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[Oblivion]

^^^ Yeah, because Little Big Planet receives no hype around these parts, no sir.

LBP is semi-legitimate. A better suggestion would be Lair.

 

[Catchpenny]

Any control system that removes tactile response from the equation will not succeed. Ever. Plain and simple.

What needs to happen is a combination of the technologies in some form. Camera systems like this combined with the tech of the wiimote is ideal, though that's oversimplifying it a bit. Regardless, the whole argument is kind of silly since I doubt the wiimote was designed as an end-all be-all evolution of game control. A camera system akin to the EyeToy from Nintendo is not out of the question, but of course they'd never do it until it was economically feasible and user-friendly enough.

Great post. Even five years down the road I think you could get some very interesting, exciting games by combining the two. The lack of feedback is what caused my disinterest in the Eyetoy. EoJ gets around this for the most part because it's a board game, and I'd love to give it a shot, but the larger problem remains.

 

[Firewire]

:lol

No.

However, let's say it does.

It doesn't come as a standard with the PS3, so nobody gives a shit.

But it comes with with the "Eye of Judgment Game" (Board Deck of Cards included) The PS3 "Eye" a graphics program for the "screen capture" program. All for $60 available in Japan in October. Over 15 games in development as well.

 

[Azrael]

The Eyetoy in its current incarnation is nowhere near the potential of the Wii Remote. Probably a better solution would be to have a camera with 3D motion tracking, which is the direction I expect things to head a few years from now, unless the patent trolls got to the idea first.

 

[Firewire]

The Eyetoy in its current incarnation is nowhere near the potential of the Wii Remote. Probably a better solution would be to have a camera with 3D motion tracking, which is the direction I expect things to head a few years from now, unless the patent trolls got to the idea first.

And what do you think the "Eye" is with two lenses in HD @ 120fps it can capture every movement up close or far away! Even in very low light situations!

 

[Azrael]

And what do you think the "Eye" is with two lenses in HD @ 120fps it can capture every movement up close or far away! Even in very low light situations!

I believe the Eye, like the Eyetoy, can detect motion but can't differentiate between objects in 3D space. It can tell something is moving, but it doesn't recognize, for example, how far from the camera the thing that's moving is, or whether it's a hand or an elbow.

 

[ElFly]

But it comes with with the "Eye of Judgment Game" (Board Deck of Cards included) The PS3 "Eye" a graphics program for the "screen capture" program. All for $60 available in Japan in October. Over 15 games in development as well.

Nobody really cares for Eye of Judgement, buddy.

And that is the worst use of the eyeToy ever :lol

 

[haunts]

Holy shit at that new EyeToy trailer.

:lol

No.

However, let's say it does.

It doesn't come as a standard with the PS3, so nobody gives a shit.

You think anyone would give a shit if it came standard with PS3 to begin with?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Sony Eye Toy Sex Game. You gotta really do it to do it.

 

[garrickk]

I believe the Eye, like the Eyetoy, can detect motion but can't differentiate between objects in 3D space. It can tell something is moving, but it doesn't recognize, for example, how far from the camera the thing that's moving is, or whether it's a hand or an elbow.

The Eye, like the Eyetoy, knows and detects nothing. It's all computer vision algorithms on the data (by the PS2 or PS3 processor).

The Eye, unlike the Eyetoy, won't capture frames at the frequency our artificial light sources are emitting light, poorly compress this noisy image, and then transport the frames to a device without much vision processing power. This is VERY important.

The computer vision algorithms can detect body parts through algorithms. It can detect depth through algorithm as well. For instance, once edge defining filters have been run over a defined object of interest in the image, edge expansion algorithms can detect if the object is moving away or towards the camera (and how fast). It all depends on the fidelity of the camera, the quality of the data delivery, and how much processing power you have at your disposal (and software quality).

Read my previous post. With a good machine vision camera and ample processing power, I've seen some wicked shit. I'm still not optimistic for this gen, but I bet we get 1-2 games that blow people away with the potential.

Edit: I should say the best crap I've seen was all down with stereoscopic computer vision; twin cameras. It's much easier (obviously) to get quality depth information. With sensors becoming so cheap, I predict one of the 3 console companies will release a stereo vision camera next gen as standard. It will be twin sensors 2-3 inches apart.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I believe the Eye, like the Eyetoy, can detect motion but can't differentiate between objects in 3D space. It can tell something is moving, but it doesn't recognize, for example, how far from the camera the thing that's moving is, or whether it's a hand or an elbow.

With a standardized "controller" object it could determine distance, though. It wouldn't even need to be a piece of electronics, just a ruler with a white dot painted on each end. Pixel size could then be used to calculate distance. Translation in Z wouldn't be nearly as precise as in X/Y, but would be possible. It would actually be more precise than Wii wand depth calculations at very low speeds, since a ruler is longer than the Wii beacon bar. (At medium/high speeds, the Wii can use interpolated motion data to augment visual sensing.)

As garrickk said, the PS3 power is what's important here, and it can be fed better data since the Eye has better resolving ability (in lumens, space, and time) than the Eyetoy.

 

[ElFly]

Holy shit at that new EyeToy trailer.



You think anyone would give a shit if it came standard with PS3 to begin with?

Well, it would allow every game to potentially use it, so yes.

 

[PartlyCloudlike]

No.

However, let's say it does.

It doesn't come as a standard with the PS3, so nobody gives a shit.

Nobody really cares for Eye of Judgement, buddy.

And that is the worst use of the eyeToy ever :lol

:lol

Drop the attitude you little shit. I mean "buddy."

 

[Raistlin]

I think you'd have to be nuts to not think there's more potential ... especially when you consider it can be used in conjunction with waggle.


That said, it will never be utilized to a high level for the most part (obviously). It will still be worth it IMO, if Sony brings out a decent amount of titles that really do something different. The card game is a good start.

 

[Deku]

Sony had market dominance with the PS2 and failed to achieve any kind of lasting change with eye toy. What makes you think they can do the same with a peripheral on a struggling platform?

Even if it sells to a massive 50% of the userbase, which it won't, it's still going to be a multiple smaller than the Wii.

Besides, this whole discussion is farcial. Why would anyone want a camera to do the job of a gyro. There's just a whole lot of wishful thinking predicated on speculation and a desire to believe in what is obviously bad PR.

 

[Weisheit]

"Install base" is not how you judged the potential of a specific technology. The applications of said technology and the possibilities it evokes can occur whether or not many people use it or not. Unless the only "potential" being discussed is "potential sales." Wouldn't pass that by sales age.

Besides, your premise is stupid enough as it is - you can't get much more simple or elegant than an EyeToy, since it is a fucking HD camera and there are no buttons at all. So if that's your criteria, well!



Whoa whoa. There is a significant difference between what a camera does, and what wiimote does. There is also more potential in the evolution of this line then what you're suggesting to boot in terms of light. I don't know where you heard the bullshit that Wiimote is "more receptive to varying lighting conditions than the Eyetoy could ever hope for", but guess what: it's bullshit. EyeToy in its CURRENT FORM - including the upcoming HD version of it - cannot compete in functionality. But the evolution of this, and the advancement and natural progression of the technology is far, far more far reaching.

I don't even think you're listening to what you're saying. You're just reading "Sony said something that wasn't positive about wiimote, let's deconstruct it." But you're NOT thinking it through. EyeToy technology, and its possible applications, aren't unique to Sony. There are companies that have taken an evolved form of this technology and have done primitive versions of what we can expect when it's taken to the next level. It is a billion times more advanced when evolved than what wiimote can do at its current point, or what EyeToy can do at its current point.

But here's the key: Sony is talking about the potential of the EyeToy technology. And the potential, taken to its maximum in one or two or three generations, IS further than wiimote by fucking common sense. You eliminate the need for a peripheral with buttons altogether at the end point.

Christ, why is it that whenever someone disagrees with you, you make these large sweeping statements filled with four letter words?

You come off as some egotistical mod who can't stand intelligent debate whereby people actually debate their opinions rather than making statements about how stupid the other person is.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Christ, why is it that whenever someone disagrees with you, you make these large sweeping statements filled with four letter words?

You come off as some egotistical mod who can't stand intelligent debate whereby people actually debate their opinions rather than making statements about how stupid the other person is.

He's had a tough life. And he looks down on gamers. So he's a pretty angry person in general it would seem.

That said... one of the bolds in there was particularly interesting...

t is a billion times more advanced when evolved than what wiimote can do

Hyperbolic yes, but not quite an attack on anyone else.

 

[Weisheit]

He's had a tough life. And he looks down on gamers. So he's a pretty angry person in general it would seem.

That said... one of the bolds in there was particularly interesting...

t is a billion times more advanced when evolved than what wiimote can do

Hyperbolic yes, but not quite an attack on anyone else.

Nah, it wasn't an attack but it was kinda sweeping. Shit maybe eyetoy does have more potential but surely not a billion times.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Eyetoy has more potential than wii remote

WHAT? CAN SOMEONE STOP THOSE ANNOYING CASH REGISTER NOISES FOR A SECOND

.

 

[garrickk]

He's had a tough life. And he looks down on gamers. So he's a pretty angry person in general it would seem.

That said... one of the bolds in there was particularly interesting...

t is a billion times more advanced when evolved than what wiimote can do

Hyperbolic yes, but not quite an attack on anyone else.

Amir0x, myself, and a few others were trying to get across that computer vision (good camera + computer vision processing algorithms) holds a lot more FUTURE potential than a finite control wand and button system like the Wiimote. But, we are a long way from it.

If the new Eye camera can adjust capture frequency to avoid noise from flickering light sources (at 60Hz), provides a clean image, and the PS3 has enough processing power, neat things can be done WAY beyond what was possible with the EyeToy and PS2, and possibly the Wiimote. But, it will take a long time and a huge investment in software. May not happen this gen (improbable).

Perhaps this is bad PR, and won't come to fruition for a while, but it is basically true. That is all we are saying. Nintendo should be happy that their current controls are even being discussed in comparison to FAR DISTANT computer vision potential.

If he's angry, it's because a very simple statement of fact can't be accepted as such. You can reply with your educated belief that nothing worthy of these comparisons will be developed this generation with the new Eye peripheral, and you may be right, but that's not what we're saying. Just that it's possible and will eventually happen. Perhaps by then Nintendo will even have a better controller, and one not based or relying on computer vision.

 

[davepoobond]

:lol

No.

However, let's say it does.

It doesn't come as a standard with the PS3, so nobody gives a shit.

so what of rumble then? nobody gives a shit about rumble even if it does come out?


your axiom does not work.

 

[Koshiro]

:lol

 

[Blackace]

　NBA Scouts are moonlighting in the game industry!!!

 

[justchris]

Whoa whoa. There is a significant difference between what a camera does, and what wiimote does. There is also more potential in the evolution of this line then what you're suggesting to boot in terms of light. I don't know where you heard the bullshit that Wiimote is "more receptive to varying lighting conditions than the Eyetoy could ever hope for", but guess what: it's bullshit. EyeToy in its CURRENT FORM - including the upcoming HD version of it - cannot compete in functionality. But the evolution of this, and the advancement and natural progression of the technology is far, far more far reaching.

I don't even think you're listening to what you're saying. You're just reading "Sony said something that wasn't positive about wiimote, let's deconstruct it." But you're NOT thinking it through. EyeToy technology, and its possible applications, aren't unique to Sony. There are companies that have taken an evolved form of this technology and have done primitive versions of what we can expect when it's taken to the next level. It is a billion times more advanced when evolved than what wiimote can do at its current point, or what EyeToy can do at its current point.

But here's the key: Sony is talking about the potential of the EyeToy technology. And the potential, taken to its maximum in one or two or three generations, IS further than wiimote by fucking common sense. You eliminate the need for a peripheral with buttons altogether at the end point.

I mostly agree with you, but I think you're overlooking the fact that the Wiimote is very, very rudimentary in it's design, as evidenced by the fact that it does need to use a camera-like object to handle the direct pointing features. There is still a world of improvement for the inherent technology in the Wiimote, and whether or not the camera based technology of the Eyetoy has greater potential or not is something we won't see for several generations of both types of technology. I think, the fundamental endpoint for the Wiimote technology is a controller in each hand that doesn't require buttons, because everything can be detected through precise and unlimited movement.

Whether or not we'll see that in the Wii2, or ever, and whether or not the PS4 version of the Eyetoy will show it's true potential is something we'll just have to wait for.

Right now, my money's on something new showing up within the next decade that trumps them both.

 

[Amir0x]

Christ, why is it that whenever someone disagrees with you, you make these large sweeping statements filled with four letter words?

You come off as some egotistical mod who can't stand intelligent debate whereby people actually debate their opinions rather than making statements about how stupid the other person is.

you come off as someone who can't read, since if you DID you'd see that I didn't call him stupid - I said his PREMISE his stupid. The argument is fundamentally flawed, since if 'elegant and simple' was the criteria EyeToy HD would win almost by default.

Also, don't pass your flaws onto me... just because you're scared of stating your opinions with conviction, doesn't mean I'm gonna be. I believe my opinions are right, and I wouldn't have them if I didn't think so. Similarly, the discussion WAS going fine until you decided to cry into your wheaties. So, you go back to doing it and we'll go back to having a fine discussion.

ProTip: Using cusswords is not equivalent to being egotistical, nor is using a forceful tone.