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Cringe Sony Is Being Defensive With The PS5 – And That Is A Smart Move

DunDunDunpachi

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Am pretty sure that they said it can be patched later on? Maybe wrong though
That would be a nice bonus for bargain-hunters, if nothing else.

Buy the X1 version on the cheap and free upgrade to the XsX version.

I'm pretty sure its going to work the same way it does now on 360 games on the Xbox One. You put the game in, it downloads all the updated stuff, you play the game.
Will a port that is designed to run on X1 run in "X1 backwards compatibility mode" on XsX or will you actually be playing the native XsX version? Not a dealbreaker either way but it's an important distinction.
 

stitch1

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Will a port that is designed to run on X1 run in "X1 backwards compatibility mode" on XsX or will you actually be playing the native XsX version? Not a dealbreaker either way but it's an important distinction.
I think thats the whole point of the "Smart Delivery" feature. You will be getting the correct version for the platform you choose to play it on regardless of what disk you have.
 
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SleepDoctor

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Ive been off the rumor/spec thread so long. Idk how fanboys have been able to fight over rumors for all these months lol.

MS announcing their 12 tf got me interested and in anticipation of Sony's announcement now. Worst part is I still have to wait on GoT.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I think thats the whole point of the "Smart Delivery" feature. You will be getting the correct version for the platform you choose to play it on regardless of what disk you have.
I can see that being the case for digital, but offering it for physical would be quite a step forward IMO.
 

NickFire

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I can see that being the case for digital, but offering it for physical would be quite a step forward IMO.
I didn't think of this situation before seeing your related posts. If they count physical in this program, that really could lead to some great deals at least near next gen launch (possibly for much longer). Taking that into account, I'll be surprised if discs count.
 

stitch1

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Agreed. This is going to be like the Xbox One to the Xbox One X. You get the enhanced edition of the game with the better hardware. Same disc either way.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I didn't think of this situation before seeing your related posts. If they count physical in this program, that really could lead to some great deals at least near next gen launch (possibly for much longer). Taking that into account, I'll be surprised if discs count.
There's no technical reason why it couldn't work. The X1 disc acts as a license key and the system downloads the XsX version of the game to the hard drive. Makes sense.

But I can see understand if there are licensing / financial reasons for not wanting to do so.

I'm not sure how much it will matter anyway, since I do not expect games to continue coming out for both the X1 and XsX for more than a year or two.

Since Smart Delivery is only guaranteed for first-party titles, it all depends on whether publishers use it. I would be shocked if third-parties used it and it wasn't also a feature between PS4->PS5.

Seeing as how it works like that with 360 to xbone, I'm sure it will most likely be the same. It just depends on which publishers will support it i think.
Seems like a good offering for Xbox customers, in either case.
 

ethomaz

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They could be using 7nm+ and be able to hit 2ghz, the 5700 also has boost clocks close to 2ghz.
They are not.
RX 5700 boost clock 1725Mhz... the opposite of nVidia arch it barely reach that clock for few moments.

RX 5700 is a clear example of 2000Mhz being impossible.
 

jshackles

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I didn't think of this situation before seeing your related posts. If they count physical in this program, that really could lead to some great deals at least near next gen launch (possibly for much longer). Taking that into account, I'll be surprised if discs count.
That's what everyone said about the Xbox One's backwards compatibility program, and yet here we are.

On topic: regardless of what Sony says or does, most of the fanboys in this thread would have said it was "the smart move".
 
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Dural

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They are not.
RX 5700 boost clock 1725Mhz... the opposite of nVidia arch it barely reach that clock for few moments.

RX 5700 is a clear example of 2000Mhz being impossible.
The 5700 XT has boost clocks over 2ghz from several vendors, standard boost is 1905mhz. Not impossible at all, especially if there are improvements to the architecture and using 7nm+.
 
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BigLee74

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This fucking forum 😂😂😂 Its a laugh, innit?

Folk really think Sony are being smart and strategy masters by saying nothing, doing nothing, and pulling out of events left right and centre? The same folk that take part in a 1000+ monster thread of guesses and dreams and hopes and begging for Sony to release any information whatsoever?

At best, they're being arrogant. At worst, they're in a quiet panic over the competition. In no way whatsoever, are they being smart.
 

NickFire

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That's what everyone said about the Xbox One's backwards compatibility program, and yet here we are.

On topic: regardless of what Sony says or does, most of the fanboys in this thread would have said it was "the smart move".
I credit your point too, but I see a huge difference between the two situations. I don't recall 360 games being turned into the One version like the new program offers. On the flip side to my own argument, I doubt MS cares if you get a better deal buying old console versions because this is probably more a system / eco system selling feature to them than anything else. So maybe the program will apply to disc sales too.

One thing I bet we can agree on, is that Bethesda probably already made a hard pass on the feature.
 

DeepEnigma

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Am I living in an alternate universe where Sony didn't introduce cross-buy 8 years ago?

In either case, I am curious how they will handle physical discs i.e if you buy the Xbox One / PS4 version of Cyberpunk 2077 and put that disc into your next-gen system, will it be patched to run like the next-gen port or... what?
Considering all games install off the disc completely, wouldn't it just download the patch like it does on the Pro/X.

Everything is going to be running in the same ecosystem now on both consoles.
 

stitch1

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One thing I bet we can agree on, is that Bethesda probably already made a hard pass on the feature.
I wouldn't be so sure. For one they did it once before on PC with Skyrim. If you had the OG version you got the upgraded Special Edition for free. Also, Bethesda has always been very friendly with the Xbox over the years. Don't be too surprised if they happen to opt in on this one. At this point they need all the good mojo they can get.
 

jshackles

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I credit your point too, but I see a huge difference between the two situations. I don't recall 360 games being turned into the One version like the new program offers. On the flip side to my own argument, I doubt MS cares if you get a better deal buying old console versions because this is probably more a system / eco system selling feature to them than anything else. So maybe the program will apply to disc sales too.

One thing I bet we can agree on, is that Bethesda probably already made a hard pass on the feature.
It's true that Xbox 360 games when put into the Xbox One didn't magically get upgraded to the latest "next-gen" version of the game, but when the One X came along that all kinda changed. Suddenly older games were getting a 4x resolution bump and post processing effects regardless of whether the developer put any work into upgrading the release at all. Some games (like Fallout 3, Final Fantasy XIII, and The Force Unleashed) got X Enhanced patches to run at 4K/60fps and look incredible and easily surpass most previous-gen ports that have arrived on the console. And they were accessible from the disc. Here's hoping their new system works the same way.

As for Bethesda....

 

LMJ

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This fucking forum 😂😂😂 Its a laugh, innit?

Folk really think Sony are being smart and strategy masters by saying nothing, doing nothing, and pulling out of events left right and centre? The same folk that take part in a 1000+ monster thread of guesses and dreams and hopes and begging for Sony to release any information whatsoever?

At best, they're being arrogant. At worst, they're in a quiet panic over the competition. In no way whatsoever, are they being smart.

Yeah, this is a gaming bolt article, not a Gaf news piece so not sure where "this fucking forum" comes into play..

Secondly Sony aren't the only ones pulling out of events, unless both Nintendo and Apple are part of the Sony family I'm not aware of lol (in which case MS are in trouble). That's a Corona virus concern, not a "oh nose wes gets nuttin to shows" concern...

As previously stated, worst case scenario Sonys console is a bit weaker, but I doubt a multi billion dollar company chapter is currently wetting itself over MS awesome announced specs...more likely they are waiting for the games to be ready to show in a large personal presentation similar to the PS4 one...
 

darkinstinct

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They are not.
RX 5700 boost clock 1725Mhz... the opposite of nVidia arch it barely reach that clock for few moments.

RX 5700 is a clear example of 2000Mhz being impossible.
5700 XT can hit 2 GHz. And the expensive cooling solution and the devkit design suggest that it actually does run at very high clock speeds in PS5. Is it smart to do that? Probably not. So why do it? If that AMD test data was indeed just for the PS5 boost mode for BC - why go to 2 GHz? Why not simply double PS4 Pro clock speeds to 1.822 GHz? And if it is just a devkit APU and has no relevance to the actual APU: Why would you test BC modes on a devkit, why would you even build them into a devkit APU that will not end up in a retail product? That actual 12+ TF PS5 APU would have to be fully designed back in April 2019 for a 2020 launch. XSX APU was fully designed back in April 2018 for a 2020 launch, and everybody says that Microsoft was behind Sony by quite a bit.

You do have valid points, 36 CU @ 2 GHz is pretty damn stupid. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that a 12 TF APU exists (AMD was testing Microsofts 12 TF APU at the same time as they were testing that 36 CU Oberon) - it just means that they will probably not even hit those 2 GHz. They could do 40 CU @ 1.9 GHz for 9.73 TF. They would take a loss on yields, but they would reach that 10 TF ballpark. They could do 36 CU @ 1.9 GHz for 8.76 TF. They could go crazy with 40 CU @ 2 GHz for 10.24 TF. But that's about it. You can't just cherrypick from the AMD test data what you like. It said full chip for 36 CU with 4 deactivated. The AMD leak is the most legitimate data we have regarding next gen consoles, because everything it says has so far been proven correct. From Renoir to Arcturus to Arden. It's true, all of it. I don't know why you are so hesitant to believe this data set that has so far not been proven wrong and instead give more weight to insiders that are changing their prediction of who is in the lead on a bi-weekly basis. It doesn't make sense to me.

AMD leak and have so far not been proven wrong by any official information we have, just by insiders pretending that it's not the reality.
 

The Pleasure

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While Sony is smart they have always been bitches, they lead the market but can't actually lead the market.

They always wait for their competition so they can position themselves. Sure this is a smart move but it lacks confidence and leadership qualities. I mean even as we speak they've straight up said they're waiting on Microsoft for price so they can set theirs for the PS5.

That's pretty pathetic.
Don't have this man anymore
 
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darkinstinct

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While Sony is smart they have always been bitches, they lead the market but can't actually lead the market.
That's not a Sony problem, though. The market leader always gets greedy and protective of what they have. How many times has the leader of a generation actually been able to transport that lead into the next generation? I'd say from PS1 to PS2 and that's it. If you are the market leader you have to keep growing. Since the number of consoles you can produce and sell is limited, you have to maximize what you earn with them. Which means cheaper hardware.
 

BigLee74

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Yeah, this is a gaming bolt article, not a Gaf news piece so not sure where "this fucking forum" comes into play..
My bad, can't believe I missed that!

There are still a fair few on this thread that believe it however, and the point stands. The silence is more worrying than strategically smart!
 
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phil_t98

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My bad, can't believe I missed that!

There are still a fair few on this thread that believe it however, and the point stands. The silence is more worrying than strategically smart!
Completly agree. It’s like they revealed the ps5 logo as the first step and have gone very quiet since. Seems strange to me personally not to follow up the logo with more details. Maybe Microsoft showing off the console in that trailer put them into a bit of a panic and messed with their reveal schedule
 
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SleepDoctor

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5700 XT can hit 2 GHz. And the expensive cooling solution and the devkit design suggest that it actually does run at very high clock speeds in PS5. Is it smart to do that? Probably not. So why do it? If that AMD test data was indeed just for the PS5 boost mode for BC - why go to 2 GHz? Why not simply double PS4 Pro clock speeds to 1.822 GHz? And if it is just a devkit APU and has no relevance to the actual APU: Why would you test BC modes on a devkit, why would you even build them into a devkit APU that will not end up in a retail product? That actual 12+ TF PS5 APU would have to be fully designed back in April 2019 for a 2020 launch. XSX APU was fully designed back in April 2018 for a 2020 launch, and everybody says that Microsoft was behind Sony by quite a bit.

You do have valid points, 36 CU @ 2 GHz is pretty damn stupid. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that a 12 TF APU exists (AMD was testing Microsofts 12 TF APU at the same time as they were testing that 36 CU Oberon) - it just means that they will probably not even hit those 2 GHz. They could do 40 CU @ 1.9 GHz for 9.73 TF. They would take a loss on yields, but they would reach that 10 TF ballpark. They could do 36 CU @ 1.9 GHz for 8.76 TF. They could go crazy with 40 CU @ 2 GHz for 10.24 TF. But that's about it. You can't just cherrypick from the AMD test data what you like. It said full chip for 36 CU with 4 deactivated. The AMD leak is the most legitimate data we have regarding next gen consoles, because everything it says has so far been proven correct. From Renoir to Arcturus to Arden. It's true, all of it. I don't know why you are so hesitant to believe this data set that has so far not been proven wrong and instead give more weight to insiders that are changing their prediction of who is in the lead on a bi-weekly basis. It doesn't make sense to me.

AMD leak and have so far not been proven wrong by any official information we have, just by insiders pretending that it's not the reality.

How old is this?

Curious since he says "2019 starts on fire"
 

ethomaz

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The 5700 XT has boost clocks over 2ghz from several vendors, standard boost is 1905mhz. Not impossible at all, especially if there are improvements to the architecture and using 7nm+.
1905Mhz right with a big cooler...
Even so that boost clock is marketing.
You can give up
The 2000Mhz dream... impossible... zero chance.

On the AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT we know that the Base Clock is 1605MHz by the spec. The “Game Clock” is 1755MHz and the “Boost Clock” is 1905MHz. These are the reference specifications.



In the timeline graph above we are showing you the real-time GPU clock speed while playing a game on the Radeon RX 5700 XT. The clock speed is a bit more dynamic and frantic on this video card compared to the Radeon RX 5700. From this graph you can see that the clock frequency hovers mostly between 1795-1855MHz while gaming. The “Game Clock” is 1755MHz, therefore the Radeon RX 5700 XT is boosting beyond the game clock while gaming.

This is a positive result and shows that it is not throttling the clock speed. However, it is not reaching the “Boost Clock” of 1905MHz at all while gaming, this is the peak of what the boost clock is possible of, but it just can’t get there while gaming at default settings. The average of all this clock frequency while gaming is 1836MHz. This is definitely above the game clock.
 
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ethomaz

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5700 XT can hit 2 GHz. And the expensive cooling solution and the devkit design suggest that it actually does run at very high clock speeds in PS5. Is it smart to do that? Probably not. So why do it? If that AMD test data was indeed just for the PS5 boost mode for BC - why go to 2 GHz? Why not simply double PS4 Pro clock speeds to 1.822 GHz? And if it is just a devkit APU and has no relevance to the actual APU: Why would you test BC modes on a devkit, why would you even build them into a devkit APU that will not end up in a retail product? That actual 12+ TF PS5 APU would have to be fully designed back in April 2019 for a 2020 launch. XSX APU was fully designed back in April 2018 for a 2020 launch, and everybody says that Microsoft was behind Sony by quite a bit.

You do have valid points, 36 CU @ 2 GHz is pretty damn stupid. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that a 12 TF APU exists (AMD was testing Microsofts 12 TF APU at the same time as they were testing that 36 CU Oberon) - it just means that they will probably not even hit those 2 GHz. They could do 40 CU @ 1.9 GHz for 9.73 TF. They would take a loss on yields, but they would reach that 10 TF ballpark. They could do 36 CU @ 1.9 GHz for 8.76 TF. They could go crazy with 40 CU @ 2 GHz for 10.24 TF. But that's about it. You can't just cherrypick from the AMD test data what you like. It said full chip for 36 CU with 4 deactivated. The AMD leak is the most legitimate data we have regarding next gen consoles, because everything it says has so far been proven correct. From Renoir to Arcturus to Arden. It's true, all of it. I don't know why you are so hesitant to believe this data set that has so far not been proven wrong and instead give more weight to insiders that are changing their prediction of who is in the lead on a bi-weekly basis. It doesn't make sense to me.

AMD leak and have so far not been proven wrong by any official information we have, just by insiders pretending that it's not the reality.
No matter what expensive cooler solution you put in a console form factor it will be inferior to the consumer desktop cheap cooler solution.

No console form fact will ever have clocks better than similar desktop parts.

People really have some dreams about 2Ghz lol

And no... RX 5700 XT can’t reach the advertised 1905Mhz boost clock... I don’t even know why you say 2Ghz lol that is only reachable via overclock manual of by factory vendor.

No console will ever do overclock.

BTW that is for dedicated GPU chip reaching these clocks... APU clocks are way lower due the complexity of the silicon.

You should be amazed if any next-gen console has 1.8Ghz on GPU.
 
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King Harkinian

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Don't have this man anymore
CrazyKenKutaragi responsible for
PS1, PS2, PS3, Audio Chip SNES, PSP?
104+155+85+80 = 420million (+/-)

CrazyMarkCerny responsible for
PS4, Knack ...
109+0+0 = 109million

If the PS4 was made by CKK, the PS4 would have had not 1 but 2 CELL and top notch nivea gpu for $599. They would still use XMB and overall the PS4 would have been a much better success.

It would have been a much more radical system, in vein of previous PlayStations. He would have taken more risks than Cerny. CKK is getting way too much shit on and i wont allow it!
 

Texas Pride

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Shit like this post isn't even based in facts. Like, AT ALL. Hopes and dreams?? Trying to stay relevant???

You gotta be trolling. Gotta be.. Ask Sony if they think Xbox is relevant - if you can get them to show up, that is... Jesus christ.


Truth set you off huh? Oh well. That's life. Without the rest of MS subsidizing the Xbox division they'd have folded years ago.
 

LOLCats

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That would be a nice bonus for bargain-hunters, if nothing else.

Buy the X1 version on the cheap and free upgrade to the XsX version.


Will a port that is designed to run on X1 run in "X1 backwards compatibility mode" on XsX or will you actually be playing the native XsX version? Not a dealbreaker either way but it's an important distinction.
In theory this gen wont need BC updates like 360 compatibility did. X1 after all is just a PC. Other than the x1 unique memory cache i cant think of any major hurdles, but who knows.

i kind of expect all X1 games will just work personally. Its a great thing, because it gives people the chance to upgrade and still play their disc backlog or existing digital library.
 
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thelastword

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Yeah yeah......It would be interesting what your take was on Ken when he delivered the PS1-3.......I know the rabids tore Ken a new one on these forums after PS3's launch, and now they all LOVE Ken......Ken was great, but Cerny is great. Sony is in good hands for hardware.....
 
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darkinstinct

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Wow, I just realized that Cerny was only responsible for PS4. I always thought he was the technical mastermind behind Playstation with how everyone painted him as a god. But he really was only responsible for the weakest generational leap of all time? Wonder what people would think about him if Xbox One was at the same specs and he didn't get told by devs to increase RAM (Cerny originally planned 2 GB of RAM, was then told by devs to go for 4, got then lucky with the increase and shipped with 8). Now I can totally see a 8 TF PS5 that was increased to 9.2 TF late in the development. Cerny is no hardware god, he is trying to make the most of a limited budget. He would never have anticipated raytracing in a console back in 2017, unlike Microsoft who were actually working on it at that point in time. It all makes sense now.
 

Dural

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Wow, I just realized that Cerny was only responsible for PS4. I always thought he was the technical mastermind behind Playstation with how everyone painted him as a god. But he really was only responsible for the weakest generational leap of all time? Wonder what people would think about him if Xbox One was at the same specs and he didn't get told by devs to increase RAM (Cerny originally planned 2 GB of RAM, was then told by devs to go for 4, got then lucky with the increase and shipped with 8). Now I can totally see a 8 TF PS5 that was increased to 9.2 TF late in the development. Cerny is no hardware god, he is trying to make the most of a limited budget. He would never have anticipated raytracing in a console back in 2017, unlike Microsoft who were actually working on it at that point in time. It all makes sense now.
Yeah, I don't get it either. You have off the shelf PC parts and got lucky with the ram increase, the architecture is really nothing special. The way he likes to do backwards compatibility sucks too; downclocking and turning off CUs to match the original hardware, lots of wasted silicon that could be used for higher resolutions and better performance.

Say what you want about Crazy Ken, he certainly made some interesting architectures.
 
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Filippos

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Now we know why they have been so quiet all the time. XD
Maybe there will still checking how much they can boost everything without melting the machine.
 

SuperLupeRap

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Now we know why they have been so quiet all the time. XD
Maybe there will still checking how much they can boost everything without melting the machine.
Of course they were lol. It's just very funny now looking back at the excuses Sony fanboys were making for them not showing the console. Some ridiculous excuses.