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[TheOGB]

Am I the only person who doesn't like Sonic Adventure? I'm playing it on XBL for the first time and the game is horrible--bad camera, slippery control, no direction (leading the player to wander aimlessly), etc.

You should've played it back when it was cool

 

[ColonelColon]

Am I the only person who doesn't like Sonic Adventure? I'm playing it on XBL for the first time and the game is horrible--bad camera, slippery control, no direction (leading the player to wander aimlessly), etc.

I don't think that Sonic Adventure is great, but somehow, inconceivably, later 3D Sonic games are even worse. Just try playing Sonic Heroes. I dare you.

 

[TheOGB]

American DS demo is up.

Aww hell yeah

brb, downloading

EDIT: Pretty neat, but a little weird without the trick system.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Heh, I think I'm flattered. I'll probably go with that one for the OP then, although there are some compositional aspects I don't really like....hm...

Yeah, I don't know, something about yours is a lot easier to look at, it's clearer and funnier. The modded one is too bright and colorful and it almost took me a moment to realize it was the same image... I say stick with the original

 

[Kai Dracon]

I don't think that Sonic Adventure is great, but somehow, inconceivably, later 3D Sonic games are even worse. Just try playing Sonic Heroes. I dare you.

Every 3D Sonic game after Sonic Adventure 2 failed to improve on any of the faults, and introduced new problems that stemmed either from badly conceived gimmicks that went nowhere, or from shoddy development allowing existing flaws to grow worse.

The camera, control, level design, and even collision detection got worse and worse with every game.

 

[Why would you do that?]

Played American DS demo!

I'm quite sad there are no tricks... However, it isn't "Sonic Rush 3" by name, and tricks are a Sonic Rush thing, so...

I don't understand the wisp yet. I'll definitely play it again and try it out.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Sonic 2006? it's got Sonic Adventure gameplay/formula so it can't be that bad.
I think they could have called it Sonic Adventure 3, but decided for a refresh and whatever.

I still like that game more than Unleashed because it's 3d Sonic, not Less-fun Sonic Rush (day) + Sonic of War (night) like Unleashed.

Never played The Secret Rings, while The Black Knight is easily one of the worst Sonic games ever.

I too enjoy the 3D Sonic that can freely move in an open space over the track-racer style that is Unleashed/Colors. If they could just refine it from Adventure 2, I'd be happy to see them try it again.

 

[TheOGB]

Sonic 2006? it's got Sonic Adventure gameplay/formula so it can't be that bad.
I think they could have called it Sonic Adventure 3, but decided for a refresh and whatever.

I still like that game more than Unleashed because it's 3d Sonic, not Less-fun Sonic Rush (day) + Sonic of War (night) like Unleashed.

Never played The Secret Rings, while The Black Knight is easily one of the worst Sonic games ever.

Oh, but it was.

It's not even that, it was just horribly, horribly broken.

 

[AniHawk]

I don't understand the wisp yet. I'll definitely play it again and try it out.

wisps can be exchanged for goods and services.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Am I the only person who doesn't like Sonic Adventure? I'm playing it on XBL for the first time and the game is horrible--bad camera, slippery control, no direction (leading the player to wander aimlessly), etc.

Sonic Adventure was the worst mainline Sonic game at the time of its release back in '99, and inexplicably, somehow became the gold standard for the series moving forward.

 

[ZealousD]

So how would the tier list look like post-Adventure? (Seems many people loved Adventure 2.)

You can't really make a tier list everybody can agree on. But I'll try. I haven't played all of them, so I'll try to go by what I think the general consensus is.

A tier: Colors?
B tier: Rush ~ Rush Adventure ~ Adventure ~ Adventure 2 ~ Advance 1 & 2 ~ Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing
C tier: Unleashed ~ Heroes ~ Secret Rings ~ Advance 3
D tier: Shadow the Hedgehog ~ Sonic Chronicles ~ Black Knight ~ Sonic Riders ~ Riders Zero Gravity ~ Sonic Battle ~ Mario & Sonic at the Olympics (Summer & Winter)
F tier: Sonic 2006

Sonic 4 could probably go anywhere but A tier depending on the person.

 

[The Technomancer]

Ani, where did you hear about the Kmart deal from? I'm thinking of calling and asking about the DS version, and I was just curious as to the source.

 

[Brandon F]

You can't really make a tier list everybody can agree on. But I'll try. I haven't played all of them, so I'll try to go by what I think the general consensus is.

A tier: Colors?
B tier: Rush ~ Rush Adventure ~ Adventure ~ Adventure 2 ~ Advance 1 & 2 ~ Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing
C tier: Unleashed ~ Heroes ~ Secret Rings ~ Advance 3
D tier: Shadow the Hedgehog ~ Sonic Chronicles ~ Black Knight ~ Sonic Riders ~ Riders Zero Gravity ~ Sonic Battle ~ Mario & Sonic at the Olympics (Summer & Winter)
F tier: Sonic 2006

Sonic 4 could probably go anywhere but A tier depending on the person.

If Adventure and Adventure 2 are concerned 'B-tier' gaming, then the concept of 'good' videogame design is totally fucking absent to those people. Some of the most dismal play control alone in the history of videogaming.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

C tier: Unleashed
D tier: Sonic Battle

that's dumb
you're dumb

 

[The Technomancer]

If Adventure and Adventure 2 are concerned 'B-tier' gaming, then the concept of 'good' videogame design is totally fucking absent to those people. Some of the most dismal play control alone in the history of videogaming.

The Sonic Adventure games were the first ones to teach me that yes, you can have such a thing as "too precise control", when a lack of predictable momentum over your character in 3D space makes jumping an exercise in frustration as you twitch the stick to get him where you want him, every slightest tap over-correcting and sending you careening into a pit. Sonic Adventure 2 especially had this problem.

For the most part, yes, but Sonic Unleashed (HD version only) was significantly better than any other 3D Sonic attempt. It featured some great controls and gameplay refinements along with fantastic level design. Werehog was not well liked, but the sections were definitely not bad. Best 3D Sonic to date.

I dunno, seemed like the Wii daytime stages had less bullshit "you just ran headlong into spikes you didn't see!" moments.

 

[dark10x]

Every 3D Sonic game after Sonic Adventure 2 failed to improve on any of the faults, and introduced new problems that stemmed either from badly conceived gimmicks that went nowhere, or from shoddy development allowing existing flaws to grow worse.

The camera, control, level design, and even collision detection got worse and worse with every game.

For the most part, yes, but Sonic Unleashed (HD version only) was significantly better than any other 3D Sonic attempt. It featured some great controls and gameplay refinements along with fantastic level design. Werehog was not well liked, but the sections were definitely not bad. Best 3D Sonic to date.

 

[Diablohead]

SA2 still plays well fuck the haters I play it often since my little bro likes it and I sometimes help him out on stages.

 

[AniHawk]

Ani, where did you hear about the Kmart deal from? I'm thinking of calling and asking about the DS version, and I was just curious as to the source.

cheapassgamer.

of course, I just cashed my $20 on Vanquish (so it only cost me $15), so plans of getting it day one are definitely out the window now.

Amazon should have another B2G1F I hope at some point in December. ...I mean, they did it last year, I think.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

You can't really make a tier list everybody can agree on. But I'll try. I haven't played all of them, so I'll try to go by what I think the general consensus is.

A tier: Colors?
B tier: Rush ~ Rush Adventure ~ Adventure ~ Adventure 2 ~ Advance 1 & 2 ~ Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing
C tier: Unleashed ~ Heroes ~ Secret Rings ~ Advance 3
D tier: Shadow the Hedgehog ~ Sonic Chronicles ~ Black Knight ~ Sonic Riders ~ Riders Zero Gravity ~ Sonic Battle ~ Mario & Sonic at the Olympics (Summer & Winter)
F tier: Sonic 2006

Sonic 4 could probably go anywhere but A tier depending on the person.

Seems like a solid list to me.

You guys really love to exaggerate. I recall my younger self breezing through both Adventures in a span of days, had a blast too, which I don't think would be possible were it the unplayable cancer you guys make it seem. I speak for the Dreamcast originals however.

 

[AniHawk]

Sonic Adventure was sorta this revelation to me. It was my first time seeing a next gen console in action (my first experience seeing anything DC related was actually playing the demo), and I knew I was going to need to have a Dreamcast at some point in the future.

But the game really didn't age well. It's not terrible, but it came out at a point when 3D was still pretty brand new (hell, it was made in 1998), and it shows.

 

[riceandbeans]

For the most part, yes, but Sonic Unleashed (HD version only) was significantly better than any other 3D Sonic attempt. It featured some great controls and gameplay refinements along with fantastic level design. Werehog was not well liked, but the sections were definitely not bad. Best 3D Sonic to date.

To each his own. Unleashed was one of the worst imo. Still better than '06, but just not very fun. I found the controls and gameplay frustrating, even in Sonic's portion. The jumping felt delayed, the level design was meh outside of Spagonia, and the 3D sections were awkward. Still a bit hesitant on this game because I didn't find Sonic Unleashed daytime stages fun at all.

 

[MiamiWesker]

SA2 still plays well fuck the haters I play it often since my little bro likes it and I sometimes help him out on stages.

I just played it and it is still awesome.

SA1 does have major issues but it doesn't change the fact of how amazing it was when it came out.

 

[MiamiWesker]

I played the demo for Sonic Colors DS and it is Rush minus the scoring system (tricks) and plus powerups. In the demo you have the red wisp which turns sonic into fire with the ability to create explosions that could propel him through the air. You hold down the turbo button and it charges the blast up, the longer you hold the bigger the explosion and the further you will travel. You chain explosions to fly through the air, very cool. There are these catapults you can activate if you land on them while on fire.

The level design is pure Rush, there are many paths and I tried all of them. As usual the highest path is the best and quickest. There are a bunch of shortcuts to be found. Not much platforming, its all about speed running. At the end of the stage you get a hand glider and fly around getting rings, much some Rush gimmicks, its optional though, good players will find the route to skip that.

I love Rush so naturally I love this. I think the wisps add a much needed power up system that allows for some change in the usual sonic play. I will pick up the DS version as well some time down the road.

BTW my fastest time is 1 minute 11 seconds.

 

[MiamiWesker]

My tiers. Lets say A tier is Genesis level Sonic, I say none of the 3D ones have reached that so no A.

A tier:
B tier: Rush ~ Rush Adventure ~ Adventure ~ Adventure 2 ~ Unleashed
C tier: Heroes ~ Secret Rings ~ Sonic Advance ~ Advance 2 ~ Sonic 4
D tier: Sonic Chronicles
F tier: Sonic 2006

I have not played the others.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Whoa, Sonic Colors DS is weird. After so much Sonic Rush and having muscle memory ingrained on how to play it, Sonic Colors DS is like wearing your shoes on the wrong feet.

 

[abstract alien]

So glad they got rid of the trick system. Although it sounds cool, I hated how it actually played out on screen, and the audio didn't help it any either.

 

[Nert]

So glad they got rid of the trick system. Although it sounds cool, I hated how it actually played out on screen, and the audio didn't help it any either.

Maybe it was a case of me "doing it wrong," but I found myself staying on the same springs while jamming on the trick button, until I was charged up, over and over again; it never really felt like I was doing anything fun or involving. And yeah, the resulting audio was terrible.

 

[Sciz]

1'08"86. I like both Rush games, but not quite well enough to time attack them much. This one level demo has its hooks in me something fierce, though. :lol

 

[To Far Away Times]

The Sonic series after the Sega Genesis/Megadrive:

A tier:
B tier: Sonic Advance 1, Rush
C tier: Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Advance 3, Rush Adventure
D tier: Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Unleashed, Secret Rings, Sonic 4
F tier: Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 2006


A tier is a great game.
B is above average and worth playing.
C is average.
D games are not very good and usually suffer from lots of filler and/or poor design choices. There may be some decent aspects buried deep in the game, but its not worth the time or effort to find it.
F is broken in all aspects plus featuring horrible artistic and design choices.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Maybe it was a case of me "doing it wrong," but I found myself staying on the same springs while jamming on the trick button, until I was charged up, over and over again; it never really felt like I was doing anything fun or involving. And yeah, the resulting audio was terrible.

See, here I feel lost without the trick system. The level design has big stretches of nothing and you usually run out of boost before reaching the next "action" area.

If you were good at Sonic Rush, you didn't need to bounce on the same spring over and over to refill your boost. Besides, the game specifically tried to guard against this - using the same spring over and over again would provide diminishing returns as far as how much boost it awarded you.

 

[Sciz]

See, here I feel lost without the trick system. The level design has big stretches of nothing and you usually run out of boost before reaching the next "action" area.

I'm not finding the boost to be as all-important as it is in the Rush games. A quick tap gets you dashing away at very nearly the same speed, and there aren't many spots where you have to be boosting to get through badniks or across water. It's great for crossing aerial gaps and getting up to speed at a moment's notice, but Sonic can maintain momentum without having it active all the time.

 

[Shadowlink]

Someone else did a mod of your pic Technomancer.

Edit that post! Imageshack is banned here, so I re-uploaded it for you.

 

[MidnightScott]

Am I the only person who doesn't like Sonic Adventure? I'm playing it on XBL for the first time and the game is horrible--bad camera, slippery control, no direction (leading the player to wander aimlessly), etc.

Umm the port to XBLA & PSN is total crap to begin with. You have to play it on Dreamcast to truely enjoy it. I never thought it was broken. The voices were also the best, sucks they ended up with 4Kids, and now Sonic & Tails got new voices again lol.

Sonic Colors is looking amazing, but I still have the slight feeling that it could end up being crap, so I'm not gonna pick it up at launch like I normally would...

 

[Yoshi]

My tiers. I'm not naming them, I list the games in the order of their quality (form my point of view) sperating huge jumps by "---"s

Sonic Rush
Sonic Rush Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Unleashed 360
[Sonic Colours DS from my demo impressions]
---
Sonic Heroes
Sonic & the Secret Rings
Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Advance 3
---
Sonic Unleashed Wii
Sonic Advance
Sonic Advance 2
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Sonic Riders Zero Gravity
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games
---
Sonic Riders
Sonic Chronicles
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic & the Black Knight
Sonic the Hedgehog 360

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I'm not finding the boost to be as all-important as it is in the Rush games. A quick tap gets you dashing away at very nearly the same speed, and there aren't many spots where you have to be boosting to get through badniks or across water. It's great for crossing aerial gaps and getting up to speed at a moment's notice, but Sonic can maintain momentum without having it active all the time.

It's definitely weird and different. It's missing a sense of urgency, or something. Rush feels like it's pushing you to go as fast as possible all the time, and this isn't.

Not saying that's a bad thing, just... I dunno. I'll have to play through the rest of the game.

 

[DeVeAn]

Why is Sonic riders a bad game? I loved it. The music and lvl up system was cool. Whatever.

The DS demo is awesome. Felt weird at first because the trick system is gone and now the homing attack actually works. Funny how the physics are like Sonic 4, but its ok here because it's not a sequel to the genesis games lol people.

 

[Azure Phoenix]

A tier: Sonic Adventure
B tier: Sonic Adventure 2 - Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity
C tier: Sonic Riders - Sonic Advance 1 - Sonic Battle
D tier: Sonic Advance 2 - Sonic 2006
F tier: Sonic Unleashed - Sonic Chronicles - Sonic Advance 3 - Shadow the Hedgehog
...
Z tier: Sonic Heroes


Yes I enjoyed the Riders games, sue me.

 

[Rlan]

It's definitely weird and different. It's missing a sense of urgency, or something. Rush feels like it's pushing you to go as fast as possible all the time, and this isn't.

Not saying that's a bad thing, just... I dunno. I'll have to play through the rest of the game.

From the demo it looks like it's missing versatile feedback to the player. The big loop of stars on the right of the screen along with the constant "Yeah yeah okay yeah yeah cool!" is making you feel like there's something missing.

 

[wackojackosnose]

The DS demo is awesome. Felt weird at first because the trick system is gone and now the homing attack actually works. Funny how the physics are like Sonic 4, but its ok here because it's not a sequel to the genesis games lol people.

I was wondering why I liked the Rush games but hated the 4, even though the physics in both games are the same / similar, so my conclusion was that the larger viewing area greatly afftected the gameplay in 4 compared to the small screen used in the DS games. The larger viewing area in 4 made me play it like the old Sonic games, but coupled with the bad physics just made Sonic 4 into a wonky platform game. Cos the DS games had such a small viewing area in comparison, playing it as a 16bit platformer made the game terrible because it was difficult to see far ahead but playing it in conjuction with the boost / invincibility button reduced the problem of accidently running into bad guys and changed the DS games genre from wonky platformer to platform racer which made the game infinitely more fun.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I was wondering why I liked the Rush games but hated the 4, even though the physics in both games are the same / similar, so my conclusion was that the larger viewing area greatly afftected the gameplay in 4 compared to the small screen used in the DS games. The larger viewing area in 4 made me play it like the old Sonic games, but coupled with the bad physics just made Sonic 4 into a wonky platform game. Cos the DS games had such a small viewing area in comparison, playing it as a 16bit platformer made the game terrible because it was difficult to see far ahead but playing it in conjuction with the boost / invincibility button reduced the problem of accidently running into bad guys and changed the DS games genre from wonky platformer to platform racer which made the game infinitely more fun.

Did you play it in 4:3 or widescreen? 4:3 is more zoomed up than widescreen.

 

[faridmon]

A tier: Sonic Adventure
B tier: Sonic Adventure 2 - Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity
C tier: Sonic Riders - Sonic Advance 1 - Sonic Battle
D tier: Sonic Advance 2 - Sonic 2006
F tier: Sonic Unleashed - Sonic Chronicles - Sonic Advance 3 - Shadow the Hedgehog
...
Z tier: Sonic Heroes


Yes I enjoyed the Riders games, sue me.

WTF man. That shoul be bottom of hell. I have enjoyed Heroes more, and I'll tell ya: It makes Heroes look like Uncharted compared to that POS.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Sonic Heroes had serious control and camera issues, but I'll be damned if the bulk of the game wasn't competently designed. If it wasn't for the glaring lack of polish and the unnecessary "team" system, as well as the dumb "stop and fight enemies" sections, Heroes would be the best representation of Sonic in 3D thus far.

I'm glad that with Sonic Colors, Sonic Team took the best parts of Unleashed and expanded upon them, removing some of the issues of that game in favor of better design choices. I'm just sad that this didn't happen after Sonic Heroes, where Sega didn't work out the kinks of that game and release a "fixed" sort of follow-up, but rather, released the abomination called Shadow the Hedgehog.

Will Colors truly represent the first 3D Sonic game that's actively been pushed to remove the worst parts of its immediate predecessor and improve the best parts?

 

[Wizpig]

A tier: Sonic Adventure
B tier: Sonic Adventure 2 - Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity
C tier: Sonic Riders - Sonic Advance 1 - Sonic Battle
D tier: Sonic Advance 2 - Sonic 2006
F tier: Sonic Unleashed - Sonic Chronicles - Sonic Advance 3 - Shadow the Hedgehog
...
Z tier: Sonic Heroes


Yes I enjoyed the Riders games, sue me.

Heh, i'd put Shadow the Hedgehog near Sonic 2006 and remove Sonic Riders Zero Gravity since i never played it.

But otherwise i agree with this list... gasp.

Sonic Battle rocks.

ps. i'd also switch Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, or maybe both should be in A tier.

 

[The Technomancer]

Sonic Heroes had serious control and camera issues, but I'll be damned if the bulk of the game wasn't competently designed. If it wasn't for the glaring lack of polish and the unnecessary "team" system, as well as the dumb "stop and fight enemies" sections, Heroes would be the best representation of Sonic in 3D thus far.

I'm glad that with Sonic Colors, Sonic Team took the best parts of Unleashed and expanded upon them, removing some of the issues of that game in favor of better design choices. I'm just sad that this didn't happen after Sonic Heroes, where Sega didn't work out the kinks of that game and release a "fixed" sort of follow-up, but rather, released the abomination called Shadow the Hedgehog.

Will Colors truly represent the first 3D Sonic game that's actively been pushed to remove the worst parts of its immediate predecessor and improve the best parts?

Secret Rings was alright as well. I think it would have been a great Sonic game if it didn't have the worst control scheme to ever grace the Wii.

 

[Azure Phoenix]

WTF man. That shoul be bottom of hell. I have enjoyed Heroes more, and I'll tell ya: It makes Heroes look like Uncharted compared to that POS.

I look at it in terms of how much entertainment each game has provided, and Sonic 2006 has provided copious amounts of that with the Let's Play and various YouTube glitch videos.


Heroes meanwhile was quite frankly the worst Sonic game ever created. Ignoring the awful story, voice acting, music, boss battles, team fights, camera, special stages and the ridiculous amount of glitches, the fundamental gameplay was completely broken.

Both the speed and power formations are not just useless, they are completely dangerous. Most of the game is spent crawling around in flight formation to avoid being flung off the stage by the over-exaggerated lurches made by power characters attacking, or the skating on ice controls of the speed characters. Latter stages involve little more than flying between numerous combat sections as the game forces you to eliminate giant helmet wearing, hammer swinging robots on tiny platforms.

 

[zigg]

playing it as a 16bit platformer made the game terrible because it was difficult to see far ahead but playing it in conjuction with the boost / invincibility button reduced the problem of accidently running into bad guys and changed the DS games genre from wonky platformer to platform racer which made the game infinitely more fun.

That's pretty insightful. This is the second time I've played Colors DS—first was at E3—and I'm still not really sure about it. I kind of want the trick system back.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Secret Rings was alright as well. I think it would have been a great Sonic game if it didn't have the worst control scheme to ever grace the Wii.

For sure, Secret Rings was a really fun game in my opinion, and broke the chain of terrible 3D Sonics after Sonic 2006. I didn't mention it because it's a different sort of Sonic game, though. It took a different (though appreciable) angle, and was quite a refreshing game to play because of that, even though it did have some issues here and there (occasional control funkiness and level designs that sometimes clashed with on-rails gameplay).

You could say the storybook series had potential from the very beginning, but was squandered with the follow-up (Black Knight). I'd take the direction of Colors over the direction of another storybook game, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't love a proper, tweaked, direct sequel to Secret Rings (with that style of play) if given the choice.

 

[WillyFive]

A tier: Sonic Adventure
B tier: Sonic Adventure 2 - Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity
C tier: Sonic Riders - Sonic Advance 1 - Sonic Battle
D tier: Sonic Advance 2 - Sonic 2006
F tier: Sonic Unleashed - Sonic Chronicles - Sonic Advance 3 - Shadow the Hedgehog
...
Z tier: Sonic Heroes


Yes I enjoyed the Riders games, sue me.

Your opinion of Riders is irrelevant, lists like these make me mad.

Not only it doesn't make sense, I disagree with it.

 

[GoldandBlue]

I'm surprised a lot of people consider Sonic Adventure the best of the 3D games. Maybe it was different for me cause I played it after playing SA2 and found it to be so broken.

Sonic 2006 should always be at the very bottom as the worst of the 3D games.

 

[WillyFive]

I'm surprised a lot of people consider Sonic Adventure the best of the 3D games. Maybe it was different for me cause I played it after playing SA2 and found it to be so broken.

Sonic 2006 should always be at the very bottom as the worst of the 3D games.

Yeah, going from SA2 to SA1 makes you see that SA was simply unfinished when it came out. It was rushed to make the Japanese launch, and didn't bother to finish it for the English release, or the Gamecube remake, or the PC/360 port.