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Analysis Sony certifying 5.5Gb/s raw SSDs as additional PS5 storage is is worrying - heres how and why

Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
it stresses me out to a Level that iam exhausted.

 

Guilty_AI

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No. He's upset over the fact that the biggest tech advantage the PS5 has will potentially not be taken advantage of. The advantage Cerny spent literally 30 minutes shoving down our throat. The advantage that came at the cost of more graphical power. The advantage that came at the cost of fewer storage.

But you already knew what he meant and were being facetious, right?
Its almost like all of that was just PR talk trying to play up a product they wanted to sell.

Advice: Throw all this spec talk and number wars in the trash and just go back to playing games without worrying too much what speed your plastic box storage is running at.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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Ok i finally enforced me to write this up. I did not wanted to because it stresses me out to a Level that iam exhausted. Exhausted by the realisation that internaly Sony is seeing PC as a very very big Source of Income and that they will do almost everything to make sure that Ports to PC will be possible easy and fast. Even cripple their own consolewich they spend Millions on to develop..

Ok lets dive in:

Cerny said in his Talk that PS5s internal SSD has 5.5Gb raw speed. And additional 4 priority Levels in comparision to normal Nand Drives. They come with 2. So PS5s SSD can use 6. Just a little later Cerny stated that in order to be on par with PS5s internal SSD the Third Party SSD would need to have some additional Speed to even out the missing 4 Priority Levels. Probably the Kraken Controllers job to synthesize 4 more prio lvls with the additional speed.

So much for that Talk and the Perspective he laid out.

so in Oktober last Year we heard that Western Digital would release the first PS5 certified Third Party SSD with their sn850 here the Article about that :

It was then also no suprise that the sn850 would bring a 7Gb raw Throughput on the table. Very much the overhead that we assumed would be neccessary to make up for missing 4 priority Lvls.

After that came nothing from Sony at all about the Third Party SSDs.. until NOW..

But what we miss here is what has happend within Sony in exactly that timespan inbetween the first report about WDs sn850 and this beta invitation with the infromation that a mere 5.5Gb would miraciously befast enough for PS5...
Off course it is about Sony engagement in PC gaming.
What was heard in that timespan?

Sony released more Exclusives and inofficial info about Uncharted4 and other Exclusives made it to the public. They bought Nixxes and everybody understands this as a move to help their PCPort strategy.

So they rated around summer last year the WD sn850 to be sufficiently fast enough to be on par with PS5s internal SSD.

Then came this big BIIG Intrest for PC Gaming to light.
And all of a sudden 5.5GB is enough to be "on par" with PS5s internal SSD?

The Thing is - 5.5GB will never be fast enough to be on par with the same SSD that has 4 Priority Levels more in its Sleeve.
The Problem here is sadly - while this is true - we never find out how much true it is.

Because:
We know that this SSD in the PS5 was planned to be used as a leverage for 9GB/s realtime datastreaming . First title who datastream in realtime many GB/s was Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart. Insomniac tweeded out that they make use of real time datastreaming and that everything you do not see on screen is not in memory. - hence every move of the camera will induce a realtime stream of Data comming of the SSD.

So Ratchet and Clank seemingly work fine with a 5.5GB Third Party SSD like some ealry adopters of the beta Programm and indeed Insomniac themselfs point out . But Ratchet and Clank is far from using PS5 potential with they claimed openly in the DF Interview with John Linneman. They said (paraphrasing here) :,, we found out that our engine needs to be updated to be able to handle so much data at once."

So their Game cannot be a Benchmark for Third Party SSD at all.
Or can it?

If Sony allowes 5.5GB SSDs then no Devs Third Party or Sony Studios alike could make a Game that would need a SSD that needs a raw speed of 7GB/s period
That Train has left.

9Gb/s (up to 22GBs) Throughput of PS5 that Train has left too. I cannot imagine that they did not incorporate the PS5s additional 4 Prio Levels in these Numbers.
So since no further overhead available to the Kraken Controller there is no additional 4 Prio Lvls available for PS5 Exclusives also. Even on the PS5s internal SSD!! This Ghost is out of the Bottle and cannot be put back into it. Since all available Third Party SSD do not have those 6 Prio lvls , Developers now need to all the Time assume that someone puts a 5.5GB raw SSD with 2 prio lvls in his PS5.

PS5 Downgraded - one year after Release . Absolutly amazing!!!



And why????

because their internal projections were as such that PC Gamers will only very slowly adopt 7GB nand Storage and it would be immensly difficult (or outright impossible) to port Games form Sony Studios wich leveraged the full PS5s I/O capabilitys in the development of their respective exclusive Title.

With that of course is the dream over for immensly more detailed worlds wich would need 9GB/s of realtime Datastreaming. I could imagine also that they internaly tested this 5.5Gb/s to be equvivalent to Xbox capabilitys, further reducing PS5 specific Dev Effort..
Because to me a 5.5GB/s SSD with only 2 Prio Levels instead of PS5s internal 6 sounds quite like what the Xbox could dream to achieve with its mere 2.5Gb/s Storage.

I am sure that iam not to far off here in regards of all my assumptions and what sealed the deal here for me were actually the Twitters Actions of Insomniac Fitzgerald and Cerny himself.

First that Fitzgerald wrote this "5.5Gb oh yeah its fine its fine we tested it yada yada" Tin Can. He was pushed on that stage like a Clown on a Pub Stage by someone higher than him to go and write something the more technical PS5 Fans would swallow.

And when Cerny actually gave his recommendation for the "suprise" WD sn850,( remember ? It was rated last year under Sonys "old" Strategy , when PS5 capabilitys weren´t thrown under the bus for some more sells on PC) it was clear that he also is not happy with this decision. Clearly he is not. How could he?

Sony says 5.5GB raw is enough and the system architect recommends a 7Gb/s raw Storage?? Sounds like "civil disobidience" to me.
Hopefully this 5.5GB/s recommendation is pulled / denied/ dismissed so this this wall of text here has no validiy anymore.
I hope i am wrong. But i am not, iam afraid..
I stopped reading and saw the OP's real intentions after it said this.

"Sony is seeing PC as a very very big Source of Income and that they will do almost everything to make sure that Ports to PC"
 

SlimySnake

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Feb 5, 2013
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Ok i finally enforced me to write this up. I did not wanted to because it stresses me out to a Level that iam exhausted. Exhausted by the realisation that internaly Sony is seeing PC as a very very big Source of Income and that they will do almost everything to make sure that Ports to PC will be possible easy and fast. Even cripple their own consolewich they spend Millions on to develop..

Ok lets dive in:

Cerny said in his Talk that PS5s internal SSD has 5.5Gb raw speed. And additional 4 priority Levels in comparision to normal Nand Drives. They come with 2. So PS5s SSD can use 6. Just a little later Cerny stated that in order to be on par with PS5s internal SSD the Third Party SSD would need to have some additional Speed to even out the missing 4 Priority Levels. Probably the Kraken Controllers job to synthesize 4 more prio lvls with the additional speed.

So much for that Talk and the Perspective he laid out.

so in Oktober last Year we heard that Western Digital would release the first PS5 certified Third Party SSD with their sn850 here the Article about that :

It was then also no suprise that the sn850 would bring a 7Gb raw Throughput on the table. Very much the overhead that we assumed would be neccessary to make up for missing 4 priority Lvls.

After that came nothing from Sony at all about the Third Party SSDs.. until NOW..

But what we miss here is what has happend within Sony in exactly that timespan inbetween the first report about WDs sn850 and this beta invitation with the infromation that a mere 5.5Gb would miraciously befast enough for PS5...
Off course it is about Sony engagement in PC gaming.
What was heard in that timespan?

Sony released more Exclusives and inofficial info about Uncharted4 and other Exclusives made it to the public. They bought Nixxes and everybody understands this as a move to help their PCPort strategy.

So they rated around summer last year the WD sn850 to be sufficiently fast enough to be on par with PS5s internal SSD.

Then came this big BIIG Intrest for PC Gaming to light.
And all of a sudden 5.5GB is enough to be "on par" with PS5s internal SSD?

The Thing is - 5.5GB will never be fast enough to be on par with the same SSD that has 4 Priority Levels more in its Sleeve.
The Problem here is sadly - while this is true - we never find out how much true it is.

Because:
We know that this SSD in the PS5 was planned to be used as a leverage for 9GB/s realtime datastreaming . First title who datastream in realtime many GB/s was Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart. Insomniac tweeded out that they make use of real time datastreaming and that everything you do not see on screen is not in memory. - hence every move of the camera will induce a realtime stream of Data comming of the SSD.

So Ratchet and Clank seemingly work fine with a 5.5GB Third Party SSD like some ealry adopters of the beta Programm and indeed Insomniac themselfs point out . But Ratchet and Clank is far from using PS5 potential with they claimed openly in the DF Interview with John Linneman. They said (paraphrasing here) :,, we found out that our engine needs to be updated to be able to handle so much data at once."

So their Game cannot be a Benchmark for Third Party SSD at all.
Or can it?

If Sony allowes 5.5GB SSDs then no Devs Third Party or Sony Studios alike could make a Game that would need a SSD that needs a raw speed of 7GB/s period
That Train has left.

9Gb/s (up to 22GBs) Throughput of PS5 that Train has left too. I cannot imagine that they did not incorporate the PS5s additional 4 Prio Levels in these Numbers.
So since no further overhead available to the Kraken Controller there is no additional 4 Prio Lvls available for PS5 Exclusives also. Even on the PS5s internal SSD!! This Ghost is out of the Bottle and cannot be put back into it. Since all available Third Party SSD do not have those 6 Prio lvls , Developers now need to all the Time assume that someone puts a 5.5GB raw SSD with 2 prio lvls in his PS5.

PS5 Downgraded - one year after Release . Absolutly amazing!!!



And why????

because their internal projections were as such that PC Gamers will only very slowly adopt 7GB nand Storage and it would be immensly difficult (or outright impossible) to port Games form Sony Studios wich leveraged the full PS5s I/O capabilitys in the development of their respective exclusive Title.

With that of course is the dream over for immensly more detailed worlds wich would need 9GB/s of realtime Datastreaming. I could imagine also that they internaly tested this 5.5Gb/s to be equvivalent to Xbox capabilitys, further reducing PS5 specific Dev Effort..
Because to me a 5.5GB/s SSD with only 2 Prio Levels instead of PS5s internal 6 sounds quite like what the Xbox could dream to achieve with its mere 2.5Gb/s Storage.

I am sure that iam not to far off here in regards of all my assumptions and what sealed the deal here for me were actually the Twitters Actions of Insomniac Fitzgerald and Cerny himself.

First that Fitzgerald wrote this "5.5Gb oh yeah its fine its fine we tested it yada yada" Tin Can. He was pushed on that stage like a Clown on a Pub Stage by someone higher than him to go and write something the more technical PS5 Fans would swallow.

And when Cerny actually gave his recommendation for the "suprise" WD sn850,( remember ? It was rated last year under Sonys "old" Strategy , when PS5 capabilitys weren´t thrown under the bus for some more sells on PC) it was clear that he also is not happy with this decision. Clearly he is not. How could he?

Sony says 5.5GB raw is enough and the system architect recommends a 7Gb/s raw Storage?? Sounds like "civil disobidience" to me.
Hopefully this 5.5GB/s recommendation is pulled / denied/ dismissed so this this wall of text here has no validiy anymore.
I hope i am wrong. But i am not, iam afraid..
Wait till you find out that 5.5 GBps isnt even the minimum. It's the recommended. Tom Warren already tested a 4.9 GBps SSD and it ran just fine. The fact that Sony did not even list a minimum means that there is a chance a 3.5 GBps should be enough.

It's just another one of Sony's misleading statements about porting to PC and cross gen games. I think it's time to realize that the Sony we grew up with is no longer there. They prioritize maximizing profits over everything and sometimes that means making your lead architect look like a dishonest dipshit. Sometimes it means holding back THREE of your biggest franchises and handicapping your BEST developers to tech thats literally ten years old. And sometimes it means limiting everything to cater to a bigger PC audience. The latter of which is funny because even EA and Take2 are not handicapping their sports devs that way. But that's the new Sony and we all have to get used to it.

Dont be afraid. Just move on. They dont owe you shit. Return the PS5 if you feel disgusted by their misleading statements. As far as I am concerned, the golden era of Sony is over. And unlike the PS3, there is no stopping this train so they wont get a reality check like they did after the PS3 fuck ups. It's just the new reality. We all have to get used to it.

Its almost like all of that was just PR talk trying to play up a product they wanted to sell.

Advice: Throw all this spec talk and number wars in the trash and just go back to playing games without worrying too much what speed your plastic box storage is running at.
Yeah, I wont lie. I fell for it hook line and sinker. Never again. What a waste of two fucking years in that next gen tech thread.
 
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Guilty_AI

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Yeah, I wont lie. I fell for it hook line and sinker. Never again. What a waste of two fucking years in that next gen tech thread.
Be careful not to fall into the dooming extreme either though. Its still a good hardware and the high storage speed will still bring its share benefits.
The problem is when some people like OP started seriously believing it would create some game design revolution, or that it would have games that are absolutely impossible in other hardware because forum wars.

If i'm to be perfectly honest, worrying about stuff like this just sounds tiring and takes out the enjoyment of the hobby.
 
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Crimson_Fate

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Sony has certified NOTHING... they said that if you wanted to try an M2 drive during the beta you needed at least 5.5 and they cavioted that the performance may not be good enough. They also warned against buying ANYTHING until they released a list.

So lets see what sony actually certifies.

edit : Sony is also not going to BAN sub-spec drives so if you have a slower GEN-4 drive you can still use it, it will just take a performance hit.
 
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On Demand

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1. Don’t know why you’re worried about external SSD performance. Developers will be making their games for the PS5’s SSD. It can’t be replaced so it doesn’t matter what kind of SSD is used externally. It’s not like the PS3 and PS4 where you could change the system HDD with a slower HDD. Developers had to take that into account. No such thing is happening with PS5 SSD. All developers can take advantage of the full performance of the SSD.

2. Sony PC strategy so far has been select few PS4 games. PS5 games are nowhere near being released on PC so I doubt it would be holding back PS5 SSD. Whenever they do/if get to PS5 games it still doesn’t matter. They’re not day and date. It’s not all Sony games. Developers still don’t have to worry about lower spec PC SSD.

Basically, the PS5 SSD is the main baseline for development. It doesn’t matter what external SSD are used.

The recommendation is still to use a faster SSD anyway. Just because they’re allowing less than 7GB doesn’t mean 7GB is not the best to use to almost match PS5 SSD performance still. They even say themselves slower drives might not work properly and in that case move the game back on the internal SSD. So there you go.
 
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SlimySnake

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Be careful not to fall into the dooming extreme either though. Its still a good hardware and the high storage speed will still bring its share benefits.
The problem is when some people like OP started seriously believing it would create some game design revolution, or that it would have games that are absolutely impossible in other hardware because forum wars.

If i'm to be perfectly honest, worrying about stuff like this just sounds tiring and takes out the enjoyment of the hobby.
I see where he is coming from. It gets tiring being lied to all the time, and Sony has done that a lot lately.

But like I said to him, it's time to move on. This is the reality of doing business in 2021. You cant expect a console company to make games exclusively for consoles anymore. If anything, I have come around to liking this. They bought Nixxes to port everything to PC, most likely on day one which means I will no longer have to sacrifice resolution and ray tracing for 60 fps. A 3080 even without DLSS should run every PS5 game at 2x the framerate. No need to spend an extra $500 on a mid gen console. No need to pay them $60 per year for 7 years for PSN either. This is actually a good thing.
 

longdi

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i share the same concerns as OP, the new lowered requirements are a concern to all, especially those who banked solely on PS5 as their mains.

we can see it as 2 branches,

One being as what OP pointed out, the looser speeds is meant to grab as much headway into PC ports as possible, and this is more positive and favors us PC gamers :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:

The other is the initial 'high' specs speeds was down to a byproduct of using cheaper and more parallel NAND flash (as what Epic China engineer leaked), the max raw speeds are not really needed for this generation, meaning there are other bottlenecks elsewhere and 5.5gb/s + 6 priority levels are never going to make a difference. 🤷‍♀️
 

SlimySnake

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1. Don’t know why you’re worried about external SSD performance. Developers will be making their games for the PS5’s SSD. It’s can’t be replaced so it doesn’t matter what kind of SSD is used externally. It’s not like the PS3 and PS4 where you could change the system HDD with a slower HDD. Developers had to take that into account. No such thing is happening with PS5 SSD. All developers can take advantage of the full performance of the SSD.

2. Sony PC strategy so far has been select few PS4 games. PS5 games are nowhere near being released on PC so I doubt it would be holding back PS5 SSD. Whenever they do/if get to PS5 games it still doesn’t matter. They’re not day and date. It’s not all Sony games. Developers still don’t have to worry about lower spec PC SSD.

Basically, the PS5 SSD is the main baseline for development. It doesn’t matter what external SSD are used.

The recommendation is still to use a faster SSD anyway. Just because they’re allowing less than 7GB doesn’t mean 7GB is still the best to use to almost match PS5 SSD performance. They even say themselves slower drives might not work properly and in that case move the game back on the internal. SSD. So there you go.
1. Insomaniac is on record saying that they were limited by the 20 MBps read speeds of the hardrives that PS4 owners could potentially put in their PS4 because Sony accepted all HDDs. So the speed of Spiderman's traversal was handicapped not by the 50 MBps HDD the PS4 shipped with but the third party HDDs available at the time.
2. Sony just bought Nixxes and they have gone on record saying that they bought them for PC ports. They have also gone on record saying that the PS5 is only the best play to play these games AT LAUNCH which means these games will all come to PC.
 

ReBurn

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No. He's upset over the fact that the biggest tech advantage the PS5 has will potentially not be taken advantage of. The advantage Cerny spent literally 30 minutes shoving down our throat. The advantage that came at the cost of more graphical power. The advantage that came at the cost of fewer storage.

But you already knew what he meant and were being facetious, right?
No, I was serious. SSD didn't come at the expense of more graphical power. If they'd gone with different storage that doesn't mean it unlocked a graphical power slider somewhere that meant graphics could have been better. Even if it did Sony had to draw the line on system specs somewhere if they were going to get the system to market and what we have today is where that line was drawn.

It's still silly that someone is exhausted over Sony's SSD choice.
 

01011001

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ok so first of all, stop believing all the PR crap sony throws at you. that 5.5 GiB/s is the peak theoretical performance.

real world performance is always significantly lower.

remember that SSD that Cerny bought for his PS5? that has an advertised 7 GiB/s read speed?
well in real world tests it averages at around 4.5 GiB/s sustained read speeds.

7 GiB/s advertised speed
4.5 GiB/s sustained speed

so now imagine how the peak speed of 5.5GiB/s of the PS5's SSD will turn out in real world scenarios... it's not gonna reach 5.5GiB/s on nearly any task
 
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Shmunter

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I agree, it’s fishy as hell. Not even fishy, it’s obvious that cross platform development is taking centre stage over the PS5 hardware. I was hopeful the 5.5 was sufficient, but it cannot be as the op highlights it.

The priority lanes are fundamental to low latency asset’s being loaded into ram. The weird 800gig size is a result of all that.

Allowing lower spec read speeds from nvme means the target baseline has been lowered. You wouldn’t do that if the ps5 were the sole dev target.

Thing is, games will still be great - BUT we will never know what could have been. The unique forward thinking design is completely wasted, and Sony could have instead given the console a full 1tb and e.g a bigger GPU. Now it’s neither here nor there.
 
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SlimySnake

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Sony could have instead given the console e.g a bigger GPU. Now it’s neither here nor there.
As the resident Tflops whore of gaf, this is the part that irks me the most. Their cooling solution is so goddamn amazing that a 52 CU 2.0 Ghz 13.8 tflops GPU wouldve easily fit in that power budget. But no, they just HAD to go for this expensive SSD solution knowing third parties wouldnt fully utilize it due to the XSX SSD speeds being the lowest common denominator, and now even their own flesh and blood first party studios wont fully utilize it.

I am curious to see just what the lower bound really is. Someone in the other SSD thread mentioned how the lowest Gen 4 SSDs can go is 3.5 GBps so it will still be faster than the XSX, but I would love to have some of these tech youtubers test this out. NXGamer NXGamer can you maybe buy a 3.5 GBps SSD and see if it can run Ratchet? For science? ;p
 
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longdi

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I agree, it’s fishy as hell. Not even fishy, it’s obvious that cross platform development is taking centre stage over the PS5 hardware. I was hopeful the 5.5 was sufficient, but it cannot be as the op highlights it.

The priority lanes are fundamental to low latency asset’s being loaded into ram. The weird 800gig size is a result of all that.

Allowing lower spec read speeds from nvme means the target baseline has been lowered. You wouldn’t do that if the ps5 were the sole dev target.

Thing is, games will still be great - BUT we will never know what could have been. The unique forward thinking design is completely wasted, and Sony could have instead given the console a full 1tb and e.g a bigger GPU. Now it’s neither here nor there.

I agree, it seems some of us could be right again and this SSD twist strengthens our hunch.

Going from HDD to a NVME is already a big jump. The GPU remains the bottleneck for games today still. At least in a cost constrained TDP consoles. 🤷‍♀️
 

On Demand

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1. Insomaniac is on record saying that they were limited by the 20 MBps read speeds of the hardrives that PS4 owners could potentially put in their PS4 because Sony accepted all HDDs. So the speed of Spiderman's traversal was handicapped not by the 50 MBps HDD the PS4 shipped with but the third party HDDs available at the time.
2. Sony just bought Nixxes and they have gone on record saying that they bought them for PC ports. They have also gone on record saying that the PS5 is only the best play to play these games AT LAUNCH which means these games will all come to PC.

1. Exactly my point. What are rebutting?

You could take out the PS4 HDD and use a much slower one. That affected game development as you pointed out with Insomniac.

The PS5 SSD CAN NOT BE REMOVED. Developers don’t have to worry about any slower less customized tech SSD replacing the main internal SSD.

2. Yeah like I said. Not day and date and not every single PS5 game. Sony developers are not worrying about lower PC specs.

To be honest. Sony has been so untransparent with their so called PC strategy that I don’t know what to believe yet. They’ve been very sneaky about it. They keep changing what they say every time it’s brought up. On purpose I would say.
 

Paulxo87

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Rofl all this drama. If a dev years down the line want to take full advantage of the full speed all they have to do is state that the game will only run installed on the internal SSD. Period. The budget, resources/time for such a game will be far and in between too and not for a few years
 
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Shmunter

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1. Exactly my point. What are rebutting?

You could take out the PS4 HDD and use a much slower one. That affected game development as you pointed out with Insomniac.

The PS5 SSD CAN NOT BE REMOVED. Developers don’t have to worry about any slower less customized tech SSD replacing the main internal SSD.

2. Yeah like I said. Not day and date and not every single PS5 game. Sony developers are not worrying about lower PC specs.

To be honest. Sony has been so untransparent with their so called PC strategy that I don’t know what to believe yet. They’ve been very sneaky about it. They keep changing what they say every time it’s brought up. On purpose I would say.
The internal drive spec becomes irrelevant as soon as games are required to work off a much slower nvme. In this case, a low tide lowers all boats.

If Sony makes you move games into internal storage as if it were a USB drive then it’s different, but it’s quite obvious this is not the goal.
 

On Demand

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I agree, it’s fishy as hell. Not even fishy, it’s obvious that cross platform development is taking centre stage over the PS5 hardware. I was hopeful the 5.5 was sufficient, but it cannot be as the op highlights it.

The priority lanes are fundamental to low latency asset’s being loaded into ram. The weird 800gig size is a result of all that.

Allowing lower spec read speeds from nvme means the target baseline has been lowered. You wouldn’t do that if the ps5 were the sole dev target.

Thing is, games will still be great - BUT we will never know what could have been. The unique forward thinking design is completely wasted, and Sony could have instead given the console a full 1tb and e.g a bigger GPU. Now it’s neither here nor there.

This is all wrong buddy.

External SSD has no affect on PS5 internal SSD.

The recommendation is still a faster SSD than PS5 for the best performance. Slower drives being allowed during beta doesn’t negate what was already known.
 

longdi

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1. Exactly my point. What are rebutting?

You could take out the PS4 HDD and use a much slower one. That affected game development as you pointed out with Insomniac.

The PS5 SSD CAN NOT BE REMOVED. Developers don’t have to worry about any slower less customized tech SSD replacing the main internal SSD.

2. Yeah like I said. Not day and date and not every single PS5 game. Sony developers are not worrying about lower PC specs.

To be honest. Sony has been so untransparent with their so called PC strategy that I don’t know what to believe yet. They’ve been very sneaky about it. They keep changing what they say every time it’s brought up. On purpose I would say.

You can see things this way for the new generation of game engines. They just need a fast enough nvme SSD with sustained speeds, and they will not lose out in assets quality and game world designs, the whatnots that come with the new SSD streaming paradigm.

A higher bound SSD speeds may give you 3-5s of faster loading but the game itself plays the same, no cutbacks on setting the stage.

The bottleneck is still the GPU, a system with better GPU will give you better frametimes, higher average fps and higher resolution.

So it comes down to which end game you value outta the ps5. 🤷‍♀️
 

On Demand

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The internal drive spec becomes irrelevant as soon as games are required to work off a much slower nvme. In this case, a low tide lowers all boats.

If Sony makes you move games into internal storage as if it were a USB drive then it’s different, but it’s quite obvious this is not the goal.

What are you even talking about exactly?????

Games aren’t required to work off any slower external. It’s the opposite. You have to use a proper spec fast SSD in order for PS5 games to work properly. Sony tells you themselves that if the SSD you’re using causes performance issues to move the game back on the PS5 SSD.

You people are spreading new FUD. Good job.
 
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Hoddi

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The internal drive spec becomes irrelevant as soon as games are required to work off a much slower nvme. In this case, a low tide lowers all boats.

If Sony makes you move games into internal storage as if it were a USB drive then it’s different, but it’s quite obvious this is not the goal.
I think people worry far too much about this. Streaming rates during gameplay are likely to be very different from the burst rates that we see during the initial game loads.

Like, how large does your game need to be to see constant 5.5GB/s reads from disk? Demon's Souls and R&C are the only real 'next-gen' games we have and those are still only about 50GB in total size.
 
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Stooky

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if this 5.5GB/s Figure is not pulled than we have all our answers. And even in hardware Manafacturer its the black suits making the decissions not the engineeers. It is like i said. What they noe more want than anything is:
PC SELLS
engineers work with in a budget made by the suits, that’s how it works. usually that budget comes from specifications recommended by the engineers. It’s a back and forth to reach a common goal. Anything over budget needs to get approval. Thats how manufacturing works except for a few instances (ex. ps3 and the Walkman)that Dosen’t apply to this situation at all. When Sony releases it’s ssd recommendation with the firmware we will then have our answers. Until then anything can change because the firmware is beta. Their internal testing shows 5.5Gb works, thru this public beta they will see if it holds true and what ssd/heat sinks will work as well as any other issues that might come up.

5.5 gbs and decompression units as standard on every unit is something PCs doesn't have. That will be exploited on consoles. Were already seeing games with features available on console that aren't on PC.
 
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Shmunter

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I think people worry far too much about this. Streaming rates during gameplay are likely to be very different from the burst rates that we see during the initial game loads.

Like, how large does your game need to be to see constant 5.5GB/s reads from disk? Demon's Souls and R&C are the only real 'next-gen' games we have and those are still only about 50GB in total size.
Reading a constant 5.5 gig doesn’t need to be about new data, it can be about swapping assets in and out as you traverse a level or even do 360’s in a room. It’s fundamentally a ram multiplier for all things assets, distinct from game size.
 
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SlimySnake

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Games aren’t required to work off any slower external.
Yes they are. Thats the whole point of all this compatibility nonsense. Thats why Cerny devoted an entire section of his road to ps5 show to it. That's why Sony disallowed any SSDs on the firmware level at launch. You couldnt even use your PS5 if you used an SSD. Thats why Sony is literally having a beta right now.

Kind of bizarre for you to join a topic and then disagree with the facts the thread's entire argument is based upon.
 

WitchHunter

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What will happen? FPS will drop from 85 to 83. Digitalfoundry and other very good sites will create a least 3 videos about it, each at least 15 minutes long. What will happen if the FPS drops by TWO or god forbid spidrman will freeze for 25 nanoseconds between areas? I can't imagine. But I'm sure at least a dozen youngsters will jump off a cliff, because their life will worth nothing anymore hearing the news.
 
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Dream-Knife

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An N64 could read a cartridge faster than the blu-ray player in an Xbox or playstation could read the disc.

Your m.2 will be fine.

Part of the problem was the ssd speeds were essentially the main selling point amongst enthusiasts as to why their console was better than xbox. Maybe they placed a little bit too much stock in that.
 
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On Demand

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Yes they are. Thats the whole point of all this compatibility nonsense. Thats why Cerny devoted an entire section of his road to ps5 show to it. That's why Sony disallowed any SSDs on the firmware level at launch. You couldnt even use your PS5 if you used an SSD. Thats why Sony is literally having a beta right now.

Kind of bizarre for you to join a topic and then disagree with the facts the thread's entire argument is based upon.

No they are not.

Compatibility is to work with PS5 faster SSD. If it doesn’t work or causes issues that’s on the person that bought it. Move the game back to PS5 SSD as Sony says. Developers aren’t worrying about any slow SSD people put in PS5. PS5 has a built in soldered non replaceable SSD. That’s the baseline.

Can’t believe this is even being discussed.
 
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LordCBH

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Something tells me Sony knows what they’re doing and that it won’t be a problem. But what do they know? They’re only highly paid and highly talented engineers.
 
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Mr Moose

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The internal drive spec becomes irrelevant as soon as games are required to work off a much slower nvme. In this case, a low tide lowers all boats.

If Sony makes you move games into internal storage as if it were a USB drive then it’s different, but it’s quite obvious this is not the goal.
They aren't made for 3rd party random drives, they are made for the 5.5GB/s one that's in the PS5.
You want developers to guess which drive you are using and work to that?
 

BreakOut

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Ok, so should I get faster than 5.5? I don’t really know shit about hardware, which is why I bought a fucking console to begin with. Now I’m stressed.
 
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FritzJ92

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All of this technical crap shouldn’t be for consoles. Im just saying. Plug and play should be it’s advantage.
While Xbox method is expensive it’s the “console method” and it’s going to work no matter where you get it. Hopefully Sony has a branding to create a semi-plug and play method to this install process.
 

Neolombax

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I read everything OP wrote, didnt understand at all. Also, I decided very early on to be a console gamer because I dont want to worry about all this technical stuff. It just isnt for me.

I'll just wait for reviews on hardware that works well with the PS5, when I finally get to buy a PS5.
 

yurqqa

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Jun 16, 2010
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Finally PS5 fans can whine back at PC owners about holding back the progress in gaming.

Please let them do it - they were listening for PCMR whines since PS2 times - they deserved it.
 

PhoenixTank

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Consoles are coming from PS4 & Xbox One both being limited somewhat by optical media & 5400RPM HDDs. It'll be fine - no need to give yourself a stroke over it.
This is like driving around in a car 9 months ago then panicking that your space shuttle can get to the moon but can't get to Mars... just the fucking moon.

I'd see any potential deficits between PC & console on the storage front being made up with PC's significantly higher RAM capacity, not to mention a dedicated VRAM pool too.