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[CapNBritain]

Thanks Angelus, the OP is a very articulated argument. I can totally empathize where you are coming from up to the point of cultural appropriation.

First of all, I am an Asian and I wasn't born and raise in NA. My family move to NA when I was in junior high school. I have spent more time in my life living in NA than where I was born. For the past 8 years, I am living in California.

My gut reaction of seeing a white girl with a well done box braid is that she looks different than most of her friends because it is just different than the norm. Nothing racial would come to my mind. It is the same effect of seeing a black man doing really good Wing Chun at a Chinese martial art school or a black lady singing a Chinese song well. Would I be offend in any of this? No. I am sure you can substitute the above Chinese activities with say Japanese or Korean, it wouldn't change how other would perceive such activities.

So my question is this, does black culture appropriation only apply when you are white?

I think your experiences mirror my own, although I was born in NA. I didn't really see anything wrong with cultural appropriation, because it didn't really affect me in any way. I used to think, why would a black person care that white guys are entering the rap scene if I don't care that there's a move called American Ninja starring a white guy (terrible analogy). But I think now it's important to recognize that some people are affected, and to try and understand why they are affected.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You haven't noticed a trend in why certain threads blow up so quickly?

Obviously, if everyone here agrees with the OP, there's not much to say except "Yep." "I agree." "Good post." etc.

There's not even something to gather around and turn into a villain in this thread, yet. If OP posted examples of cultural appropriation, with pictures and click baity titles, or even just specific stuff, then yeah you'd have a rush of people initially reacting to the pictures, and then another few people disagreeing, and then a shouting match of 15 or so pages between those groups.

But, a post like this is more a (very good) lecture, and one of the posts here that MIGHT have been able to troll the thread into emotion just got banned. Little snarky posts, of course, will help discussion along, but it may not pertain to the topic anymore (since there's little to be actually snarked upon there).

Of course, my responding to the post I did, and your quoting me, and my response to you, is moving the thread along, so if it's getting bumped for the sake of people reading the OP that's not a problem at all imo, but it always runs the risk of people focusing on interactions like these and not OP's point.

I read his post in that thread and I re-read it here. There wasn't anything for me to contribute.

I don't think it's about people agreeing as much as there not being an easy target to make a snap judgment on and use to shrug off everything. The reaction to box braid girl was easy to latch on to as a way to discredit those opinions. This thread requires actual reading, understanding, and awareness of a complicated subject, so the people posting will generally be those who are actually trying instead of those showing up to drop drive-by dismissals.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Thanks for this topic. It's truly eye-opening.

One thing confused me, though. Were you equating the whites marching with MLK and taking part in the #BlackLivesMatter movement to the father or the sibling? I honestly wasn't sure, and I thought you meant the sibling, but moving straight to the mother made me think you might have meant they were the father. I'd hate to think white people trying to work for civil rights and against institutional racism are misguided or worse, nor would I understand why, and I apologize for sounding like an idiot by even asking, since you probably did mean they were the sibling. If not, could you elaborate on that?

 

[Trojita]

Thanks Angelus, the OP is a very articulated argument. I can totally empathize where you are coming from up to the point of cultural appropriation.

First of all, I am an Asian and I wasn't born and raise in NA. My family move to NA when I was in junior high school. I have spent more time in my life living in NA than where I was born. For the past 8 years, I am living in California.

My gut reaction of seeing a white girl with a well done box braid is that she looks different than most of her friends because it is just different than the norm. Nothing racial would come to my mind. It is the same effect of seeing a black man doing really good Wing Chun at a Chinese martial art school or a black lady singing a Chinese song well. Would I be offend in any of this? No. I am sure you can substitute the above Chinese activities with say Japanese or Korean, it wouldn't change how other would perceive such activities.

So my question is this, does black culture appropriation only apply when you are white?

I think your experiences mirror my own, although I was born in NA. I didn't really see anything wrong with cultural appropriation, because it didn't really affect me in any way. I used to think, why would a black person care that white guys are entering the rap scene if I don't care that there's a move called American Ninja starring a white guy (terrible analogy). But I think now it's important to recognize that some people are affected, and to try and understand why they are affected.

I think it is different with African American culture because of mixture of history and things going on in society today. Generally Asian things are not seen by a portion of the American population as bad or subpar. No one is busting on Wu Tang for appropriating Asian culture. This is what black people have a problem with. Something is seen by society as bad until a white person does it, and now it is "good" or "acceptable.. Black people would rather these cultural ideas be exemplified as beautiful about a black person.

 

[Mrs. Manky]

Thank you Angelus.

Black men aren't forcing their views on hair on black women any more or less than black women are forcing their views on hair on black men. And these views have been shaped by racism and the mainstream culture.

 

[CapNBritain]

I think it is different with African American culture because of mixture of history and things going on in society today. Generally Asian things are not seen by a portion of the American population as bad or subpar. No one is busting on Wu Tang for appropriating Asian culture. This is what black people have a problem with. Something is seen by society as bad until a white person does it, and now it is "good" or "acceptable.. Black people would rather these cultural ideas be exemplified as beautiful about a black person.

I also think that the Asian population is very fragmented, both between many different cultures and different generations. The African-American community is mainly comprised of people who have roots extending back decades and feel the brunt of America's history. Many Asians are actually new immigrants to the US and feel a disconnect to any history their specific culture may have in the US, if there is any at all.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The invocation of cultural appropriation is not saying white people can't do certain things or participate in a particular culture. It's the acknowledgement that society marginalizes and exploits certain demographics while profiting off of ideas or customs cultivated by said group of people. It's the affirmation that their identity has been fought for, and will not be subverted by careless interests. It's also the expression of frustration when features exhibited by a minority demographic are chastised, while those same features are expressed by white people to greater fanfare.

Cultural appropriation, or claims there of, have been used in order to justify attacks on otherwise well meaning people. All sorts of valid ideas have been used less than graciously, and the fact that cultural appropriation is no different does not undermine the feelings it conveys.

All that being said, here are some fine posts from the other thread that will be just as relevant here:

My problem with cultural appropriation arguments, specifically the recent surge of them, is that they warp what the term means in order to attack white people for "stealing." Nor do I have much respect for the view that somehow a white person wearing braids or making hip hop music "oppresses" black people.

I understand being upset about various appropriated things being hailed as "new" or refreshing, as if white people created them. But I rarely blame white artists for this, or the little white girl with box braids. She didn't set out to steal anything, nor did she claim she created box braids. Likewise Eminem has never claimed he is doing anything new, in fact he has acknowledged his influences on multiple occasions. And while Iggy Azelia hasn't acknowledged much of anything, she hasn't claimed to have invented hip hop or came up with a style entirely on her own either.

My annoyance tends to lie with media and fans. As an example: every Eminem related thread on this forum results in a variety of corny white posters appearing to hail Eminem as the greatest rapper ever, while bragging about their disinterest in the genre outside of him...because he is the "only" rapper not rapping about drugs, ghettos, gangs, etc. Media wise, I understand why a white face is often needed to mainstream something: white people remain the majority. Yet I'm still dismayed at how casually people dismiss black artists while praising white artists making similar (or substantially worse) art.

Another problem I have with the mischaracterization of cultural appropriation is the attempt to label things "black culture" that aren't black culture. Miley Cyrus twerking has nothing to do with stealing black culture. Twerking is southern strip club "culture," can we please stop trying to generalize that bullshit as "black" culture. I would argue the same can be applied to the recent surge of appreciation for large asses. Last time I checked, big asses have been popular in South America for decades as well. But I wouldn't call big ass appreciation "Brazilian culture" anymore than we should call it "black culture" in the US.

 

[HolyBaikal]

I'm reviving another thread, and I hope that's okay. I wanted to post in this thread...

I think that there is some reason for concern about cultural appropriation. Some people.... well, imitation isn't always the most sincere form of flattery. Sometimes imitation is mocking someone.

But I also think that some people take it too far, and do real harm. Like with the poor girl in this thread. To me, that was too sad. The poor girl didn't deserve that done to her.

We're also never going to change standards of beauty if we tell people that only one race can have a certain kind of look. I want to live in a world where black hair is considered beautiful. And I don't think that calling something appropriation, when it's appreciation, is going to help.

We should focus more on the the problems leading to this, not so much people imitating others. Like representation. There needs to be more representation for people of colour, and well characters and not bad stereotypes, in Hollywood.

The answer to unfair cultural exchanges is not separation. And that's what I feel like some people who say something is cultural appropriation are helping to do. To create more separation between people, to me, is the saddest thing.

I'm tired of culture flowing in one direction. Usually it's American and Western European culture and pop culture. But that's never going to change if too many people call the reverse of the flow of culture in the direction it is, cultural appropriation and discouraging it.

I believe that the cultures of the world belong to everyone, the human race. And the spread of culture, not just Hollywood or American culture, or something like that, is the most beautiful thing.