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[Hollywood Hitman]

I think for me it's growing up with games like Wizardry, a series that could be ridiculously brutal in comparison, souls is a walk in the park.

I'm not saying you can play them blind folded, and that they don't have areas where you'll definitely die. But it's fair because when you learn it you start thinking damn that wasn't bad at all and it gets exciting to then see what's up ahead.

It's a fair game, the game isn't just brutal just to be brutal with no way around. That's sort of my point.

 

[Petrae]

What's the misconception here? The games are hard. That's a fact. They are also rewarding, but not everyone wants to go through difficult games.

With my free time being so limited, and with so many games to choose from, I don't really want to waste that free time on super-difficult games that I know I don't have the patience for. They may indeed be rewarding, but I have no desire to get frustrated in order to reap the reward. If I want to be frustrated, I can find ways to do that without spending more money out of pocket.

Difficult games aren't bad games by any means. They just aren't for me.

 

[Black_Red]

I'm not going to play the "NO YOU" game with you. If you can't understand why the game is one difficulty then I just feel sorry for you. If you want easy mode, watch the youtube videos. You're not accomplishing anything on easy mode to begin with. Stay mad or get mad or call people names but it doesn't change how stupid the idea of an easy mode is for a Souls game.

I agreed with this until this thread where people were against having an option to skip credits and told other people that they shouldnt play a game if they didn't like that. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1284704&page=14

Now I understand how people who think "I like the game the way it is, so it shouldn't have an option to play it another way " are the dicks.
If the game had an easy mode, with 50% more damage and 50% more heatlh and blocked from online would that be bad for your gaming experience?

 

[SpecialAgentDaleCooper]

I'm not going to play the "NO YOU" game with you. If you can't understand why the game is one difficulty then I just feel sorry for you. If you want easy mode, watch the youtube videos. You're not accomplishing anything on easy mode to begin with. Stay mad or get mad or call people names but it doesn't change how stupid the idea of an easy mode is for a Souls game.

Calmer than you, dude.

In no way shape or form would Dark Souls be hurt/ruined by a difficulty setting. Its just silly to think that people could only enjoy the game the same way you did for the same reasons and nothing else could count. Nor would anyone else getting to experience the things that actually make game great, (level design, lore, creature design, combat) at an easier difficulty take away from your achievement having played it at the standard. In no way would having the option prevent anyone from not using it and playing at the default level. You're just coming off as an angry gatekeeper.

 

[Linkark07]

Actually, no. If I tell somebody how great a Souls game is and they tell me that, I only shrug and say: "your loss", and then continue with my life.

 

[peronmls]

No mate that's not the case.

I played Dark Souls and just found it really really boring, not difficult, just tedious.

Older games were harder that's today sure, but not the way Dark Souls is designed.

That's what I said as I was complaining about it to a friend who recommended it to me. Now it's my second favorite series.

 

[Randam]

Just summon for everything. It's built into the game.

Qft.
The games already have an "easy mode" build into them.

 

[brinstar]

Just started playing my first Souls game: Dark Souls (I had it downloaded though Games with Gold + It's back compat). I've played Lords of the Fallen before, so I'm used to the difficulty. But when it comes to Dark Souls.. it's not the difficulty, at least to me, it's the lack of direction. I'm at the part where the big raven took me from the undead asylum and dropped me off in a new area. I can go down but also up, I'm not sure if I'll miss something by first exploring the underground compared to what's above. The game doesn't tell you anything. Is it the game design? Maybe, but I don't appreciate it.

Talk to the crestfallen NPC enough times in the hub area and he pretty clearly lays out where to go/what to do.

 

[Skii]

It frustrates me greatly. The game isn't inherently difficult at all. All it asks from the player is just to use basic critical thinking to approach any problem in this game. It's not asking for mechanical skill at all like other action games. It's asking you to learn from your mistakes so you can move forward. A game like this wouldn't even be considered remotely difficult during the PS2 era.

It's only because games of recent have set the bar so low, they ask so little from the player that the one time a game acknowledges that you have a brain, those who don't want to engage it simply shut themselves off from one of the most revolutionary experiences in gaming.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I was sure the difficulty was overrated and I had been having a relatively easy time getting through Dark Souls 1, then I got to

Spoiler

Seath and The Four Kings

. Can't beat either of them, feel stuck, kinda of just gave up. I think I am just too impatient and now is the time where it's finally effecting me, haha.

 

[Novocaine]

Ninja Gaiden on the OG xbox was harder than DS.

I'll take your word for it. It's been a long while since I played it on OG Xbox, and I sucked at it. Never got past the tank. It would be interesting to revisit now I'm a little better at how I approach games.

Nioh is legit 10x harder than any soulsborne

Yeah the beta was hard, and IMO not in a fun way.

 

[Primethius]

Not at all because it's not a misconception. The Souls games are difficult. And that difficulty is even more problematic for some given the current state of gaming vs. asking someone to be patient.

They are not a series for everyone and I don't expect it to be (nor everyone to enjoy them).

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Calmer than you, dude.

In no way shape or form would Dark Souls be hurt/ruined by a difficulty setting. Its just silly to think that people could only enjoy the game the same way you did for the same reasons and nothing else could count. Nor would anyone else getting to experience the things that actually make game great, (level design, lore, creature design, combat) at an easier difficulty take away from your achievement having played it at the standard. In no way would having the option prevent anyone from not using it and playing at the default level. You're just coming off as an angry gatekeeper.

This is what I don't understand. It's almost like those who want the challenge couldn't trust themselves not to drop the difficulty, so they want it kept at a set level.

The argument of "It's supposed to be challenging" is meaningless, as different people find different levels of gaming hard. There are older players whose reactions may be slower, and disabled gamers who may be hampered slightly, but the things they overcome to beat such a game on an easier difficulty will be no less challenging than what others accomplish.

 

[brinstar]

It does frustrate me when I see the difficulty overexaggerated to the point where people don't want to try the games at all assuming they're some kind of I Wanna Be The Guy-type stuff.

That's not to say the games aren't difficult in their own right. But some of the marketing and parts of the fanbase can be downright obnoxious about it.

 

[rackham]

Calmer than you, dude.

In no way shape or form would Dark Souls be hurt/ruined by a difficulty setting. Its just silly to think that people could only enjoy the game the same way you did for the same reasons and nothing else could count. Nor would anyone else getting to experience the things that actually make game great, (level design, lore, creature design, combat) at an easier difficulty take away from your achievement having played it at the standard. In no way would having the option prevent anyone from not using it and playing at the default level. You're just coming off as an angry gatekeeper.

Calmer than me? Calling people names like "elitist' or "angry gatekeeper" or telling them to "calm down" is a shit counter argument.

You can experience level design, lore etc. with youtube videos. There's nothing that stops you from doing that.

If you don't understand the huge changes to the atmosphere of the game, the community discussions and everything else that comes with having 1 difficulty, you shouldn't be insulting people.

 

[Anura]

I was sure the difficulty was overrated and I had been having a relatively easy time getting through Dark Souls 1, then I got to

Spoiler

Seath and The Four Kings

. Can't beat either of them, feel stuck, kinda of just gave up. I think I am just too impatient and now is the time where it's finally effecting me, haha.

For

Spoiler

Seath

just run around him taking little stabs at his back. He shouldn't hit you much at all if you do that.

Spoiler

The Four Kings

all do different element damage so try testing out different shields for them.

 

[rackham]

I agreed with this until this thread where people were against having an option to skip credits and told other people that they shouldnt play a game if they didn't like that. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1284704&page=14

Now I understand how people who think "I like the game the way it is, so it shouldn't have an option to play it another way " are the dicks.
If the game had an easy mode, with 50% more damage and 50% more heatlh and blocked from online would that be bad for your gaming experience?

Yes. Why not just have an option that auto runs the entire game for you? the fact that the option is there means they wasted resources on a very unnecessary feature. Don't believe me that it's unnecessary? Critical and commercial success agree with me.

 

[test_account]

Personally, no. The Souls games are definitelly not impossible, things can be learned but the games are hard, especially for those who dont play much video games.

Souls games are basically what every single game was like before "experiences" took over.

I wouldnt say that at all. I've been playing since the late 80s and there was definitelly hard games back then as well, but also easy and easier games. Whats easy or hard is pretty much subjective though, but not all games before Demon's Souls required quicker reflexes and such.

 

[family_guy]

I laugh every time someone thinks the games being hard is the point/game is designed around it.

Yet when there was even a suggestion of the game having an easy mode the fans came out with their pitch forks in full force.

 

[xviper]

to everyone who has never played the series before, it may be a little difficult if it's your first Soulsborne game, but it's gonna be an experience you will never forget

i recommend you to start with the easiest( and by far the worst) Dark souls 3, you don't have to finish that abomination disgrace, just play for 10-20 hours to get used to the series formula, then start with the way the series started( the best) Demon's souls, then Dark souls 1, then Dark souls 2( underrated game on gaf) and the last good game in the series, Bloodborne

also don't forget all the awesome DLCs for all the games except Trash Souls 3

 

[Backlogger]

Some people don't want to play hard games. There's nothing wrong with that. Stop trying to convince them there's more there when they just don't want to bother with the barrier of entry or learning curve or challenge or whatever you want to call it

 

[Neoleo2143]

I would argue that for the veteran, the souls games are too easy but satisfying nonetheless. For the newcomer, they're definitely challenging affairs that demand you get to know certain things like its combat system. And indeed this learning period is the best part of souls. Bloodborne's lack of a tutorial area made it rather brutal for some of the newcomers I talked to. If they're going to add some difficulty selection, it should be geared toward advanced players.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

I'm more annoyed that my younger cousin finally tried Dark Souls 3, even telling me that he finally understands how it's ok if you lose in a game and that you don't need to rage out about it. Then he sent me a screencap of his character being a higher level than mine after only 3 days of first time play, carrying an impossible 99 estus flasks somehow. This a few days after telling me about his "friend" at work who says he doesn't even play games, he just cheats his way through them, and how dumb that guy is. All this partially because he's a liar, but also because he thinks the reputation that made him refuse to even try the series for years, makes it a mark of pride worth lying to me about.

 

[Fou-Lu]

For

Spoiler

Seath

just run around him taking little stabs at his back. He shouldn't hit you much at all if you do that.

Spoiler

The Four Kings

all do different element damage so try testing out different shields for them.

Spoiler

As far as Seath goes. I am trying to cut off his tail with the Moonlight Butterfly Horn and failing and it is probably making the fight more difficult than it needs to be. But I built with the Moonlight Greatsword in mind so I can't just pass it up.

 

[Spiritwalker]

Of course not. The games are difficult.

 

[SpecialAgentDaleCooper]

Calmer than me? Calling people names like "elitist' or "angry gatekeeper" or telling them to "calm down" is a shit counter argument.

You can experience level design, lore etc. with youtube videos. There's nothing that stops you from doing that.

If you don't understand the huge changes to the atmosphere of the game, the community discussions and everything else that comes with having 1 difficulty, you shouldn't be insulting people.

No, a shit argument is youtube is a suitable replacement for learning your way around Lordran by playing through it.

I understand all of those things you think would be ruined by someone playing at a lower difficulty, and what I don't get is how you don't get that if you choose to have that experience you still could. Nothing at all would force you to downgrade your difficulty...

Also lol at the "community discussions" being impacted by difficulty settings. I mean really? What a terrible reason to gate keep.

 

[Necron]

Having just successfully managed to take down (Dark Souls 3 DLC boss spoiler)

Spoiler

Sister Friede

today... yes, it is hard.

However, there is a learning curve and a person's first experience with a "Souls-game" is certainly the hardest part of it. For me that was Bloodborne's first area and in particular its first main boss...

In short: I don't think its perception as being difficult is entirely wrong. However, I do think it's over-exaggerated.

 

[Inorganic]

The Souls/BB games are most definitely difficult and very challenging, but that level of difficulty is entirely subjective depending on who has the controller in his/her hands. The vast majority of folks outside GAF find these games very challenging and a lot of them quit at various points, just see most of the 1 or 2 star Amazon reviews. The reality is that these games are not for everyone. It caters to a certain group and there is nothing else quite like it. The point of these games is to place players in an unforgiving world, let them fend for themselves, and challenge their gameplay skills and intelligence. There is no tutorials, no guidance, no mini maps, no hand holding, no pause, no instant saving, no going back and undoing a mistake (i.e. killed an NPC by mistake? Tough luck); you are on your own. You never know what lurks around the corner. Souls/Bloodborne thrives on difficulty and punishment. You have to learn from your mistakes, master the system, and grow with your character. This feeling of progression is tremendously rewarding and it simply cannot be replicated in other games.

 

[KLoWn]

Spoiler

As far as Seath goes. I am trying to cut off his tail with the Moonlight Butterfly Horn and failing and it is probably making the fight more difficult than it needs to be. But I built with the Moonlight Greatsword in mind so I can't just pass it up.

Spoiler

I died like 7 times on Seath trying to cut off his tail, got tired of it and went in just trying to kill him, did it first try, he was so easy. So yeah, the tail cutting added to the difficulty for me at least.

Why are we using spoilers?

 

[Moon_frogger]

Yes because I have had a hell of a time convincing friends to play it. these are people that can game circles around me in every genre. Finally got 2 of my brothers hooked after years of pestering. one is plowing through series, one is failing miserably at every turn and still hasn't completed dark souls 2 after months. both are having a blast.

other than that, I don't care.

 

[Moon_frogger]

No. How other people perceive the Souls games doesn't frustrate me. That would be silly.

well, I would love if more of my friends would play with me but most of them wont because of perceived difficulty. Am I silly? Or are you just needlessly dismissive?

 

[rackham]

No, shit argument is youtube is a suitable replacement for learning your way around Lordran by playing through it.

I understand all of those things you think would be ruined by someone playing at a lower difficulty, and what I don't get is how you don't get that if you choose to have that experience you still could. Nothing at all would force you to downgrade your difficulty...

It's not about nothing forcing me. It's about everyone who played it overcoming those same experiences. It's about no one really having any one advantage over one another.

And if you don't believe me because some people are just inherently better at certain games, well no shit. Go watch the Dark Souls run on youtube that's under 1 hour. It's incredible. Guy runs and hops his way (all legitimate) through the entire game on youtube. Do you think even half of players who beat Dark Souls can do that- even after watching that video? No.

Some people will blow through any Souls game and call it easy. Some people will sit on a boss for weeks. The point is that they all over came it.

People who say "difficulty isn't the point of a souls game lol!" well what is? The lore? The atmosphere? The soundtrack? The gameplay? how about all of it together? Remember Dark Souls II and how a lot of Souls fans find it to be the worst in a franchise. That's because there's a lot of things that make these games great and it's all of these things combined- not a few categories done right. DSII missed a lot of these elements.


You're missing a part of the experience that they don't want you to miss. Overcoming the obstacle IS apart of the game, therefore the difficulty is big part of the game.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I got to confess something- Ever since DS2 the way I've been playing Souls was to watch youtube to see where to go first. I've also extensively researched which weapon I want to get before even buying the game, as well as builds. Therefore the only difficulty was in the enemy encounters and boss fights.

So really I can't blame people who gets turned off by the difficulty or thinks the game is obtuse.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

Actually, no. If I tell somebody how great a Souls game is and they tell me that, I only shrug and say: "your loss", and then continue with my life.

Well lol you're taking it way to literal. When I say frustrated it's merely a statement, nobody is losing sleep over it or anything. But we all discuss on forums and it falls into discussions a good bit and I personally wish those who say it's hard and won't play it would see the light

 

[SpecialAgentDaleCooper]

It's about everyone who played it overcoming those same experiences..

If they cant git gud like I did they don't deserve to experience the game and enjoy it.

 

[Sad Affleck]

It is not a misconception. The games are hard and often extremely frustrating. Also they are not as fair as everyone says. I spent a good 25-30 hours on Dark Souls 1 and I eventually gave up because the game wasn't fun for me. There are large parts of it that are mostly about tedious repetition until you get good. Sadly, getting good isn't about learning the mechanics of the game and applying them in new and increasingly complex ways, it's about flawlessly executing a very specific sequence of moves and strikes to kill your opponent.

I can do it and I did for those 30 hours, expecting to feel the sense of accomplishment that every Souls fan is talking about. I never did. Every time I beat a tough non-respawnable enemy or a boss I never thought to myself "fuck yeah, I am the best". I thought "thank god I don't have to repeat this annoying battle again". Once I found out that I was feeling relief instead of satisfaction I dropped it.

I hate leaving games half-played so I would appreciate some words of encouragement or advice. I find constantly navigating the same environments and fighting the same enemies tedious and frustrating, should I just give up for good? Should I try some other classes? I played as a warrior with a sword and shield.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Gotta admit, I more dislike how the decent difficulty of the games inspires some hardcore fans to act elitist because they figured out how to beat a pattern-oriented boss or three.

The Souls games are legitimately difficult, but hardly superhuman or indicative of pinnacle skill. I've completed every Souls game to date in both solo and summoned co-op. I'd say that going online and getting decent at Call of Duty is harder and requires more discipline and time investment than completing a Souls game. By that metric there are way, way more people out there who are higher on the elite-o-meter than Souls fans.

I hate leaving games half-played so I would appreciate some words of encouragement or advice. I find constantly navigating the same environments and fighting the same enemies tedious and frustrating, should I just give up for good? Should I try some other classes? I played as a warrior with a sword and shield.

I don't know if this is relevant to how you played the game, but one of the biggest misconceptions about the games is that you are supposed to re-fight every single enemy in an area when they respawn, turning basic navigation into a slog. It's not required in most places. Learning the enemy placement, aggro ranges, and pursuit speed is intended to let a player move around while choosing when to engage and when to evade.

With a few admittedly frustrating exceptions, it's possible to run past most enemies and ignore them once you know where they are at.

 

[Wagram]

It is not a misconception. The games are hard and often extremely frustrating. Also they are not as fair as everyone says. I spent a good 25-30 hours on Dark Souls 1 and I eventually gave up because the game wasn't fun for me. There are large parts of it that are mostly about tedious repetition until you get good. Sadly, getting good isn't about learning the mechanics of the game and applying them in new and increasingly complex ways, it's about flawlessly executing a very specific sequence of moves and strikes to kill your opponent.

I really think you should re-read this.

 

[SpecialAgentDaleCooper]

Gotta admit, I more dislike how the decent difficulty of the games inspires some hardcore fans to act elitist because they figured out how to beat a pattern-oriented boss or three.

The Souls games are legitimately difficult, but hardly superhuman or indicative of pinnacle skill. I've completed every Souls game to date in both solo and summoned co-op. I'd say that going online and getting decent at Call of Duty is harder and requires more discipline and time investment than completing a Souls game. By that metric there are way, way more people out there who are higher on the elite-o-meter than Souls fans.

Rocket League also.

 

[KLoWn]

I got to confess something- Ever since DS2 the way I've been playing Souls was to watch youtube to see where to go first. I've also extensively researched which weapon I want to get before even buying the game, as well as builds. Therefore the only difficulty was in the enemy encounters and boss fights.

Doesn't that entirely kill the sense of exploration, and with that half of the fun?

 

[rackham]

If they cant git gud like I did they don't deserve to experience the game and enjoy it.

Talk about entitlement. "if I can't beat it they should just make it easier!"

Never mind the fact that millions upon millions of people played it, had their difficult time with it and got smarter about how they played instead of giving up and crying.

forget this git gud nonsense that, honestly, the people crying for easy mode hide behind more so than dudebros unironically using it.

 

[SpecialAgentDaleCooper]

Doesn't that entirely kill the sense of exploration, and with that half of the fun?

Because there's a wrong way to enjoy Dark Souls?

 

[Fou-Lu]

Spoiler

I died like 7 times on Seath trying to cut off his tail, got tired of it and went in just trying to kill him, did it first try, he was so easy. So yeah, the tail cutting added to the difficulty for me at least.

Why are we using spoilers?

Spoiler

So no one screams at me.

It would be less annoying trying to get the damn sword if there was a bonfire closer.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Just summon for everything. It's built into the game.

Seriously. It's interesting how many people ask for a difficulty setting when the easy mode actually does already exist.

 

[SpecialAgentDaleCooper]

Talk about entitlement. "if I can't beat it they should just make it easier!"

Never mind the fact that millions upon millions of people played it, had their difficult time with it and got smarter about how they played instead of giving up and crying.

forget this git gud nonsense that, honestly, the people crying for easy mode hide behind more so than dudebros unironically using it.

lol, so your argument for gatekeeping is to double down on gatekeeping. Got it.

 

[Hades Hotgun]

The Souls/BB games are most definitely difficult and very challenging, but that level of difficulty is entirely subjective depending on who has the controller in his/her hands. The vast majority of folks outside GAF find these games very challenging and a lot of them quit at various points, just see most of the 1 or 2 star Amazon reviews. The reality is that these games are not for everyone. It caters to a certain group and there is nothing else quite like it. The point of these games is to place players in an unforgiving world, let them fend for themselves, and challenge their gameplay skills and intelligence. There is no tutorials, no guidance, no mini maps, no hand holding, no pause, no instant saving, no going back and undoing a mistake (i.e. killed an NPC by mistake? Tough luck); you are on your own. You never know what lurks around the corner. Souls/Bloodborne thrives on difficulty and punishment. You have to learn from your mistakes, master the system, and grow with your character. This feeling of progression is tremendously rewarding and it simply cannot be replicated in other games.

Judging by the trophy rarity for completing the games, the Soulsbourne titles have above average completion, especially for games which take greater than average length to clear on the first play through.

While I imagine that is largely due to the dedication of fans of the titles and you are certainly right to say that this caters to a particular taste, it is worth noting that it stands out quite a bit from most other games in general in regards to completion rates.

Demon's Souls has the lowest rate that I saw with only about 19% completing it, but they usually tend to be closer to 1/4 or 1/3 of players beating the games. Comparing that to other games, it is quite high and all the more so when you compare games of similar length.

edit:

I got to confess something- Ever since DS2 the way I've been playing Souls was to watch youtube to see where to go first. I've also extensively researched which weapon I want to get before even buying the game, as well as builds. Therefore the only difficulty was in the enemy encounters and boss fights.

So really I can't blame people who gets turned off by the difficulty or thinks the game is obtuse.

Doesn't that entirely kill the sense of exploration, and with that half of the fun?

I play much like Chaos2Frozen does. As far as killing the sense of exploration and half the fun, well no. Not at all.

I don't have time to search meticulously through the game, my job and life don't give me the amount of free time necessary to do that and even if they did, I would not enjoy it as much as having some idea of what I am doing before hand. When a new title comes out I tend to wait a bit for patches, simple guides, and for some of the more egregiously obtuse secrets to be discovered. If others get some of their enjoyment from a virgin exploration, then that is great for them. I enjoy the world, the aesthetic, and the combat perfectly fine without that.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Doesn't that entirely kill the sense of exploration, and with that half of the fun?

I've thought about that a lot, and I came to the conclusion that for me that's not what I find most enjoyable about the games. For me it's all about making that build that uses the coolest looking weapons semi-viably and killing bosses with it.

Stuff like exploration and lore finding I can casually appreciate in youtube videos when I'm not in the hot seat.

 

[Valahart]

I was sure the difficulty was overrated and I had been having a relatively easy time getting through Dark Souls 1, then I got to

Spoiler

Seath and The Four Kings

. Can't beat either of them, feel stuck, kinda of just gave up. I think I am just too impatient and now is the time where it's finally effecting me, haha.

Do you want tips? Just beat

Spoiler

Seath

yesterday, except for the annoying curse once I didn't have that bad of a time beating it on my 3rd try.

 

[Horsemama1956]

Umm, it's just a game. Why would I care how it's perceived? Odd.

 

[afternoon delight]

No. How other people perceive the Souls games doesn't frustrate me. That would be silly.

.