Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
This piece lost me at "woke dudes", one of the last ways I'd ever describe the creatives behind the show. Was that sarcasm I just missed?
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South Park is not subversive
- Thread starter Malyse
- Start date
What's sad though is South Parks whole MO is to be so absurdly on the nose about their intentions. Problem is that's not good enough anymore.
The thing is, South Park DOES poke fun at both sides, but clearly, and I mean very clearly pick on one side way more than the other. Some people really can't handle their side being criticised at all or lampooned. It needs to be exclusively in line with the viewers agenda.
AuthenticM
Member
what the hell? That's not what Imagination Land was about. lol.
Eh. One thing I tend to notice is that those on the left seem more often than not to recognize South Park's failing in certain areas while fans of it on the right tend to put themselves into knots to say how it's not really trying to say what it's trying to say.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Yeah, this dude needs an editor, or at least one who cares.
There are some legitimate criticisms that could be leveled at South Park/Parker and Stone, but this is not a good piece.
So at the end of that Catholic episode, when they give the "real world catholic" a voice-of-reason monologue where he says "people need mythology to live their life by or they just start spewing shit" and all the atheists throughout the episode are spewing shit. And in that other episode they dump on Dawkins... you're saying that the show and M&T aren't taking a stance about atheists and catholics?!
It is crazy to see the shift. This was their shtick for decades, but until they went after what was the 'PC Principal' crowd, they turned so fast. Gone were the emmy accolades, their lampooning of Christians, gun nuts, conservatives, Matt and Trey became the voice for the alt-right in a sense if you listened to some people. Eveeyone is a fan until they are the ones being lampooned. Look at Isaac Hayes. He was fine with them insulting Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Mormons until it was Scientology's turn.
This is a show that had dancing Christmas poo, and anal probes, etc. They've lampooned anything and everything for over 2 decades.
For a charity, that Charity and all those who receive it must be Alt Right too!
pretty poorly written and unconvincing article. though I share the author's confusion as to why it's still on and celebrated, frankly. found the show hysterical over a decade ago as a teenager but every time I've caught some of it in the last five-ish years it's struck me as aggressively vacant and unfunny. buddies tried to convince me the latest election season was great but the ep they chose was just awful. whatever tho not my bag
Phrozenflame500
Member
really i thought "woke" was typically used ironically
Audioboxer
Member
Social media has allowed people to see the interests of all their 'enemies'. So you can see within a few clicks that people on the right like games you do, so those games become suspect. They like anime you do, so that anime becomes suspect. They like a show or comedian you do, so they both become suspect. It gets to a point where you seemingly cannot enjoy your own hobbies and recreational time in your life unless you can reach 99.5% left wing only approval of something. The irony is back before FB and Twitter really took off the same right wingers were laughing at what you were then, you just didn't know.
We live in a world where emojis get co-opted and "can't" be used anymore, so is it any surprise people act like that around South Park if some assholes on the right post pictures of Cartman or something SP related? Something appealing to people who don't align with you politically isn't necessarily endorsement of them and their actions. I said it earlier but even assholes like to laugh. They like to eat, wear clothes, play games and play sports too. That's life. This guilt by association mentality that goes around these days can spiral out of control at times.
Alex Hirsch and Dana Terrace were there too. Don't watch Gravity Falls or the new Ducktales unless you are a literal nazi.
perfectchaos007
Member
I don't think "The Outline" is like "The Onion" in satire. Pretty sure they take themselves seriously. Even if it seems like they don't.
Matt and Trey have lampooned Atheists, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Mormons and Scientologists. If you were to take them satirizing all of this as some sort of harsh, absolute stance against, what do you imagine they believe?
Ravensmash
Member
I didn't even realise there was controversy over that character.
I found him fucking hilarious.
I mean, this is a show that also labels Jesus as an Imaginary friend, and the catholic church as full of pedophiles.
You can mock catholics while also realizing that lots of atheists some times are full of shit. Like I always see atheists on facebook trying to disregard religious people in a way that is looking for confrontation instead of serious debate. South Park was mocking that crowd. Not atheists as a whole
If you didn't watch the whole season you could vastly misinterpret what the intention with him was.
Pretty much. Idk how anyone can think like this. Like, how did this happen and why?
Also this show has talking poop in it. Just keep that in mind yall.
WaterAstro
Member
I just watch it for fun and humour. I can tell there are deeper underlying messages, but whatever.
Well, I'm sure this had already happened before I read this article, but my main takeaway is that "woke" joins the dustbin of new media terms that have ceased to be useful descriptors of everything because they've been overused ad nauseam. I don't think South Park's creators would ever have called themselves "woke", and at least for the author the definition of the term is 100% whatever they think about social issues, with no sort of deviation allowed, lest your views become "fake". Ironic that it's a left-wing guy who is basically complaining about South Park as virtue signaling.
(Also, I find the idea that what modern satire needs is "nuance" hilariously at conflict with the writers' complaints that South Park is never on-the-nose enough and full-throated for him.)
(Also, I find the idea that what modern satire needs is "nuance" hilariously at conflict with the writers' complaints that South Park is never on-the-nose enough and full-throated for him.)
Audioboxer
Member
Because the right have found a lot of common ground and backpatting within their community at attacking "political correctness" it therefore means the left has to run a mile. In absolutely no uncertain terms can the left ever engage in laughing at any jokes or satire around... how should I put it not to say PC... minor overreactions. It becomes that litmus test for how woke are you? Do you laugh at any perceived minor overreactions in life? If so, you might now be alt-right. Sterilise your "humour bone" and retrain your brain to react negatively to ever being able to laugh at minor overreactions in life. It could mean you're slipping and transforming into the enemy!
The greatest irony with South Park is it used to be the left back in the day attacking and laughing at the "political correctness" of the Conservative right. Those saying metal music was corrupting children, South Park would lead to broken marriages and violent video games to serial killers. Those were overreactions, and we used to laugh at them. Prod them, poke them and satirise them. You didn't need to be mean doing it, but yeah, you could rip the arse out of the arguments themselves. Again, it's fine to laugh at the butt of the joke if it's against the other side. Laughing at overreactions from people on the left? Oh no, only the alt-right do that. We can't possibly laugh at anything anyone on our side might overreact to! Don't self-deprecate or joke at our expense at all! Our side is infallible. Our side is perfect. Yeah, that's what the Conservative right thought as well. No one thinks they're "wrong" or "overreacting" if they truly believe what they're saying. No one wants to be the joke of something they feel passionate about, but sometimes you do need to be able to or you'll risk writing a blog post like the one in the OP.
I do need to disclaimer, yes, it is a well known tactic of the right to treat EVERYTHING as political correctness just so they can be mean, nasty and try and shut down or stem serious social and political matters. I know that. This is a response to the meltdowns because of PC Principal in a TV broadcasted cartoon. I'm sorry, but many of those meltdowns were indeed overreactions. Especially considering how the PC Principal arc actually went. People as usual who didn't watch it just reacting to the characters name and maybe one or two clips from the show. Even if PC Principal didn't end up as he did there were still so many overreactions, no fun allowed and people totally unable to do the above and laugh at themselves/their own side for once. Even if it's not your taste for humour, it was the waves of alt-right show article nonsense that was indeed an overreaction. Especially from people who'd said jack squat about South Park before but because the crosshairs now landed on them suddenly they were an intellectual force on South Park history, legacy, meaning and satire. All just to let us know, bad people are laughing at South Park and that should make you think.
Dude Abides
Banned
Except this is complete bullshit. They are basic libertarians and also hate liberals who they think are preachy. That's why they hate environmentalists. That's why they made fun of Al Gore for an entire episode but not George W. Bush. That's why Team America had a bunch of Hollywood liberals who were buffoons at best, traitors at worst, but you'll never see them go after Bill O'Reilly. Yeah they made fun of the Catholic Church but guess what there are plenty of conservatives who aren't Catholic or even relisious.
Saying South Park is some kind of equal opportunity satire is an admission that your understanding of American politics is puddle deep.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
South Park itself talked about how black slang is taken and overused by the mainstream so bitching about "woke" seems extra hilarious in the context of this thread lol
Finally someone says it.
DongBeetle
Banned
Lol some people in that thread came dangerously close to suggesting this
cheezcake
Member
Thank you for posting this.
DiscoJer
Member
You realize that it wasn't just the right going on about heavy metal and video games? There is a reason warning stickers on cds are called "Tipper Stickers" because they are named after TIpper Gore, the driving force behind it. She was also against violent video games.
http://www.aei.org/publication/regu...tipper-gore-versus-dee-snider-all-over-again/
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4279560
And that's not just ancient history, in 2011 California had a law banning selling violent video games to minors which was eventually struck down 7-2 by the Supreme Court, with arch conservative Scalia writing the majority opinion against the law (the two dissenters were Thomas and Breyer)
It's not satire. I listen to their daily podcast and it's millennial news/editorials. It's a nice addition/complement to NPR but when they get into this territory it's usually bad. This one in particular. I considered dropping my subscription after this piece aired the other day.
Ravensmash
Member
Audioboxer
Member
I do know this. I was just trying to illustrate how one political side is okay laughing at overreactions of the other side, but if the spotlight comes to their side it's mayhem. Stereotypically speaking the Conservative right, or Christian right if you're in America have been the pack leaders on moral busy body attitudes around sex, swearing, violence, humour, satire and so on within movies, shows, games, books and anywhere people seek enjoyment/laughs/fun/blowing off steam.
The irony is the left is indeed catching up in the race to be over the top when it comes to the things it was almost exclusively the Conservative/Christian right railing at. Hence why so many left leaning articles and blogs are lampooning South Park in the current era. So I know you're right, people on the left go after it all too, the above was just illustrative of a 90s and 00s that was mostly us railing on the right overreacting. It took a while for violent video games and metal music will do x to your children to die off. It was mostly people on the left fighting that, and I can still remember Jack Thompson being roasted alive on GAF as well as any other violent video games cause x articles.
Now we're almost facing watching South Park will make you alt-right. Or, watching it means you're endorsing the alt-right because they're laughing at the same jokes as you are. That's not a high end criticism of the show or you simply saying you don't find it funny, that's you trying to be a controlling moral busy body like groups of people we've satirised in the past who inferred dire consequences from video games, music and satirical/crude humour. Decent, well adjusted and moral human beings do not watch a 20 minute show called South Park and then wake up the next day "born again alt-right". We take life less seriously for that 20 minutes and try and laugh at some outrageous characters, before switching back on and going back to the real world/daily grind and our social/political duties.
I can see the criticism. Acting like you get it when you don't get it comes off weird.
DongBeetle
Banned
What you guys have against people who can't write
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Your high horse must be getting old with all those decade+ examples you used.
Yeah, this completely.
I don't think it's simply a case that those who have a problem with South Park picking left or progressive targets are the same as Isaac Hayes, who can dish it to the religious right but can't take it... that isn't what is happening at all. South Park initially picked targets that made it seem like it didn't give a shit about anything, but over time you can definitely see the bias of M&T in who they target and how far they push it.
MajinSweet4
Member
And yet that movies biggest piece of satire was lampooning the overly militarized culture of America and the over top way we champion that with patriotism. Those things are largely categorized with right wing rhetoric, so in a way you basically proved that guys point by only focusing on the things that poke fun at "your side".
But... Team America was "making fun of GWB's foreign policy: The Film".
SecretMoblin
Member
like many things about this topic I'm genuinely not sure if "but they didn't make fun of GWB" is a troll attempt or not
I'll raise you one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That's_My_Bush!
Audioboxer
Member
Hah, I'd never heard of this. As a fan of Veep and The Thick of It I'll have to watch it at some point. I'm cautiously expecting it to be shit. Not Orgazmo levels of shit though (so bad it's kind of good as one of those early teen comedies).
Raven117
Member
Yup. This thought is the more interesting observation about how people view South Park rather than what South Park is actually doing.
Its like an ink blot test.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
From what I remember it was meh. It got cancelled right before 9/11.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
They've definitely gone down the cultural right path, because they don't realize that libertarianism is just as much being a dick as being on the right. They didn't even realize it with Al Gore ten years ago, ffs.
Honestly, the only thing I feel on it when I saw this thread was: "oh yeah, that show still exists and isn't cancelled yet". It was funny two decades ago, but it's way past its prime now, particularly when Rick & Morty or Bojack Horseman can run full marathons around it, while SP is still pretending it's relevant.
I won't mourn its cancellation.
SmackDaddy
Member
I think Trey and Matt are saying "fuck American politics" and "life is too short might as well laugh at everything."
I'm not sure people should take seriously a show about Underpants Gnomes and Crab People.
I'm pretty hardcore liberal and PC Principle was hilarious. I never once understood it as taking a shot at my side. They could have made him a super huge hippie or a blog activist or something more annoying, but they made him a white bro, which screams right wing to me. I think they were trying to wrap up both sides in his persona.
I'm not sure people should take seriously a show about Underpants Gnomes and Crab People.
I'm pretty hardcore liberal and PC Principle was hilarious. I never once understood it as taking a shot at my side. They could have made him a super huge hippie or a blog activist or something more annoying, but they made him a white bro, which screams right wing to me. I think they were trying to wrap up both sides in his persona.
Spieler Eins
Member
They only made an entire fake sitcom to make fun of Bush.
South Park itself also had several instances in which he was portrayed as a buffoon and his cabinet controlled by Satan. Meanwhile, they never had a single mean joke about Obama. What seems to be puddle deep is your knowledge of the show.
ViperVisor
Member
They were wanting to do a show either way.
South park still makes fun of catholics, still portray them as rapists and shit, even the upcoming game has a catholic rapist priest as an enemy, or there is that bloody mary episode.
You want this to frame this as them standing with catholics just because they mocked atheists, and yes it's true, one of them (don't remember if matt or trey) did say he believes in some form of god even if he doesn't subscribe to any organized religion, but just because he has a defined stand on atheism, doesn't make him pro catholic or even pro organized religion, they're pretty much very anti organized religion.
It seems to me that you want them to have a defined agenda that falls into your preconceived parameters of Liberal/Conservative, you say that they don't have concrete stances, but they do, they have very well defined opinions and stances in individual issues, just because they don't aprove of all things left doesn't change the fact that they sure as hell aren't right leaning.