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[MMaRsu]

Sonic Mania was fine but better than S3&K ? Certainly not. I understand that this guy needs support but let's not exaggerate.

I mean maybe not.. But at least this game doesnt have that garbage egypt level -_-

But its been a long time since I played through sk3 all the way, yeah its probably still the better game but to me, as a guy who grew up with classic Sonic, and hated almost all the 3d ones, I think Mania is at least as good as Sk3.

The ost alone and the few original stages are insane. The encore mode really changes the levels layout for first stages too. Game is amazing imo.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sounds like this guy needs to get a normal FT job, instead of dicking around for contract work and KS campaigns in the video game industry.

He's probably skilled enough to do graphics or programming for large companies, but is trying to live the dream of game maker.

 

[MMaRsu]

Sounds like this guy needs to get a normal FT job, instead of dicking around for contract work and KS campaigns in the video game industry.

He's probably skilled enough to do graphics or programming for large companies, but is trying to live the dream of game maker.

Man you sure sound like a dickhead, someone is trying to make his dream come true but fuck him cause game makers right

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Man you sure sound like a dickhead, someone is trying to make his dream come true but fuck him cause game makers right

I'm not the one who is 40 years old (googled it), was living in my mom's home, broke, and looking for KS money for sake of creating a job for himself.

Game makers have done nothing wrong. He did work. They paid him. The deal is over.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yup... and if you are worth that HR will pay up and tell you to keep it quiet not to start an avalanche of raises .

Still, the main point of that “cost of living” but was to ensure people had transparency in how the money was spent and nobody cried foul if part of the money was also used to pay for food, mortgage payments, etc... stuff you would not tell your employer, but you need to tell to those that kind of finance you.

Also, we are taking of what $800-900 a month after taxes and Kickstarter fees (9-10 people for 2 years)?

Who knows how much this guy got paid to work on Sonic Mania.

As for KS campaigns, the money is supposed to go towards the actual product development, and not to pay for someone's home, car payments and monthly sub plan to Hulu.

Now some people will say, the KS people are broke and the point is for the money to go to making the product and for living costs. Well, if that's the case, say it.

But I bet zero KS campaigns will tell you that $100,000 goal is actually $50k product development, and $50k to cover food and rent and salaries.

If you go for a business loan asking for $1,000,000 to set up a store, the bank wants to know how much goes to paying people annual wages, and how much actually goes for leasing and buying shit to stock shelves and insurance.

If you go for a mortgage, it goes to the home. If you need $300,000 to buy a home, you get a mortgage for $300,000. You don't ask a bank for $500,000, where $200,000 of it goes to your bank account to pay for a car and a pool table. Although it can be done with second mortgages, but the onus is you have to pay it back with legally binding contracts. With KS, they can walk and there's nothing you can do about it aside from the handful of good natured people I've read who gave back the funds.

The problem is all these KS ask for money, half of them probably don't even materialize, and you have no idea how much of the funds raised goes to their living costs vs. the product vs. buying stupid shit.

 

[CrustyBritches]

I don't care to judge this guy and his personal life. Do whatever it takes to make your dream come true.

However, that's a lot of money for what was being shown. MindSeize is game I find comparable, even more polished and exciting, and it had a $20k goal with $26k funding.




Once again, only love and respect to Headcannon and all other indie devs striving to make their dreams come true. For $250k, I think you need to bring a lot more heat with the prototype vid than what was shown. Run another KS with $30k goal, do most of the work yourself and hire the rest out as piecemeal freelance work. That's where I would start.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Once again, only love and respect to Headcannon and all other indie devs striving to make their dreams come true. For $250k, I think you need to bring a lot more heat with the prototype vid than what was shown. Run another KS with $30k goal, do most of the work yourself and hire the rest out as piecemeal freelance work. That's where I would start.

For a $275k KS ask, it better be a decent indie game.

The OP thread did say the money he made off Sonic Mania let him pay off debts, move out and buy a used car.

Call me pessimistic, the guy probably wants a big KS goal so he can now buy the place he moved into.

 

[CrustyBritches]

For a $275k KS ask, it better be a decent indie game.

The OP thread did say the money he made off Sonic Mania let him pay off debts, move out and buy a used car.

Call me pessimistic, the guy probably wants a big KS goal so he can now buy the place he moved into.

It's good he was able to better his life with the Sonic money. I'm not sure what his thinking was with that high of a goal, but I'm assuming he figured he didn't have much to lose by trying to capitalize off his Sonic Mania fame and success.

I prefer to focus on the actual product and not his personal life. Vertebreaker as presented in the trailer is not a $250k project, and the funding reflected that. My advice is to look at KickStarter as a stepping stone to larger funding. KS is "all-or-nothing", so even if you're $1 short you get nothing. Setting a goal like $25-30k gets you funds to make another, but much better prototype and video that goes onto IndieGoGo or other funding site while you run a paypal/patreon donation push on the side, or seek higher levels of private investment.

I myself suffered from overconfidence on many occasions. I like this graph for Dunning-Kruger as an example of what I'd call "The Process":

I think all of us go through these trials for a reason. It will make or break you. If you can accept your folly and work hard, eventually you will reach the "Plateau of Sustainability".

 

[cireza]

yeah its probably still the better game but to me

I did not mean to enforce my opinion on you, sorry about that.

Overall there are many reasons that make me think S3&K is the superior game, I think that it offers more variety in terms of gameplay and what you have to do to progress. Sonic Mania is mainly composed of large levels with a "go fast" level-design. Platforming is still there, but never as exigent as in S3&K.

Sonic Mania is typically the kind of sequel that takes what worked and builds a "no risk" game on it. It does not advance the series anywhere, it si simply more of the same. A lot of people are satisfied with these kind of experiences these days, but I get bored pretty fast if nothing meaningful is added to the formula.

 

[Von Hugh]

Nothing but "Evil is about to get boned" as the text on the Kickstarter project's description, and the same visuals as in every single other 2D kickstarted game.

I can see how it failed.

 

[DrNeroCF]

How many of those sites reporting on the cancelation ran an article about the Kickstarter in the first place? You'd think 'from a developer of Sonic Mania' would hold decent weight. And honestly, the gameplay shown looks really fun.

As an indie myself, I'm just terrified by how winners and losers are chosen.

 

[EDMIX]

How many of those sites reporting on the cancelation ran an article about the Kickstarter in the first place? You'd think 'from a developer of Sonic Mania' would hold decent weight. And honestly, the gameplay shown looks really fun.

As an indie myself, I'm just terrified by how winners and losers are chosen.

I'm not.

If its interesting it will get the support by fans, if not.....then it will fail. I feel its only fair.

 

[DrNeroCF]

I'm not.

If its interesting it will get the support by fans, if not.....then it will fail. I feel its only fair.

What fans? Most replies here say they haven’t heard of the game. Sure I’d like to think there’s a ‘if you build it they will come’ effect with good games, but sometimes I just think it’s more about what information is more viral.

The spiritual successor to, or dumb physics game for YouTubers, or game made by spreads easier than interesting gameplay.

The cynic in me thinks we hear about games because of how many journalists follow their Twitter, or how clickbaity the headline can be than anything.

 

[Punished Miku]

Sega should hire the guy fulltime. Or any other good developer should give a talented person like him a chance.

Did he even apply? Sounds like he's trying to be indie, put all his eggs in one basket with zero marketing and is now falling apart.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm not.

If its interesting it will get the support by fans, if not.....then it will fail. I feel its only fair.

I agree.

It's one part marketing and getting the KS game noticed, but ultimately it comes down whether KS backers care about.

I finally watched the video of what Vertebreaker is..... is a 16-bit side scroller. Like the million other indie games out there, and endless legacy platformers on Genesis and SNES.

I never heard of it. And I didn't care for Sonic Mania, so I never knew who Headcannon and this guy are either until this thread.

Some KS campaigns succeed, some don't.

How is it that some out of the blue fantasy board game or card game succeeds, but not a video game? I don't know. But some succeed and fail. And maybe that monster board game with detailed plastic figurines is a big enough draw I guess.

For gaming, it sure seems like many indie games are made from the heart. Sounds noble, but doesn't mean everyone else wants it. And according to the Vertebreaker KS campaign, it was cancelled at 480 backers. So out of the 100s of million of gamers out there, only 480 cared enough to donate.

Maybe what some indie game makers should do is get some insight from gamers what they want before rolling the dice on a personal interest. Did Headcannon try to get interest from forums if a 16-bit side scroller with that art and game mechanics is worth making? Was there a response? Or was it an indie blindly going after a personal dream of making something and hoping everyone likes it?

 

[Punished Miku]

I agree.

It's one part marketing and getting the KS game noticed, but ultimately it comes down whether KS backers care about.

I finally watched the video of what Vertebreaker is..... is a 16-bit side scroller. Like the million other indie games out there, and endless legacy platformers on Genesis and SNES.

I never heard of it. And I didn't care for Sonic Mania, so I never knew who Headcannon and this guy are either until this thread.

Some KS campaigns succeed, some don't.

How is it that some out of the blue fantasy board game or card game succeeds, but not a video game? I don't know. But some succeed and fail. And maybe that monster board game with detailed plastic figurines is a big enough draw I guess.

For gaming, it sure seems like many indie games are made from the heart. Sounds noble, but doesn't mean everyone else wants it. And according to the Vertebreaker KS campaign, it was cancelled at 480 backers. So out of the 100s of million of gamers out there, only 480 cared enough to donate.

Maybe what some indie game makers should do is get some insight from gamers what they want before rolling the dice on a personal interest. Did Headcannon try to get interest from forums if a 16-bit side scroller with that art and game mechanics is worth making? Was there a response? Or was it an indie blindly going after a personal dream of making something and hoping everyone likes it?

My only real shock is that he didn't just get a programming or IT job. They pay pretty well. If you're at the point that you don't even have a car, like, work 6 months at a company, and then work 6 months on your game. Or work just part time. Even if you work 8 hours a day at another job, it is possible to still work on a game at least partially. I work 16 hr days at my job all the time.

The guy seems to be hurting, and it seems totally unnecessary. I guess that's the gamble though. If the KS succeeded, then he wouldn't need that job and it would be awesome. I sure as hell don't want to work my job either. He rolled the dice and cut it a bit too close.

Sounds like he should build a better support system and then keep moving forward on his indie projects. The Bioware founders were doctors before they ever went into game development. My brothers have always had a serious metal band that they've poured thousands into on recording albums and touring, but they never gave up their day jobs.

Oh well, I wish him the best. It's easy to poke at someone when they're down. If his KS worked, then he'd be right and I'd be wrong. I think he should just pick up the pieces and try again while supporting himself a bit better. It's not a good balance. If he makes it big, he can drop the job.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

My only real shock is that he didn't just get a programming or IT job. They pay pretty well. If you're at the point that you don't even have a car, like, work 6 months at a company, and then work 6 months on your game. Or work just part time. Even if you work 8 hours a day at another job, it is possible to still work on a game at least partially. I work 16 hr days at my job all the time.

The guy seems to be hurting, and it seems totally unnecessary. I guess that's the gamble though. If the KS succeeded, then he wouldn't need that job and it would be awesome. I sure as hell don't want to work my job either. He rolled the dice and cut it a bit too close.

Sounds like he should build a better support system and then keep moving forward on his indie projects. The Bioware founders were doctors before they ever went into game development. My brothers have always had a serious metal band that they've poured thousands into on recording albums and touring, but they never gave up their day jobs.

Oh well, I wish him the best. It's easy to poke at someone when they're down. If his KS worked, then he'd be right and I'd be wrong. I think he should just pick up the pieces and try again while supporting himself a bit better. It's not a good balance. If he makes it big, he can drop the job.

Well said.

That's life being an independent or contract worker.

Freedom.

But, you got to pay the bills and be aggressive and land gigs. No steady 9-5 FT job with perks and corporate pension contributions.

Kind of worked for Sonic Mania as he paid off debts and moved out, but likely not working out lately...... which basically means he's in beggar mode lately.

 

[EDMIX]

What fans? Most replies here say they haven’t heard of the game.

I guess that is something this person needs to work on then. Clearly they didn't market well enough.

 

[Fake]

Sonic Mania was fine but better than S3&K ? Certainly not. I understand that this guy needs support but let's not exaggerate.

Agree. S3&K still the king of Sonic games. Its not like saying Mania is bad, but S3&K is better. Mania is for me a great 8,5 game IMO, but Mania still have some flaws in the spin mechanic and terrible checkpoint bonus aka pinball.

 

[stranno]

Humble Sonic Bundle 2019

Pay what you want for awesome games and support charity!

www.humblebundle.com

Sonic Mania has been included as the top tier content in the latest HB, so maybe we will get some more money (i guess).

 

[Solarstrike]

I don't think people realize that if $100,000 (example) is donated to a Kickstarter, it means Uncle Sam is waiting not too far behind demanding at least half in taxes.

 

[ultrazilla]

Humble Sonic Bundle 2019

Pay what you want for awesome games and support charity!

www.humblebundle.com

Sonic Mania has been included as the top tier content in the latest HB, so maybe we will get some more money (i guess).

No. He doesn't have a royalties contract with Sega. He did his contracted work, was paid and that was it.

 

[Enjay]

As an indie myself, I'm just terrified by how winners and losers are chosen.

Don't ever ask for six figures of money to develop a 16-bit era game you'll do better than this.

 

[McCheese]

Don't ever ask for six figures of money to develop a 16-bit era game you'll do better than this.

100k after taxes is like one and a half developers for a year, maybe not even that.

 

[James Holden]

How the fuck is there not a Sonic Mania 2 in active development with this dude hard at work and ably employed?

 

[Coolwhhip]

Life is harsh.

 

[nocsi]

I don't think people realize that if $100,000 (example) is donated to a Kickstarter, it means Uncle Sam is waiting not too far behind demanding at least half in taxes.

Yea and there's a reason for that. Backers are essentially giving free cash to these projects with no binding equity nor guarantee of return. You can actually get real investors for projects without having to rob people on kickstarter

 

[nocsi]

I don't think people realize that if $100,000 (example) is donated to a Kickstarter, it means Uncle Sam is waiting not too far behind demanding at least half in taxes.

Yea and there's a reason for that. Backers are essentially giving free cash to these projects with no binding equity nor guarantee of return. You can actually get real investors for projects without having to rob people on kickstarter

 

[KormaChameleon]

Meanwhile greedy publishers rip off people on a daily basis, make tons and tons of money, while talented folks like him are in financial problems. This industry infuriates me.

This is partly the reason why I did not want to work in the industry after getting a degree in the subject because of this. So I am currently in the process of applying to be a PCSO for police instead.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Sounds like this guy needs to get a normal FT job, instead of dicking around for contract work and KS campaigns in the video game industry.

If everyone looked for "real FT" jobs, there wouldn't such a thing as FT jobs in the first place.

You can actually get real investors for projects without having to rob people on kickstarter

Real investors will usually be more careful with their money... but they will give out more individually, and take ownership of your company in exchange for their investment.

Losing 5 or 50$ to someone who really tried is not so upsetting - it becomes fraud / stealing when people just take the money to party and end up never sitting in front of the computer to deliver on their promise.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

This is rough.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

100k after taxes is like one and a half developers for a year, maybe not even that.

if a company makes 100 000$ and they give it all as salary uncle Sam won't collect a dime of it (Sam will collect it from the employee's income), uncle Sam only taxes profits (basically), but there is always sales taxes, these are something else (but should still be removed from your comapnie's profits for the spending it does.

 

[Kenshin775]

Sad to hear, He made the best Sonic game this millenium you'd think the least sega could do would be to give the guy a steady job/income.

This is Stealth right? So it seems this is exactly what Sega did.

 

[PhaseJump]

2 and half years from now. I too, hope someone quotes me and asks me a stupid question on a gaming forum.

 

[baphomet]

This is Stealth right? So it seems this is exactly what Sega did.

You bumped a multi year old thread to make a random response.

good job

 

[MaKTaiL]

I read Santa Monica Dev at first and got really confused.

 

[EDMIX]

lol

I do like looking back years later seeing what I said and if I changed my mind or not.

I still believe its completely fair and if you contract you are owed nothing more then the agreed upon terms. Nothing is a guaranteed success no matter how hard you work. How many times have we seen amazing games, well designed, little to no bugs, creative, yet very little sales? It happens, but we can't measure such a thing based on someone's will or heart alone....a factor is how the market responds and it matters not how good something might be, if its marketed poorly and very little know of it. Looking back now, Sonic Mania did like millions of units, the team had their chance to strike while that iron was hot and get the word out, yet even if you do the best job, it doesn't mean everyone will bit and support a project even if nothing is wrong the marketing.

You can see a funny ad today, doesn't mean you'll buy said product.

It happens that way (leaves opening for lolz BF joke)

 

[Rodolink]

But he could get a decent job at a games studio having on his CV "Made Sonic Mania"

 

[StreetsofBeige]

But he could get a decent job at a games studio having on his CV "Made Sonic Mania"

Some people want this in life:

- Pays a lot
- Be your own boss
- Freedom
- Dream job
- Not tied down with bank loans or any kind of formal legal agreement requiring paying it back

And if it means begging on Kickstarter, they'll do it.

 

[jigglet]

Shame one of the seemingly legit kickstarters struggle while there are so many successful scams out there. Maybe he should have pitched an idea for something like Mega Men

 

[Shubh_C63]

Being your own boss is risky.
But I refuse to believe he isn't talented enough to get a job in any video game company. Atleast make a decent living before turning to your passion.

 

[sinnergy]

But he could get a decent job at a games studio having on his CV "Made Sonic Mania"

Yup, but it had been years .. so who knows .

 

[01011001]

someone's been diggin

 

[EDMIX]

Some people want this in life:

- Pays a lot
- Be your own boss
- Freedom
- Dream job
- Not tied down with bank loans or any kind of formal legal agreement requiring paying it back

And if it means begging on Kickstarter, they'll do it.

Yup, thats true a lot. I have nothing against that either as shit, I work independently and own several small businesses, my ass has no plans to work for anyone else, but what this person is trying to do, it might require a few more contracts before such a thing is done, or they need to work in the dark for a bit, for free, making something as a team with the idea they'll pay themselves later when the game is a hit or something. I've yet to do any Kickstarter for any business, thats not to say I won't need such a thing in the future, simply that I need to prove my worth in some industry before anyone values what is being made to give money BEFORE the thing comes out or something.

They just need to grind, stay hungry and keep their heads down working on some indie game or take on contracts until they can make that dream indie studio or something.

 

[93xfan]

Sad to hear, He made the best Sonic game this millenium you'd think the least sega could do would be to give the guy a steady job/income.

100% agree. Someone should absolutely hire this guy.

 

[Majukun]

considering sonic mania is good CV, he shouls try to apply for being part of a bigger developer fir now...he will lose independence and creative freedom..but he will not be broke anymore

 

[Whitecrow]

Honestly Mania wasnt that good, it was just not bad, and above other worse Sonic titles.

Mania played it safe, and had no true identity since it was just a high resolution remaster with mostly rehashed zones and the same gameplay of the originals.

It really shows that the game was there only to appeal to nostalgia, without any kind of vision for it.

 

[Spaceman292]

considering sonic mania is good CV, he shouls try to apply for being part of a bigger developer fir now...he will lose independence and creative freedom..but he will not be broke anymore

He could probably have just strolled into any game dev studio and said 'I'm the dude who made Sonic Mania.' Most people would give him a job.

 

[ghairat]

Honestly Mania wasnt that good, it was just not bad, and above other worse Sonic titles.

Mania played it safe, and had no true identity since it was just a high resolution remaster with mostly rehashed zones and the same gameplay of the originals.

It really shows that the game was there only to appeal to nostalgia, without any kind of vision for it.

It is in my opinion the best 2d sonic game

 

[Bonfires Down]

Just letting aspiring developers know what they’re in for if they intend to sell a mostly standard 2D platformer: