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Sony Q3: Game Operating Income $53M (PS3/PS2 15.6M in 2012)
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Neither are really in better shape than before. In fact Sharp are in worse shape, they haven't managed to refinance their debt and they also haven't shown profitability outside of one of FX gains.
Panasonic have also not shown the ability to profit from normal operation. It will be a while before either of these two companies are considered to be in good shape.
For all of Sony's problems, they still have pretty solid media and finance divisions at the ready to bail them out or dispose of for a big cash gain.
$54m operating profit for the game division. $534m operating profit for the whole company. The thread title is fine, since this is a gaming forum.
MikeE21286
Member
So looks like ps3 and 360 are pretty close then.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Game is 53M, Sony is 534M.
MikeE21286
Member
This
Neck and neck. The PS3 should overtake the 360 by the end of this year I say. Od course at this point it's pretty meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things although you can bet Sony will do a bit of chest beating over it.
That doesn't seem like very much at all. It's the cost of one of their teams for five years, so it can't support their whole internal game development.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that quarter included holiday sales, which make or break the whole year basically. If you are having trouble reaching profit in the busiest season of the year, that can't be good considering the other three quarters.
grimshawish
Banned
Depends how the generational transition goes.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Probably the quarter after next.
At least for the next two quarters there won't be any arguing about PS2 shipments being included.
Zomg what are your thoughts on the performance of Sony Mobile? If I remember correctly 8.9 million units sold isn't a really high increase over last year, which is disappointing considering the T launch.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
There is probably quite a lot of PS4 R&D loaded up in there which will have depressed margins. That will hold true for the next couple of quarters as well.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
you would be too.
lol their portable sales and forecast. They probably shipped enough PSP and Vita last quarter to last until July of this year.
Everything is selling less.
PS2 is pretty much dead. The PSP is selling a way less. PS3 is selling less.
Vita is a disaster. Even if they were making a profit on each unit sold at $250, the holiday deals in the West were sold far below the suggested price, resulting in low revenue and possibly losses.
And obviously the PS4 R&D. Although, the worst may yet to come: The same quarter in 2005 (Oct-Dec), the operating income for the game business 68 billion yen. The PS3 gigantic losses started in the next quarter (Jan-Mar 2006), with -61 billion yen.
Everything is selling less.
PS2 is pretty much dead. The PSP is selling a way less. PS3 is selling less.
Vita is a disaster. Even if they were making a profit on each unit sold at $250, the holiday deals in the West were sold far below the suggested price, resulting in low revenue and possibly losses.
And obviously the PS4 R&D. Although, the worst may yet to come: The same quarter in 2005 (Oct-Dec), the operating income for the game business 68 billion yen. The PS3 gigantic losses started in the next quarter (Jan-Mar 2006), with -61 billion yen.
I said end of the year to be on the safe side, but as you said they should do it sooner. And yes, they will make sure to include the PS3 numbers by themselves. Which is funny because when the PS3 was released people were very confident that the PS3 would leave the 360 in the dust within a year of two, we are now 7 years into the PS3 and it's just beginning to do that.
Emmm no the fact they made a profit means that they had all their expenses covered and then some. It'a a return on what has been already expended, it's not much at all indeed though, basically they're at break even point.
But game division is holding up pretty well considering that R&D expenses for PS4 are going up, Vita isn't contributing to the bottom line like they expected, PSP is almost dead, first party PS3 lineup for the quarter was terribly weak and made of bombas like All Stars Battle Royale.
Btw has it been explained why the whole group had a robust operative profit and yet it ended with a net loss? What are they banking on to still post a profit for the whole FY?
They're going to get money back because of yen conversion? Assets sold? Or some other magical financial stuff?
MikeE21286
Member
I wonder where/when the R&D for PS4 goes/went...?
zomgbbqftw
Banned
It's decent enough. The T was not a desirable device in the face of iPhone 5, GS3 and the Note 2. The Z was the real Bond phone and Sony were too lttp. It's still a solid sales increase from ~6m for the same Q last year. Also, the division includes Vaio, which Sony have mentioned is responsible for the losses,
"This was due to an increase in sales of mobile phones primarily resulting from higher average selling prices, reflecting a product portfolio shift to smartphones from feature phones, and higher unit sales of smartphones, being partially offset by significantly lower sales of PCs."
Alone, I think the smartphones are now profitable, but lumped in with Vaio the division is struggling. That's partially down to Windows 8 as well which has pretty much killed all OEMs. Sony should start looking at Chromebooks to combat the downturn in Windows 8.
EGO. You have to remember this is the company who once said Next gen. starts when they say so. LOL. Thats whats bothers me - some of that horseshit way of thinking is still there within Sony,its why they won't fess up and drop the b.s. Just release real PS3 numbers and stop playing this charade. Its like that line from that movie 'Whitemen can't jump'. Where Woody Harrelson tells Wesley Snipes 'You worry more about looking good than winning the damn game.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
PS4 won't have the same losses associated with it. There is literally no custom silicon going into it. Late in 2005 Stringer forced Ken to take on the full liabilities of the STI partnership within the game division which lead to those losses. That was the first move by Stringer to force Ken out of the company. I'm pretty sure at that point Stringer (and Kaz, his protégé) knew that PS3 was in trouble, he just wanted to ensure Ken got the blame and not the electronics division, which at the time was not in such poor shape.
Cheers, I would have have thought that the tie in with Bond would result in the T alone selling a good 2 million units since it's launch, but I doubt that's the case. I think the Mobile division is profitable as well. Vaio's are worrying to be honest. Microsoft fucked up big time with Win 8.
It's good to see Sony finally actually trying with Android Tablets too, because that's a market that can grow, although they are a bit lttp there too. Chromebooks could be interesting too.
Looking at the Vita sales, is Sony likely to drastically respond like Nintendo with 3DS or Sony itself with Playstation 3-> PS3 rebranding, or would they be ok with the sales?
HoodWinked
Member
its funny how sony makes the majority of their money from selling health insurance in the phillipines and spiderman movies.
2013 is going to be a very bad year for them, super high investment cost for ps4, no spiderman movie.
2013 is going to be a very bad year for them, super high investment cost for ps4, no spiderman movie.
It's a good thing they did diversify, because if they didn't they would be in a lot more trouble.
OK? Not sure what LTD has to do with my point. Maybe it's meant to comfort the 360-wins-holidays myth-propagators?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Don't think 2013 will be that bad when it comes to the game division .
They have games that could sell good and PS4 not going cost or lose a good amount of money unless something really goes wrong .
10% higher revenues Q vs Q despite lower sales of Vaio.
Their mobile, image sensors and single lens cameras are probably only real growth factor until PS4 hits (in electronics).
Q4 will be telling for mobile, as Z hits many markets at that point and it is pretty expensive phone.
are the FX gains one of? some of it is partially possible but in the end, most of them are there to stay... their products simply sell for more money now overseas and bring them revenues that right now they are not booking.
Well you cant say that for a fact. In my experience, when companies branch out and expand, they have a habit of taking their eye of their "bread & butter" money. Sony are a good example of that because as soon as they started to diversify, their tech divisions started to lose ground.
Sometimes its better to concentrate fully on what you know than get sidetracked chasing even more money
PS4 probably won't cost the same as the PS3, yes, but that was not my point. I just said the biggest costs for PS4 may yet to come. Or that the costs associated with the PS4 last quarter may be pocket change compared to what they'll spend when they actually start the hardware production.
As for what losses they'll post, considering the game business is so weak right now, compared to the PS3 launch when PSP and PS2 were selling well, I wouldn't be surprised if they did end up being very bad despite the PS4 costing less than the PS3 (although certainly not 50 billion yen per quarter bad).
Interfectum
Member
is there a Q&A?
Hard to say really. It's not necessarily about custom silicon either. The controller, BC, and Gaikai are still up in the air.
On a separate point, Vita shows that they won't be going wild with prices. Consoles have to affordable to gain traction. There is a price ceiling on consoles. That much has been proven by the ps3.
Edit: Do we know how much money PSN+ is making them? That has added a huge amount of 'free money' really. Giving away old games is hardly costing them anything, and the infrastructure already exists.
I'm surprised that no one called them out on this combined unit bullshit. Guess they're afraid to bite the hand that feeds them, but if gaming is important to Sony then investors ought to know the real situation with the new gen machines.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Sony had to invest a lot of money in Cell manufacturing in 2005/6, they won't have to do that this time around since they will farm it all out to Toshiba and Global Foundries. I think the biggest cost will be game development and other software costs. Hardware manufacturing probably won't be done in Sony's own factories, it will probably be farmed out to someone like Hon Hai which, again, won't have the same upfront costs as PS3 production.
Remember for PS3 Sony had to source expensive blue violet laser diodes from Nichia, they had to pay for Cell manufacturing, they had to overpay for RSX, they had to overpay for XDR, none of these will be an issue for PS4.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I'm sure he meant overall.
When the CEO makes it sound like he might resign in a year if a certain profit isn't made... things can't be too good.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Nintendo posted a profit last quarter. 3DS rebound is well documented, even if it isn't managing to hit their lofty western projections it's future is cemented as viable (unlike Vita). The big worry now is over Wii U.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
It depends on what region you live in if this matters or not. If you are posting from the US it means nothing, if you are posting from PAL it means little and we don't have many folks posting from Japan.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Impressive that the game division has $53 million in profit even though PS3 dales are down, R&D for Orbis, and Vita not selling well. Profit margin on the new slim is really high apparently.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
It should be considering it's made out of twigs, cardboard and duct tape.
pharmboy044
Member
Any info regarding what type of revenue PSN is generating for Sony?
Nintendo posted an operating loss. Nintendo is losing money selling video games. And I know you know this, because we've discussed it to death. Nintendo's "profit" last quarter was entirely due to restating the value of their dollar- and euro-denominated accounts.
Why does it matter to people in Japan?
gamergirly
Member
They must have a hell of a lineup to be expecting 1 billion yen profit next fiscal. Also, the 3DS is looking to have a solid schedule in the West this year unlike last year where most big releases were in Japan
It is.
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