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So With Tom Brady Winning His Fifth Super Bowl....

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ironcreed said:
I would honestly just retire on such a win, were I Tom. Imagine having that SB to cap off an already legendary career. I mean, he is 40 and has won five super bowls. What more does he need to prove?
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Why retire now when you can win another 2-3 rings? The team is young and talented. And he will get a possible healthy Gronk back next year. There is no one to challenge them in the AFC for the foreseeable future anyways. Brady is the best of all time in his sport now. But a few more rings would have him start surpassing the likes Jordan and Gretzky. He had too good and too efficient of a season to just call it quits. It makes no sense.
 
dave is ok said:
Because both arguments are overblown sensationalist garbage used only to try and discredit the man or his accomplishments.
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Bringing up cheating is sensationalist?

We get taught at a young age that cheating is wrong. But I guess our preschool teachers were making mountains out of molehills.

Also, explain to me how openly supporting a president who banned an entire group of minorities from entering the country (among the other things he's done) is a sensationalist topic.
 
ironcreed said:
I would honestly just retire on such a win, were I Tom. Imagine having that SB to cap off an already legendary career. I mean, he is 40 and has won five rings. What more does he need to prove?
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Why would you retire from something you enjoy doing more than anything else?
 
OK, maybe he and Belicheck is the cheating GOATs, but at the same time, everyone else on that team (historically during Brady) is not. They are all coat tail riders, especially that McGinnisest, but also Welker, Wilford, Brown, Edelman, Vrabel, and so on. Nobody else on that team deserves Hall of Fame, cause Brady and Belichick did all the work.

And I'm sticking too this...cheaters.
 
jWILL253 said:
Bringing up cheating is sensationalist?

We get taught at a young age that cheating is wrong. But I guess our preschool teachers were making mountains out of molehills.

Also, explain to me how openly supporting a president who banned an entire group of minorities from entering the country (among the other things he's done) is a sensationalist topic.
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1. They couldn't prove anything and admitted as much in their report.
2. Tom Brady has never openly endorsed Donald Trump. They are friends but he stays out of politics.

Again, sensationalist garbage.
 
He loves the game and can still play at a high level. No need to retire. He'll enjoy these years knowing he has nothing left to prove, and I'll catch every game I can
 
Tom Penny said:
Why would you retire from something you enjoy doing more than anything else?
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Because football is a rough sport and at 40 he is the GOAT with 5 rings. I am just saying that I would be beyond content were it me. But no, I don't foresee him retiring for at least a few more seasons.
 
pa22word said:
The overall game isn't really that important. What's important is that at do or die time he drove 91 yards, then got the 2pt. Followed that up by marching straight down the field again in ot to win the game.

That's what makes him the goat.
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The overall game IS important when the discussion is about being the GOAT. Those drives only matter in that they won the game. But you can't ignore 3 quarters of poor performance if you're going to have a serious discussion about legacy instead of a gloat-fest.


Dreams-Visions said:
Can you define these expectations?

Expectation of victory? Check.

Expectation of high level play? NFL record passing yards, completions to a single receiver, attempts, game-tying drive, game winning drive in the first OT in the history of the sport. 120QBR in Q4 and presumably that high in OT. O line let him down in the first half.

He just killed a team that knew he was going to throw it every down. 62 attempts and only 1 INT.

Expectation of more hardware? Another MVP trophy and another Championship ring.

What expectation are you referring to that he did not meet?



mmm I see. I must have been thinking of someone else.
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I pointed out the expectations in the very post you quoted. Consistency. Good choices. Good throws.

The O line let him down the whole game but he didn't have that 4th qtr performance throughout the whole game. He didn't make any particularly great throws either. So those numbers have more to do with the Falcons secondary collapsing than anything else.

I give him a ton of credit for mental fortitude given that deficit he was working against but that game absolutely lacked consistency on his end and that hurts the GOAT argument.
 
dave is ok said:
2. Tom Brady has never openly endorsed Donald Trump. They are friends but he stays out of politics.

Again, sensationalist garbage.
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Trump has used Brady's support of him, even if it's more personal support rather than political support (which would still be suspect as fuck), as a tool to attract people to to his campaign. And even if he didn't openly support his campaign, Belichick actually did endorse him in a letter.

Face it. Your QB & HC's histories and political affiliations turn off a lot of people. The political shit specifically turns off even more people than the cheating does. ESPN had an article the other day on how Brady's affiliation turns off minority fans specifically.
 
lol the Patriots cheating thing reminds me of Hillary's emails and Benghazi, it sounds terrible on the surface but once you look into it the more it becomes a big pile of nothing. Ya'll wonder how people can be stupid enough to believe the Fox News drivel, look no further. Blind hate for a team/opposing political party leads to believing all sorts of silly nonsense cus they're eeeeevil~!
 
jWILL253 said:
Trump has used Brady's support of him, even if it's more personal support rather than political support (which would still be suspect as fuck), as a tool to attract people to to his campaign. And even if he didn't openly support his campaign, Belichick actually did endorse him in a letter.

Face it. Your QB & HC's histories and political affiliations turn off a lot of people. The political shit specifically turns off even more people than the cheating does. ESPN had an article the other day on how Brady's affiliation turns off minority fans specifically.
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Anyone watching any great athlete and giving a shit about tenuous political affiliations probably would find any other reason to hate him anyway. If it wasn't Trump we'd have people saying he deserted Bridget Moynahan with his child or something.

The truth is that he's the absolute best at what he does, and people who see the same team winning over and over again over the course of 16 years will find any reason or excuse to try and discredit that.
 
jWILL253 said:
Trump has used Brady's support of him, even if it's more personal support rather than political support (which would still be suspect as fuck), as a tool to attract people to to his campaign. And even if he didn't openly support his campaign, Belichick actually did endorse him in a letter.

Face it. Your QB & HC's histories and political affiliations turn off a lot of people. The political shit specifically turns off even more people than the cheating does. ESPN had an article the other day on how Brady's affiliation turns off minority fans specifically.
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This is basically parroting the "But his letters" argument, lmao you guys are a bunch of clowns.
 
ch4fx_ said:
Belichick isn't Brady.
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Even if he did, even if they BOTH did, even if they went out and campaigned for the guy, it has nothing to do with his on the field production. They rule the NFL right now. Republican, Democrat, Independent, whatever. They're the best coach/QB combo ever, and each are the best at their position ever.
 
ironcreed said:
Because football is a rough sport and at 40 he is the GOAT with 5 rings. I am just saying that I would be beyond content were it me. But no, I don't foresee him retiring for at least a few more seasons.
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I think he wants to pass Peyton Manning in career yardage and TDs. Brees will probably end up with more than both but they never had a rivalry.
 
Kite said:
lol the Patriots cheating thing reminds me of Hillary's emails and Benghazi, it sounds terrible on the surface but once you look into it the more it becomes a big pile of nothing. Ya'll wonder how people can be stupid enough to believe the Fox News drivel, look no further. Blind hate for a team/opposing political party leads to believing all sorts of silly nonsense cus they're eeeeevil~!
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This is exactly it. People like to repeat over and over how they got caught taping practices (they didn't) or how it was proven they deflated footballs (it wasn't). Politics is as much a team sport and in both people turn off their brains so they can talk shit.
 
Kite said:
lol the Patriots cheating thing reminds me of Hillary's emails and Benghazi, it sounds terrible on the surface but once you look into it the more it becomes a big pile of nothing. Ya'll wonder how people can be stupid enough to believe the Fox News drivel, look no further. Blind hate for a team/opposing political party leads to believing all sorts of silly nonsense cus they're eeeeevil~!
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I'm a Yankees fan so I'm used to it.
 
Nope.

I don't correlate greatness by number of Super Bowls. I go by the QB's individual performance, not by how his whole team performs in a long span. While Brady is no doubt top 5 of all time, he doesn't top Peyton Manning, Montana, or Unitas for me.
 
Kite said:
lol the Patriots cheating thing reminds me of Hillary's emails and Benghazi, it sounds terrible on the surface but once you look into it the more it becomes a big pile of nothing. Ya'll wonder how people can be stupid enough to believe the Fox News drivel, look no further. Blind hate for a team/opposing political party leads to believing all sorts of silly nonsense cus they're eeeeevil~!
Click to expand...

They were caught filming the sidelines and were fined for it. How is that like Hilary's emails?
 
bachikarn said:
They were caught filming the sidelines and were fined for it. How is that like Hilary's emails?
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They were caught filming the sidelines in a specific location they weren't allowed to film from. Getting mad about it is complete nonsense. They were punished because they technically broke the rule but fans looking at it like blatant cheating are ridiculous.
 
KHarvey16 said:
This is exactly it. People like to repeat over and over how they got caught taping practices (they didn't) or how it was proven they deflated footballs (it wasn't). Politics is as much a team sport and in both people turn off their brains so they can talk shit.
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The Patriots did cheat, but they win, and winners write history. The NFL has good reason to sweep these things under the rug and move on. That's the paradigm no matter what game you looking at.
 
I'm really glad the overarching narrative with the pats is that they are indeed cheaters and have been caught and punished multiple times.

Never let them forget it. History won't.
 
Kite said:
lol the Patriots cheating thing reminds me of Hillary's emails and Benghazi, it sounds terrible on the surface but once you look into it the more it becomes a big pile of nothing. Ya'll wonder how people can be stupid enough to believe the Fox News drivel, look no further. Blind hate for a team/opposing political party leads to believing all sorts of silly nonsense cus they're eeeeevil~!
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Yeah, and the thing that's particularly worrisome is that the Patriots = Cheaters false narratives are mostly parroted by people on the left. Which shows that the left is just as susceptible as the right when it comes to falling for fake news which is designed to push a particular narrative regardless of the reality of the situation.
 
thefro said:
Manning's still better.

Brady is basically the Barry Bonds of Football, except his coach/GM/Goodell all help him cheat.
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I can't ignore the Pats recording teams practices. C'mon now, that's like going into a test with all the answers. How many years were they doing this before they got caught? Some of those Superbowls need an asterisk
 
ThomasAnderson said:
I can't ignore the Pats recording teams practices. C'mon now, that's like going into a test with all the answers. How many years were they doing this before they got caught? Some of those Superbowls need an asterisk
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They didnt record practices (myth). They recorded during games (legal) from a position that was newly made illegal starting that game
 
If you want to say Tom Brady has the most prolifically great career, that's fine. He's had five* Super Bowl winning seasons**, out of seven*** total appearances, more than any other quarterback.

* Two Super Bowl wins came at the end of seasons with confirmed cheating.
** He did not play the full regular season for one of those years, as he was suspended for four games for cheating.
*** Both Super Bowl losses come against Eli Manning*
* Manning leads their head to head series 3-2*
*One of Brady's wins occurred while Manning had the 32nd-ranked defense in the league.

He can't be the greatest of all time because he isn't better than Eli Manning.
 
KHarvey16 said:
They were caught filming the sidelines in a specific location they weren't allowed to film from. Getting mad about it is complete nonsense. They were punished because they technically broke the rule but fans looking at it like blatant cheating are ridiculous.
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Fair enough.

I honestly think most NFL teams cheat (as do college teams).
 
Jest Chillin said:
The overall game IS important when the discussion is about being the GOAT. Those drives only matter in that they won the game. But you can't ignore 3 quarters of poor performance if you're going to have a serious discussion about legacy instead of a gloat-fest.




I pointed out the expectations in the very post you quoted. Consistency. Good choices. Good throws.

The O line let him down the whole game but he didn't have that 4th qtr performance throughout the whole game. He didn't make any particularly great throws either. So those numbers have more to do with the Falcons secondary collapsing than anything else.

I give him a ton of credit for mental fortitude given that deficit he was working against but that game absolutely lacked consistency on his end and that hurts the GOAT argument.
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That second to last paragraph is an atrocious reason.

Nobody sustains 200 yards/quarter for an entire game. Literally nobody has ever done it. And it's not like he played BAD the first three quarters. His receivers dropped a lot of well placed balls, his o line was giving him no time, his backfield was giving him NOTHING of a running game, and Atlanta was playing REALLY good defense that first half. If your definition of best is to consistently hit the highest highs the guy has ever hit, you're looking at it wrong.
 
I have yet to see Sparkle Motion post in one of the Super Bowl related threads with something that has anything to do with football
 
Megalosaro said:
They didnt record practices (myth). They recorded during games (legal) from a position that was newly made illegal starting that game
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Yea. It's even right here in the Wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy

The 2007 New England Patriots videotaping controversy, widely dubbed "Spygate",[1][2] refers to an incident during the National Football League's (NFL) 2007 season when the New England Patriots were disciplined by the league for videotaping New York Jets' defensive coaches' signals from an unauthorized location during a September 9, 2007 game. Videotaping opposing coaches is not illegal in the NFL de jure, but there are designated areas allowed by the league to do such taping. Because the Patriots were instead videotaping the Jets' coaches from their own sideline during the game, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell deemed it to be in violation of league rules, stating that the act represented a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid long-standing rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field. After an investigation, the NFL fined Patriots head coach Bill Belichick $500,000 (the maximum allowed by the league and the largest fine ever imposed on a coach in the league's 87-year history) for his role in the incident, fined the Patriots $250,000, and docked the team their original first-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft which would have been the 31st pick of the draft.[3] The fine garnered significant media attention for being the "maximum amount" an individual could be fined.
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...
 
psykomyko said:
Nope.

I don't correlate greatness by number of Super Bowls. I go by the QB's individual performance, not by how his whole team performs in a long span. While Brady is no doubt top 5 of all time, he doesn't top Peyton Manning, Montana, or Unitas for me.
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Actually by your logic he passes Montana and Unitas. Brady has more passing yards, more touchdown passes, higher completions percentage and a higher passer rating.
 
jWILL253 said:
Bringing up cheating is sensationalist?

We get taught at a young age that cheating is wrong. But I guess our preschool teachers were making mountains out of molehills.

Also, explain to me how openly supporting a president who banned an entire group of minorities from entering the country (among the other things he's done) is a sensationalist topic.
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Enough with this narrative that Brady is this mega Trump supporter.
 
As someone who has disliked Brady for the better part of his entire career, this was one hell of a game and I have the utmost admiration for him now. You don't watch the guy who has been riddled with controversy for the past year or two get sacked 5 times, come from a historic deficit, keep the sidelines in check and lead his team to a clean win and reduce it to "nah, fuck him." That was just as unbelievable of a moment as we have seen in the past 12 months. We've had a great 12 months in sports between Brady, Federer, LeBron, and the Cubs. Shit, let's enjoy it while the moment remains fresh. Good shit.
 
Moaradin said:
I'm not big into Football but the record speaks for itself, yes?
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Loads of asterisks, but none of them meaningfully impact his GOAT status.

And I am not a fan. But I can't take that way from him so I'll continue to talk about more important stuff like his Uggs and his vanity and his pouty expressions.
 
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