uhhhh