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[Dictator93]

Ornstein & Smough wouldn't be Ornstein & Smough if you wouldn't die, die and die over again. They would be nothing. That's stripping off all of the satisfaction of beating the impossible odds. They're just two boss monsters with life bars. This isn't any other game. There's no cutscene or story exposition to reward you for progressing forward. Only the feeling of victory.

I can say with absolute certainty that there would not have been four Dark Souls OT's on GAF in span of few weeks after release if people could just run through the game. It wouldn't be same in any way imaginable. There would not be any of that.

There's no point in discussing tactics, builds or anything if there's no even playground to base those discussions on. It loses all of its meaning.

It's designed to be a collective experience of frustrations, mysteries and challenges and overcoming them. That's the only fucking reason the games are what they are right now. Of course there are layers of story, characters and mechanics around that core of the game but they're just dressing in the end, even though integral part of the whole that makes the games so great.

The fundamental philosophy behind Souls games is learning through failure and it's clear as a day that that they are meant to humble you and force you to pay attention in order to succeed. How the hell does an easy mode not undermine all of that?
That's the reason these games give them feelings that other games today aren't able to.

This has been discussed to death but I still can't believe there are people who played through the game and don't fucking understand this.

Can we get married?

 

[ponpo]

I know that's already a downside, but it's not enough. Giving rings more significant downsides will help avoid situations where there's no reason not to use a particular ring, like the DWGR used to be, and the FAP ring currently is.

FAP isn't that great now. I used to use fap + dwgr like everyone but now I use wolf's + hornet's, wolf's + bellowing dragonscrest, blah blah. Depends on the build I guess. Lots of people using kind of bland dex pyro builds so no need for varied rings.

They could make a lot of the rings less useless, but I don't think they need to have blatant minuses.

 

[Taruranto]

What i want from the next DS:

- QTE at every boss fight: Press a button to kill Ornstein & Smough in an awesome-looking CS!
- In-game helper companion that stops the action and the game to explain me how to attack and climb walls and were to go with awesome tutorials. (We want modern Zelda audience)
- 10 minutes CS with emotional engagement
- Option to continue if a die in a boss fight
- Waifus to romance

 

[Vazra]

What i want from the next DS:

- QTE at every boss fight: Press a button to kill Ornstein & Smough in an awesome-looking CS!
- In-game helper companion that stops the action and the game to explain me how to attack and climb walls and were to go with awesome tutorials. (We want modern Zelda audience)
- 10 minutes CS with emotional engagement
- Option to continue if a die in a boss fight
- Waifus to romance

You forgot decision making to change the color of the ending.

 

[darkistheway]

I hope From goes full-troll mode and makes the first area super-easy and then has the first boss go Gwyn on your ass.

 

[UrbanRats]

I care because the difficulty is 50% of what makes Souls what it is.

Reasons why Souls should not have an Easy Mode:
1. It turns the game from a thinking mans game to a hack 'n slash.
Why even bother with a shield? Just armor up and Two hand ALL THE THINGS!

2. It messes up the servers.
How would you separate easy servers and people who have balls servers? I don't want to fight someone who has super easy mode gear as I progress (slowly) to fight enemies who have actual bite to them. Nor do I want to Co-op with anyone who just one shots the boss.

3.Congratulations, you've accomplished nothing.
I've always said if I had to describe the Souls games' difficulty in one word it would be 'fair'. Enemies got down just as fast as you do and they flinch, have weaknesses, can be exploited, etc. It all comes down to playstyle, how smart you are evading attacks, gear and flask management. When you beat a boss or the entire game you have overcame something. You didn't just bash your way through a linear corridor. You overcame traps, deadly monsters 10x your size and find out a little more about yourself as a gamer which brings me to...

4. Getting rid of the difficulty you lose any incentive to go outside your comfort zone
Why bother with the bow, spells, shield when blindly slashing will do the trick. As you play through the game you will hit several walls in terms of bosses and areas. You have to figure your way past them through what you have at your disposal. Trouble with Anor Lando snipers? Try lighter armor to evade their arrows. What spells would be effective in defeating them? Will you try to fight them at a distance? Will you parry them? Knock them off the ledge? You have the means but you have to learn what works for you.

Watching most people struggle on youtube and bitch about the difficulty has taught me one thing. People are reluctant to learn. Whenever the game kills them they never learn and blame the game. Adding an easy mode doesn't fix this.

P.S. Apparently DSP went back to complete Dark Souls recently and is at the Tomb of the Giants.

Hopefully, addressing your points will answer the other who quoted me, as well:

1. How is that your problem, if the normal game is the design priority, and the easy mode just an after thought for a different crowd of people?

2. I acknowledge this problem, but it's not that hard to fix: make the easy mode offline only or make the easy mode changes virtually nullified in the context of PvP (as mentioned before, a season player will overpower a newbie with a better gear any day of the week).

3. Again, difficulty has its place in the Souls games, but if it doesn't affect you directly how is this your business? You and i will play on normal (and i say this as a terrible player, i'm not good at all) but whoever wants to have a different experience will have the chance to, without in any way affecting yours.

4. This is also true, but different people respond well to different learning curves, a softer one could do wonders for someone not as good with a controller.
While forcing the unforgiving hard edge on them would just push them away.
I can attest to this, as i sold Ninja Gaiden (3d one) after cursing the Gods in the Alma fight, in the church, while later on getting Black, finishing the game on Ninja Dog mode with a softer learning curve, and THEN being able to beat the original game, once i had understood the logics of the game and got accustomed to the controls.
Thanks to that softer learning curve i've had the pleasure to then experience Ninja Gaiden 2 and other action games, from then on.

It's important to recognize that there are a lot of way to soften the learning curve of the game while still keeping the normal difficulty as a focus for balancing the main game.
Things like: increase the HP/damage ratio for the player and reduce it for the foes; higher souls drop; bigger estus flask; longer I-frame window in the roll animation and so on.
These are all things that could be easily tweaked in an easy mode, and could get a lot of player into the series, without affecting in any way normal players.

Unless we're talking about e-cred and other inane pathetic bullshit that sometimes pops out, when discussing these issues.

This has been discussed to death but I still can't believe there are people who played through the game and don't fucking understand this.

Hey man, good thing an easy mode as i described it, wouldn't negate all that to you.
No matter how patronizing you go about it, you're really in no position to dictate what Dark Souls "is all about", unless you're prepared to say to people enjoying the game with an easy mode, that they're really not enjoying themselves, and it's all an illusion.

 

[Taruranto]

You forgot decision making to change the color of the ending.

I'd prefer a day 1 on-disk DLC: Buy this awesome-looking weapon for 9$ and you'll no longer have to worry about going the wrong away in the first area!

 

[The Lamp]

I would rather they not waste their time trying to balance a whole bunch of modes for people who should be playing a Zelda game instead.

 

[Vazra]

I'd prefer a day 1 on-disk DLC: Buy this awesome-looking weapon for 9$ and you'll no longer have to worry about going the wrong away in the first area!

Season pass too!

 

[AlimNassor]

I care because the difficulty is 50% of what makes Souls what it is.

Reasons why Souls should not have an Easy Mode:
1. It turns the game from a thinking mans game to a hack 'n slash.
Why even bother with a shield? Just armor up and Two hand ALL THE THINGS!

2. It messes up the servers.
How would you separate easy servers and people who have balls servers? I don't want to fight someone who has super easy mode gear as I progress (slowly) to fight enemies who have actual bite to them. Nor do I want to Co-op with anyone who just one shots the boss.

3.Congratulations, you've accomplished nothing.
I've always said if I had to describe the Souls games' difficulty in one word it would be 'fair'. Enemies got down just as fast as you do and they flinch, have weaknesses, can be exploited, etc. It all comes down to playstyle, how smart you are evading attacks, gear and flask management. When you beat a boss or the entire game you have overcame something. You didn't just bash your way through a linear corridor. You overcame traps, deadly monsters 10x your size and find out a little more about yourself as a gamer which brings me to...

4. Getting rid of the difficulty you lose any incentive to go outside your comfort zone
Why bother with the bow, spells, shield when blindly slashing will do the trick. As you play through the game you will hit several walls in terms of bosses and areas. You have to figure your way past them through what you have at your disposal. Trouble with Anor Lando snipers? Try lighter armor to evade their arrows. What spells would be effective in defeating them? Will you try to fight them at a distance? Will you parry them? Knock them off the ledge? You have the means but you have to learn what works for you.

Watching most people struggle on youtube and bitch about the difficulty has taught me one thing. People are reluctant to learn. Whenever the game kills them they never learn and blame the game. Adding an easy mode doesn't fix this.

P.S. Apparently DSP went back to complete Dark Souls recently and is at the Tomb of the Giants.

he didn't beat it. He has people do it for him. he had people telling him what to do where to go, and people playing coop for him, giving him tons of overpowered items. Whenever he goes 'solo", he dies almost instantly against regular enemies.

He had 2 guys who had overpowered items 3-hit S/O, and he boasted about he beat them. DSP sat back and did nothing the entire fight. He's got an infinite supply of humanity, and a +5 Gravelord sword and nearly infinite souls because his coop buddies do everything for him and in the rare event they die, they make sure he's as overpowered as possible, and yet he still manages to die.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

What i want from the next DS:

- QTE at every boss fight: Press a button to kill Ornstein & Smough in an awesome-looking CS!
- In-game helper companion that stops the action and the game to explain me how to attack and climb walls and were to go with awesome tutorials. (We want modern Zelda audience)
- 10 minutes CS with emotional engagement
- Option to continue if a die in a boss fight
- Waifus to romance

And a straw man is born.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Hopefully, addressing your points will answer the other who quoted me, as well:

1. How is that your problem, if the normal game is the design priority, and the easy mode just an after thought for a different crowd of people?

2. I acknowledge this problem, but it's not that hard to fix: make the easy mode offline only or make the easy mode changes virtually nullified in the context of PvP (as mentioned before, a season player will overpower a newbie with a better gear any day of the week).

3. Again, difficulty has its place in the Souls games, but if it doesn't affect you directly how is this your business? You and i will play on normal (and i say this as a terrible player, i'm not good at all) but whoever wants to have a different experience will have the chance to, without in any way affecting yours.

4. This is also true, but different people respond well to different learning curves, a softer one could do wonders for someone not as good with a controller.
While forcing the unforgiving hard edge on them would just push them away.
I can attest to this, as i sold Ninja Gaiden (3d one) after cursing the Gods in the Alma fight, in the church, while later on getting Black, finishing the game on Ninja Dog mode with a softer learning curve, and THEN being able to beat the original game, once i had understood the logics of the game and got accustomed to the controls.
Thanks to that softer learning curve i've had the pleasure to then experience Ninja Gaiden 2 and other action games, from then on.

It's important to recognize that there are a lot of way to soften the learning curve of the game while still keeping the normal difficulty as a focus for balancing the main game.
Things like: increase the HP/damage ratio for the player and reduce it for the foes; higher souls drop; bigger estus flask; longer I-frame window in the roll animation and so on.
These are all things that could be easily tweaked in an easy mode, and could get a lot of player into the series, without affecting in any way normal players.

Unless we're talking about e-cred and other inane pathetic bullshit that sometimes pops out, when discussing these issues.


Hey man, good thing an easy mode as i described it, wouldn't negate all that to you.
No matter how patronizing you go about it, you're really in no position to dictate what Dark Souls "is all about", unless you're prepared to say to people enjoying the game with an easy mode, that they're really not enjoying themselves, and it's all an illusion.

And? The position counter to yours is just described with this. You forget, again, as Alim posted, there are easy modes. You've not justified your position of a drastic change. So why the kommisar approach? Why? Is it guarenteed more successful? Yes? No?

 

[UrbanRats]

I would rather they not waste their time trying to balance a whole bunch of modes for people who should be playing a Zelda game instead.

"A whole bunch of modes" is ONE mode, that could attract, just by being there in name, a whole lot of people.
Let's consider that each NG+, up to NG+++++++, is a whole new "difficulty level", in a Souls game.
Yet a single NG- would completely rob them of that crucial time?

Of course since we like over dramatization, we can image that scenario where the series bombed hard and we all bitched on forums because there are no more different games, all because one single compromise (that didn't affect the normal game in any noticeable way) was already too much for us to handle.

And? The position counter to yours is just described with this. You forget, again, as Alim posted, there are easy modes. You've not justified your position of a drastic change. So why the kommisar approach? Why? Is it guarenteed more successful? Yes? No?

I don't forget that, since i've mentioned it countless times before, the problem is that it's not really an "easy mode" that attracts new player for mainly two reasons:
1- It's not spelled out (and the ridiculous over blown reputation this game has needs exactly that, to attract intimidated players in).
2- Connection is trash, and to find a coop partner often took me up to 20 minutes, if not more.

I'm saying an easy mode with low to zero impact on the normal experience is possible, and by virtue of being there spelled out alone, it could ease up a lot of people into the series, that could then turn into fans of the regular mode.

 

[The Lamp]

"A whole bunch of modes" is ONE mode, that could attract, just by being there in name, a whole lot of people.
Let's consider that each NG+, up to NG+++++++, is a whole new "difficulty level", in a Souls game.
Yet a single NG- would completely rob them of that crucial time?

Of course since we like over dramatization, we can image that scenario where the series bombed hard and we all bitched on forums because there are no more different games, all because one single compromise (that didn't affect the normal game in any noticeable way) was already too much for us to handle.

Because what's to stop it at one extra mode? What if that mode isn't easy enough for some people?

The beauty of Dark Souls is that it's relatively easy/simple if you're not stupid or careless. You can dynamically adjust the difficulty based on your play style. You can make it hard by not leveling up, or by stupidly trying to play it like Zelda. You can make it easy by looking before entering anywhere and by keeping your guard up.

First time through, getting from beginning of the game to the Minotaur boss took me hours. When I go and replay it now, it's like less than an hour of gameplay. Because I know where everything is and I've learned to be cautious and dodge. The game didn't get easier on me, I got better. Enemies are exactly where they were before. I just learned.

The game doesn't need an easy mode. If anything the combat is so fair and responsive that I have never felt that a misplaced attack was anything but my fault.

Adjusting the amount of souls you get and reducing damage you take and stuff like that doesn't just make the game easier, it breaks the game. It would break the online multiplayer and it breaks the entire balance of enemy encounters. The whole design of the game is upturned by artificially changing these parameters.

 

[UrbanRats]

Because what's to stop it at one extra mode? What if that mode isn't easy enough for some people?

The beauty of Dark Souls is that it's relatively easy/simple if you're not stupid or careless. You can dynamically adjust the difficulty based on your play style. You can make it hard by not leveling up, or by stupidly trying to play it like Zelda. You can make it easy by looking before entering anywhere and by keeping your guard up.

First time through, getting from beginning of the game to the Minotaur boss took me hours. When I go and replay it now, it's like less than an hour of gameplay. Because I know where everything is and I've learned to be cautious and dodge. The game didn't get easier on me, I got better. Enemies are exactly where they were before. I just learned.

The game doesn't need an easy mode. If anything the combat is so fair and responsive that I have never felt that a misplaced attack was anything but my fault.

Adjusting the amount of souls you get and reducing damage you take and stuff like that doesn't just make the game easier, it breaks the game. It would break the online multiplayer and it breaks the entire balance of enemy encounters. The whole design of the game is upturned by artificially changing these parameters.

See i agree with your premise, that the game is very fair for the most part, and i had a similar experience with the first hours being of crushing defeat and learning.
I disagree with the conclusion though.
First of all as i said before i do not consider DkS an example of perfectly balanced and fine tuned game design, infact i think the whole final third of the game is a mess in that regard.
Moreover, although i agree that the act of dying is intertwined with the game's design (and vital to the experience)i also think there's a gray area in which this "learning curve of death" can move about, without becoming stupidly impossible nor game breakingly easy.
A gray area in which a normal and an easy mode can co-exist, and specifically an easy mode in which a slower learning player could see the same improvements and mistakes as the normal player sees, but under the guise of a less insurmountable obstacle.
I think while the challenge/reward brain function may be the same, the ratio at which they operate is different.

To use an analogy, an Olympic athlete reaching that 23 mph goal and someone on rehabilitation walking to the bathroom, are a similar function of seeing the goal, working towards it, and eventually achieving it through improving their performance, it's only the ratio and perspective at which they operate that is different.

So as long as the easy mode operates in that gray area in which the arc of failing, learning and succeeding is not broken, the game's integrity is mostly intact, yet the arc is in their "view cone" enough to make it palatable, just like the normal difficulty is to you.

 

[tokkun]

Adjusting the amount of souls you get and reducing damage you take and stuff like that doesn't just make the game easier, it breaks the game. It would break the online multiplayer and it breaks the entire balance of enemy encounters. The whole design of the game is upturned by artificially changing these parameters.

How would it break online multiplayer when you can easily farm souls as-is?

 

[Baraka in the White House]

When it comes to a game with a cult following like Souls games, change is never going to be welcome. It was that way from DeS to DS and it will be that way in the move to DSII. I think the fretting over the game turning into Zelda or Skyrim or fucking Call of Duty is ridiculously overblown and yet I fear that any and all changes to the Souls formula as it exists will be blamed on an imaginary bunch of players who asked for it to be turned into a rail shooter.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I think they should make the Souls game harder a la Demons souls. Have bonfires but only one per level. If your not in human form your HP is halved. Get rid of some of the PvE bullshit like clipping through walls and bad frame rate and make the world larger.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

I think a decent idea would be to have level caps so (bad) players cannot overcome challenge via grinding anymore. Maybe increase these level caps after every boss. Maybe tie equipment upgrading to your level as well so that it doesn't get out of control either.

To people wanting an easy mode in this game:
go play something else, there are plenty of games for you
also the games are not that hard

 

[Papercuts]

How would it break online multiplayer when you can easily farm souls as-is?

This. Grinding is always possible with the way everything respawns, and it is not very hard to find an exploit like the forest one where enemies will run off the cliff which I remember being found out within a day or two of the game releasing.

I think an issue people have with souls games is, kinda what the lamp said, the game isn't really hard. While it will be if you play it stupidly, in a way the punishing nature of the game is what rubs some people the wrong way. While it is key to the experience in some aspects, I would be lying if I said there haven't been plenty of times where I felt outright bored getting back to a boss through a breeze of a level and it feeling like tedious busywork. A well tuned 'easy' mode that cuts out a lot of the busywork would not necessarily be a bad thing, so I don't feel pumping out the soul output on stuff matters as there is no satisfaction to be gained from repeatedly clearing an enemy doing the same thing.

I can't see the structure of the game changing much unless they alter level design and add more bonfires as well, which seems possible. Imagine one before all the boss rooms, or something. While the die hard fans would hate stuff like this it wouldn't bother me as I could ignore it and have other people enjoy the game more.

 

[H_Prestige]

To people wanting an easy mode in this game:
go play something else, there are plenty of games for you
also the games are not that hard

This is the one instance where I think the word "entitlement" is warranted.

Dark Souls is From's game. They make it the way they want. You don't like it, fine, go play COD or Uncharted clone #48. Those games will explain everything to you and make sure that you win.

"A whole bunch of modes" is ONE mode, that could attract, just by being there in name, a whole lot of people.
Let's consider that each NG+, up to NG+++++++, is a whole new "difficulty level", in a Souls game.
Yet a single NG- would completely rob them of that crucial time?

Of course since we like over dramatization, we can image that scenario where the series bombed hard and we all bitched on forums because there are no more different games, all because one single compromise (that didn't affect the normal game in any noticeable way) was already too much for us to handle.

As I said earlier, NG- wouldn't make the game that much easier, unless it's bordering on God Mode.

NG+ for instance isn't actually harder than NG. It's actually much easier since by then you have all this knowledge of the game. Which again, should tell you that difficulty in Dark Souls has little to do with how hard Ornstein and Smough hit.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

If you want an easy mode:

Why don't you just go to From Software's offices and just spit in the their faces while your at it? Whatever happened to games as art neogaf?

 

[Baraka in the White House]

This thread is hilarious. There's like one guy here weighing the argument for an "easy mode". Cue mass hysteria.

 

[RK9039]

lol what.. An easy mode for an already easy game? What else do you want, cheat codes for rare weapons? There isn't even a 'normal' mode. There is a hard mode though, it's called the Calamity Ring.

 

[Sullichin]

Everyone should be on the same playing field, it's something that makes Souls special. That's all I'm going to say about that, not interested in having this argument again

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Everyone should be on the same playing field, it's something that makes Souls special. That's all I'm going to say about that, not interested in having this argument again

Would you say that a character that chooses and utilizes the master key fully and one that goes with twin humanities to start with are on the same playing field?

 

[UrbanRats]

This is the one instance where I think the word "entitlement" is warranted.

Dark Souls is From's game. They make it the way they want. You don't like it, fine, go play COD or Uncharted clone #48. Those games will explain everything to you and make sure that you win.

So they are entitled to make an easy mode? Isn't the outrage about them doing what they want to do, and that being against what the fans want?

As I said earlier, NG- wouldn't make the game that much easier, unless it's bordering on God Mode.

NG+ for instance isn't actually harder than NG. It's actually much easier since by then you have all this knowledge of the game. Which again, should tell you that difficulty in Dark Souls has little to do with how hard Ornstein and Smough hit.

As i mentioned above, it wouldn't need much easing up, just keep the learning arc, but lower it enough to make it palatable to less able players.
What i am proposing is not to go after the CoD crowd no question asked, it's to be a little more inclusive without sacrificing anything fundamental of the game's experience.
I mean, of course you could go even more mainstream applying some of the joke features people listed here (QTEs and such) but i'm all against that, so that's not what i'm arguing for.
As anecdotal experience i can tell you there are quite a lot of people who enjoy the game's mechanics but the challenge/reward ratio is just a bit too much out of their grasp as game players, and an easy mode would help them get into it better.
Part of it is also due to the stupid reputation the gaming press and gamers alike keep attaching to the game, as the crazy trollish unforgiving experience for hardcore badasses, which is really not when you actually play it, so something to even over that psychological barrier alone could help.

If you want an easy mode:

Why don't you just go to From Software's offices and just spit in the their faces while your at it? Whatever happened to games as art neogaf?

As far as i am aware, they're spitting in their own faces, since they are the one mentioning an easy mode in the first place.


For all the people arguing that this games cannot be enjoyed with even a slight change to the difficulty (easy mode i'm suggesting) please explain to me how thousands of people around the globe are enjoying the game while constantly looking at boards and Wikis, then.
How is that not completely breaking the balanced experience From had thought out? And yet can you argue with a straight face that those people are not really having fun?

 

[H_Prestige]

Communal sharing of knowledge, aka dark souls wiki, IS what From intended. It's the philosophy behind the game's multiplayer as well.

NG- isn't easy mode. It would still be Dark Souls. And Dark Souls by its design will never be palatable to skyrim type players. New players would still be dying left and right as they navigate the world.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

he didn't beat it. He has people do it for him. he had people telling him what to do where to go, and people playing coop for him, giving him tons of overpowered items. Whenever he goes 'solo", he dies almost instantly against regular enemies.

He had 2 guys who had overpowered items 3-hit S/O, and he boasted about he beat them. DSP sat back and did nothing the entire fight. He's got an infinite supply of humanity, and a +5 Gravelord sword and nearly infinite souls because his coop buddies do everything for him and in the rare event they die, they make sure he's as overpowered as possible, and yet he still manages to die.

Holy shit this guy is obnoxious. How can he get so many likes with such a stupid whiny voice and such a shitty way to play the game (mashing r1 with poise and spamming estus)? Urgh, why are we even paying attention to this douche?

 

[RK9039]

Where have FromSoftware mentioned anything about an easy mode? As far as I know, all they've said is that Dark Souls 2 will start off a little less harder than it's predecessors and that it will be less subtle. That doesn't really mean 'easy mode', just a bit more straightforward.

The Metro newspaper (UK) was the one that first mentioned the news about an easy mode, but Namco immediately cleared it up by saying it was a translation error, this was some time ago now.
Also using wikis, talking on message boards does not make the game easy. Sharing secrets, new information on messages boards/wikis have been like that since Demon's Souls. Heck there's a message system in the game 'Rare weapon here!', 'Try using sticky white stuff!' etc.

 

[UrbanRats]

Communal sharing of knowledge, aka dark souls wiki, IS what From intended. It's the philosophy behind the game's multiplayer as well.

NG- isn't easy mode. It would still be Dark Souls. And Dark Souls by its design will never be palatable to skyrim type players. New players would still be dying left and right as they navigate the world.

I don't divide players so schematically, and again, i don't care to grab every single gamer or anything like that; offering a more forgiving arc and, especially, overcoming the stupid psychological barrier of "aah, this game is too hardcore for me" though, is very possible and risk free, imo.
That is not to say that i'll be ok with any change they intend to make (before someone bookmarks these posts and brings them back a year from now, when i'll be bitching how the game sucks in the OT ) but i also think there are things they could do that could let a bit more people in, without sacrificing anything of value.
You say a simple easy mode won't bring in "the Skyrim crowd", and surely you won't get all of that crowd, but there's a certain fluidity in what we're talking about, it's not an hard edge circle, where you're either a Skyrim fan or a DkS one, elements overlap, fans overlap, potential fans overlap.
Loose your requirements 'til you reach a breaking point, scale back a bit, and get as much new fans as that will get you, is what i'm saying in a nutshell.

Holy shit this guy is obnoxious. How can he get so many likes with such a stupid whiny voice and such a shitty way to play the game (mashing r1 with poise and spamming estus)? Urgh, why are we even paying attention to this douche?

People watch him because he's awful.
Watch his MGS2 playthrough, it's hilarious.
Here's the highlights.

 

[Error]

I'm not sure about Dark Souls 2 being less subtle about its mechanics, I like the fact that Dark Souls was obscure regarding how stuff works it led to massive amount of discussion about the game.

Discovering a covenant was fucking awesome.

 

[Nirolak]

Well Shibuya went over a fair amount of changes already in terms of accessibility:

Our conversation then turns to the issue of accessibility. Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls are notorious for not just being difficult to master in a mechanical sense, but remaining staunchly inscrutable as well; the games rarely explain their systems to players. Demon’s Souls contained a feature called World Tendency that veered between pure white and pure black, changing the nature of the world depending on certain actions, but you had to flee online to the Demon’s Souls wiki if you were to have any hope of untangling the mystery of how it worked. Dark Souls has a host of different ‘covenants’, which require different actions from players to both join and maintain good standing in. The covenant system will return in Dark Souls II, but Shibuya assures us it will be easier to understand.

“I personally feel that the covenant system was something that was difficult to fully absorb and experience [in] Dark Souls, and I intend to make it more accessible to players. And that’s not just with the covenant system, but with a lot of other aspects that I felt were difficult to fully adapt to.

“I will follow the same concept as Dark Souls, but there were a lot of hidden story elements that some players may not have caught before, and I’m hoping to make some of that a little bit more clear or directly expressed to the player as well – not just in the story, but messaging. A lot of elements were very subtle in Dark Souls, and that was something that was characteristic to Dark Souls. But I personally am the sort of person who likes to be more direct instead of subtle, so I think that part of me will [result in] a difference [for] players when they pick up Dark Souls II. It will be more straightforward and more understandable.”

Source: http://www.edge-online.com/features...ssibility-and-taking-control-of-the-series/2/

4Gamer:
You spoke about already having a large fan base, but how are you planning to adjust the difficult in Dark Souls II? To be honest, I can’t help but think that the needs of your existing fans and that of new players might be conflicting.

Shibuya:
Just as you say, it’s a difficult proposition. That’s why we plan on making the early parts of the game comparatively less difficult to ease new players in, and then at a certain point, we’ll tell them “this is where the real game begins.”

Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505206

 

[Vazra]

I need Dark Souls Kawaii Desu Desu Mode

 

[AlimNassor]

Holy shit this guy is obnoxious. How can he get so many likes with such a stupid whiny voice and such a shitty way to play the game (mashing r1 with poise and spamming estus)? Urgh, why are we even paying attention to this douche?

He was raging pretty hard in Sens fortress. he genuinely believes if he dies its the games fault. But now is LP is pretty lame, no more deaths, and no more rage as he has 2 guys do the entire game for him.

 

[Cosmonaut]

Well Shibuya went over a fair amount of changes already in terms of accessibility:

But I personally am the sort of person who likes to be more direct instead of subtle, so I think that part of me will [result in] a difference [for] players when they pick up Dark Souls II. It will be more straightforward and more understandable.

Oh no...

no no no

I'm worried now as well D:

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

If you want an easy mode:

Why don't you just go to From Software's offices and just spit in the their faces while your at it? Whatever happened to games as art neogaf?

"What happened to business decisions in games?" is the question here, not its opposite.

Would you say that a character that chooses and utilizes the master key fully and one that goes with twin humanities to start with are on the same playing field?

Yes. You described just that.

 

[Persona86]

What i want from the next DS:

- QTE at every boss fight: Press a button to kill Ornstein & Smough in an awesome-looking CS!
- In-game helper companion that stops the action and the game to explain me how to attack and climb walls and were to go with awesome tutorials. (We want modern Zelda audience)
- 10 minutes CS with emotional engagement
- Option to continue if a die in a boss fight
- Waifus to romance

You forgot checkpoints at every corner, very important.
Also guns and multilayer will bring in more cash.

 

[Hindle]

I can't wait for info on this but I'm dreading it at the same time. Dont dumb it down for fuck sake!

 

[InPlosion]

Dark Souls with an easy mode option would not be Dark Souls.
People who want an easier game would literally buy something else, or even nothing at all.

Deal with this, it would be like removing cars from a racing game. It cannot be done, it should not be done.

 

[UrbanRats]

Well Shibuya went over a fair amount of changes already in terms of accessibility:


Source: http://www.edge-online.com/features...ssibility-and-taking-control-of-the-series/2/


Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505206

See, the narrative compartment worries me more than a simple "easy mode".
I hope they won't try to force cutscenes and plot points down our throat.

 

[RoboPlato]

Dark Souls with an easy mode option would not be Dark Souls.
People who want an easier game would literally buy something else, or even nothing at all.

Deal with this, it would be like removing cars from a racing game. It cannot be done, it should not be done.

This is the most elitist perspective I've seen in relation to games in a while. Yes, you like your Souls games hard. I get that, I respect that. Denying an optional mode that would other players to enjoy the games that you do is absolutely mindboggling. I wanted to love Demon's Souls but playing for three hours without being able to make any real progress and not knowing what any stat meant or any item did was infuriating. I don't mind a challenge but Demon's Souls was just obtuse for the sake of it. I don't need it to be all that much easier or for it to hold my hand but I do want to be able to get a better grasp of the mechanics by playing the game without having to refer to online guides. If your game demands players go to an external source for help to even grasp the basic necessities, you've failed as a designer.

 

[theta11]

I want the Monk boss fight from Demon's Souls back. The whole of World 3 is definitely one of my best gaming experiences this generation. The feeling you get from killing Maneater the first time then walking up the stairs and fighting a player as the boss. Nothing has been able to replicate that feeling for me, not even Dark Souls.

This is the most elitist perspective I've seen in relation to games in a while. Yes, you like your Souls games hard. I get that, I respect that. Denying an optional mode that would other players to enjoy the games that you do is absolutely mindboggling. I wanted to love Demon's Souls but playing for three hours without being able to make any real progress and not knowing what any stat meant or any item did was infuriating. I don't mind a challenge but Demon's Souls was just obtuse for the sake of it.

And it was intentional. And through that it managed to create a really good community for people who stuck around. Modal difficulty in the way that some people want changes the entire landscape of the game and simply doesn't work.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

This is the most elitist perspective I've seen in relation to games in a while. Yes, you like your Souls games hard. I get that, I respect that. Denying an optional mode that would other players to enjoy the games that you do is absolutely mindboggling. I wanted to love Demon's Souls but playing for three hours without being able to make any real progress and not knowing what any stat meant or any item did was infuriating. I don't mind a challenge but Demon's Souls was just obtuse for the sake of it.

bad options are bad though, why do you want a worse game?
the souls games are super straightforward, you dodge and hit enemies
its not rocket science lol
beating the first loop of the game without understanding how gear works at all is completely doable really

 

[Vazra]

I want the Monk boss fight from Demon's Souls back. The whole of World 3 is definitely one of my best gaming experiences this generation. The feeling you get from killing Maneater the first time then walking up the stairs and fighting a player as the boss. Nothing has been able to replicate that feeling for me, not even Dark Souls.

I overall want bosses more like Demon's Souls than Dark Souls.

 

[Lionheart1827]

This is the most elitist perspective I've seen in relation to games in a while. Yes, you like your Souls games hard. I get that, I respect that. Denying an optional mode that would other players to enjoy the games that you do is absolutely mindboggling. I wanted to love Demon's Souls but playing for three hours without being able to make any real progress and not knowing what any stat meant or any item did was infuriating. I don't mind a challenge but Demon's Souls was just obtuse for the sake of it.

I'd have to agree here. It took me 3 times of restarting the game for Demon Souls to finally click for me because I felt like I was playing the game wrong. The game barely explains anything to you and it really turned me off. Once it clicked I loved the game, but I was literally at wits end at that point. Dark Souls had a better primer and explained things much better and was easier to get into. I wouldn't mind if the tutorial part of the game was refined but they kept the tough difficulty in. All I ask for is a just a little explanation, Dark Souls was perfect imo.

 

[RoboPlato]

I'd have to agree here. It took me 3 times of restarting the game for Demon Souls to finally click for me because I felt like I was playing the game wrong. The game barely explains anything to you and it really turned me off. Once it clicked I loved the game, but I was literally at wits end at that point. Dark Souls had a better primer and explained things much better and was easier to get into. I wouldn't mind if the tutorial part of the game was refined but they kept the tough difficulty in. All I ask for is a just a little explanation, Dark Souls was perfect imo.

I haven't played Dark Souls so I can't comment on that but what you described sounds far better than Demon's Souls.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Yes. You described just that.

I don't see it. Not that it's unilaterally a bad thing but I don't think Dark Souls makes any pretenses about establishing parity among its players. Choosing the master key and knowing how to use it gives you a tremendous advantage over players that don't use it.

 

[theta11]

I'd have to agree here. It took me 3 times of restarting the game for Demon Souls to finally click for me because I felt like I was playing the game wrong. The game barely explains anything to you and it really turned me off. Once it clicked I loved the game, but I was literally at wits end at that point. Dark Souls had a better primer and explained things much better and was easier to get into. I wouldn't mind if the tutorial part of the game was refined but they kept the tough difficulty in. All I ask for is a just a little explanation, Dark Souls was perfect imo.

I haven't played Demons Souls in a while but how is the tutorial any different in either game? I remember them being very similar. The only difference being that in Demons Souls you die at the end of the tutorial and there are a few more variations of enemies you encounter though they have really simple AI during the tutorial.

 

[Seanspeed]

This is the most elitist perspective I've seen in relation to games in a while. Yes, you like your Souls games hard. I get that, I respect that. Denying an optional mode that would other players to enjoy the games that you do is absolutely mindboggling. I wanted to love Demon's Souls but playing for three hours without being able to make any real progress and not knowing what any stat meant or any item did was infuriating. I don't mind a challenge but Demon's Souls was just obtuse for the sake of it. I don't need it to be all that much easier or for it to hold my hand but I do want to be able to get a better grasp of the mechanics by playing the game without having to refer to online guides. If your game demands players go to an external source for help to even grasp the basic necessities, you've failed as a designer.

Its not the same game without the difficulty. Its part of the experience. On easy mode, people would play the game, get through it, and not quite understand what all the fuss was about and probably complain.

I'm usually all for options and making things accessible to larger amounts of people, but in this case, I just cant agree. Easy mode would be tragic. If you dont like challenge, dont buy the game.

I do agree they need to explain some stuff better. Even Dark Souls had room for improvement in that area.