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Sony pays for reviews confirmed. What is Shawn Layden’s Job?

ABnormal

Member
Why pay when the fear of fanboys rage are enough to protect your big blockbuster games.

Specially when the game is either a beloved nostalgic IP or a narrative driven drama with ultrarealistic depiction of violence and human suffering...

Yeah, sure... The fear of the terrible fanboys...

I'm pretty sure the force of gains from clickbait reviews is FAR more strong, and that comes from BAD scores, especially when a game is good.
Death Stranding was very important for Sony, but nobody prevented several reviewers bash it for absurd things. Where was the power of Sony and the fear of the terrible fanboys then?
 

RedVIper

Banned
Has there even been any tangible proof of this?.
With all the leaks we get in the gaming industry you'd think that at this point we'd at least have some leaked emails or documents if bribes or other forms of pressure were commonplace.

Sony doesn't need to send out emails to put pressure. If you're a small outlet just being afraid of being excluded from events, not getting review copies and wtv is enough to "pressure" you into being favorable.

There's no need for actual bribes.
 

ROMhack

Member
Nothing's paid but there is a lot of pressure when it comes to reviews. Both from fanboys - nobody likes negative press - and also from publishers - either because you know them personally or are worried about pissing them off.
 
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Klayzer

Member
Yeah, sure... The fear of the terrible fanboys...

I'm pretty sure the force of gains from clickbait reviews is FAR more strong, and that comes from BAD scores, especially when a game is good.
Death Stranding was very important for Sony, but nobody prevented several reviewers bash it for absurd things. Where was the power of Sony and the fear of the terrible fanboys then?
Uhh, err, uhh, err..... crickets
 

nowhat

Member
Remember when tons of people (here on Gaf too) had a mental breakdown when Jim Sterling gave Breath of the Wild a 7?. I don't particularly like the dude but the reviews seemed pretty fair IMO
I think the problem was that back when Jim used to do reviews, he used a scale of 1 to 10 as it should be used - so a five would be an decidedly average game, and a seven is above average with some issues that bring the score down. You may not agree with the issues he had, which is fine, but he didn't trash the game completely. But generally with gaming reviews, 7 means "it sucks". That's a problem of the industry, not of Jim.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
Why would Sony need to pay for reviews in the first place?

This isn't about Sony paying for reviews, this is about outlets buying access any way they can to get a leg up on the competition.
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Hahahahaahaha back slaps and high fives all round.

Just needs that Anchoman gif where they are al jumping up in he air.

Get a room or something.
 

pLow7

Member
Sooooo did the Checks get lost for the Death Stranding Reviews? I'm sure, they didn't offer enough money for the Days gone Reviews too, cheap ass Sony.
 

kuncol02

Banned
Has there even been any tangible proof of this?.
Ubisoft also paid bunch of people to play Far Cry Primal on streams. I know that because it happened even on non gaming channels.
Basically all reviews should be treated as "paid" as long as gaming sites are surviving on publishers and not subscribers money.
 
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I always assumed Reviewers got paid in Games and PS+/XBL Subs

Are you telling me that I could be given a lot of money for sucking up and saying a Game is 10/10?
 

Shantae

Banned
I always assumed Reviewers got paid in Games and PS+/XBL Subs

Are you telling me that I could be given a lot of money for sucking up and saying a Game is 10/10?
Exactly. This kind of thing is always overlooked, and to me...it's close to the same thing. Getting a game for free, regardless if it's for "review purposes", is getting paid off in my opinion. That's why I don't fucking trust or care for reviews done by anyone who was given the game.

The simple fact that someone is given a game for free, affects the outcome of how someone might feel about a game I think. They didn't spend $60 of their own money towards it. They are making revenue from the review, so they are essentially being paid.

They aren't being given a check with a dollar value, but they are still being given special treatment that a paying customer doesn't get. The reviews of any of these individuals is going to swayed, whether it's consciously or not.
 
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Birdo

Banned
Nobody actually believes that reviews are paid for.

The problem is that early copies come with lists of things you can and can't do. If you don't follow them, you never get early copies again. Ergo, the review isn't 100% faithful through fear of never geting another review copy in the future.

I know people who have had this happen to them in the film industry. You don't get invited back to early screenings if you aren't a good boy.
 

shaddam

Member
I remember when I was editor on the biggest Battlefield site in my country, our EA contact not even wanted to give us BF1 and BF4 test copys. Somehow in the end we got it, but there was no "you have to write this and this". They wanted our domain BTW :messenger_tears_of_joy: We were young, they could problaby pressure us to write more favorable things, but after we realised they needed the domain they had no chance. The site closed years ago, but the domain is still taken :messenger_winking_tongue:
 
Yeah, sure... The fear of the terrible fanboys...

I'm pretty sure the force of gains from clickbait reviews is FAR more strong, and that comes from BAD scores, especially when a game is good.
Death Stranding was very important for Sony, but nobody prevented several reviewers bash it for absurd things. Where was the power of Sony and the fear of the terrible fanboys then?
It was a GOTY contender.
If it were a game from a developer with less fame and hype than Kojima, it would have been ignored.
 
Access journalism doesn't work like that. They don't get a check sent directly to them. If they go against the grain, they lose access. Some obey happily. Many others fear to speak the truth.
 

zombrex

Member
Give a bad review and you lose access to press events, free review copies and exclusive swag. Anyone who thinks the relationship between the publishers and reviewers is anything but corrupt is delusional.
 
Give a bad review and you lose access to press events, free review copies and exclusive swag. Anyone who thinks the relationship between the publishers and reviewers is anything but corrupt is delusional.
Sounds right. If you want the most objective reviews, subscribe to an independent game reviewing Youtuber with similar tastes.
 

Lunk

Member
Give a bad review and you lose access to press events, free review copies and exclusive swag. Anyone who thinks the relationship between the publishers and reviewers is anything but corrupt is delusional.
I think it's less that the publisher itself yeets you out and more that a lot of journalists want scoops with the individual directors and creators, and are afraid to not pay lipservice. Just try to watch the last couple of high profile Sony reviews on KindaFunny and how much Greg Miller and Co. are absolutely babbling about nonsense just to make it sound like they like the game they're describing, while looking like they couldn't care less for it (God of War).
 

Shin

Banned
They don't get straight up bribes.

But we'd be kidding ourselves to think that Sony (Or Xbox for that matter) doesn't pressure reviewers into giving their games better scores.
Reviewers are influencers, infleuncers get paid.
That's how I see it, notice how little to none advertising is being done for games these days.
Why pay for one ad when you can spend the same money and reach a larger fanbase by using reviewers, we will never hear about but I suspect that's the business model.
 

CamHostage

Member
Getting a game for free, regardless if it's for "review purposes", is getting paid off in my opinion. That's why I don't fucking trust or care for reviews done by anyone who was given the game.

So, does that work in other jobs? "Here, your job is to dig a ditch, and your bonus will be paid in shovels, so when you're done, you get to go home and dig holes at home for FREE!"

The software is review product needed to do the job. And you're not really playing it for "fun" when doing your work (usually the review process is a compressed period where you have to play the game in unrealistic ways of marathon sessions and debug checking and difficulty level testruns,) so you kind of blow the best experience with it the first time through and then usually, you never want to play the game again (or don't have much time, since you have other work to do) once you're done with it. If it was something extravagant like cars or laptops that you got to keep (they don't), then absolutely there's a line crossed (and with games often being $60, there is a question of where the line is drawn,) but software and movies and music and things like that are small commodities.

Also, you're saying reviewers get swayed because they get a game for free, but they get ALL games for free in that scenario, so where does the bias come in? Unless they're just giving out 10s, like, "Ubisoft gave me this game free and it's great! And Sony gave me this other game free and, guess what, it's great! Oh, I just got another game in the mail, I don't know what it is, but I bet it's great! Every game comes right to me, and they're all GREAT!!" No, you'd be out of a job immediamente if your editorial credibility was so nonexistent. It's a profession, and even if you get into it motivated by getting free stuff, that thrill burns off real quick with the daily grind of doing the work.

(By the way, usually you as the reviewer don't get a free copy of the game, your company does. That copy goes into the office library in a big outlet, though now more and more, people are working indie, so that line disappears, but if you're a freelancer, you still sometimes have to send your copy back as part of your contract, or sometimes, that "free game" is part of payment for work. Also, in the old days, you'd get a "review build" rather than a boxed copy, partially for this reason, and that copy could only be played on debug kits, which journalists were responsible for returning to the console maker if they quit being journalists. These days, gaming is digital, and so it depends on how it works; sometimes a reviewer will get a game key for the software, but with modern digital, integrated services like Steam also have "Media Access" that's like a skeleton key to all of Steam for games made available for coverage, and those accounts are heavily monitored and rotated so, if you only had a media badge for a month, you lose your "free game" at the end of the access period.)

Sony doesn't need to send out emails to put pressure. If you're a small outlet just being afraid of being excluded from events, not getting review copies and wtv is enough to "pressure" you into being favorable.

If you're that small an outlet, you're probably not going to too many events in the first place. (Also, the idea that journalists are trotting around to "events" all the time is overblown. There aren't that many events, and especially for reviewers, you probably won't be leaving home or the office.) And if you're a big outlet, the publisher would be foolish in holding a grudge since the job of PR is to get the public to relate to their games through exposure.

(If you make it your job to be an unrelenting complainer about games, like Jim Sterling, then yeah, you may not be high on a publisher's list, but those guys are specifically rarely and usually not at all in the market of doing scored reviews anyway. They're commentators, and they don't have the same job as those who objectively and fairly review product. Also, even those guys usually still get on the list anyway, sometimes it's just not as cutthroat as you think, and in PR, even bad press is sometimes good press for sales, in weird ways.)
 
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Fbh

Member
Sony doesn't need to send out emails to put pressure. If you're a small outlet just being afraid of being excluded from events, not getting review copies and wtv is enough to "pressure" you into being favorable.

There's no need for actual bribes.

Ok but is there any precedent? Can you point at any specific publication or reviewers that have been blacklisted by Sony for giving a fair but negative review to one of their games?.
If someone gives a positive review to a game they didn't enjoy out of some fear of being blacklisted that's supported by nothing but their imagination then I'd blame that on the reviewer and not the publisher.

lol im about to play it, I had it since day 1. Zero interest. Fuck ittt.

Funny shit is I played it, forced myself to finish it and I'd give it a 7. I can name like three really big things I didn't like about the game.

There's definitely quite a few issues with the game.
I personally liked it because I think the good massively outweighs the bad, but it's one of those games I can totally see being a 10/10 to some people and a 6/10 to others
 

thelastword

Banned
I bet you if Uncharted 2 got a bevy of 3/10 and 5/10's. Game reviewers would be the most honest, the highest regarded journalists in all media by the the PCPP (persecution complex paranoid pessimists)

Why bother paying when you're making great, high quality games.
POST OF THE YEAR.....I call it POTY, we should start dishing awards here annually.....for the best candidate...
 

Klayzer

Member
Like clockwork. Anytime a Sony or Nintendo game gets very high scores, the conspiracy review theorists come out from their lairs with the usual accusations of bribes, favoritism, nostalgia, etc.

I didn't read very much bribery talk on here when a Microsoft game gets high scores. Where was all the questioning of reviews for Ori, Cuphead, Horizon and other high scoring Xbox games.
 

GodofWhimsy

Member
This thread TLDR: 30+ year old men getting worked up over and being loyal to gaming brands. These are fucking console manufacturers and video game distributors/producers, not sports teams. Why let yourself get so invested in soulless corporations? I can even kinda understand getting riled up over individual games because those are art and art flares up passion. But getting all riled up over hardware or corporate brands? I don't get it. I fucking love capitalism and I don't get. As far as I'm concerned they exist to meet my needs and that's it. No loyalty from me.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Paid or not, it's in the reviews own best interest to give high scores to games from big AAA publishers, if they'll bash the games the publishers will simply cut them of from the review copies, which means no material, which means no views, click, comments etc., which means less salary. It's not a coincidence most games from AAA publishers,no matter how mediocre or bad they are, get 8.5 at worst. They all perfectly coexist with each other, reviewers get their material for views and the publishers get their free marketing, it's the consumers who are screwed in the process.

But then again, there are shitloads of people who watch the gameplays and cannot decide for themselves whether they like it or not, or can't even distinguish CGI or a cut-scene from the actual gameplay to begin with, so the reviewers/publishers would be fucking dumb not to leverage on all those clueless fools.

It's all just a business, everyone will do everything to jump on your wallet, and it's only up to you if you'll let them.
 

LoV

Banned
I dare any of these huge gaming websites to shit on huge developers. Oh wait, they won't because they would get shunned and no early review copies. Just look at any YouTubers that review games, they get nothing because most are harsh, truthful critics.

This, in itself, is being paid to review their games because they get special privileges.

Fuccbois, especially IGN.
 

hunthunt

Banned
According to some all you need to get 96 in Metacritic is push a liberal agenda and have a cinematic game.

I wonder what the hell is waiting Microsoft, Ubiaoft, Acrivision and EA to get their GOTYs 96 megahits, most of them have more money than Sony.
 
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zeorhymer

Member
There was already 2.5k 5-star reviews before the game even came out. Of course it's going to be 10/10 material.
 
According to some all you need to get 96 in Metacritic is push a liberal agenda and have a cinematic game.

I wonder what the hell is waiting Microsoft, Ubiaoft, Acrivision and EA to get their GOTYs 96 megahits, most of them have more money than Sony.
Only reason I loved the first one was all that gay agenda and those cutscenes.
 

kuncol02

Banned
I think it's less that the publisher itself yeets you out and more that a lot of journalists want scoops with the individual directors and creators, and are afraid to not pay lipservice. Just try to watch the last couple of high profile Sony reviews on KindaFunny and how much Greg Miller and Co. are absolutely babbling about nonsense just to make it sound like they like the game they're describing, while looking like they couldn't care less for it (God of War).
I feel like there are games that people are afraid to say bad thing about. Like for example new God of War. Everyone say that's best game ever, but list of things I don't like in it is probably longer than list of things I don't like in ReCore or Lords of the Fallen. GoW makes me physically ill and not one journalist have that problem? After all that talk about why Cyberpunk being FPP only is bad thing because people will not be able to play it not one journalist had problem with that terrible camera in GoW?
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
People throwing out conspiracy theories reminds me of the people who still think the NBA draft is rigged.

When a PlayStation title gets a great review, journalist are going to be accused of getting paid by Sony.

When an Xbox game gets a bad review, it's all media bias.

How come more Xbox games don't score in the high 80s or 90s? Why do journalist keep receiving review copies? Why didn't GT Sport, Driveclub, The Order 1886, Knack 1, Knack 2, Days Gone and all of their third party exclusive deals such as Street Fighter V receive better scores.

But I think people see right through the BS. They think every good score is shilling, but all the bad reviews are legitimate.
 

Valentino

Member
I feel like there are games that people are afraid to say bad thing about. Like for example new God of War. Everyone say that's best game ever, but list of things I don't like in it is probably longer than list of things I don't like in ReCore or Lords of the Fallen. GoW makes me physically ill and not one journalist have that problem? After all that talk about why Cyberpunk being FPP only is bad thing because people will not be able to play it not one journalist had problem with that terrible camera in GoW?

What were the problems? GoW made me sick too. But that was just motion sickness :messenger_downcast_sweat:
People who think it's the 'best game ever' maybe have the same problems with it as you do, but maybe the pros massively outweighed the cons? I don't think anyone is afraid. Do you mean actual fear? I mean, you are one person out of a billion. If you don't like it then how on earth did reviewers like it? Is that what your meaning to say? Did not a single reviewer mark it bad?
 

kuncol02

Banned
What were the problems? GoW made me sick too. But that was just motion sickness :messenger_downcast_sweat:
People who think it's the 'best game ever' maybe have the same problems with it as you do, but maybe the pros massively outweighed the cons? I don't think anyone is afraid. Do you mean actual fear? I mean, you are one person out of a billion. If you don't like it then how on earth did reviewers like it? Is that what your meaning to say? Did not a single reviewer mark it bad?
Pretty much this:


In my opinion most of problems of that game came from terrible camera (IMO terrible fight system, motion sickness) and Santa Monica decision to make best looking game of all time at all cost for which they made lot of compromises with slow game pace, all loading corridors, loading climbing, loading boats, loading portals etc. I feel that even camera was chosen to help achieve that goal of "best looking game ever". Closer to player camera allows to show more details on character model and smaller FOV means less environment you have to render. They were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
 

Valentino

Member
Pretty much this:


In my opinion most of problems of that game came from terrible camera (IMO terrible fight system, motion sickness) and Santa Monica decision to make best looking game of all time at all cost for which they made lot of compromises with slow game pace, all loading corridors, loading climbing, loading boats, loading portals etc. I feel that even camera was chosen to help achieve that goal of "best looking game ever". Closer to player camera allows to show more details on character model and smaller FOV means less environment you have to render. They were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.


Ohhhhhh I get ya. I mean I whole heartedly disagree, but I see how it could be irksome. I thought the GoW franchise was renounced for being best looking on all systems or of each generation. So I can see why it was a strong pillar to the game. But I didn't think anything suffered for it. I think everything was on the same level. Graphics, mechanics, combat. I think the camera being close to the player was just inspiration from The Last of Us? Don't quote me on that but it has a specific feel. But on a whole I think it was all as a package enjoyed. If the camera was not very good, that in no way would stop it being someone's best game of all time.

It's like when people need to point out "no game is perfect" as if we didn't already know that sentiment. If a game gets 10/10 there will always be another person to say they didn't like something so how can it possibly get a 10/10. So I wonder what point there is in having the number 10 as a goal. A game can have a few texture pop ins and still be a perfect game to someone because of the experience. I think 10/10 scores are looked at too iniquitously like "no......that can't be possible. Nothing is perffffecttttttttt :lollipop_flores:"
 
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Nobody actually believes that reviews are paid for.

The problem is that early copies come with lists of things you can and can't do. If you don't follow them, you never get early copies again. Ergo, the review isn't 100% faithful through fear of never geting another review copy in the future.

I know people who have had this happen to them in the film industry. You don't get invited back to early screenings if you aren't a good boy.
Hell, there doesn't even need to be an actual list. The publisher can say "go wild", give you carte blanche, and if you speak your mind and trash the game you still run the risk of them just deciding not to send you early copies in the future. The end result of this is that, inevitably, reviewers who get review copies are those who are biased and afraid to speak their mind because they rely on early copies to drive maximum traffic to their site / video / whatever so they can get paid.
 
It's not a Sony or PS thing, it's a "big hyped game" thing.
Remember when tons of people (here on Gaf too) had a mental breakdown when Jim Sterling gave Breath of the Wild a 7?. I don't particularly like the dude but the reviews seemed pretty fair IMO
Well that guy gave hzd a higher score and botw 7. because of reasons. It's over 2 years now and I really don't know his reasoning, but afaik there was something controversial about Nintendo or the game, that he decided to "punish" them because of it. Not that botw is the best zelda game ever, or that hzd is a weak game (didn't even play it) . But it's botw > hzd, just because of the stuff you can do in botw.
 

oagboghi2

Member
According to some all you need to get 96 in Metacritic is push a liberal agenda and have a cinematic game.

I wonder what the hell is waiting Microsoft, Ubiaoft, Acrivision and EA to get their GOTYs 96 megahits, most of them have more money than Sony.
So far this year that has been proven to be accurate
 

Fbh

Member
Well that guy gave hzd a higher score and botw 7. because of reasons. It's over 2 years now and I really don't know his reasoning, but afaik there was something controversial about Nintendo or the game, that he decided to "punish" them because of it. Not that botw is the best zelda game ever, or that hzd is a weak game (didn't even play it) . But it's botw > hzd, just because of the stuff you can do in botw.

Come on, Jim has had rants against every major publisher, it's his whole gimmick.
You also can't go treating BotW > HZD as some universal truth and accusing everyone that liked Horizon better of having some anti Nintendo agenda. You don't even have to look outside of GAF, a lot of people here loved BotW but there's also plenty that didn't.

Having played both I do like BotW better overall but I still found Horizon to be a great game with plenty of areas in which it surpasses BotW (Story, Combat, Side Content, Visuals, etc). I don't think it's at all crazy that some people just liked Horizon better.
 
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The Alien

Banned
They don't get straight up bribes.

But we'd be kidding ourselves to think that Sony (Or Xbox for that matter) doesn't pressure reviewers into giving their games better scores.
The primary form of revenue ilfor video game websites is advertising.

The companies buying ads on these websites are video game companies (Sony, XBox, EA, etc.).

They dont need to cut a separate check, they can just withdraw any advertising...or fire "ga es journalists" that speak poorly about their games.

 
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