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Sony to turn PS2 in the Revolution Killer
- Thread starter VOOK
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Eyetoy will always be limited to analyze inputs by what it sees, so you're mostly stuck to either gimmicky 2d plane games or on rail 3d games, even with the wand which is just a flashlight anyway, you're limited at pointing the thing directly @ the webcam, your only options are to click some buttons to change the light's color and therefor switch its ability, but you cant combine them.
Basicly, a technology relying on visual input and then analyze whats going on and give a rough estimate at what that was supposed to be, then interpret it within the game, gives you what past eyetoy games have shown, unreliable and imprecise inputs for games that are more complex than flash games about washing or punching 2d sprites around.
The wand still limit it to its visual range and analysing capabilities, plus, how are you going to aim and shoot with just the wand?
Rev on the other hand doesnt rely on any visual sensors, all its detection is done inside the controller and sent back wirelessly to the console as clear inputs much like how controllers already work nowadays, there's no "did the user input that?" its either a clear input or nothing. Since the controller doesnt require visual range, you can manipulate the controller in any direction, think of a golf swing, eyetoy would only detect the last few seconds of your swing as the led passes over the cam, missing 95% of your swing input, it could make estimates as to how to swinged but like i said earlier, its just a guess, imprecise and most likely not very useful as a complex game input method. Rev's spatial detection of the controller like its range, axe, tilt, would pretty much be perfectly described into the game, even the tilt of the controller for different swings would play a big role, while eyetoy doesnt know any of that, it just sees a LED pass by, it cant detect the LED's tilt since its just a light, it doesnt give any more info other than roughly where it passed and how fast it did in the eyetoy's visual range.
Do i really need to go on about the difference in precision between direct input detection and guessing the input? Its like comparing the digital age with indian smoke signals
Basicly, a technology relying on visual input and then analyze whats going on and give a rough estimate at what that was supposed to be, then interpret it within the game, gives you what past eyetoy games have shown, unreliable and imprecise inputs for games that are more complex than flash games about washing or punching 2d sprites around.
The wand still limit it to its visual range and analysing capabilities, plus, how are you going to aim and shoot with just the wand?
Rev on the other hand doesnt rely on any visual sensors, all its detection is done inside the controller and sent back wirelessly to the console as clear inputs much like how controllers already work nowadays, there's no "did the user input that?" its either a clear input or nothing. Since the controller doesnt require visual range, you can manipulate the controller in any direction, think of a golf swing, eyetoy would only detect the last few seconds of your swing as the led passes over the cam, missing 95% of your swing input, it could make estimates as to how to swinged but like i said earlier, its just a guess, imprecise and most likely not very useful as a complex game input method. Rev's spatial detection of the controller like its range, axe, tilt, would pretty much be perfectly described into the game, even the tilt of the controller for different swings would play a big role, while eyetoy doesnt know any of that, it just sees a LED pass by, it cant detect the LED's tilt since its just a light, it doesnt give any more info other than roughly where it passed and how fast it did in the eyetoy's visual range.
Do i really need to go on about the difference in precision between direct input detection and guessing the input? Its like comparing the digital age with indian smoke signals
Can we drop this? There is no way Sony will try to re-sell PS2 with an extra add on to copy Nintendo and interfere with its own existing PS2 userbase and potential PS3 plans. It'd be dumb and Sony are not dumb.
They wouldn't sell many and it certainly wouldnt come close to any new console or its own existing PS2 fanbase. Waste of resources.
They wouldn't sell many and it certainly wouldnt come close to any new console or its own existing PS2 fanbase. Waste of resources.
xaosslug said:OH "!!!!!" so you've played with the Revmote controller? What's it like, man. Share!
he didnt say he had played revmote, he said he used an eyetoy. ive used one too, and it leaves alot to be desired in terms of any kind of precision control. also lots of devs and journalists have played with the revmote and have sung its praises. im personally really skeptical about the revolution, and will remain so until they show me real games, this eyetoy arguement is just stupid tho.
Why do I have a feeling this years E3 is going to be the most batshit insane gigaton mix up?
I mean not to put any faith in this insane rumour, but imagine if both Sony and Nintendo have stuff like this up their sleeves. Maybe even MS. Fisfights in the streets outside E3? Ballmer turning into the Hulk? A really big explosion when the PS3 is turned on with not enough vents?
Strap yourselves in for May people!
I mean not to put any faith in this insane rumour, but imagine if both Sony and Nintendo have stuff like this up their sleeves. Maybe even MS. Fisfights in the streets outside E3? Ballmer turning into the Hulk? A really big explosion when the PS3 is turned on with not enough vents?
Strap yourselves in for May people!
That would rock if the scene started making flash demos you could watch on your tellyaoi tsuki said:
They basically just need to make a browser with flash support though - nothing too fancy. I've been wondering if the DS version of Opera will support flash, and maybe the Revolution later. The PSP browser still doesn't support it, right?Jonnyram said:
Do you honestly believe Nintendo has more announcements as big as the remote? I don't think they have some sort of crazy 3D/hologram display and I can't think of any additional sensors that rev might use in the controller. IMO whatever secrets they have it'll be stuff like web browser on rev, details on virtual console, or maybe they'll add a microphone or something.
xaosslug said:But, AdmiralViscen did state that "Eyetoy games won't be like games for the Revo." as if there is no doubt. How can he be so sure unless he's played the games, man?
Can we at least agree that Miyamoto and company can make better games than the ones for the eyetoy? Please?
buckfutter
Member
You'd need the tech that's going into the next gen Eyetoy to emulate what the Revmote can supposedly do, as that's the one that uses IR to judge depth. And seeing as the next gen Eyetoy uses gigabit ethernet ports, I don't think the PS2 is going to be compatible.
ghostlyjoe said:
If Sony is able to emulate the functionality of the revmote (to at least some degree), it would still be well within the patents of the EyeToy.
Sony showed of somewhat similar functionality several years before the revmote even existed ... so it's not like the idea is even new anyway.
:Motorbass
Member
Wow, I didn't realize that so long after the revmote has been revealed, some people still say it is like eyetoy :lol
This is serious trolling since it can't be a statement involving logical thinking.
You always think about the wild waving promo video. What about slight tilting, twisting, pointing at the screen, 3D positioning with the revmote, and all that with physical feedback (at least rumble confirmed)? Can't do it with ET without waving your entire body. It sure can do things the revmote can't but that's the point. Get over it already!
This is serious trolling since it can't be a statement involving logical thinking.
You always think about the wild waving promo video. What about slight tilting, twisting, pointing at the screen, 3D positioning with the revmote, and all that with physical feedback (at least rumble confirmed)? Can't do it with ET without waving your entire body. It sure can do things the revmote can't but that's the point. Get over it already!
I'd actually consider buying a PS2 for $99, not because of any EyeToy-related thing but because I'd finally see the price point as justifiable.
At any rate, the notion of it being a Revolution killer is absurd just on the basis that it lacks the "virtual console" aspects and the Nintendo franchises, both of which are almost guaranteed to be among the top three driving forces behind Revolution sales. Trying to counter the Revolution controller is only taking on a third of the system's capacities.
At any rate, the notion of it being a Revolution killer is absurd just on the basis that it lacks the "virtual console" aspects and the Nintendo franchises, both of which are almost guaranteed to be among the top three driving forces behind Revolution sales. Trying to counter the Revolution controller is only taking on a third of the system's capacities.
Though, whether what VOOK posted is true or not, I'm glad Sony's not discounting their competition and any "gimmick(s)" they come up with. A Flash-enabled browser would work, but i'm thinking of something that would allow you to use Flash to poll the controller directly, for one thing.Jonnyram said:That would rock if the scene started making flash demos you could watch on your telly
And i sold my PSP months ago (kept the DS), so i wouldn't know about PSP browser Flash support. A thread entitled "i rebought a PSP and need some obscure but cool games (US or import)" will be coming in the coming months. Please look forward to it!
mambadragon
Banned
wow, that's just smart business on Sony's part.
PkunkFury
Member
PolyGone said:
A cheap webcam is already enough to do some decent image based 3D tracking. Check out the thread we had on AR using the Gizmondo to see it in action. This article suggests a device would be released alongside the eyetoy, indicating it would be more elaborate than simply tracking a sponge or a bright wand like we've seen in lots of demos.
I'm not sure what type of device would help tracking with a normal camera, though. This makes much more sense with the infra-red camera, using a device with LEDs for the camera to track. At Siggraph Sony specified they had no plans of releasing the infra-red eyetoy, but they may have just been trying to keep it under wraps. Some of the simple stuff they showed with it (like full body mo-cap) was very cool.
Ultimately, whatever they tie to the eyetoy wouldn't be as effective as the revmote for 3D precision of a single point. You'd need more than one eyetoy for that. Also, it would be an expensive solution, asking consumers to purchase a new eyetoy plus a tracking device, why not just put it on the PS3 instead at that point? And the ultimate power of the revmote involves that fact that it is bundled with the console, we all know how well peripherals tend to go over...
Anyway I doubt this is true; eyetoy has pleanty of room to expand, but new functions will have to be marketed alongside an Eyetoy 2, which would probably have a tough time selling on a console at the tail end of its lifecycle
SolidSnakex
Member
PkunkFury said:
Eyetoy 2 is suppose to be a PS3 device anyway. They demoed it at E3, the one where someone came on stage and picked up 2 glasses and poured with them.
PkunkFury
Member
SolidSnakex said:
Yeah, that's still my favorite PS3 demo
Basically because of Eyetoy 2 for PS3, I think this news is false. How do you market a new eyetoy for PS3 alongside a revmote killer eyetoy for PS2? Maybe it can work on both? still, I doubt it... And if you are just making a device that works with Eyetoy 1, it will be very different from the revmote, and not nearly as precise. It would be difficult marketing the two as comparable tech.
Plus, Sony would be selling their revo-like software to the fraction of Eyetoy owners (which are a fraction of the PS2 owners) who purchase the device. Thus it would make more sense just to package the device with Eyeytoy 2 and take advantage of the PS3 tech. Hopefully we will see some cool new PS3 Eyetoy tech at this E3
PkunkFury said:Yeah, that's still my favorite PS3 demo
Basically because of Eyetoy 2 for PS3, I think this news is false. How do you market a new eyetoy for PS3 alongside a revmote killer eyetoy for PS2? Maybe it can work on both? still, I doubt it... And if you are just making a device that works with Eyetoy 1, it will be very different from the revmote, and not nearly as precise. It would be difficult marketing the two as comparable tech.
Plus, Sony would be selling their revo-like software to the fraction of Eyetoy owners (which are a fraction of the PS2 owners) who purchase the device. Thus it would make more sense just to package the device with Eyeytoy 2 and take advantage of the PS3 tech. Hopefully we will see some cool new PS3 Eyetoy tech at this E3
exactly. can this thread by locked and thrown away now?
chinmonster
Member
Jonnyram said:
They're already dragging it on longer than necessary with God of War 2 (if the rumor is true). I do agree with you that there is no way Sony could ruin the Revolution simply by tossing on more EyeToy features that would more than likely go unnoticed in the midst of all the next-gen hype.
SolidSnakex
Member
chinmonster said:
That's what happens when you have an extremely succesful system. You don't just dump it and forget about how many people own one. I'd prefer GoW2 to be on the PS3 also (assuming that leak is real), but I understand why its on the PS2.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Will I say WOW?
PkunkFury
Member
chinmonster said:
I think re-using GOW resources for God of War 2 might be a simple reason for this. Perhaps development was well under way before the PS3 devkits arrived and reformatting things will be too much of an issue. PS2 has a huge user base anyway and won't PS3 be backwards compatible?
I'm certain the PS2 will have a long and healthy life well into next gen, much like the PS1 did. It will most likely see many more releases, and won't need some crazy new interface tech to hold interest.
Some truth to this rumor, Revolution may end up competing more with PS2 than it does with the othe next-gen consoles, simply because the price points could be closer. Nintendo will be targeting budget gamers, but budget gamers may grab a $120 PS2 instead :lol
soundwave05
Member
The problem with this may be that there's already 100 million PS2 owners. So as a developer, if Sony now includes a Revmote type controller + EyeToy combo, do you make a game for that or do you try to make a game for other 100 million users?
But it is an interesting proposition. I'm assuming Sony would not use just the Eye Toy as a sensor, but would also have a full on Revmote type controller included.
But it is an interesting proposition. I'm assuming Sony would not use just the Eye Toy as a sensor, but would also have a full on Revmote type controller included.
deadhorse32
Bad Art ™
Sony is not stupid. PSone was still selling even after PS2 release. They know they should capitalize on the userbase with "easy" sequels.
But I don't see Sony going "Rev killer" with the PS2, I don't see them supporting 2 home consoles & a handheld.
But I don't see Sony going "Rev killer" with the PS2, I don't see them supporting 2 home consoles & a handheld.
SolidSnakex
Member
Gee said:
Sony only made 1 of those games.
Red Blaster
Member
PolyGone said:
shit mang you dumb
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