• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sony patented cooling solution - likely for ps5

geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Found by B Brudda26

WIPO - Search International and National Patent Collections

patentscope.wipo.int

Eutectic liquid metal type paste so there is better heat transfer and more consistent than thermal paste.

One of the ps4 pro issues was early models were very loud, some later models were much quieter, variations in heat trasnfer needed to be solved for faster ps5
08uzNzy.png


 
Last edited:
M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Liquid Metal degrade pretty fast and then you have to replace it. Also Gallium is pretty non friendly for solder, Aluminium and I don't think that it's going to be in IT sector used on mass production level. Sure patents can be done, becuase why not.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
M1chl said:
Liquid Metal degrade pretty fast and then you have to replace it. Also Gallium is pretty non friendly for solder, Aluminium and I don't think that it's going to be in IT sector used on mass production level. Sure patents can be done, becuase why not.
Click to expand...

Mentions Ga, In or Sn or eutectric between them, also you can Ni coat the Al.


But who knows, something is up for this stuff to pop up before teardown.

Maybe Sony have solved the issues of using this tech, hence the patent.
 
Last edited:
cormack12

cormack12

Gold Member
I thought a little Mark Cerny was getting shipped inside each one to blow on it when it got hot

wke.gif


I just want the teardown tbh - I'm not going to feel confident with a heatsink and a sheet of liquid metal. Probably the two pertinent parts are what problems does it solve, and whether these are generalised semiconductor issues or specific to the semiconductor used by Sony. It sounds interesting though from a purely tech point of view. Sounds like it changes state so there will be questions raised around brittleness as well. As with anything like this, the innovation looks cool it's all in the delivery when it's first generation at scale. Definitely taking a chance, but I'm surprised they wouldn't have pre-tested with the last iteration of the PS4 PRo SKU's for example. Just to make sure the process works at this level and get some early indicators.


[0004]
　However, when the amount of heat generated by the semiconductor chip increases, it becomes difficult to sufficiently cool the semiconductor chip due to the thermal resistance of the grease. In the semiconductor device of Patent Document 2, instead of grease, a metal that is liquefied by heat during operation of the semiconductor chip is used as a heat conductive material between the semiconductor chip and the radiator. When such a metal is used, the thermal resistance between the semiconductor chip and the radiator is lowered, and the cooling performance of the semiconductor chip can be improved.

[0005]
　In a structure in which a fluid metal is used as a heat conductive material, it is possible to limit the range in which the heat conductive material spreads even when the semiconductor device changes its posture or vibrates in order to sufficiently exert its cooling performance. is important. Further, it is important that the force sufficiently acts on the semiconductor chip when the radiator is pressed against the semiconductor chip. That is, the adhesion between the semiconductor chip and the radiator is also important.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
geordiemp said:
One of the ps4 pro issues was early models were very loud, some later models were much quieter, variations in heat trasnfer needed to be solved for faster ps5
Click to expand...

Yup, mine is still dead silent, I think it's dependent from were did you get that console, heard there are like 20 factories around the world. Mine is the second revision, bought it in November 2016:




The flash makes it too dirty. :lollipop_downcast_sweat: Well, never cleaned it before.
 
Last edited:
Bankai

Bankai

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Yup, mine is still dead silent, I think it's dependent from were did you get that console, heard there are like 20 factories around the world. Mine is the second revision, bought it in November 2016:




The flash makes it too dirty. :lollipop_downcast_sweat: Well, never cleaned it before.
Click to expand...


Uhu :lollipop_Mr_Smith:

Now boot up God of War (2018) and look at the map. Now make the same video.
My PS4 pro tries to cool itself by begging for a glass of water, but I refuse. Silly console, I'm not its slave.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Bankai said:
Uhu :lollipop_Mr_Smith:

Now boot up God of War (2018) and look at the map. Now make the same video.
My PS4 pro tries to cool itself by begging for a glass of water, but I refuse. Silly console, I'm not its slave.
Click to expand...

Never seen any noisy PS4 before, I think the lineup we get is probably a good one. It's said that there are like 20 of those, and of course each should be pointed at some markets.

If you seriously need that God of War video, I'll try to make one for you if you don't believe me.
 
oldergamer

oldergamer

Member
Esppiral

Esppiral

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Never seen any noisy PS4 before, I think the lineup we get is probably a good one. It's said that there are like 20 of those, and of course each should be pointed at some markets.

If you seriously need that God of War video, I'll try to make one for you if you don't believe me.
Click to expand...

My launch bPS4 was a jet engine, as were my friend's, with any game, Uncharted 4 and GOW made it scream so loud that I stopped playing them, now I have a ps4 slim and I couldn't be happier that thing is dead silent even under very hot weather.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Esppiral said:
My launch bPS4 was a jet engine, as were my friend's, with any game, Uncharted 4 and GOW made it scream so loud that I stopped playing them, now I have a ps4 slim and I couldn't be happier that thing is dead silent even under very hot weather.
Click to expand...

I believe all the claims, but it's strange that more than 100 PS4's I've seen all of them are extremely quite, some are full of dust and in shitty situations as well. I think it's a matter of where your PS4/Pro/Slim was assembled, this can't be all luck what we got here. The only noisy one I found is my sister's base PS4 it's so noisy that's unbearable, and it's actually from early gray market, US model PS4's! So it only solidifies my theory.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Birdo said:
Liquid metal thermal paste has a very short life, compared to regular stuff, and goes bad after time (As demonstrated by several PC builders on YT).

I'll assume, and hope, this is a special new type.
Click to expand...

It was patent dated yesterday - the patent obviusly solves the issue with eutectic pastes thats why it has been patented. Sony will have engineered this to death to base 120 million units off.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
GreatnessRD said:
OK Sony I see you. Using that Thermal Grizzly eh shordy! :pie_roffles: :messenger_fire:
Click to expand...

Could be that Eutectic, could be a Japanese supplier or other, we dont know the supplier or the make up of the Ga, In and Sn in the alloy.

The patent is about how they enclose and asssemble the solution on the board. Getting an extra 400 MHz is not to be sniffed at, imagine PC space to follow.
 
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Kamina said:
What Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem is not telling us is the fact that he is living in Siberia.
Opening the windows for 5 seconds keeps the PS4 cool for a day.
Click to expand...

Nah, I live here, temperature is considered hot in general: :messenger_winking_tongue:

location-map-of-oman.jpg


Oman%2Bmap%2B-%2BSalalah.jpg


www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

But I usually have the AC on, so room temperature is usually around 23-25C.

And you're from Austria! It's like living in a freezer.🥶
 
Last edited:
Kamina

Kamina

Golden Boy
Bo_Hazem said:
Nah, I live here, temperature is considered hot in general: :messenger_winking_tongue:

location-map-of-oman.jpg


Oman%2Bmap%2B-%2BSalalah.jpg


www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

But I usually have the AC on, so room temperature is usually around 23-25C.

And you're from Austria! It's like living in a freezer.🥶
Click to expand...
Then you must not be able to hear the PS4 due to the sandstorms 🤔

Nah, Austria is pretty warm these days. Especially in summer.
We have 25°C just right now. Top Summer temperatures can reach from 35 to 40°C
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Kamina said:
Then you must not be able to hear the PS4 due to the sandstorms 🤔

Nah, Austria is pretty warm these days. Especially in summer.
We have 25°C just right now. Top Summer temperatures can reach from 35 to 40°C
Click to expand...

Maybe you need to invest in a good AC, GREE is a great one ;) Here it's very rare to see something beyond 33-35C max, and now it's one of the best seasons. I still believe it's a matter of factory assembly, some factories might be fucked up or lack enough quality control.

It's sub-tropical.

1-1.jpg


As it's still warm in winter we get plenty of tourists from Germany, Denmark, and other cold countries. They catch up some tan to brag about it when they head back home. :messenger_winking_tongue:
 
Last edited:
Eliciel

Eliciel

Member
cormack12 said:
I thought a little Mark Cerny was getting shipped inside each one to blow on it when it got hot

wke.gif


I just want the teardown tbh - I'm not going to feel confident with a heatsink and a sheet of liquid metal. Probably the two pertinent parts are what problems does it solve, and whether these are generalised semiconductor issues or specific to the semiconductor used by Sony. It sounds interesting though from a purely tech point of view. Sounds like it changes state so there will be questions raised around brittleness as well. As with anything like this, the innovation looks cool it's all in the delivery when it's first generation at scale. Definitely taking a chance, but I'm surprised they wouldn't have pre-tested with the last iteration of the PS4 PRo SKU's for example. Just to make sure the process works at this level and get some early indicators.


[0004]
　However, when the amount of heat generated by the semiconductor chip increases, it becomes difficult to sufficiently cool the semiconductor chip due to the thermal resistance of the grease. In the semiconductor device of Patent Document 2, instead of grease, a metal that is liquefied by heat during operation of the semiconductor chip is used as a heat conductive material between the semiconductor chip and the radiator. When such a metal is used, the thermal resistance between the semiconductor chip and the radiator is lowered, and the cooling performance of the semiconductor chip can be improved.

[0005]
　In a structure in which a fluid metal is used as a heat conductive material, it is possible to limit the range in which the heat conductive material spreads even when the semiconductor device changes its posture or vibrates in order to sufficiently exert its cooling performance. is important. Further, it is important that the force sufficiently acts on the semiconductor chip when the radiator is pressed against the semiconductor chip. That is, the adhesion between the semiconductor chip and the radiator is also important.
Click to expand...

....it is so simple, but yet so true.
 
oldergamer

oldergamer

Member
geordiemp said:
Reading is hard, today is 14th august, yesterday was when exactly ?


vBLDZFd.png


Click to expand...

.... and when was the patent filed?

Priority date (day.month.year)
04.02.2019

We've been seeing this posted for more then a year. I still don't see any evidence its related to PS5.
 
Last edited:
onesvenus

onesvenus

Member
Isn't that only talking about the thermal paste and not the cooling per se? It doesn't seem like liquid cooling at all
 
Jason28

Jason28

Has a tiny dick and smaller e-peen
What does it mean , liquid metal colling ? Is it better that the normal one , like in series X ?
 
Abriael_GN

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
Sejan

Sejan

Member
onesvenus said:
Isn't that only talking about the thermal paste and not the cooling per se? It doesn't seem like liquid cooling at all
Click to expand...
Jason28 said:
What does it mean , liquid metal colling ? Is it better that the normal one , like in series X ?
Click to expand...
Liquid Metal cooling refers to a thermally conductive compound that would theoretically replace traditional thermal paste. It is significantly more thermally conductive than pastes, but generally has trouble staying in place. Its very effective, but its use cases are rather limited because it tends to leak out from between the cpu and the cooler and fry the motherboard. If they have an effective system for using and containing liquid metal to these problems, it'll mean a significantly more effective cooling solution than XBox Series X regardless of its thermal solution. A system that uses liquid metal generally has a 5-10 degree cooling advantage over paste and even more than that over thermal pads.


Edit: To be clear, if they use liquid metal without a perfect solution for containing it, they'll have hardware problems similar in scope to the 360's RRoD. With that said, I'd love to see liquid metal cooling used effectively in a system like this. They performance gains would be huge. I don't expect anyone to use liquid metal for cooling in a mainstream product at this time.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sony Files Patent for NFTs to Allow Transfers Between Games and Consoles
35
2K
SoloKingRobert replied
Sony could soon automatically play portions of games for you (the feature is often already used in many MMORPG games)
Platform 2
83
3K
-Minsc- replied
Sony Patents To Let Players Replay Campaign From Any Possible Point
Game Dev Platform 2
73
5K
cash_longfellow replied
Sony New Patent Aims to Change the PlayStation Controller Temperature For Haptics
Game Dev Hardware
33
2K
Torrent of Pork replied
[Part I] Thoughts on six patent applications related to a unique PS5, and what it may mean for SIE's future
14
2K
GAF machine replied
Top Bottom