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Sonic Forces Switch is 720p on both handheld and docked...?

bobbychalkers said:
Not liking this trend of some high profile games doing nothing with docked mode. It’s probably a later port squeezed in just in time for launch. Im no dev expert but I’m sure that there isn’t a free docked mode preset switch in the dev kits somewhere so it makes me appreciate the devs that did the work in the games that do it. Portability is still a big selling point so if I get this game it would still be the Switch version.
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But like Oregano said above, it's literally no different from developing a PS4 Pro or XB1X spec mode. Do we know if this game will support those? If so, talking about additional work or resources to enable docked mode performance isn't a very good excuse.
 
Skittzo0413 said:
But like Oregano said above, it's literally no different from developing a PS4 Pro or XB1X spec mode. Do we know if this game will support those? If so, talking about additional work or resources to enable docked mode performance isn't a very good excuse.
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I think I read it runs in 4K on the Pro.
 
Dwayne said:
Played it docked at TGS, the performance was bad, below 30fps quite often. Felt bad because the person next to me was playing on PS4 :/
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Well, the final game counts and even when it's final there could be patches, like with many Switch games. (NBA2k18 runs smoother now too)
 
Skittzo0413 said:
But like Oregano said above, it's literally no different from developing a PS4 Pro or XB1X spec mode. Do we know if this game will support those? If so, talking about additional work or resources to enable docked mode performance isn't a very good excuse.
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If it sells they should patch it like it was done with Minecraft.
 
The fact that this game was clearly designed for PS4/XBO first makes me super wary of the Switch version. It sounds like they're trying to squeeze a game onto a system it wasn't made for.

If I get Forces (which is still a pretty big if), it'll definitely be on PS4. I love having portability but I don't want a demonstrably worse experience because of it.
 
Not sure if I want to support games that run at the same res in both modes. You have 2-2.5 times as much GPU power when docked, enough to hit a 720p -> 1080p conversion in some cases, and you’re telling me that you can’t even get to 900p?
 
TwilightPrincess said:
If it sells they should patch it like it was done with Minecraft.
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With Minecraft it was a bug with the engine IIRC, which made it difficult to perform the handheld to docked transition. Hopefully they can still patch in a higher performance docked mode but I doubt it's the same issue (for this and DOOM/Rocket League).

HotchieMotchie said:
The fact that this game was clearly designed for PS4/XBO first makes me super wary of the Switch version. It sounds like they're trying to squeeze a game onto a system it wasn't made for.

If I get Forces (which is still a pretty big if), it'll definitely be on PS4. I love having portability but I don't want a demonstrably worse experience because of it.
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It does feel like that, which makes it all the more strange that it was one of the first games officially announced for the Switch.
 
shiyrley said:
But why no resolution boost at all in docked mode? just... why?

We have heard the same "720p on both modes" thing in Doom, Rocket League and Sonic Forces now :/
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Maybe there are good technical reasons? Like the seamless transition requires mid- and high-res assets to be in memory all the time?
For example some shaders that would need to be replaced. Maybe they just run out of memory? Switch needs to operate with significantly less RAM than Xbone or PS4.



Just guessing, but "lazy devs" is usually not the answer. Especially when multiple devs do the same thing.
 
XaosWolf said:
If its anything like the demo I played at EGX then the Switch version will be awful.
It was all over the place performance wise and fucked with basic movement. So hoping that was completely ironed out but I did cancel my preorder just in case.
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I doubt the Switch version they've been showing will be an accurate representation of the final product since it doesn't seem to have been updated since E3, lacking the Tag Team level that's playable on the PS4/Xbone builds. In any case, they claim to have fixed it up near the end of development:

Of course, development on the Switch version was started after the other platforms. When the PS4 and Xbox One versions were in the alpha stage, the team was at the point in which they could run only one stage of the game on Nintendo’s console that really looked and felt like what they were aiming to. Even if the core content of the game was done, a lot of the development for the Switch version came right at the end, in order to customize Sonic Forces to make the best out of the hardware.

Even around the time of E3, the development team wasn’t yet sure if they’d make it in time. In the end, it’s all thanks to the use of a proprietary engine and to having full control of it, that they managed to really polish the game for the Switch during the final stages of development.
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Skittzo0413 said:
It does feel like that, which makes it all the more strange that it was one of the first games officially announced for the Switch.
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Sonic games always sell well on Nintendo systems so I'm guessing they felt the need to get the game on Switch even if it was completely compromised.
 
Welp, guess I'm skipping this game. I have no interest in playing a Sonic game at 30 fps—super fast gameplay means you need a high frame-rate as well. Maybe I'll pick up the game for PC down the line.

(And yes, I know Sonic Generations was 30 fps on console. That was stupid too.)
 
Wowfunhappy said:
Welp, guess I'm skipping this game. I have no interest in playing a Sonic game at 30 fps—super fast gameplay means you need a high frame-rate as well. Maybe I'll pick up the game for PC down the line.

(And yes, I know Sonic Generations was 30 fps on console. That was stupid too.)
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What are you even saying? Sonic Colors, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic Unleashed to name a few ran at 30fps. 60fps has never been a given for 3D Sonic.
 
jorgejjvr said:
Yet Odyssey can run at 900 p and 60 Fps??
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well. one is a first party game being developed exclusively for the system. Sonic Forces had shorter dev time plus lesser optimization. i think also Sonic could be pushing more stuff to a point the game cant run at 60,
 
pretty done said:
Just don't buy games that don't deserve it. I wouldn't buy anything 720p docked just like I wouldn't buy a game that ignores PS4 Pro support or a game that has Denuvo.
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720p docked is fine if they are using the extra you for other nice improvements, resolution is just one of several options to use spare power on (but it is one of the best options)
 
conpfreak said:
What are you even saying? Sonic Colors, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic Unleashed to name a few ran at 30fps. 60fps has never been a given for 3D Sonic.
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On PS3 Unleashed was unlocked to 60fps, Heroes ran at 60fps on Gamecube and PC I believe. Only colors was the one where there isn't a 60fps version officially at release (Colors can be ran at 60fps on Dolphin)
 
I'm interested to see if this fixes any of the complaints with 30fps. Would be and interesting solution for Doom too. Not particularly excited for Sonic Forces though.

shiyrley said:
Sonic Mania's existence proves you automatically wrong
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Absolutely this. Mania took me from someone who has never cared about Sonic games to someone who completed a Sonic game 4 times in a row.
 
JigglesBunny said:
720p is fine. 720p, 30 FPS is not.
Surely the Switch is powerful enough to handle Sonic Forces at 60 FPS, especially at 720p.
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Maybe they don't have enough time to optimise it for Switch or they don't want to dedicate additional resources for it. Which is pretty stupid, since the Switch version might end up being the best-selling one.
 
Camjo-Z said:
I doubt the Switch version they've been showing will be an accurate representation of the final product since it doesn't seem to have been updated since E3, lacking the Tag Team level that's playable on the PS4/Xbone builds. In any case, they claim to have fixed it up near the end of development:
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Yep, people are quick to panic when the majority of polish on these titles arrive at the end of production. While I doubt the fps will exceed 30, it should at the very least be locked.

Transistor said:
It's not really a hot take. There hasn't been a good 3D Sonic since Sonic Adventure 1. It's just a formula and it's really hard to get right and they keep failing at it
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The only formula I’m seeing here are hilariously out of touch posts like yours that ignore titles like Colors and Generations that were both beloved critically and received well by gamers alike. Keep ringing the “look at me” bell tho, it’s cute.
 
jorgejjvr said:
Yet Odyssey can run at 900 p and 60 Fps??
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Are you comparing a first party effort from one of Nintendo’s best devs on a console they designed for a title they can 100% focus on and optimise for one hardware architecture, versus a third party effort of a multiplatform game for a port of a title designed for hardware nearly 3 times more powerful than the Switch?

I’m honestly surprised Odyssey isn’t even 1080p!
 
gpg3k75.jpg
 
PeakPointMatrix said:
The only formula I’m seeing here are hilariously out of touch posts like yours that ignore titles like Colors and Generations that were both beloved critically and received well by gamers alike. Keep ringing the “look at me” bell tho, it’s cute.
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  1. 76-77 on Metacritic
  2. "Beloved critically"
🤔
 
Transistor said:
It's not really a hot take. There hasn't been a good 3D Sonic since Sonic Adventure 1. It's just a formula and it's really hard to get right and they keep failing at it
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Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations were both very good.

Even Sonic Lost World wasnt terrible. It was a mix of terrible ideas with really good ones.
 
That's unfortunate. This would have been the version to pick up for me, but it sounds pretty damn rough. PS4 Pro it is then, as the PC has Denuvo IIRC.
 
Diablohead said:
720p docked is fine if they are using the extra you for other nice improvements, resolution is just one of several options to use spare power on (but it is one of the best options)
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Native resolution is the first thing I set on my PC games. It single handedly is the biggest difference maker for clean IQ other than maybe a strong AA (which is also very taxing).

Regardless, 720p console games are not ok to me anymore. It was already annoying me in the PS3 gen, big no fucking thanks to it in 2017. Wii U was pushing 720p60 games and the docked Switch is allegedly twice as powerful.
 
pretty done said:
Native resolution is the first thing I set on my PC games. It single handedly is the biggest difference maker for clean IQ other than maybe a strong AA (which is also very taxing).

Regardless, 720p console games are not ok to me anymore. It was already annoying me in the PS3 gen, big no fucking thanks to it in 2017.Wii U was pushing 720p60 games and the docked Switch is allegedly twice as powerful.
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Different games on ANY console demand varying amounts of resources. Some devs can hit 1080p 60fps with their game, while others can only hit 720p 30fps in order to maintain performance. This is true for all console, but the floor for the PS4/Xbox is higher, with most games having 900p as the floor rather than 720p. In addition, some devs just aren't using the appropriate engine or optimizations to achieve higher resolutions and better framerates. This is true for all current consoles.

I have no clue where you're getting that a docked Switch is twice as powerful as a Wii U, or what that really adds to your argument considering the architectural differences between the two systems. The "twice as powerful" description is originated from GAF posts in Switch power threads (not a legitimate source) for undocked performance and just isn't a good statement to make to reason why Sega can't push higher resolution/frames with Sonic Forces on Switch.
 
I can accept the 30fps, but only if the graphical quality is not as abysmal as it was during E3 2017, and also only if the docked version sees further enhancements. If it justifies the use of the extra docked power in something else, that's okay even though I prefer resolution. But if it's literally just the same thing then I'll just buy this when it hits the bargain bin. And I'm not buying it on any other platform. It's either a good Switch port or a deep discount for me.
 
Chances are it's either dynamic resolution based on load or a sizeable jump in visual quality vs handheld mode.

Anything else would be completely unacceptable and I assumed this was the case for both Doom and Rocket League with Minecraft (patched anyway) just being an outlier.
(
Rukumouru said:
I can accept the 30fps, but only if the graphical quality is not as abysmal as it was during E3 2017, and also only if the docked version sees further enhancements. If it justifies the use of the extra docked power in something else, that's okay even though I prefer resolution. But if it's literally just the same thing then I'll just buy this when it hits the bargain bin. And I'm not buying it on any other platform. It's either a good Switch port or a deep discount for me.
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The game looked pretty similar to the PS4 version like Doom, but performance definitely wasn't there yet (also like Doom). The interview suggests the E3 build was created early in the Switch sku's development, so hopefully a locked 30fps is doable and they can bring motion blur back so that the game looks a little smoother than it is.
 
PeakPointMatrix said:
Oh right, I forgot being even one point below an 80 puts you in the unmitigated garbage category.

Demonstrably one of the most toxic mindsets that gamers carry today:

Grow up.
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I don't want to wade too much into this but the post he was responding to said "beloved critically".

I wouldn't say whipping out the Metacritic chart over a game that scored 78 in this context is really a good idea.

If it was "liked by critics", sure.
 
Camjo-Z said:
I doubt the Switch version they've been showing will be an accurate representation of the final product since it doesn't seem to have been updated since E3, lacking the Tag Team level that's playable on the PS4/Xbone builds. In any case, they claim to have fixed it up near the end of development:
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If that was the case, you'd think they would have had a better build to showcase than just recycling the E3 build again. The PS4 and XBO versions got updated builds for Gamescom and those were the builds used for TGS and EGX. To continue using the E3 build so close to the game's release isn't really a good outlook.

That's to say nothing of questioning why would they demonstrate the Switch version to the public, if it's running in such a shoddy state to begin with. At least two recent EGX previews declared it the worst-performing Switch game on the show floor.

PeakPointMatrix said:
Oh right, I forgot being even one point below an 80 puts you in the unmitigated garbage category.

Demonstrably one of the most toxic mindsets that gamers carry today:

Grow up.
Click to expand...

HotchieMotchie said:
A 77 MC is fine. Acting like it's a bad score is silly.
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76-78 isn't a bad metascore, but it's far from indicative from "critically beloved" material either. It's on the higher end of what's considered an average mean of metascores (70+). It's near the top of a large pile of games with okay scores, which are still covered by a large pile of games with better scores.

Outside of maybe some diehard Sonic fans, nobody talks about Colors or Generations in the same vein as, say, DKC Returns, Rayman Legends, or Super Mario Galaxy; they aren't considered exceptional games like those titles. Those are games who have the reviews, metascores (87, 85-92, 97), and general reputation overall to match that "critically beloved" description.
 
Diprosalic said:
Sonic needs to die.
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This comment would’ve made sense years ago. But after games like Mania...that ain’t happening 😉

Colours and Generations are (especially the latter - hence my interest in Forces) also great games.

And I keep forgetting to mention Rush. An underrated gem (and probably Dimps’ best 2D Sonic effort).

I’m impressed they even got this to run on Switch though. I’m more likely to get it for PS4 though. I like portability- but the game doesn’t look amazing compared to other consoles. We’ll see)
 
PeakPointMatrix said:
Oh right, I forgot being even one point below an 80 puts you in the unmitigated garbage category.
Click to expand...

It's kind of true though. It's not as extreme as that image you posted, but this is how most reviews are scored.

Generally speaking, ≤6 = 1 star, 7 = 2 stars, 8 = three stars, 9 = four stars, ~9.5+ = five stars.

You can hate it—and I do hate it—but it's the reality right now.
 
Rolling my eyes every time now a Sonic-related thread is bombed with "Sonic sucks" and Mania masturbation posts. I'd rather have switch port begging going forward.
 
00ich said:
Maybe there are good technical reasons? Like the seamless transition requires mid- and high-res assets to be in memory all the time?
For example some shaders that would need to be replaced. Maybe they just run out of memory? Switch needs to operate with significantly less RAM than Xbone or PS4.

Just guessing, but "lazy devs" is usually not the answer. Especially when multiple devs do the same thing.
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Multiple devs in this case would be two (Sonic Team, Panic Button). We have many more examples of developers managing resolution or performance shifts in docked/portable modes (Nintendo EPD, Square Enix BD6, Omega Force, Bandai Namco Studios, Capcom, Terminal Reality, Ubisoft Milan, Ubisoft Paris, O-Two, Tokyo RPG Factory, Acquire, 4J Studios, Dimps, Visual Concepts, Ganbarion, Hexadrive, TT Fusion, Marvelous, Tose Software, EA Canada, etc, etc). I don’t think “lazy devs” is the answer either but it’s also pretty clearly not a hardware issue at play considering so many other studios are pulling it off, even with PS4/XB1/PC ports.

Also RAM isn’t so dramatically different due to Switch’s much smaller OS footprint. PS4 and XB1 both give devs 5GB (3GB reserved) while Switch gives them 3.25GB (0.75GB reserved) to work with.
 
pretty done said:
Native resolution is the first thing I set on my PC games. It single handedly is the biggest difference maker for clean IQ other than maybe a strong AA (which is also very taxing).

Regardless, 720p console games are not ok to me anymore. It was already annoying me in the PS3 gen, big no fucking thanks to it in 2017. Wii U was pushing 720p60 games and the docked Switch is allegedly twice as powerful.
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I won't defend Sega being shit tier with forces, I agree.

Most likely they are probably just upping the render distance and shadows with a value toggle, the most basic boost mode toggles.
 
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