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[Bumblebeetuna]

Jeez why is Xbox discussion on this board always such visual diarrhea. Does anyone here actually honestly believe that someone might think Microsoft doesn't give a crap if they sell any hardware? Exactly how are they supposed to get people subscribed to services if there is no hardware. What they mean when they are talking hardware sales not being important it's the old school way of thinking versus their vision for the future of Xbox. Hardware sales don't matter in the way they used to. That doesn't mean they don't matter at all. Use your fucking heads lol.

It's funny, every Spencer thread is full of the same people talking about how others just blindly believe anything he says, yet they themselves are the ones who always seem the most upset about what he says. I really don't get it. Take this interview for example. He was asked how COVID and the financial impact could affect the launch and he says that video games are not food, they aren't shelter, and if a family decides they aren't going to buy a console this year, that's fine. That their plan for Xbox doesn't revolve around how many consoles they sell this year. Why is there so much bullshit about such a simple and logical answer to a question?

 

[NullZ3r0]

`````````````````````````````

Great selling point for XSX.

Great selling point for Xcloud. Not everyone can afford a console.

 

[Psykodad]

Wow, almost like it’s trying to sell xCloud and not XSX. Almost like they’d rather have service subs than console sales. Almost like they’ve clearly stated that as their goal for months if not years now.
Having a clown as your profile picture is very appropriate.

Thank you, captain Obvious.

Btw, glad you noticed the profile picture.

 

[iHaunter]

that phil spencer has actually convinced some people they don't care about how many xboxs they sell is honestly impressive

Doesn't want to admit overwhelming defeat this gen no doubt. XBox One X* was a flop.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

Jeez why is Xbox discussion on this board always such visual diarrhea. Does anyone here actually honestly believe that someone might think Microsoft doesn't give a crap if they sell any hardware? Exactly how are they supposed to get people subscribed to services if there is no hardware. What they mean when they are talking hardware sales not being important it's the old school way of thinking versus their vision for the future of Xbox. Hardware sales don't matter in the way they used to. That doesn't mean they don't matter at all. Use your fucking heads lol.

It's funny, every Spencer thread is full of the same people talking about how others just blindly believe anything he says, yet they themselves are the ones who always seem the most upset about what he says. I really don't get it. Take this interview for example. He was asked how COVID and the financial impact could affect the launch and he says that video games are not food, they aren't shelter, and if a family decides they aren't going to buy a console this year, that's fine. That their plan for Xbox doesn't revolve around how many consoles they sell this year. Why is there so much bullshit about such a simple and logical answer to a question?

You do know Xcloud was will be on upcoming Samsung tvs right? Theres a bigger picture you cant fathom yet.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

Doesn't want to admit overwhelming defeat this gen no doubt. XBox Series X was a flop.

Wait you have to gone into the future where XSX is released? Please tell me all about it lol.

 

[iHaunter]

Wait you have to gone into the future where XSX is released? Please tell me all about it lol.

Oops meant the Xbox One X.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

Oops meant the Xbox One X.

Ok cool..no worries.

 

[EDMIX]

Not sure what the second part of your comment means.

More devices is better, if you don't have your own eco system. 160 million more devices sounds great but not nearly as enticing when you have to lose 40-50 percent of your revenue plus abide by everyone else's rules.

Ok, but they don't get that 160 install base with those rules. Thats the same "rules" that Ubisoft, EA, Acitivsion, Take 2 and everyone else has to follow. So they don't get more users by continue this set up, they just get less. So I think 3rd party is likely inevitable for them if they keep this up as it starts to question the point of even making hardware if they are JUST fighting for subscriptions and services etc.

 

[sinnergy]

The whole media entertainment industry is going subscription based or streaming , I predicted this 5 years ago, this is how they will make money. The hardware , consoles , TVs , streaming boxes are just here to facilitate.

as old gamers we need to start accept this , companies also.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

I think he means he doesn't care how many Series X's are sold right away. Because ...

The Xbox One S is still a factor for them, as is the One X. They are creating an ecosystem and it doesn't really matter to them which one you buy as long as you have one and/or subscribe to Game Pass and XBL.

Also the whole world is extremely unpredictable right now so a brand new expensive next gen console isn't really on a lot of people's minds.

It's a very different approach that could work depending on how they price their older systems. A X1 at $100 could really sell and get people on GamePass.

 

[Craig of War]

Spencer has a point here in the US 40 million unemploy economy is so bad that is not seen since the great depression Covid Virus is still out there and a 2nd wave might hit at any time also major riots and looting and also the November president election which is around the time the new console will launch so add everything up and it is not looking good for sales

 

[PropellerEar]

Casuals might not care if they get SeX or SeS, they just want to play the Minecraft and Fortnite.

All talk about amount of consoles being sold not being important is BS, why then make a cheap ass version of Xbox.
Because consoles are the "gateway" into the "addiction" of GP.
They even have subscription to get the console for those who can't afford one, feels like what MS is doing is preying on the weak.

Phils PR should come with a reality filter bit what we see in some videos by Kingthrash

 

[TBiddy]

They even have subscription to get the console for those who can't afford one, feels like what MS is doing is preying on the weak.

Yes, that is clearly what is happening here. Shame on Microsoft. They should start selling their consoles at 799$, that way the "weak" won't be tempted.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

They even have subscription to get the console for those who can't afford one, feels like what MS is doing is preying on the weak.

"Gaming should only be for the financially strong! If you got no money your escapism should be more work!"

 

[PropellerEar]

Yes, that is clearly what is happening here. Shame on Microsoft. They should start selling their consoles at 799$, that way the "weak" won't be tempted.

While MSFT All Access(?), isn't a bad deal (Xbox+GP on monthly fee).
Rent to own is often a way of exploiting on the poor.

 

[Spukc]

Yes, that is clearly what is happening here. Shame on Microsoft. They should start selling their consoles at 799$, that way the "weak" won't be tempted.

The "weak" buy 1k smartphones

 

[TBiddy]

While MSFT All Access(?), isn't a bad deal (Xbox+GP on monthly fee).
Rent to own is often a way of exploiting on the poor.

You could argue that, yeah, but I don't think "preying on the weak" is fair.

 

[D.Final]

`````````````````````````````

Great selling point for Xcloud. Not everyone can afford a console.

Well...

 

[FranXico]

Wait, why did the thread title get changed from "Our strategy does not revolve around how many Xboxes I sell this year." to this new one?

?

To better reflect the content of the interview. I too was misled by the baity title

 

[Nikana]

Ok, but they don't get that 160 install base with those rules. Thats the same "rules" that Ubisoft, EA, Acitivsion, Take 2 and everyone else has to follow. So they don't get more users by continue this set up, they just get less. So I think 3rd party is likely inevitable for them if they keep this up as it starts to question the point of even making hardware if they are JUST fighting for subscriptions and services etc.

All of the publishers you listed already have their own launchers. Why do you think you can't get Overwatch on Steam? They don't want to give up their cut.

Microsoft has the install base of windows to help them quite a bit and the Xbox brand the USA and parts of Europe is very strong. All they have to do is make hardware and break even and they are in better shape than just being third party.

If Microsoft only sold 10 million consoles that would be one thing but the Xbox One even with it's awful first 3 years managed to break 50 mil.

I'm not saying they won't put gamepass on third parties but to give up consoles and hardware just so they can be on more devices doesn't make sense when they can make more money on their own.

 

[Rolla]

Look, Phil Spencer has a bad habit of pre-emptive damage control. When they lost COD, FIfa, Before CD3, SFV going exclusive etc etc etc. This guy and Greenberg are kings at give away a lot of info pre-emptively. The problem with saying in advance that you don't care about console sales is the fact that they are actually releasing a new console.

In my opinion, this is about Playstation's mindshare. Consider how open XBOX has been about the series X. THey've shown the form factor, shown a tear down, had an official event, and announced all of these pro consumer
policies. Yet still they can't get traction beyond their core and are barely noticed outside of the states. While in contrast, Playtation

. Posts "PS5" on instagram. Breaks all metrics for gaming on that platform, Trends "Globally" on twitter.
. Posts a DS controller on Twitter. Trends "Globally" becomes most liked gaming tweet in twitter history.
. Has UE5 PS5 demo drop and instantly has casuals believing that the SSD makes the PS5 more powerful than the series X (it isn't.) Trends "Globally" etc etc

Microsoft knows metrics. They know they're not messing with Sony's mindshare, Momentum, or market share. They know that Sony touting new generations while they've committed to no new games for two years (because reasons) and how that narrative is going to play out. Because of 2013 Microsoft is all too aware of how damaging bad PR can be for their brand.

When Pre Orders go live it's going to be apparent that Sony is outselling them out the gate. And this PR is an attempt to mitigate how that narrative plays out in the gaming community.

Spencer has a point here in the US 40 million unemploy economy is so bad that is not seen since the great depression Covid Virus is still out there and a 2nd wave might hit at any time also major riots and looting and also the November president election which is around the time the new console will launch so add everything up and it is not looking good for sales

So basically it's only the US that's important?

 

[Gamernyc78]

How is it a stupid statement? His implying that they want the console to be accessible to many people and that the price should be right.

It's stupid because the only reason he's saying it is because Sony has them cornered and demolished in hardware sales. Had thy been console hardware selling leaders his messaging would have been totally different. Add to that the fact tht console sales actually matter more than he's admitting because you know the more consoles you sell the more subscribers and the more maus.

Dont get caught defending pr bs we all know isn't true based off stats and history. Sony's gaming division has been way more profitable for years because guess what? Those hardware sales which in turn lead to more subscriptions and software sales.

 

[TBiddy]

Look, Phil Spencer has a bad habit of pre-emptive damage control. When they lost COD, FIfa, Before CD3, SFV going exclusive etc etc etc. This guy and Greenberg are kings at give away a lot of info pre-emptively. The problem with saying in advance that you don't care about console sales is the fact that they are actually releasing a new console.

I think that is rather disingenous. He says that the strategy revolves around subscriptions. That's by no means the same as "doesn't care about console sales". It means, that it's more important for them to get 20 million subscribers and 40 million sales, than it is to get 10 million subscribers and 60 million sales.

Microsoft is not going to outsell Sony, but both Microsoft and Sony are raking in cash on their subscription services and that is by far the most important metric, along with software sales. Console sales isn't the most important number here.

That is what Spencer is saying.

 

[Rolla]

I think that is rather disingenous. He says that the strategy revolves around subscriptions. That's by no means the same as "doesn't care about console sales". It means, that it's more important for them to get 20 million subscribers and 40 million sales, than it is to get 10 million subscribers and 60 million sales.

Microsoft is not going to outsell Sony, but both Microsoft and Sony are raking in cash on their subscription services and that is by far the most important metric, along with software sales. Console sales isn't the most important number here.

That is what Spencer is saying.

The problem with this is that we have quarterly reports for XBOX and when we step away from the PR and look at their actual financials... They paint a pretty grim picture. Quarter after quarter year after year, they have been down on all fronts. Revenue collapse, hardware collapse. It's the point where they create new metrics of success and then scrap those new measurements for new ones when the the quarter to quater comparison doesn't work.

Do you want me to post those quarterly reports?

Phil is semi good at PR but XBOX has a legal obligation to report on their financials. And those numbers are not biased, just factual.

 

[gamerforever]

Already putting the white flag up! Good old phil.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

It's stupid because the only reason he's saying it is because Sony has them cornered and demolished in hardware sales. Had thy been console hardware selling leaders his messaging would have been totally different. Add to that the fact tht console sales actually matter more than he's admitting because you know the more consoles you sell the more subscribers and the more maus.

Dont get caught defending pr bs we all know isn't true based off stats and history. Sony's gaming division has been way more profitable for years because guess what? Those hardware sales which in turn lead to more subscriptions and software sales.

Console sales are important, but since they also target the PC market with their subscription services it's only a small part of it. So it's not THAT important. Their subscription service has the potential to generate more money than hardware and software sales ever did, so this isn't PR bullshit, it's just common business sense.

 

[TBiddy]

The problem with this is that we have quarterly reports for XBOX and when we step away from the PR and look at their actual financials... They paint a pretty grim picture. Quarter after quarter year after year, they have been down on all fronts. Revenue collapse, hardware collapse. It's the point where they create new metrics of success and then scrap those new measurements for new ones when the the quarter to quater comparison doesn't work.

Do you want me to post those quarterly reports?

Phil is semi good at PR but XBOX has a legal obligation to report on their financials. And those numbers are not biased, just factual.

You can post all the quarterly reports you wish. That doesn't support your argument that they "don't care about console sales".

 

[Nikana]

The problem with this is that we have quarterly reports for XBOX and when we step away from the PR and look at their actual financials... They paint a pretty grim picture. Quarter after quarter year after year, they have been down on all fronts. Revenue collapse, hardware collapse. It's the point where they create new metrics of success and then scrap those new measurements for new ones when the the quarter to quater comparison doesn't work.

Do you want me to post those quarterly reports?

Phil is semi good at PR but XBOX has a legal obligation to report on their financials. And those numbers are not biased, just factual.

You mean a product that has had a really rough generation and is about to replaced has seen lowering revenue and lowering sales? Im shocked I tell you.

Nobody has ever claimed Xbox is somehow holding Microsoft up and that it was a at the forefront of Microsoft, but this notion because its down and suffered this gen that it needs to be shot in the head and Microsoft doesn't care is getting really tired. They are going forward with a whole new generation and strategy after having a device that had to be basically retrofitted into a business strategy after their original vision fell flat on its face. Yeah they really must not give a shit.

Considering all of the R&D they have done on Series X and Series S along with the Game Pass investment their numbers actually are more positive than you would expect.

 

[Shmunter]

Sheesh. Where’s the confident MS?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Rent to own is often a way of exploiting on the poor.

This rent actually comes at the same price as buying just 2 of the latest AAA games per year, and its much easier to manage financially since the cost will always be fixed. Yeah, you won't 'own' the game, but a lot of titles were made to be played and put down anyway, and as it turns out, not everyone cares about owning a $60 product that they might never use again.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Console sales are important, but since they also target the PC market with their subscription services it's only a small part of it. So it's not THAT important. Their subscription service has the potential to generate more money than hardware and software sales ever did, so this isn't PR bullshit, it's just common business sense.

"A small part of it" because all of the sudden they offer it on PC? Lmao hell no. It's more probable to say it's the opposite, that the majority of consumers for gamepass are the type of demographics found on console more so than on PC and that it's for this very reason that MS is going through all the trouble of releasing gaming consoles to begin with. PC gamers already pinch pennies on Steam and GOG - with the freedom to chose which content that penny goes to.

As for potential - well the sky is always the limit if you believe a sales pitch at heart. But it's crazy to even think Gamepass on PC will blow up to such an extent to the point it'll leave Steam in shambles. I mean there is nothing wrong in dreaming of course.

#ThisishowwebeatSteam.
#gamepass

 

[Rolla]

Considering all of the R&D they have done on Series X and Series S along with the Game Pass investment their numbers actually are more positive than you would expect.

This is exactly the point I and others are making.

The difference between us is that we don't believe in the accompanying PR because of the above factual point.

 

[Nikana]

This is exactly the point I and others are making.

The difference between us is that we don't believe in the accompanying PR because of the above factual point.

You're gonna have to elaborate. SO because they are investing in R&D, New Studios and Game Pass, they dont care about Xbox?

 

[TBiddy]

You're gonna have to elaborate. SO because they are investing in R&D, New Studios and Game Pass, they dont care about Xbox?

Makes perfect sense. Invest a shitload of cash in a new console, because they don't care about console sales.

 

[Nikana]

Makes perfect sense. Invest a shitload of cash in a new console, because they don't care about console sales.

I like how this debate has started because of something Spencer didn't even say and the OP is trying really hard to take one line out of context and claim a whole division of Microsoft isn't cared about.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

"A small part of it" because all of the sudden they offer it on PC? Lmao hell no. It's more probable to say it's the opposite, that the majority of consumers for gamepass are the type of demographics found on console more so than on PC and that it's for this very reason that MS is going through all the trouble of releasing gaming consoles to begin with. PC gamers already pinch pennies on Steam and GOG - with the freedom to chose which content that penny goes to.

As for potential - well the sky is always the limit if you believe a sales pitch at heart. But it's crazy to even think Gamepass on PC will blow up to such an extent to the point it'll leave Steam in shambles. I mean there is nothing wrong in dreaming of course.

#ThisishowwebeatSteam.
#gamepass

Nowhere did I say it would leave Steam in shambles... I'm saying that PC+Xbox is a lot more than PS, so if they are able to sell services on PC/Xbox it makes a lot of business sense, and they can generate more money than only focussing on consoles, and put all their eggs in that basket.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Nowhere did I say it would leave Steam in shambles... I'm saying that PC+Xbox is a lot more than PS, so if they are able to sell services on PC/Xbox it makes a lot of business sense, and they can generate more money than only focussing on consoles, and put all their eggs in that basket.

Well then... I might have read too much into "has the potential to generate more money than hardware/software sales" - which is in essence the traditional console business model, and by extension, Steam's business model (without the hardware). Not to mention, gaming users in the PC is not an infinite supply of units. MS's success will come at the expense, in some form or another of the established players in the PC space (Steam and Epic). To me anyway that is a lot of hocus pocus - "I'm the next Netflix" voodoo potential that some suits dream up every time they see something successful elsewhere that they try to copycat.

As for everything else you've said, it's in my opinion improbable and counter intuitive. On PC alone we're already seeing that in practice people are "subscribing" for one thing and one thing only, to pinch a penny on the odd oddity of a good MS exclusive, and on the odd oddity that a AAA multiplat is cheaper to acquire there than on a Steam sale. But like all savy consumers pinching pennies, the second they've gotten what they came for, the second they gone.

 

[Airbus Jr]

"Phil Spencer: Economic uncertainty means new xbox may not be priority. "

?

So what exatly is your priority? Speaking as xbox head division ?

 

[MoreJRPG]

Sheesh. Where’s the confident MS?

They showed the console off at the end of last year and put out the spec list before Sony could even counter in. That’s pretty damn confident.

 

[MoreJRPG]

"Phil Spencer: Economic uncertainty means new xbox may not be priority. "

?

So what exatly is your priority? Speaking as xbox head division ?

Selling Xbox games and services, which make up virtually all the revenue of a console developer. It’s not hard to grasp. There’s a reason Sony is putting game’s on PC and stepping up the PSNow library.

 

[Nikana]

"Phil Spencer: Economic uncertainty means new xbox may not be priority. "

?

So what exatly is your priority? Speaking as xbox head division ?

For the consumer.

 

[mckmas8808]

Spencer has a point here in the US 40 million unemploy economy is so bad that is not seen since the great depression Covid Virus is still out there and a 2nd wave might hit at any time also major riots and looting and also the November president election which is around the time the new console will launch so add everything up and it is not looking good for sales

So why hasn't Sony had this same outlook? They are looking to sell about the same amount of new consoles (i.e. PS5) as they did with the PS4 in the first 2 quarters of release.

 

[TBiddy]

"Phil Spencer: Economic uncertainty means new xbox may not be priority. "

?

So what exatly is your priority? Speaking as xbox head division ?

Did you even bother to read the article or the thread?

 

[Nikana]

Did you even bother to read the article or the thread?

Thats a silly question.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

So why hasn't Sony had this same outlook?

Because they are stupid? If money will be tight next fall then it surely will affect sales. However, it seems the US economy is picking up steam (gaining jobs in May, not losing them) so things may be swell after all.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure most of you guys replying in this thread have not even read the article...

 

[ResilientBanana]

Sheesh. Where’s the confident MS?

Not needing a console is pretty confident.

Gamepass + xCloud + Mobile/Tablet/Console/PC = win
Gamepass + PC = win
Gamepass + Console = win
Gamepass + Xbox Live + Console = win
Gamepass + All of the above = win

They don't really lose in these situations. Sony has a great strategy with their console and as far as technology is concerned they seem like they may be on top with asset streaming. But Microsoft is covering ground that Sony is hesitant on covering, which may give Microsoft a competitive edge. The caveat to Microsoft's competitive edge, however, is lack of amazing story-driven content. Sony is setting the bar in that regard. If Microsoft can create more compelling content than the Xbox One era, then we are in for something amazing from both sides. I honestly can't wait for Next-Gen to start.

 

[xiseerht]

We have some odd people in here . The moment Xbox allowed their games to be played on PC and created a world where they allowed you to play on whatever way you want to play their games on , means they were done with the console wars . The true number from MS is Xbox Live users and Xbox Game Pass users t. So if they only focus on units sold then it will never tell the whole story for them . Some people will never buy a console , but will have 10-12 Xbox Game Studios games on their PC (running Microsoft Windows, using a Xbox controller) , with a Game Pass sub . So is MS not suppose to count them , since they didn't buy a console ?

 

[Texas Pride]

But the Game Pass strategy can result in so much more money than the console business...

Let's say the XSX will sell for $500 the first year. You'll only need 3 people that will subscribe for 1 year on Game Pass to generate the same amount of money. (3 people * $15 GP subscription * 12 months). Knowing that Game Pass is available on PC AND Xbox, I understand that he says that selling Xbox consoles isn't the only metric onto which Nadella will grade his performance.

Getting the money upfront on a console sale is much more reliable than hoping those 3 people stay subbed on Gamespass for an entire year at full price. That's not really even debatable.

 

[cireza]

We have some odd people in here

People come in the topic stating how MS is shifting metrics to make communication look better (while it is actually only natural considering what they are actually doing in the market), but these people actually cling to a single metric themselves that make them feel comfortable. Console warriors