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Sony has generated approximately $700 million from PC port sales for the last fiscal year

feynoob

Gold Member
If anything it's opposite.
Why do a day1 release and cannibalize your sales of consoles and it's soft when you can do a port 2-4 years later when sales died completely to force double-dip on PC for the whole 700 mil/year of free money.
2 years is really nothing. We are getting Gow ragnorak soon. Spiderman 2 will come next year.

There isnt much difference between day1 and 2 years gap. All you are doing is building a library after 10 years. And unlike PS consoles, steam has 20 years worth of library games. So steam will have all PS games for up to 20 years or more.
 

Topher

Gold Member
For several reasons.
- First they are getting less money from those PC sales because of lower price on PC (due to more competition on Steam) and the 30% tax.
- Second they are encouraging people to invest into PC ecosystem which leads to more problems. People have less money to spend on PS games because they spend some of their money on PC hardware (which is very expensive, Nvidia is happy here) and also as they have now a gaming PC they can spend more of their money on 3rd party games (because this version will be better and cheaper than on console) and games available on PC not available on consoles.

It's being a toxic strategy from the start and could only work on the short term, never long term. There is a good reason Nintendo isn't porting their games on PC.

The only real anomaly in those charts was 2020 which was the year the gaming industry blew up due to the pandemic. Nothing you've posted here can be derived from that chart that isn't pure speculation. There is simply no data.
 
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Felessan

Member
2 years is really nothing. We are getting Gow ragnorak soon. Spiderman 2 will come next year.

There isnt much difference between day1 and 2 years gap. All you are doing is building a library after 10 years. And unlike PS consoles, steam has 20 years worth of library games. So steam will have all PS games for up to 20 years or more.
There is a huge difference between day1 and 2 years.
For platform holder like Sony and MS games should be "system-sellers" - they should move consoles as console ecosystem is where they get majority of money (30% cut, accessories etc).
As a result - games should be associated directly with the platform. And while they sells on the platform - they do their "system-seller" role. When sales drop to zero - this mean it's system-seller potential died. And it's free to publish it on other platform for those people who will not buy your platform for this game, but who will buy this game.

There is only rumours about Ragnarok and it's still placed at 2.5 years after launch (spring 2025), when most "front-loaded blockbuster" already lost their steam. And I would expect Spidy to be at somewhere in 2026.
 
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feynoob

Gold Member
There is a huge difference between day1 and 2 years.
For platform holder like Sony and MS games should be "system-sellers" - they should move consoles as console ecosystem is where they get majority of money (30% cut, accessories etc).
As a result - games should be associated directly with the platform. And while they sells on the platform - they do their "system-seller" role. When sales drop to zero - this mean it's system-seller potential died. And it's free to publish it on other platform for those people who will not buy your platform for this game, but who will buy this game.

There is only rumours about Ragnarok and it's still placed at 2.5 years after launch (spring 2025), when most "front-loaded blockbuster" already lost their steam. And I would expect Spidy to be at somewhere in 2026.
Console gen is 6-8 years old. 2 years is 1/3rd-1/4th of the console cycle. So 2 years isnt that much.
 

Felessan

Member
Console gen is 6-8 years old. 2 years is 1/3rd-1/4th of the console cycle. So 2 years isnt that much.
It doesn't work this way. No one at the end of gen care about games at the start of gen (except a few).
And all games are different. You should look at sales profile of particular game. Most AAA games are frontloaded - they dies out in 2 years to almost nothing and replaced by the new king of the hill of blockbusters. Some more sturdy than other - Tsushima for example, which holds pretty well for 4 years old game. Some games have insanely long legs, Gran Turismo for example. No rumours for it to ever come to PC.
Selling price and number of promotions indicates current state of selling potential of the game.

When game is relevant for a platform - no point of porting it, it will affect your ecosystem growth. When it's irrelevant - porting is a free money.
 
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feynoob

Gold Member
It doesn't work this way. No one at the end of gen care about games at the start of gen (except a few).
And all games are different. You should look at sales profile of particular game. Most AAA games are frontloaded - they dies out in 2 years to almost nothing and replaced by the new king of the hill of blockbusters. Some more sturdy than other - Tsushima for example, which holds pretty well for 4 years old game. Some games have insanely long legs, Gran Turismo for example. No rumours for it to ever come to PC.
Selling price and number of promotions indicates current state of selling potential of the game.

When game is relevant for a platform - no point of porting it, it will affect your ecosystem growth. When it's irrelevant - porting is a free money.
A gen has 6 years.

Sony releases game 1 day1 on their platform. 2 years later, that game comes to PC.
Then Sony does the same thing to game 2 and game 3.

In that span, pc got all 3 games from Sony during that gen.
 
GT7 next please
This is very dangerous let me explain why.GT has hardcore follower lots of them casuals who normally don’t game except this game.They play it for years bey the Console for it all paid expansions subscribe to PSN.So if Sony would be so dumm to release this game especially day one on PC.then these hardcore sim racer players would go to PC because they get most out of it with options accessories and better performance because better cpu gpu.Now Sony would get money for the game but way less than their own store and no PSN subscriptions.This is why Sony will never release GT on PC.
 

Felessan

Member
A gen has 6 years.

Sony releases game 1 day1 on their platform. 2 years later, that game comes to PC.
Then Sony does the same thing to game 2 and game 3.

In that span, pc got all 3 games from Sony during that gen.
And what? Sony got all the sales it could on their platform and also cashed in on PC players who will not buy playstation.
And porting day1 means that PC players who might opt to buy playstation to play a game and get into ecosystem - will just play it on PC. Many people will not wait 2 years to play a game of the day.
 
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Fabieter

Member
This is very dangerous let me explain why.GT has hardcore follower lots of them casuals who normally don’t game except this game.They play it for years bey the Console for it all paid expansions subscribe to PSN.So if Sony would be so dumm to release this game especially day one on PC.then these hardcore sim racer players would go to PC because they get most out of it with options accessories and better performance because better cpu gpu.Now Sony would get money for the game but way less than their own store and no PSN subscriptions.This is why Sony will never release GT on PC.

They will! They think people will stay anyway.
 

hemo memo

Gold Member
Yeah, a launcher then games release after 6 months then 3 months then probably we will get day and date releases.
 
Its Gonna Happen Jeff Cannata GIF by The Dungeon Run
JRJbmX8.gif
 

feynoob

Gold Member
And what? Sony got all the sales it could on their platform and also cashed in on PC players who will not buy playstation.
And porting day1 means that PC players who might opt to buy playstation to play a game and get into ecosystem - will just play it on PC. Most people will not wait 2 years to play a game of the day.
You are not paying attention to the library. Dont focus on the year.
For a single gen, PC players get all the 3 games from sony.

For example, hfw, god of war ragnorak and spiderman 2 would be all available on PC in 2025 to purchase. All these games were released on PS5 this gen.

Sony will get money, PC players will build a library knowing they will get the game after 2 year.
 

yurinka

Member
The only winner of their PC initiative (started in 2019) is now Steam.
This is bullshit, they just made $500-600M out of this almost $700M "other software" revenue with an insane CAGR yearly growth and huge ROI for the old PC ports.

That yearly PC revenue will continue growing, this year they'll have HD2 tail + The Final Shape + Concord + Until Dawn remake. And maybe also GoWR and TLOU2.

Even the worst selling one, Sackboy, got profitable. GoTDC got profitable in under two hours after release. Remember that their ports only cost around $2M to be made.

And starting 2023 they are doing less money overall on their first party games than before Jimbo strategy,
No. In 2023 they made a bit less money on first party (counting only PS) because this FY23 they didn't have a Destiny 2 release and their only other big AAA was Spider-Man 2 (plus got lucky with Helldivers), when in FY22 they had Destiny 2 Lightfall, GT7, HFW and GoWR.

But well, both Spider-Man and Helldivers 2 broke sales records for any PS console exclusive game in history. So they made less money because released less big games, but the ones they released have been record hits, so everything is fine.

- First they are getting less money from those PC sales because of lower price on PC (due to more competition on Steam) and the 30% tax.
This is not true, we saw the average revenue per copy sold that a Sony team gets from PS games on the Insomniac leaks and it's basically the same we saw they get from PC in the Sony "Business Segments" yearly reports.

First, the Steam tax is only for the portion the game generated under $10M. Then for the portion when generated between $10 and $50M it's 25%. And for the portion after having generated $50M it's 20%.

Second, their PC releases are digital only, where in console they have costs from the physical versions. So at the end they end getting a similar revenue per copy on Steam and PS, even if releasing in PC with a somewhat reduced price in case of old ports.

As I remember the average revenue per copy that the teams got varied between $24 and $37 depending if it was a recent release still not discounted or if it was a lower priced or highly discounted/price dropped title.

Microsoft has a nice cross benefit with their other products so it's hard to compare it to sony. Sony obviously get loads of short-term benefits but we need to see if its not interfering with their main business longterm. But yes rn it's obviously working.
The effect of their PC strategy started in 2019 (even if Sony has been publishing games on computers since the '80s) is that their console kept growing achieving all time active userbase records for any console brand and that their first party games on console had almost every year a title that broke all time record sales for any PS console exclusive ever.

And despite consoles shortages, a price increase (instead of price drop PS4 already had at this point), PS4 still having a record active userbase that still didn't migrate to next gen,. a global epidemic and a globla financial crysis, PS5 units sold is almost is at PS4 levels (just 800K behind).

We also saw in the leaked documents that early last year half of people who purchased a PS5 never had a PS before.

TLDR: If their PC strategy is having any effect on their console business it's positive, they continue breaking records there in basically all KPIs and segments.
 
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ByWatterson

Member
X360 was the golden chance for Xbox. Go to the e3 and showcase bang games for xbox one. Instead, the suits went with entertainment. Completely killing any cultural relevence that Xbox had.

Now its useless box with no identity, and halo being a dead franchise.

These MF had Halo and COD.

It's still my most-played console due to AOE2, just by itself.

That's why daddy NEEDS Age on PS5.
 

Null Persp

Member
If they don't want to release at day one on pc at least they should bring them faster, after 6 month or 1 year it would be fine.
 

yurinka

Member
Was it mibu totoki or thick girls jim ryan?
Totoki and Jimbo never said PC was hurting them: the opposite, they said it's a very profitable business for them so they will continue doubling down on it.

If they don't want to release at day one on pc at least they should bring them faster, after 6 month or 1 year it would be fine.
I think for them is better to release day one only the GaaS, but to continue keeping their SP games 2-10 years since their original release (not a remaster/remake release) on PS at least until they release their own Sony PC store.
 
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Felessan

Member
You are not paying attention to the library. Dont focus on the year.
For a single gen, PC players get all the 3 games from sony.

For example, hfw, god of war ragnorak and spiderman 2 would be all available on PC in 2025 to purchase. All these games were released on PS5 this gen.

Sony will get money, PC players will build a library knowing they will get the game after 2 year.
You are trying to tell some bullshit that completelly out of reality.
It doesn't work like this - lets take 5 years period blablabla. Selling games is continuous process with consumer behaviour in process. This should be taken into consideration, and not just PC players paid the money 2 years later - it's the same as they might paid it now.
Lets do a mental exercise - GTA6 comes tomorrow on PS5 and 2 years later on PC - will there be a massive rush to buy PS5, when they have an option to "wait 2 years"? Truth is that most people do not have patience to wait 2 years, everyone knows it and everyone put it in their strategy. If you can - good for you, you will not buy PS5 and get a game 2 years later. But while oportunity to grab impatient people into your ecosystem exists - it should be used properly.
 

feynoob

Gold Member
You are trying to tell some bullshit that completelly out of reality.
It doesn't work like this - lets take 5 years period blablabla. Selling games is continuous process with consumer behaviour in process. This should be taken into consideration, and not just PC players paid the money 2 years later - it's the same as they might paid it now.
Lets do a mental exercise - GTA6 comes tomorrow on PS5 and 2 years later on PC - will there be a massive rush to buy PS5, when they have an option to "wait 2 years"? Truth is that most people do not have patience to wait 2 years, everyone knows it and everyone put it in their strategy. If you can - good for you, you will not buy PS5 and get a game 2 years later. But while oportunity to grab impatient people into your ecosystem exists - it should be used properly.
Guess this doesnt count anything then


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Felessan

Member
Guess this doesnt count anything then
They are either GaaS, and GaaS should be put day1 on all platform or ported 2 years later.
Do you have any argument why game should be ported day1 and not 2 years later? because arguments to port 2 years later I stated in previous post.
 

feynoob

Gold Member
They are either GaaS, and GaaS should be put day1 on all platform or ported 2 years later.
Do you have any argument why game should be ported day1 and not 2 years later? because arguments to port 2 years later I stated in previous post.
spongebob squarepants interview GIF
 

Fabieter

Member
This is bullshit, they just made $500-600M out of this almost $700M "other software" revenue with an insane CAGR yearly growth and huge ROI for the old PC ports.

That yearly PC revenue will continue growing, this year they'll have HD2 tail + The Final Shape + Concord + Until Dawn remake. And maybe also GoWR and TLOU2.

Even the worst selling one, Sackboy, got profitable. GoTDC got profitable in under two hours after release. Remember that their ports only cost around $2M to be made.


No. In 2023 they made a bit less money on first party (counting only PS) because this FY23 they didn't have a Destiny 2 release and their only other big AAA was Spider-Man 2 (plus got lucky with Helldivers), when in FY22 they had Destiny 2 Lightfall, GT7, HFW and GoWR.

But well, both Spider-Man and Helldivers 2 broke sales records for any PS console exclusive game in history. So they made less money because released less big games, but the ones they released have been record hits, so everything is fine.


This is not true, we saw the average revenue per copy sold that a Sony team gets from PS games on the Insomniac leaks and it's basically the same we saw they get from PC in the Sony "Business Segments" yearly reports.

First, the Steam tax is only for the portion the game generated under $10M. Then for the portion when generated between $10 and $50M it's 25%. And for the portion after having generated $50M it's 20%.

Second, their PC releases are digital only, where in console they have costs from the physical versions. So at the end they end getting a similar revenue per copy on Steam and PS, even if releasing in PC with a somewhat reduced price in case of old ports.

As I remember the average revenue per copy that the teams got varied between $24 and $37 depending if it was a recent release still not discounted or if it was a lower priced or highly discounted/price dropped title.


The effect of their PC strategy started in 2019 (even if Sony has been publishing games on computers since the '80s) is that their console kept growing achieving all time active userbase records for any console brand and that their first party games on console had almost every year a title that broke all time record sales for any PS console exclusive ever.

And despite consoles shortages, a price increase (instead of price drop PS4 already had at this point), PS4 still having a record active userbase that still didn't migrate to next gen,. a global epidemic and a globla financial crysis, PS5 units sold is almost is at PS4 levels (just 800K behind).

We also saw in the leaked documents that early last year half of people who purchased a PS5 never had a PS before.

TLDR: If their PC strategy is having any effect on their console business it's positive, they continue breaking records there in basically all KPIs and segments.


We dont even know if the 2m is all they did for pc port. They could do the groundwork for alot of these ports wirh the original game and than that would add budget to the original release.

If we count physical. Do we also count key stores. Some of the ps pc games were sold for like half the price on release day. Do you have a source that the platformholder is only getting 24 to 37 bucks for their physical release?

And to the data from 2019 is pretty much flawed. Because up until recently the pc port initiative got excused by ps fanboys that's its only old ps4 games. Its very recently that they started porting more recent games. The pandemic helped alot to put revenue and profit to record highs and we just had one outlier after the shortage of very good sales and they still missed their target.

We will see how the next few years ago and how they do the next generation because that's when the real test come in.

But people at Sony and at gaf will blame other stuff when Sony will have their downfall in their gaming department. This will be responsible tho, but they won't stop so it doesn't matter anyway.
 

Sleepwalker

Member
Totoki and Jimbo never said PC was hurting them: the opposite, they said it's a very profitable business for them so they will continue doubling down on it.


I think for them is better to release day one only the GaaS, but to continue keeping their SP games 2-10 years since their original release (not a remaster/remake release) on PS at least until they release their own Sony PC store.
You Dont Get It Over Your Head GIF
 

yurinka

Member
We dont even know if the 2m is all they did for pc port. They could do the groundwork for alot of these ports wirh the original game and than that would add budget to the original release.

If we count physical. Do we also count key stores. Some of the ps pc games were sold for like half the price on release day. Do you have a source that the platformholder is only getting 24 to 37 bucks for their physical release?

And to the data from 2019 is pretty much flawed. Because up until recently the pc port initiative got excused by ps fanboys that's its only old ps4 games. Its very recently that they started porting more recent games. The pandemic helped alot to put revenue and profit to record highs and we just had one outlier after the shortage of very good sales and they still missed their target.

We will see how the next few years ago and how they do the next generation because that's when the real test come in.

But people at Sony and at gaf will blame other stuff when Sony will have their downfall in their gaming department. This will be responsible tho, but they won't stop so it doesn't matter anyway.
I'm a dev since 20 years ago, worked in a top publisher and have friends in many companies, big and small. I know what a port costs.

$2M is an expensive, generously price paid for a port even including the related testing, marketing, PR, etc. costs too. That must be the whole cost of the porting project, period.

We also know what Nixxes, Iron Galaxy and Jetpack interactive did in the PC ports, because they explained it multiple times both in general and specifically for different games: they handled the whole job related to making the ports to make sure the lead studios don't have to spend resources on the PC ports and can focus on making new games for consoles.

So they did like it's always done in case of ports: there's a producer in charge of the budget and tracking their milestones, someone who sends them the code and assets needed, and some contact from coding, design and art in case they have some question. Plus maybe in some very specific case for some little thing maybe the support some specific designer to agree some UI or controls adaptation. So Sucker Punch, Insomniac, ND, SSM etc basically didn't have to do anything.

The exception is Sumo with Sackboy, because in addition to develop games they are also a porting team and their game was a UE4 game so basically there's almost no porting job to be done and they were able to do it themselves.

Regarding the data, it isn't flawled at all. We saw the budgets in the leaks and Sony reports every year the revenue they do in every console segment and also in PC.
 

Fabieter

Member
Regarding the data, it isn't flawled at all. We saw the budgets in the leaks and Sony reports every year the revenue they do in every console segment and also in PC.

Where is the data we're it shows that they always raise the revenue and everything is fine since they started porting. That it didn't had any effect?. We had more than 2 years of pandemic which helped them alot yes and one year where there was hype because the ps5 was widely available but its still missed the sales target.

Let's see if they easily sell more than ps4 this gen and sell the ps6 as fast. No exclusives will kill the adoption rate next gen.
 

feynoob

Gold Member
Have you ever heard about NPV?
We will give you 10$ today instead of paying 100$ tomorrow is not really a good deal.
It's why I am not financial advisor and lurk in forums.

As a forever PlayStation owner I’m so fine with that!! Good for gaming! But I will still never be a PC gamer. Well unless Sony stops making hardware..
You need to have strong leg to be a PC gamer. Endless sitting in the chair for hours.
 

dano1

A Sheep
Oh I can do that. My 2 big issues are cheaters and hackers in my shooters and the big one is I want the best specs 💰💰💰💰
 

Felessan

Member
It's why I am not financial advisor and lurk in forums.
It's simple core stuff. If you want to talk about managerial decisions - it's a simple, but important brick.
"I want an elven forest with rosy pony" - it's a good wish that will ~~never happen~~.
 

feynoob

Gold Member
It's simple core stuff. If you want to talk about managerial decisions - it's a simple, but important brick.
"I want an elven forest with rosy pony" - it's a good wish that will ~~never happen~~.
Day1 would happen simply because it's the next logical step.

Once a company taste that $$$, they won't stop.
 
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