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Sony REALLY needs to implement folders on PS4, this is a pain

Massa said:
Well, actually, yes it is. People tend to dismiss design as a trivial thing but it's far from that, if you want to have a good design that is.

The PS4 UI is based on prioritizing your most recently used apps, and I'd say that works pretty well for the vast majority of use cases. Adding folders and still fitting with that paradigm is not trivial.
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Yes, it would mess with it, though could be done with last time of item launched from the folder. Or maybe pin folders to the left.

Or alternatively allow folders in the library so you can group apps there. Then it won't affect the most recently used ordering at all.
 
Saint of Killers said:
Please be genuine.
Click to expand...

It is genuine? Did I not come across that way? I honestly hate the way they organise stuff on both platforms. Especially since you have to scroll all the way to the right on PS4 to access your full library. They also still keep betas and demos in there which is real dumb. Xbone just launched the NXOE and it's still garbage.

FWIW, I'm not really talking about folders just about usability overall. Both platforms are terrible user experiences from a UI standpoint. I don't think anyone can disagree there.
 
Massa said:
Well, actually, yes it is. People tend to dismiss design as a trivial thing but it's far from that, if you want to have a good design that is.

The PS4 UI is based on prioritizing your most recently used apps, and I'd say that works pretty well for the vast majority of use cases. Adding folders and still fitting with that paradigm is not trivial.
Click to expand...



That paradigm sucks shit and falls apart as soon as you start accumulating games. Even casuals who have PS+ are probably overloaded by now.
 
The lack of folders is the single issue that has made me more and more disillusioned with the PS4 over time. Drives me absolutely fucking bananas.

I don't understand how they fucked up the PS4's UI so much. The Vita and Wii U are so much more enjoyable to use purely because you can put your games where you want them and thus organise what you are to play and when.

fantastic_planet said:
That paradigm sucks shit and falls apart as soon as you start accumulating games. Even casuals who have PS+ are probably overloaded by now.
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I had completely forgotten I owned Don't Starve as it had somehow made its way to the bottom of the 160 games in my library. I was like 'Oh shit, I'd actually like to play that.' That massive list of hundreds of games in big chunky blue boxes is such a shit show. I forgot I was halfway through Outlast because it got bumped off my recently played list on the main bar.
 
Yea, I wouldn't worry as much about adding folders if I could filter the library more so that it only shows games I currently have installed.

I hate that it shows everything ever.
 
Brainiac 8 said:
Yea, I wouldn't worry as much about adding folders if I could filter the library more so that it only shows games I currently have installed.

I hate that it shows everything ever.
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There's like 20 uninstalled demos at the bottom of my library. Why? Why do they need to be there? I'll never use them again. Many of those games I bought the full version, and yet the old uninstalled demo sits right there, sometimes next to the real thing. The entire system feels like it has no thought put into it.

I genuinely thought when I bought the PS4 on launch day that all the niggles would be ironed out within 6 months. A year, max. The fact that we're two years in and it still hasn't happened is really mindboggling to me.
 
Griss said:
There's like 20 uninstalled demos at the bottom of my library. Why? Why do they need to be there? I'll never use them again. Many of those games I bought the full version, and yet the old uninstalled demo sits right there, sometimes next to the real thing. The entire system feels like it has no thought put into it.

I genuinely thought when I bought the PS4 on launch day that all the niggles would be ironed out within 6 months. A year, max. The fact that we're two years in and it still hasn't happened is really mindboggling to me.
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That definitely needs more work.

I would add to the Library the filters:

Demos
Betas
Online Games

and a Pin function for the main bar
 
Nerfgun said:
people insist on folders as if it were an obvious answer but I'm not so sure.

there seems to be this almost maniacal impulse amongst a certain generation to retain perfect control over their experience; before they were implemented, lack of custom background graphics drove some users mental around here. like just frothing about it. and it had fuck all to do with functionality.

Now, I'd like to see them add filters for sure. the Library can get big. but let's not pretend it's some Lewis & Clark type journey to go find your old copy of Journey. it's scrolling through a grid. like Steam. or you could always just say the name of the game if you have the camera. and once you've done that once, it moves to the front.

do people just want to admire their vast library in emoji-labeled folders or.. like what is it? they constantly jump between more than 15 different games?

protestations saying "this is basic", I would love to know what use case they are visualizing. I really would. after studying user interactions for 20 years I am still fucking gob smacked sometimes.
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Pretty much how I feel, don't see how they would fit into the current UI.

Also we all know that the download list is the big problem.
 
PS4 UI is pretty annoying, I've always assumed the folder option was hidden somewhere and I was just missing it.

Haaaate how it leaves all my games out there on the main menu. Discs that aren't in the system, downloads, random applications, even PS+ games I don't have access to (I think those are still on there). Based on this thread I guess there really is no way to sort them then... :(
topplehat said:
Pretty much how I feel, don't see how they would fit into the current UI.

Also we all know that the download list is the big problem.
Click to expand...
The simplest case I can imagine for it:
Pressing the options button on the main bar gives two new options: Create new folder and Move to folder.
Choosing Create new folder asks for a name and then adds a square to the bar.
Choosing Move to folder gives you a list of folders, you choose one, and the square you currently had selected moves to that folder.

I know a lot more would have to go into the design of it, on the front and back ends. But the basic use case isn't complicated or difficult to imagine in the UI.

I just want to get rid of everything on my main menu that isn't the icon for one of my physical games. Would be fine if they would just let me banish things to the library.
 
Nerfgun said:
PS3 had an Album metatag you could abuse, yes ;)

Ok, so you'd have like an RPG folder, a Shooter folder, whatever. So you just want to see your games in custom groupings together. Why? Does your thought process decide genre, then game? I mean that's an understandable presentational aspect. I get it. You want to organize them just how you like. But does it get you to a game any faster? And do you actually - be honest -switch between that many games within a given week?

What I'm getting at is, I agree that a folder can help a user "get back" to an old thing faster than the current system. But I would counter that the custom folder itself really adds nothing for functionality that wasn't there before. I would be more inclined to say, Sony, fix the fucking Download list. How about a Calendar view? Filters, are what are needed. Custom folders... personally I think they are a bit of a trifle.

That "Netflix" folder? That folder SUCKS. It fucks up my newer PS4-owning friends. They call me up and say "where is Netflix, you said this thing has Netflix!" and I need to tell them that the App looking tile called Video is actually a special folder, within which Netflix resides, and never leaves, and doesn't behave like any other app, some of which DO sit on the top level bar (Media Player).


See above

Also the iPhone/3DS style menu is designed for touch/stylus, it's not good for a TV and a controller.

Also think about the support issues that custom folders cause when someone calls up Sony and says I can't find my game. "Where did you put it" "WELL it's supposed to be in a folder with a cat head and a little skull but I can't find it now..."

For these reasons I want custom filters, but I don't think perfectly customizable folders is a great idea. I know people do weird shit with their phones like perfectly blank desktops and docks with 4 icons each containing 9 more micro icons and I think, wtf. And they love it!
Click to expand...

Grouping by genre is just one example of how to use folders. And it's not just about starting a specific game faster, but also about discovery. If I feel like playing some shooter, but I'm not sure which one, I can browse my "Shooter" folder.

On my Vita, I also use a "New" folder for new games I haven't yet played (usually PS+ games). Currently, my most-played games all fit on the first page of the homescreen, but if I ever run out of space, I'm gonna add a "Favorites" folder.

Yet another example is a "Trash" folder for things you don't want to see but you can't delete or hide for some reason. Every iOS user has one of them for Apple's apps. On the PS4, you can't hide items in your library, so folders could help with that, too.

As you said, advanced sorting and filtering features are an alternative solution, but that's not perfect either. Sure, I could potentially group my library by genre and select "Shooter" to see all my shooters without a need for custom folders, but what if I consider one my shooters an action game instead?

Having empty desktops or homescreens is not weird at all. Proper organization is satisfying. I keep my physical desk clean, too. All my things are in the drawers they're supposed to be in.
 
Easy solution for Sony based on their current design:
Have the 5 most recently used games and apps show first (sort of like it is now), then the Library folder. In the Library folder, have the option for useful sorting options (genre, most recently played, etc.) and the ability to create folders there.
 
Ambitious said:
Grouping by genre is just one example of how to use folders. And it's not just about starting a specific game faster, but also about discovery. If I feel like playing some shooter, but I'm not sure which one, I can browse my "Shooter" folder.

On my Vita, I also use a "New" folder for new games I haven't yet played (usually PS+ games). Currently, my most-played games all fit on the first page of the homescreen, but if I ever run out of space, I'm gonna add a "Favorites" folder.

Yet another example is a "Trash" folder for things you don't want to see but you can't delete or hide for some reason. Every iOS user has one of them for Apple's apps. On the PS4, you can't hide items in your library, so folders could help with that, too.

As you said, advanced sorting and filtering features are an alternative solution, but that's not perfect either. Sure, I could potentially group my library by genre and select "Shooter" to see all my shooters without a need for custom folders, but what if I consider one my shooters an action game instead?

Having empty desktops or homescreens is not weird at all. Proper organization is satisfying. I keep my physical desk clean, too. All my things are in the drawers they're supposed to be in.
Click to expand...

I still think filters are a better idea. I realize it may seem alien to argue "against functionality" but to add all the code for re-arranging and organizing icons just for the sake of predilection... it's nice but it doesn't really give you anything besides good feels.

The reason I dislike the current "custom folder" (the Video one) is that it breaks the whole paradigm of the 3 layers in the PS4 UI. Upper deck being system functions, middle deck being games and apps, and lower deck being a drill-down for more information about whatever is selected on the middle deck. You push Down on any App or Game to see more info about it, UNLESS it is a special folder, where it behaves differently? That's inconsistent.

I think if Sony added a Genre tag that could be assigned by the user, and moved the Library all the way to the left, let you tree out from that based on those tags, would solve the problem. The main bar is ok, it's the Library that needs some more views.

thiscoldblack said:
Have the 5 most recently used games and apps show first (sort of like it is now), then the Library folder. In the Library folder, have the option for useful sorting options (genre, most recently played, etc.) and the ability to create folders there.
Click to expand...
Yes. beat me to it ;) Or even set the bar limit to 5, 10, 15, or All. Library being all the way to the right is burying the functionality.
 
NinjaBoiX said:
No, I don't have a clue, but on the face of it I can't see it being that difficult. Something to do with executables or some shit?

It's grouping games together in a few different places rather than one place, it doesn't exactly sound like rocket science.
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Someone mentioned earlier about TV and Video being a folder and they are right. The issue I see is that those apps don't have hub pages and there would be no easy way to so that info. I'm not saying f think it's a bad idea but that could be justification.

Personally I don't think "folder" should be the right term. Thru should just do a 2nd layer deep "my games link" "my demos" etc that just replaced the line of most used games with a line of stuff of your choice with some sort of transition effect or something and a back button.
 
I would truly appreciate if they had folders in the next update but don't forget you can say the name of the game you want to play through the mic. A lot of people forget this feature exists. Of course if you have so many games that you forget what you have, then folders would greatly help by sorting them out into genres.
 
I don't think folders are the answer. The 'Library' section needs to be re-designed. Folder's would help, but not fix it completely. They need to separate games and apps for starters.
 
I want metatags for folders. I want to assign up to 4 or 5 different tags to any game such as developer, genre, 2d or 3d, franchise, etc. That way I can have a folder for fighters, a folder for 2d games, one for my favorite developer with varied genres, etc.

But fuck yes, we need the ability to organize.

Also, why the hell are Amazon Prime and Netflix considered Games and not Apps?????????????????????????????????
 
Folders are nice.

Current system works well too, I'm just grateful that PS4 UI is very stable to not require hard resets every other hour.
 
dralla said:
I don't think folders are the answer. The 'Library' section needs to be re-designed. Folder's would help, but not fix it completely. They need to separate games and apps for starters.
Click to expand...

Actually this is the one filter that is in fact in the Library now.

Arttemis said:
Also, why the hell are Amazon Prime and Netflix considered Games and not Apps?????????????????????????????????
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I'm in Canada so no Prime, but Netflix is not treated as a Game. It is an App and it lives forever in that TV & Video folder for now.
 
This is my most needed feature. I own enough games that some just get "lost" in the library.

edit: Obviously, they are not required to meat my, admittedly, extreme use-case (2tb >100 games), but I feel its bizarre to have so much content available digitally without proper organizational options.
 
PS4 library is a mess. Folders ale heavily needed.

I'm sure they thought it was a good idea but they never bothered to have more than 5 games installed before approving it and making it official. After a few games, demos and dlc downloaded, that thing is atrocious to browser through.
 
Nerfgun said:
I still think filters are a better idea. I realize it may seem alien to argue "against functionality" but to add all the code for re-arranging and organizing icons just for the sake of predilection... it's nice but it doesn't really give you anything besides good feels.
Click to expand...

And "good feels" is not worth it in your eyes?
Nevertheless, I'd argue being able to browse games related by some commonality is an actual feature.

Nerfgun said:
I think if Sony added a Genre tag that could be assigned by the user, and moved the Library all the way to the left, let you tree out from that based on those tags, would solve the problem. The main bar is ok, it's the Library that needs some more views.
Click to expand...

Functionally, what's the difference between a customizable Genre tag and a folder? You propose a vertical list of tags, which, upon selection of a tag, displays its associated games in the list to the right.

finder_view_column_02.png
 
Nerfgun said:
I would love to know what use case they are visualizing. I really would. after studying user interactions for 20 years I am still fucking gob smacked sometimes.
Click to expand...

I could make folder called "trash" and put all the stupid TV and video service bloatware in it.
 
What the console needs (besides this) is access to the list of items you've downloaded in purchase order, like when you visit the PS3/Vita store. The thing is, this already exists. There's an exploit to get to it though Rock Band 4 and it's great, no having to go by game and search (keeping in mind that the Add-Ons section of each game is horribly imperfect, I have Ground Zeroes DLC, apparently.), no having to go through the web store and filter through all the stuff on other consoles. It's just there's no way to access it, and the store only takes you to the oft criticised library portion of the console.
 
Ambitious said:
And "good feels" is not worth it in your eyes?
Click to expand...

Sometimes it is. I think the custom backgrounds are worth it just to make people happy for instance. And like I said, I understand the presentational desire. But I am drawing a distinction between "required" functionality and "nice to have but hardly necessary" functionality.

Functionally, what's the difference between a customizable Genre tag and a folder? You propose a vertical list of tags, which, upon selection of a tag, displays its associated games in the list to the right.
Click to expand...

They would present in a similar manner but the organizing principle is different. Tags can cross multiple views; whereas folders tend to be single-view, i.e. this App lives in this folder and nowhere else. With tags you could combine views, for instance say you want to look at RPGs AND Platformers together, you can do this with tags and filters quite quickly, whereas they would forever in one custom folder and stay rigid, if it were totally customizable, unless you also made a special "RPGs and Platformers" folder.

IvorB said:
I could make folder called "trash" and put all the stupid TV and video service bloatware in it.
Click to expand...
You can do that now if you just select Games in the Library. Problem is, Demos and Betas are currently crowded in there too, and yes that should change.
 
Shift Breaker said:
What the console needs (besides this) is access to the list of items you've downloaded in purchase order, like when you visit the PS3/Vita store. The thing is, this already exists. There's an exploit to get to it though Rock Band 4 and it's great, no having to go by game and search (keeping in mind that the Add-Ons section of each game is horribly imperfect, I have Ground Zeroes DLC, apparently.), no having to go through the web store and filter through all the stuff on other consoles. It's just there's no way to access it, and the store only takes you to the oft criticised library portion of the console.
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Speaking of which, I love how they set the purchase date of all PS+ games to the current date whenever you refresh your subscription. It messes up the whole list.
 
I understand that people are upset some much begged for features haven't been implemented yet, but the way some people talk you'd think the PS4 OS is terrible.
 
7lFjO1g.jpg



what about just adding new lines under the main one?

they can work just like the main one, but broken down however you want. Or not, everyone's happy.
 
JC Lately said:
Someday I'll compile a list of the things gamers say they want that Nintendo actually does, and yet no one is buying their shit.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is very good to be honest. Tons of wasted space for empty folders, weird alignment of the icons at the bottom. And of course, designed for a stylus. I'm sure you can dpad through it but.. yeah no thanks.
 
Nerfgun said:
Sometimes it is. I think the custom backgrounds are worth it just to make people happy for instance. And like I said, I understand the presentational desire. But I am drawing a distinction between "required" functionality and "nice to have but hardly necessary" functionality.
Click to expand...

I've added another line after posting.
What do you consider "required", and why do you think only required functionality should be implemented (= the bare minimum)?

Nerfgun said:
They would present in a similar manner but the organizing principle is different. Tags can cross multiple views; whereas folders tend to be single-view, i.e. this App lives in this folder and nowhere else. With tags you could combine views, for instance say you want to look at RPGs AND Platformers together, you can do this with tags and filters quite quickly, whereas they would forever in one custom folder and stay rigid, if it were totally customizable, unless you also made a special "RPGs and Platformers" folder.
Click to expand...

All of that is true. But that's a truckload of added complexity in terms of UI. Also, I could return several of your anti-folder arguments to you. Would being able to assign multiple tags to a game really be worth the implementation effort? How much time would you save? How many users do you think would actually assign multiple tags instead of just one? What about people calling Sony's support because they can't find a game?*


* I'd say a good solution for that issue (whether you use folders or tags) is a flat list of games which displays the containing folder or assigned tags of a game when you select it. This information could be added to the Details view of the existing library.
 
I really like my PS4, but the software side of it is appalling.

- Avatars, only!!! 2 weeks ago
- Still not possible to copy psn games (psp, ps1) to vita, even after the large push for vita/ps4 remote play! I still need my PS3 for this, I mean come on...
- the messaging system is so slow it's pointless
- communities not searchable is so dumbfounding that I really don't know what they are thinking
- and then you get to PSN proper. PSN looks like a mountain of cards ready to crumble. I mean just look at the decision to use the user imputed name as the unique ID for the databases... come.the.fuck.on!! How they have to continuously build upon the mess to add features, I bet, makes the whole situation a lot more time consuming and hard to manage.

They have to invest hard in the infrastructure behind all the software front end, or else folders will be the least of their concerns!
 
Massa said:
No, the PS3 did folders. The Vita does it like people want though, and it's by far the worst UI they've done.
Click to expand...

I meant the MS ninjas, they haven't managed it yet.



Personally I'd love folders for my shooters, my racing games, sports games, RPGS, adventures etc.
I can't always decide what to play but I do usually know what type of game I want to play, folders would help there.
 
I don't know anything about intern faces or whatever, but I can tell you this would be VERY easy to implement. Sony should be ashamed of themselves for being so lazy.
 
People are anti folders? What?

A good majority of PS4 releases are DD only. It would nice to be able to organize them.
 
Ambitious said:
I've added another line after posting.
What do you consider "required", and why do you think only required functionality should be implemented (= the bare minimum)?
Click to expand...

Well in UI/UX design, it's sort of like Engineering, where the most elegant design is the one that accomplishes all functions required while not adding unnecessary complexity or cruft. When you add "all options" you get crap like the Word toolbar. It makes the experience very noisy for the user, especially first timers.

Required = can I find and run my game? I think the Recent Items approach they've taken for the main bar suits the use patterns of a great many players; i.e. they tend to play a handful of games at a time, and tend to access older stuff with much less frequency than newer stuff.

All of that is true. But that's a truckload of added complexity in terms of UI. Also, I could return several of your anti-folder arguments to you. Would being able to assign multiple tags to a game really be worth the implementation effort? How much time would you save? How many users do you think would actually assign multiple tags instead of just one? What about people calling Sony's support because they can't find a game?*

* I'd say a good solution for that issue (whether you use folders or tags) is a flat list of games which displays the containing folder or assigned tags of a game when you select it. This information could be added to the Details view of the existing library.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I wasn't clear; I didn't mean tagging a single game with multiple genres. I was thinking more like Amazon or PS Store checkbox filters next to a given results view. So I tick Platformers and I see all Platformers games in icon view to the right of the filter box. Then I can also tick RPGs or whatever to that view and have it instantly populate.
 
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