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[lsslave]

You're lucky to not get many bugs from Obsidian's games :lol

Ironically enough; while neither AP nor New Vegas have shown me any bugs I've had many MANY quest chains break on my in Fallout 3 and Oblivion glitched out on my a few times majorly.

Dragon Age we won't talk about...



ANYHOW

More on topic to the OP; if you're not much of a PC gamer I recommend you move from F3 to New Vegas; it is drastically better. The beginning is a bit slower because you don't get hand-held into the game; and the choices you make about your character are INFINITELY more important at the beginning (you can't min/max and you can't max out everything either; you have to REALLY focus on a playstyle!)

Also; Alpha Protocol is pretty damn good for someone new to WRPGs; it is an RPG shooter (your stats actually matter! Its NOT a Bioware TPS/RPG; its a stat based shooter) because its simple and can be played partially actioney (stats/etc. matter)

PC wise I can't recommend Planescape Torment enough; I never beat it but god DAMN does that game have writing! If only the gameplay would back it up it would be up there in my top 5 games!

 

[jtb]

The gateway drug for most of the people I know was Knights of the Old Republic - has graphics that aren't complete shit, isn't completely overrun with bugs, hit's a nice balance between the OMGWTF overload of tons of inventory juggling and combat stuff and the extremely story-heavy RPGs from the infinity engine. Go further in one direction and you get stuff like Mass Effect, go further in the other direction and you get Morrowind or Planescape: Torment. KoTOR hits a nice balance between these ideologies. Plus, it's Star Wars. And it has one of the better known plots in video games. What's not to like?

 

[HK-47]

I'm not new to the genre though. I've played numerous WRPGs since the original Xbox came out.



So which other WRPGs would you recommend for PC?

Well the old isometric stuff might not be the best place to go right away. The DnD rules in stuff like Baldur's Gate and Icewind can be confusing at first. SS2 is a great game with a great integration of story and gameplay and a real sense of being in the world (which makes the horror that much more horrifying) but its a bitch to get running right now on PC. Deus Ex is similar to Bloodlines. Its probably offers more choice but some of the combat elements are pretty weak (this is a theme in hybrids, though if you like the style it will be overlooked). Deus Ex's story is a bit more hokey and the VA is so bad its hilarious, but it does a relatively good job of letting you play the game in various ways.

I'd say also give the Witcher a try since its more action based and its combat is easy to grasp. It does have a slow start though and its a bit graphics intensive. If you want really good turn based combat than playing Temple of Elemental Evil is a good choice, though youll need to mod it and there is a bit of a curve with the D&D rules. Knights of the Chalice would be a good pick up if you like ToEE focus on combat.

Also you might try Anachronox if you can find it. Its often called a JRPG posing as a WRPG. Or you could try Wizardry 8 and its ilk if you like dungeon crawling and lots of fighting.

Or play Planescape, which is basically the best text adventure ever created.

 

[EatChildren]

Well the old isometric stuff might not be the best place to go right away. The DnD rules in stuff like Baldur's Gate and Icewind can be confusing at first. SS2 is a great game with a great integration of story and gameplay and a real sense of being in the world (which makes the horror that much more horrifying) but its a bitch to get running right now on PC. Deus Ex is similar to Bloodlines. Its probably offers more choice but some of the combat elements are pretty weak (this is a theme in hybrids, though if you like the style it will be overlooked). Deus Ex's story is a bit more hokey and the VA is so bad its hilarious, but it does a relatively good job of letting you play the game in various ways.

I'd say also give the Witcher a try since its more action based and its combat is easy to grasp. It does have a slow start though and its a bit graphics intensive. If you want really good turn based combat than playing Temple of Elemental Evil is a good choice, though youll need to mod it and there is a bit of a curve with the D&D rules. Knights of the Chalice would be a good pick up if you like ToEE focus on combat.

Also you might try Anachronox if you can find it. Its often called a JRPG posing as a WRPG.

Or play Planescape, which is basically the best text adventure ever created.

I find your utter lack of fanatical, biased praise for Arcanum whenever WRPGs are discussed appalling to say in the least.

 

[HK-47]

I find your utter lack of fanatical, biased praise for Arcanum whenever WRPGs are discussed appalling to say in the least.

He'll get lost in Arcanum and its horrible UI, probably. I'd do Fallout 1 or 2 before Arcanum.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I SHOULD be able to enjoy Oblivion and fallout 3. I love the idea of being dropped into a world with exploration and loot.

Sorry if this will be seen as trolling, but your two examples are terrible wRPGs. Fallout 3 is called "Oblivion with guns" for a reason, and both are examples of sandbox-style gameplay. Bethesda's idea for an RPG has always been huge world, with great pieces like books, and lore, but lacking in general story department.

What wRPGs did different than jRPGs is stories and character development - as some mentioned you might be better off playing some D&D games. Check Planescape:Torment, Baldur's Gate 1&2. If you love them, and want more gameplay like that/less story try Icewind Dale 1&2. There's also Arcanum, also a great game. Most of them are at GOG.com for 5.99$.

 

[EatChildren]

He'll get lost in Arcanum and its horrible UI, probably. I'd do Fallout 1 or 2 before Arcanum.

So what if half the game is spent in the character spreadsheet. That's the point maaan.

 

[AKingNamedPaul]

I felt the same way you do. Then I gave Fallout 3 a try. For the first 5 hrs. I was like "Why the hell am I playing this." I soldiered through. Then something just clicked. I felt like I finally understood what the game was trying to do. I really enjoyed it and even more so the second time through.

I am playing NV now and its more Fallout 3 with some tweaks. I think you will like it in the end just try and make it to the end.

Exactly what I needed to hear.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Go back and play real RPGs like Baldur's Gate II instead of the watered down stuff you get nowadays.

 

[Danne-Danger]

I love the idea of being dropped into a world with exploration and loot.

Say hello to your new best game:

Wizardry 8

 

[peakish]

So what if half the game is spent in the character spreadsheet. That's the point maaan.

Well it's true, Fallout is easy peasy to get into and offers the same stuff on a smaller scale. Plus with awesomely cool death sprites to satisfy the most picky gamer.

Fallout first, then Arcanum I say! Love them.

Go back and play real RPGs like Baldur's Gate II instead of the watered down stuff you get nowadays.

Forgot about this, it doesn't offer much character freedom but has a huge world to explore with some good writing (Irenicus is the man!). The times before Bioware got lame

The gateway drug for most of the people I know was Knights of the Old Republic - has graphics that aren't complete shit, isn't completely overrun with bugs, hit's a nice balance between the OMGWTF overload of tons of inventory juggling and combat stuff and the extremely story-heavy RPGs from the infinity engine. Go further in one direction and you get stuff like Mass Effect, go further in the other direction and you get Morrowind or Planescape: Torment. KoTOR hits a nice balance between these ideologies. Plus, it's Star Wars. And it has one of the better known plots in video games. What's not to like?

Well it's fucking boring. /vocal but correct minority

 

[Boss Doggie]

WIZARDRY 8!

 

[faridmon]

Gothic 1 and 2 are just bloody amzing games. play them.
Thats all from me.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Bethesda RPGs are full of shitty rules, like invincible characters, so play something like New Vegas instead.

Those shitty rules prevent you from killing important quest characters, which would make it impossible to finish the game or at least your current quests.

I'm a huge fan of first halves of Bethesda's RPGs. Once you get to a certain level and discover all types of quests, all types of locations and all possible activities, they become a slow grind. I still love them, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

I also like RPGs with a more focused story, like BioWare's, but they're usually lacking in other areas. Even Deus Ex, which might be the best game I've ever played, worn out its welcome around the 15 hour mark.

I'm not big on JRPGs, with the exception of the Shining Force series.

 

[Erasus]

Play Dragon Age!

 

[EatChildren]

Those shitty rules prevent you from killing important quest characters, which would make it impossible to finish the game or at least your current quests.

Yeaaah, and again, games like Fallout and Arcanum, and even New Vegas if I have my information correct, have main quests built in a way that allows you to complete them without having to preserve the life of every character.

Its not impossible.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Yeaaah, and again, games like Fallout and Arcanum, and even New Vegas if I have my information correct, have main quests built in a way that allows you to complete them without having to preserve the life of every character.

Its not impossible.

It's been a while since I played Fallout, but I'm pretty sure you couldn't kill everyone there either. Other RPGs usually give you a lot less freedom than Bethesda's, so complaining about certain restrictions - and every game is bound to have some restrictions - is a bit silly. There are other, much more important areas in which Bethesda's games should be improved.

 

[Danne-Danger]

It's been a while since I played Fallout, but I'm pretty sure you couldn't kill everyone there either.

You couldn't kill the overseer in Vault 13, but that's it as far as I know. Maybe that spirit guy in 2 was invincible as well, but I don't think I ever tried to kill him.

The rest is fair game.

 

[Amneisac]

I can say as someone who grew up on JRPGs and also loved KOTOR (when it was new) Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout NV, etc., that it's going to be really tough for someone to get into these old WRPGs you guys are mentioning.

Gothic I and II are basically impossible to enjoy at this point if you don't have nostalgia going for you. The controls, graphics and UI are so dated that playing it feels like work. I'll admit I haven't tried Planescape: Torment yet (even though GAF won't stop jacking that game off), but I can only imagine it'd be a similar problem with that game. WRPGs are more about tech. than art and they don't age very well.

I'd stick with more of the recent WRPG entries mentioned in this thread (The Witcher, etc.).

 

[peakish]

I can say as someone who grew up on JRPGs and also loved KOTOR (when it was new) Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout NV, etc., that it's going to be really tough for someone to get into these old WRPGs you guys are mentioning.

Gothic I and II are basically impossible to enjoy at this point if you don't have nostalgia going for you. The controls, graphics and UI are so dated that playing it feels like work. I'll admit I haven't tried Planescape: Torment yet (even though GAF won't stop jacking that game off), but I can only imagine it'd be a similar problem with that game. WRPGs are more about tech. than art and they don't age very well.

I'd stick with more of the recent WRPG entries mentioned in this thread (The Witcher, etc.).

They age as well as most PC games I'd say, but most of them had clumsy interfaces and gameplay even considering when they were released, including the Gothic series (perhaps especially that series since the interface is so polarizing). Compared to the relatively straightforward classic JRPG titles it's quite a difference.

There seemed to be many in the Planescape thread enjoying it for the first time btw.

 

[Azih]

You know I'm not sure that jumping right into the deep end of the pool with games like Fallout and Arcanum is the best of ideas. Their UIs are pretty obtuse and they are pretty damn ugly to boot. It took until the 360 for Western RPGs striving for realistic worlds and characters to start looking better than stylized Japanese ones. (Don't get me wrong I love the classics but even Baldurs Gate II doesn't look nice compared to the clean artistry of JRPGs of that era). Also the older games don't give a shit about easing you into anything. Some character builds are just much easier than others.

I'd say KOTOR for Bioware style (strong directed plot, decent characters, balanced gameplay, DIALOGUE TREES, some sort of alignment system)

Vampire Bloodlines for Deus Ex style (FPS style gameplay with RPG stats and progression, incredibly different combat and world traversal depending on how your grow your character)

You've already done Fallout 3 for Bethesda style (EXPLORATION in an open world, thin optional plot line, ho hum gameplay).

Obsidian has the best most free and reactive plots of them all, they've worked in Bioware style for KOTOR II and Bethesda style for Fallout 3: New Vegas. Be warned though that they do the best storylines but are also by far the buggiest.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

How about some RPG-lite to ease yourself in? Diablo did it for me.

 

[TheLastCandle]

It's nice to know I'm not alone in the "I just can't get into Fallout 3/Oblivion" camp.

I think I played Fallout 3 for an hour and I struggle to think of a game I've liked less. Just not for me.

I do like WRPGs though. KoTOR and Neverwinter Nights in particular.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

OP, I don't enjoy Bethesda style, open world RPGs myself and prefer my RPGs to have more of a character / narrative focus. If you're in the same boat and want to play a game that was released relatively recently I would recommend trying the Witcher.

It has a solid main plot and interesting characters, graphically still looks very good and can run on medium PC no problem, and has a pretty strait forward gameplay / combat system.

I would also recommend Dragon Age for the same reasons but it sounds like you've already given it a shot.

 

[Danne-Danger]

I can say as someone who grew up on JRPGs and also loved KOTOR (when it was new) Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout NV, etc., that it's going to be really tough for someone to get into these old WRPGs you guys are mentioning.

Gothic I and II are basically impossible to enjoy at this point if you don't have nostalgia going for you. The controls, graphics and UI are so dated that playing it feels like work. I'll admit I haven't tried Planescape: Torment yet (even though GAF won't stop jacking that game off), but I can only imagine it'd be a similar problem with that game. WRPGs are more about tech. than art and they don't age very well.

I'd stick with more of the recent WRPG entries mentioned in this thread (The Witcher, etc.).

Most WRPGs that don't require you to move and punch stuff like an action game are fine even today (i.e. not Gothic and Morrowind). Look at some high-res images of Planescape, Baldur's Gate, Arcanum and Fallout (all through mods) and tell me that's it's more tech than art. They all look fine, and since you only need a mouse to play them most human beings (with at least one arm and one eye) should be able to grasp the controls.

Wizardry 8 is full 3D and has aged graphically, but the gameplay is actually faster and IMO much more fun and easy to get into than a lot of modern games. Lots of graphical options and a great interface helps a lot as well. It's a well designed and solid game, hasn't aged a day if you look past the graphics.

 

[TL4E]

I tried to get into wrpgs with Fallout 3 back in 2008. I played for a few hours, running around a massive, daunting over-world. The combat system was foreign to me with its seemingly unnecessary rpg elements. Drawn out conversations with multiple "responses" felt dubiously interactive.

I really wanted to get to that point where the concepts clicks, but I just couldn't do it. :lol

 

[Azih]

Most WRPGs that don't require you to move and punch stuff like an action game are fine even today (i.e. not Gothic and Morrowind). Look at some high-res images of Planescape, Baldur's Gate, Arcanum and Fallout (all through mods) and tell me that's it's more tech than art.

Dude, the art direction in those games is amazing but the sprites are extremely blocky and have horrible animation

and since you only need a mouse to play them most human beings (with at least one arm and one eye) should be able to grasp the controls.

'controls' aren't the issue, user interface (especially for fallout and arcanum) and incredibly complicated rules (for the D&D games ) are.

 

[Ceebs]

If you have a modern PC give Risen a shot. It does the open world exploration thing far better than any of the Bethesda games.

 

[Llyranor]

I see Wizardry VIII screenshots. I am happy again.

Such a fantastic combat system.

 

[Danne-Danger]

Dude, the art direction in those games is amazing but the sprites are extremely blocky and have horrible animation.

When you're at higher resolutions the "blocky" sprites become less of an issue (since your view will be further away). The animations have never bothered me though (well, arcanum did, a bit), and they don't disturb the gameplay since you don't control your characters directly in any of those games (disregarding Goris dropping his cape before a fight, ugh!). And I don't think you really meant to call the animations in Fallout horrible, unless you meant it in the "Oh got he just got ripped to shreds by a minigun that's HORRIBLE!"-way.

'controls' aren't the issue, user interface (especially for fallout and arcanum) and incredibly complicated rules (for the D&D games ) are.

If I could figure them out when I was 10 and barely knew any English, I'm sure most people could. I can't really see how anyone could find the interface in Fallout cumbersome, you have most interaction options on the right mouse button, and you click the HUGE gun to shoot. Once you have that down, just start pointing and clicking on things in the world.

I'll agree that dealing with spell protections in BG was a hassle if you didn't read the instructions (the instructions say throw “dispel” to get rid of spells), but other than that you pretty much just need to know that negative AC is a good thing and you're set to go. Oh and the whole magic immunity thing with weapons can be confusing as well, but it is easy to figure out on your own (I need bigger sword!).

The main problem is that people are just lazy and can’t figure shit out without having tutorial screens popping up every 5 seconds.

Damn kids and their music.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I see Wizardry VIII screenshots. I am happy again.

Such a fantastic combat system.

Much better than FFXII's system.

 

[Jamesearlcash]

I think that you're playing it wrong, fallout 3 started amazing for me just having this cool world to explore was enough to blow me away, however it soon dawned on me that i didn't know what to do, and at the same time i didn't want to finish the game too quick as it seemed so great, you're in a kind of limbo, just do a few main story quests and then have an explore/do some side quests rinse and repeat, the story quests keep you interested and also by playing the story you will be led to better weapons/armour.

 

[SturokBGD]

I'm a huge fan of WRPGs, but I've never understood why people make such a big deal about having the "freedom" to do things that make absolutely no sense in context. Why would you want to go around killing all the mission-critical NPCs? Why would you be surprised that it breaks the game's narrative? I'd rather development time was spent on more worthwhile things. It's all an illusion anyway.

 

[kitzkozan]

As much as I love wrpg,there's one thing that I find sad with thread like this.

It's always the same few game that get mentioned.Mostly the black isles/Troika old school stuff or Wizardry along with the older Bioware titles. While that's all good and fine,it just expose the lack of depth in this genre when you always see the short list of valid crpg.Jrpg fans have hundred of titles to pick upon,but the list is so short when it come to wrpg.

It does expose the lack of interest of most talented western developer for the rpg genre.

 

[epmode]

SS2 is a great game with a great integration of story and gameplay and a real sense of being in the world (which makes the horror that much more horrifying) but its a bitch to get running right now on PC.

You may or may not know this but you can get a modified DirectX10 graphics driver for System Shock 2 which makes it easily playable on new hardware. It also works for Thief 1 and 2.

If you have a modern PC give Risen a shot. It does the open world exploration thing far better than any of the Bethesda games.

This is probably going to be overlooked but Risen is a LOT better than I expected. It's a first-class exploration-focused WRPG and it looks great. Just make sure you get the PC version.

 

[Mashing]

Those Wizardy 8 screen shots make me nostalgic for Might and Magic VI. A shame that series went to shit after VII. VI and VII are some of my favorite games.

 

[coopolon]

I never ran into unkillable characters in Fallout 3, it disappoints me that Bethesda took that weaksauce route. I loved how in Morrowind you could kill anyone, anytime, and it just told you "Well, you can't beat the game anymore now that he's dead, but we don't care if you don't care."

 

[Raiden]

I love WRPG'S, but i hate bullshit like enemies scaling with you like in Oblivion, what is the point in leveling and getting awesome gear, when those enemies dont die easier and faster.

 

[EviLore]

I love WRPG'S, but i hate bullshit like enemies scaling with you like in Oblivion, what is the point in leveling and getting awesome gear, when those enemies dont die easier and faster.

Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul

 

[djtiesto]

As much as I love wrpg,there's one thing that I find sad with thread like this.

It's always the same few game that get mentioned.Mostly the black isles/Troika old school stuff or Wizardry along with the older Bioware titles. While that's all good and fine,it just expose the lack of depth in this genre when you always see the short list of valid crpg.Jrpg fans have hundred of titles to pick upon,but the list is so short when it come to wrpg.

It does expose the lack of interest of most talented western developer for the rpg genre.

Granted, nowadays they are quite dated, and tough to get working on modern machines properly, but I am shocked that my introduction to the american rpg genre, the Ultima series, hardly ever gets mentioned in threads like these. It's like people think the whole genre didn't exist until Baldur's Gate and the first Fallout.

 

[Ceebs]

This is probably going to be overlooked but Risen is a LOT better than I expected. It's a first-class exploration-focused WRPG and it looks great. Just make sure you get the PC version.

I was shocked Dennis was not in the thread proselytizing to the masses about the game yet.

Granted, nowadays they are quite dated, and tough to get working on modern machines properly, but I am shocked that my introduction to the american rpg genre, the Ultima series, hardly ever gets mentioned in threads like these. It's like people think the whole genre didn't exist until Baldur's Gate and the first Fallout.

I tried recommending Ultima 7 recently and got a dirty look once they saw the screens. It's hard to go back to that if you did not play it when it was somewhat modern.

 

[peakish]

Granted, nowadays they are quite dated, and tough to get working on modern machines properly, but I am shocked that my introduction to the american rpg genre, the Ultima series, hardly ever gets mentioned in threads like these. It's like people think the whole genre didn't exist until Baldur's Gate and the first Fallout.

7 (which I've played) is fantastic, but I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie personally.

 

[Cimarron]

We'll see you in a few years, then!

LOL! aint that the truth! I was unmemployed for an entire summer. And I played Morrowind (sans expansions) everyday for at least 8 hours straight. I took me like 2.5 months to finish that game. And I didn't even finsh all the quests! Granted I have RPG OCD. I insisted on stealing every pair of socks from every house in every town I came across. I even stole bread rolls and and napkins! :lol

The one thing I hate about Oblivion is that stealing is no fun anymore. Reputable shops won't buy filched goods anymore. You have to sell them to the homeboy shopping network now. >_<

 

[larvi]

As much as I love wrpg,there's one thing that I find sad with thread like this.

It's always the same few game that get mentioned.Mostly the black isles/Troika old school stuff or Wizardry along with the older Bioware titles. While that's all good and fine,it just expose the lack of depth in this genre when you always see the short list of valid crpg.Jrpg fans have hundred of titles to pick upon,but the list is so short when it come to wrpg.

It does expose the lack of interest of most talented western developer for the rpg genre.

It wasn't always that way. I look back at my PC collection and I have well over 100 rpgs with lots of depth and variety. I think the reason you see the same lists over and over is those are the ones to start with if you are new to the genre. No different then the lists I see when someone is new to the JRPG genre and asks for recommendatons.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Jrpg fans have hundred of titles to pick upon,but the list is so short when it come to wrpg.

Well, Japan had the benefit of JRPGs being the most popular genre of gaming in that nation. When your target demographic's best sellers are Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, it's no surprise that there are a plethora of other games chasing after that market. WRPGs were mainly catering to a dedicated niche of PC gamers that, while able to sustain the companies dedicated to making those types of games, didn't exactly send out strong signals to other companies that there was a veritable goldmine that was just sitting there for the taking if they could get their own copycat out the door.

 

[Glix]

Fallout 3 was the first one I was really able to start digging, and would actually look forward to coming home to play.

It shares a lot with Minecraft in my opinion. You CREATE your own adventure, its just a big sandbox. If you get too caught up in what you are SUPPOSED to be doing, you are going to mess things up. Just do things the way you WANT to do them

I think that is the big difference than the JRPG hand holding (demon souls excluded), where, like, if you get a new summon, you know you need it for the next boss, etc.

 

[The Technomancer]

Just wanted to chime in with my usual refrain: although Geneforge is an obscure indie RPG, its also one of the best WRPGs I've ever played, and does an excellent job at balancing exploration and free-form nature and consequences with an over-arching story. You can kill anyone and it will change things and lock off areas, but one way or the other you'll get to the end. Its a great jumping off point if you're new to the genre and want a 50 hour game for $25

I've never really been a fan of Bethedesa or Bioware WRPGs, for being too incredibly open world and too linear respectively. I'm really hoping that Bloodlines goes on sale on Steam this holiday, and I need to track down a copy of Arcanum.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Personally, I like WRPG's, but haven't been able to get into Bethesda's offerings, which has shied me away from FNV.

I like BioWare games, but they give you more of an illusion of non-linearity in exchange for a tighter storyline.

 

[HK-47]

I can say as someone who grew up on JRPGs and also loved KOTOR (when it was new) Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout NV, etc., that it's going to be really tough for someone to get into these old WRPGs you guys are mentioning.

Gothic I and II are basically impossible to enjoy at this point if you don't have nostalgia going for you. The controls, graphics and UI are so dated that playing it feels like work. I'll admit I haven't tried Planescape: Torment yet (even though GAF won't stop jacking that game off), but I can only imagine it'd be a similar problem with that game. WRPGs are more about tech. than art and they don't age very well.

I'd stick with more of the recent WRPG entries mentioned in this thread (The Witcher, etc.).

Umm Planescape and the rest of the IE games look gorgeous to this day, especially with the widescreen mods.

 

[HK-47]

Granted, nowadays they are quite dated, and tough to get working on modern machines properly, but I am shocked that my introduction to the american rpg genre, the Ultima series, hardly ever gets mentioned in threads like these. It's like people think the whole genre didn't exist until Baldur's Gate and the first Fallout.

Its cause the old Ultimas are hard to find unless you emulate and they'll probably throw most new school players for a loop, especially 4. I've said it before but IV and VII are still ahead of the times in certain respects.

If you want more old school stuff, also check out the Goldbox D&D games, Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, Realms of Arkania 1-3 and especially Betrayal at Krondor, which I think has aged very well. You can get Betrayal (and its sequel) as well as all 3 Realms games on GOG.