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SOE dirty tricks to keep subscribers on Everquest & Star Wars Galaxies

CaptainABAB

Member
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/20/tech/gamecore/main1146894_page5.shtml

When SOE took full control over EverQuest, they would release expansions 60% complete and not tell the customer. People would go out and purchase expansions for EverQuest (More content) at $29.99. 6 months later, using subscription revenue, SOE would actually finish the 40% of the content of the expansion that consumers already paid for.

Also good is the part about SOE lying about a quest that didn't exist to keep people online!
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
would love to see a real write up on this. Please contact me if you have any questions. How a class action lawsuit has not been filed yet is amazing to me.

No kidding. Pretty screwed up
 

Andy787

Banned
When SOE took full control over EverQuest, they would release expansions 60% complete and not tell the customer.
Maybe I'm not understanding this, but, uh... Verant (the original developers of EverQuest) is SoE..
 

zabuni

Member
Old news.

Hell, I think the Fiery Avenger quest was unfinished in 2000 or so.

Edit:

Verant was the original. They were a splinter of a sony group, 989 studios maybe? They broke off, made eq, and just as they were coming out, got rebought by sony.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Yeah I'm not entirely sure what he's talking about there with regards to SoE taking over.....

I assume the reason there's no class action lawsuit is the EULA, there's always a way to hid behind that.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
I can confirm this, every single EQ expansion would have a raid encounter about half way through that was purposefully bugged to the point of being unbeatable until they managed to patch in the fixes for the rest of the content, and if through some miracle you managed to down one of the cockblock mobs it would drop nothing but cloth armor due to having no itemization completed.
 
MAN, they really fucked up SWG. Good thing I stopped playing 2.5 years ago. No there's an example of when an MMO goes very, very bad and no one in charge has a fucking clue.
 

sky

Member
We were given explocit instructions that if we zoned into those areas, we would be kicked from the guide program. Well, I zoned into those areas the day of retail release. And what I saw was amazing. I saw 5 completely barren areas, with strange "developer boxes" everywhere, without a good majority of the environment even done for the zones themselves. I know first hand that the zones were not completed.

Wow... forced episodic content, for full price!
These types of stories are so interesting. Such dirty tactics... imagine searching in-game for months, for quests that haven't been implented :lol...

It's sorta clever in a way...
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
AndoCalrissian said:
That sucks. In situations like these I like to look at how thoroughly SoE is being thrashed by WoW.

Which is sad since WoW has so many issues still
(not saying EQ2 was not below average when it came out, but it's improvements have been numerous)
 

Brannon

Member
Amazing. If I had the ability to become even a bit addicted to MMORPGs I'd be even more pissed than I am now. That's just awesome.
 

zabuni

Member
Mejilan said:
Has SWG been out that long?! And what exactly did they do with it?


They did a real number on SWG. SWG started out as a crafting heavy, "world" type game. No real giant dragon type mobs to kill, more in the vein of creating houses and communities. For example, it had a "dancer" class, whose purpose was to dance in cantinas to heal "mind wounds".

Many hated this, but other flocked to it. Mainly roleplayers. They liked to build communities, run shops, and dance.

With the advent of WoW, and the general un-Star Warsness of running a shop, Lucasarts wanted huge changes. So they remade the game into a crappy EQ clone.

RPGers, being the drama lovers they are, had a fit. Filling the boards with posts, and quiting in mass. And they rushed the remaking, so it sucked ass.
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
That sounds like the Everquest I knew. The best part is when an expansion was incomplete, instead of not having the content, they made it impossible. Sup Rathe Council and Uqua.
 

stressboy

Member
On EQ, didn't they delay Omens of War because their previous expansion, Gates of Discord, was still not finished months after its release? I remember hearing about that shortly after I left the game for AO.

Never going back to EQ or any other SOE game again. City of Heroes/Villains is my current MMORPG obsession.
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
stressboy said:
On EQ, didn't they delay Omens of War because their previous expansion, Gates of Discord, was still not finished months after its release? I remember hearing about that shortly after I left the game for AO.

Never going back to EQ or any other SOE game again. City of Heroes/Villains is my current MMORPG obsession.
They delayed it a few months after it was announced. There was a massive outcry from the EQ community that another expansion had been announced and no one had still beat Uqua. Personally, when they announced Omens, I quit that day.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
This sounds a lot like what SE is doing with FFXI. They release a expansion and not all of the expansion is finish or accessible until months later. Then another expansion is coming.
 

Ponn

Banned
Releasiing unfinished and buggy PC games??!! I am so shocked to hear this!

Seriously though, this is so commonplace and why I have pretty much given up on PC gaming. In a sense it's why I have more respect for console game makers. They have to ship a complete game, they don't have a chance to "patch" it after release. Well, at least they used to, that's why i'm crying for my last bastion of console gaming and the influx of "windows updating" in consoles of recent (see 360 BC and dashboard patches).

The EQ expansions got way out of control and I quit right before the Luclin expanision. I thought expansions were bullshit to be charged for to begin with but the fact that they were always buggy pieces of crap anyways made it worse.
 

Andrew2

Banned
Onix said:
Sony Pictures should just kill them off and give the IP's to SCE.

SCE(well SCEA) already own EverQuest. EQ is a property of SCEA, not SOE. All SOE does is manage the game; anything EQ-related even Champions of Norrath is technically owned SCEA.

As for what SOE is doing, technically its pretty legal and considered fair for what they're doing.

Own a Apple computer or PC with Mac OS or Windows pre-installed? Technically, those pre-installed versions are incomplete versions of the operating system and in alot of cases they're missing the critical system tools you'll find in the retail version. The real "full" versions are doing nothing but sitting on retail shelves.

As for SOE if this is true, they're doing nothing but technically working within the boundries of whats considered fair for a business. Why CBSNew blowing this out proportion I don't know.
 

Andrew2

Banned
Speaking of SOE, even NCsoft does it with Lineage II. In fact when you look at the scope of the problem, MMO's are technically unfinished games and the expansions are nothing but what should've been.
 

mollipen

Member
Andrew2 said:
Own a Apple computer or PC with Mac OS or Windows pre-installed? Technically, those pre-installed versions are incomplete versions of the operating system and in alot of cases they're missing the critical system tools you'll find in the retail version. The real "full" versions are doing nothing but sitting on retail shelves.

Wait... what? I've owned Macs since the Mac Plus, and I have no idea what you're talking about. I've never, ever purchased a Mac where the version of the OS on it was less than the version you could go out and purchase in a store. Mac OSX has always been the same thing, unless you want to talk about a Mac not coming with XCode, X11, or whatnot installed, and those things are on the install discs you get with the machine. Even back during the Performa days and whatnot, the installed version of Mac OS was never crippled or missing important pieces.

Now, if you mean how an OS comes out, and then point updates or service packs for it come out later, that's a different matter.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Comparing it to an OS is a terrible example,

comparing it to nearly every damn MMORPG out there, yeah that works :lol
 
Ponn01 said:
Releasiing unfinished and buggy PC games??!! I am so shocked to hear this!

Seriously though, this is so commonplace and why I have pretty much given up on PC gaming. In a sense it's why I have more respect for console game makers. They have to ship a complete game, they don't have a chance to "patch" it after release. Well, at least they used to, that's why i'm crying for my last bastion of console gaming and the influx of "windows updating" in consoles of recent (see 360 BC and dashboard patches).

The EQ expansions got way out of control and I quit right before the Luclin expanision. I thought expansions were bullshit to be charged for to begin with but the fact that they were always buggy pieces of crap anyways made it worse.

GTFO. At least PC games can be patched.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I was under the impression that expansions for MMORPG's were never released "Finished". I know the first FFXI expansion was not finished when released in Japan (Was finsihed by the US release). The 2nd FFXI expansion took about a year to be completed once the release happened. In both cases, you could only progress to a certain point in the storyline until they added more .
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
zabuni said:
They did a real number on SWG. SWG started out as a crafting heavy, "world" type game. No real giant dragon type mobs to kill, more in the vein of creating houses and communities. For example, it had a "dancer" class, whose purpose was to dance in cantinas to heal "mind wounds".

Many hated this, but other flocked to it. Mainly roleplayers. They liked to build communities, run shops, and dance.

With the advent of WoW, and the general un-Star Warsness of running a shop, Lucasarts wanted huge changes. So they remade the game into a crappy EQ clone.

RPGers, being the drama lovers they are, had a fit. Filling the boards with posts, and quiting in mass. And they rushed the remaking, so it sucked ass.

Wow, that is SO fucked up.
 

Scott

Member
To everybody trying to say that every MMORPG on the market does this: there's a big difference from keeping content of the expansion locked/inaccessible, and the content not even existing in the first place.

All of the people that are pointing at Final Fantasy XI are guilty of mixing the two up. Both Rise of the Zilart & Chains of Promathia were completed before shipping (as complete as MMO content can come, at least, considering things are always being tweaked), only Square Enix slowly unlocked things via the bi-monthly updates. They do this for varying reasons, among which would be to keep as balanced a playing field as they possibly could, to keep fresh content hitting the game up until the next expansion was ready to hit, to prevent power-gamers from burning through the content in a matter of weeks and quitting, etc...

So while I can't speak for the Lineage series, or most other MMOs given my lack of experience, I have to say that the accusations that "Final Fantasy XI does the same thing!" are totally baseless. After all, Square Enix isn't sitting in their little workshop, counting up their subscriptions and going "OK, we finally made 100,000$... We can finally afford to add the Diablos summon!," despite whatever you guys would like to believe.

If you need proof: did you ever happen to notice that the updates that unlock CoP content, are roughly the same size as the updates that hit after RoZ was fully unlocked, and before CoP was released? You know, the updates that contained absolutely no expansion content what-so-ever? Yeah...
 

Jewbacca

Banned
So EA fucks everyone over Daily in Ultima online... people paid 20 bucks for a 40 meg patch. give me a fucking break.
 

Azrael

Member
If you need proof: did you ever happen to notice that the updates that unlock CoP content, are roughly the same size as the updates that hit after RoZ was fully unlocked, and before CoP was released? You know, the updates that contained absolutely no expansion content what-so-ever? Yeah...

Those updates did contain expansion data though. The updates that unlocked Sea included the graphic and sound data for all the Sea mobs. Those patches weren't huge, but they were still 1.5-2x the size of a normal patch. It stands to reason that Sea wasn't finished at the time CoP shipped.
 

_Angelus_

Banned
Eh this thread sucks. Now if the story had broke that Microsoft was involved we'd have been by page 20 by now. Gaf is like that.
 

nubbe

Member
SWG must have been 0.5% done because that game has had more extreme makeovers than any MMO I know of.

AND NONE WAS GOOD :mad:
 

Scott

Member
Azrael said:
Those updates did contain expansion data though. The updates that unlocked Sea included the graphic and sound data for all the Sea mobs. Those patches weren't huge, but they were still 1.5-2x the size of a normal patch. It stands to reason that Sea wasn't finished at the time CoP shipped.
If I'm not mistaken, that zone was simply unlocked, no? Maybe that zone wasn't even originally meant to have combat (I haven't been to it, so I honestly don't know if that's possible)? Or maybe Square Enix cheapened out and originally filled the zone with pre-existing mobs? Or maybe the development team had spent all their time creating blue-tinted sea bunnies (!), only for the director to turn them down, and have the game ship without any mobs in that zone at all? I really don't know where I'm going with this... ;)

Anyway, it figures that I'd make a post speaking in absolutes, only to have somebody find an example that goes "Hey, they may have done it here!" Seems like it may be an exception to the rule, unless my asinine idea of sea bunnies is true!

...Yeah, I don't think that's very likely. ;)

I'm curious, though, when were these "1.5-2x the size of a normal patch" updates? I don't remember any varying that greatly in size in the patch notes, or even in overall download time... Only thing I've really seen fluctuate a lot is the amount of files within an update, but that's not really indicative of much. Care to clue me in?
 

Andrew2

Banned
Suikoguy said:
Comparing it to an OS is a terrible example,

comparing it to nearly every damn MMORPG out there, yeah that works :lol

Comparing how a MMO is distributed is perfectly sound since its like an computer OS.

MMO's are software. In that case, its perfectly legal to sell software no matter whether its games or general software in a manner as though its incomplete only to sell a complete edition of that very piece of software at a later date.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
In Both FFXi expnasion there were entire regions that were not completed.

For Rise of Zilart the entire Tu'Lia (Usually refered to as "Sky") area was non-existant until a later update, not mearly unaccessable.

For Chains of Promathia the entire Lumoria region (Usually refered to as "Sea") was non-existant. In fact, one cut scene in the storyline showed a quick picture of the sea region, prior to it's release. This was a pre-rendered video of the area.
 
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