BravesCountry
Banned
It's almost like there are different levels of competition and you're being purposely obtuse.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Splatoon 2 is absolutely STUFFED with bizarre design decisions
- Thread starter Mr.Fletcher
- Start date
It's almost like there are different levels of competition and you're being purposely obtuse.
royox
Member
The other poster was saying that Turf Wars was not about team 1 competing against team 2 but people just painting walls for fun
BravesCountry
Banned
They were saying it was more of a casual mode mostly for fun. Winning or losing matters but to a much lesser extent.
You can build strawmen about painting walls all day, just further reinforces what you're doing.
royox
Member
That makes their statement about the "unfairness" of friends teaming up even weaker doncha think?
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Rainbow Six Siege is one of the most technical and complicated multiplayer game around and it lets you customize your loadout before each round.
Mario Kart 8 on WiiU didnt let you customize your loadout in a lobby either until MK8Deluxe.
Mario Kart 8 on WiiU didnt let you customize your loadout in a lobby either until MK8Deluxe.
ElephantShell
Banned
The mode/map rotation thing sucks for people who can't just pick up the game to play at any time.
Some people have like an hour to play video games each night due to work or family or whatever, and if the maps or modes you want to play aren't available at that time, it's kind of a bummer.
Some people have like an hour to play video games each night due to work or family or whatever, and if the maps or modes you want to play aren't available at that time, it's kind of a bummer.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Here's another one. When you play Salmon Run and unlock stuff as you progress, it's not actually clear how to redeem the unlock. You shouldn't have to redeem the unlock! It should be automatic for christ sake. You actually have to go to a stand outside on the hub, and the game at no point tells you this. I had to google this. That says it all.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I think the developers are trying to encourage players to explore the hub. Not saying that's a good reason, but since I naturally want to explore every area, I never even considered this to be an issue. I found out how to redeem rewards in Salmon Run before I played my first match. A couple other users couldn't figure out how to access the single player campaign, which is baffling to me, but I guess I'm just wired differently. I like looking around hub worlds.
This one definitely falls more on the side of bad game design, but i think it's a Japanese joke about pachinko parlors and how you never redeem your rewards there in the same building that you earned them (which is to skirt Japanese gambling laws. You don't pay money and win money, you pay money and win tokens which a completely separate business will buy for money).
So it's a joke on Grizzco being a grey-market, fly-by-night operation because Grizz won't or can't even pay you in the same location as he employs you
OrbitalBeard
Member
Interesting! That's kind of neat, even if it's not great game design lol
BravesCountry
Banned
Possibly so? But that wasn't what I was talking about.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I think it's an ok idea for that to be the goal but the problem is that there's too much noise in the hub. In website terms, there are no clear "calls to action" because everything looks like a call to action. There are characters everywhere that are just other players and muddy up who is actually a vendor, and everything is bright and colorful making it hard for even the stores to really standout. I didn't notice the food truck behind me until I saw an article about that one easy ticket you can get in the second world and it pointed it out. I barely noticed the ability scrubber vendor until I found out that was something you could do and went looking for them (I ran past her/him a couple times until I realized the single eye). Marin jumps in to the grate entrance for the single player campaign pretty far away and amidst a crowd of moving NPCs making it not quite as noticeable as it should be for a major component of the game (either she shouldn't jump down until you get closer or the camera should have zoomed in on her the first time). Basically there's too much visual noise which looks great but at the expense of being able to naturally draw your attention anywhere specific outside of a few things like the main online lobby.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Regarding Splatoon 2's hub, I agree with you. It's too dense. The first game's hub handled this better.
I think Splatoon 1 was really just a better game overall, to be frank. Salmon Run is the only part of Splatoon 2 I find to be better than the first game and that's simply because it didn't exist in that title.
I do admit that is an exception. Hedlok is super fun.
Yet another baffling decision courtesy of this thread: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1413789
The game runs at 16hz tickrate, which is way too slow for any online game that's anywhere near as fast paced as this. That will kill the game's potential as an esport if not fixed, if any of the other decisions don't already. It also leads to an objectively poorer gameplay experience.
(Check the actual thread for a more detailed explanation)
The game runs at 16hz tickrate, which is way too slow for any online game that's anywhere near as fast paced as this. That will kill the game's potential as an esport if not fixed, if any of the other decisions don't already. It also leads to an objectively poorer gameplay experience.
(Check the actual thread for a more detailed explanation)
Renegade Frost
Banned
Mhm. COD does this too actually, its kinda annoying
Lmao Splatoon 1.5 really would have been better huh?
You can customize your loadouts in the lobby in splatoon already bro.
matchmaking is a different thing hto
lobby in all other shooters refers to the MM screen immediately before/after games, where you see everyone you're fighting and where you're waiting for the next round to start (in a lobby)
menu is what everyone else calls what splatoon calls a lobby, where you select what you want to do and what mode, etc
When people say 'join my lobby' or 'im already in a lobby' they mean this, not the multiplayer mode select menu
Reptars Revenge
Member
Wow fuck whoever said it was easy to unlock league play so you can play with friends. I am stuck in ranked play at C-, none of my teams are even playing the objective. The opposing team had the rainmaker back at our base and they are painting the other side of the map.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Why can't you skip the map update cutscenes...
Ah that makes sense. I've still played way to many games where the percentage of the map covered isn't close to 50/50 and the winning team wins by 15% more more.
Welp the stupidness just got me today, I came on Splatoon earlier played some turf war before dinner, saw Salmon run was open. So after dinner and a movie I come back to play Salmon run and the thing is closed WTF, it doesnt even stay open all day on the days its open.
I had the game since launch and only played Salmon run one time
I had the game since launch and only played Salmon run one time
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I'll repeat myself: you can't change loadouts in the lobby.
lobby in all other shooters refers to the MM screen immediately before/after games, where you see everyone you're fighting and where you're waiting for the next round to start (in a lobby)
menu is what everyone else calls what splatoon calls a lobby, where you select what you want to do and what mode, etc
When people say 'join my lobby' or 'im already in a lobby' they mean this, not the multiplayer mode select menu
Thank you.
Impressive how questioning Nintendo's design decisions can get people to sound like Jack Thompson.
Im saving this for future use.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Pissed me off... went to play Salmon run at 6:35... ended at 7:00pm. Fuck you!!!
Astral Dog
Member
Probably because its a fresh team doing a new series
Wait...did he not know what lobbies actually are?
Uno Venova
Banned
Yeah I'm too used to multiplayer on the 'HD twins" just working to put up with this, I'll most likely be passing on this game.
Would certainly support that theory that many Splatoon fans haven't played other competitive shooters.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Well, that's probably true, since a lot of Splatoon players are children.
Edit - Ok, to be fair, lots of CoD players are children too!
Seriously, thank you. I've brought up my disdain for the League restriction several times (here and reddit) and there's always somebody that either trivializes the requirement, or says that people that aren't at least "mediocre" shouldn't have access.
The first time I jumped into Ranked I'll admit I wasn't the best, but I lost 9 of 10 games, and usually it was one person on the other side who was just wrecking our team. The following day I ended up winning 7 of 10, but I'm still not at B-. That's around 2 hours of sitting playing this game, still not eligible to play that particular mode in Ranked. I'll have to repeat this process at least 2 more times just to open up playing as a team with my friend.
Ranked should have zero bearing on League, but this game just don't give a fuck.
Which is fine, and drive home the point that Splatoon is its own beast. If you want to play a competitive shooter that provides high level play, well integrated team/squad/clan support and comms, or is a proven eSport, there are a gazzilion options out there for you already.
Splatoon is about having fun. The game is more about painting floors than killing opponents. I'm convinced that a bunch of the designs that are being critisised are not due to Nintendo being idiots or not understanding competive shooters, but the fact that they're positioning Splatoon as something different. A game designed for casual and young players. The polar opposite to the likes of SFV that eschewed a casual audience to only focus on the dot-within-a-dot of the FGC competitive players.
As for things like the tick rate, how many other online shooters have to contend with the fact they can be played over 3G/4G hotspots. Again, the vast, vast majority of the player base aren't using wired LANs to reduce latency, but using their Switch whenever and wherever to have fun.
Splatoon 2 is the first shooter that my 5yo has ever played. My 8yo played the first,and aside from that, the only other shooter he'd played was PvZ Garden Warfare 2, a very similar game in tone and audience to Splatoon, but without the young player safety net of removed voice comms and in came messaging.
Please.
See:
Switch Reveal Trailer - Highlighting it in a very esports-like setting
E3 Splatoon 2 Invitational - Showcased along with ARMS and Pokken Tournament in a competitive setting.
Also the following from a Q&A with the Producer:
And please, don't stop after he mentions that they didn't have esports in mind, because the words that follow imply that the team was not thinking about "esports" as a concept, but they were thinking about highly competitive play.
Source
pretty done
Member
Absolutely insane. This is not the way to attempt to keep playlists populated.
Imagine if CoD (or literally any non-Nintendo game) forced you to play stupid ass modes you don't want to and lock you out of the ones you do. No one would be putting up with that on PS/XB, and certainly no one would actually be defending the company that made such a baffling decision. This thread is some next level defense force ish.
SuperPac
Member
Regarding opening League since you mention having to repeat the process 2 more times, you only have to get to B- in one of the game types to open up League in all the game types. I jumped from C to a B- with one of my level-ups. If youre not having much success in ranked, maybe think about some ways to vary up your strategy?
What, lol? You think that young kids and casual players have clans and headsets and squad tactics and shit? No, they just play for fun. Like painting the maps and then playing dress ups with new gear.
Also, the fact that teams aren't made up of clans who are voice chatting and more often than not 4 individuals doing their own things certainly helps balance the games out for casual players. There is nothing fun about getting destroyed by another team if you're just trying to have fun and playing by yourself.
The fact that Turf War still rewards you for losing means that the competitive aspect of the game is vastly reduced. You can still level up, get gold for gear etc and lose every game. Ranked mode is there for people to take it more seriously, away from the main mode of the game.
I absolutely defend that lack of voice chat in game. It was the best decision in the first one, and the much derided method to have voice chat in the second one is fine as it makes the base game completely casual friendly and shields from competitive toxic behaviours that in endemic in all other online games.
It seems to me that as long as you play ranked and do alright you will go straight from C- to B-. Ended up going from C- to B- on all 3 modes and it seems I think requires 5-6 wins to get there, some I even lost a few games to where I had two cracks in my bar, yet still skipped C and C+. They should have just allowed league right when you unlock rank to play with friends, but it really isn't too bad to unlock it, unless you just somehow have really bad luck through all 3 modes
Really? This is good news. I was definitely misinformed. I still dislike that they've set a restriction, but your post has given me some motivation to try again (and convince my friend to do the same).
As for changing up my strategy, I've no doubt I'd make it to the B rankings if I played again today, but that doesn't change that I've already invested several hours into getting it. Life is busy - I'd rather get straight to playing with friends with the time I have.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Plenty of games provide methods of shielding competitive toxic behaviors - it's called mute. Default mute or voice chat being locked down by parental controls should be sufficient. I've never understood this argument for something that's optional. If you put the VC of an existing competitive game on mute, would that game be inherently more "toxic" than one that had no voice chat to begin with? I think not.
A lot of competitive people will always have the intention of trash talking, and if the game provides no other way to demonstrate their toxic behavior (e.g. squatting, cry-face-emotes like Clash Royale, etc), then muting voice chat does the job.
Why did you immediately go full eports due to playing with friends? No, they don't need to be in a clan or even really working together, young people still would want to play with their friends for the sake of...well, playing with friends being fun, instead of being solitary, but if they would want to do that they have to atleast initially get somewhat 'good' to get the honor of unlocking basic functionality.
There is nothing wrong with aiming a game at a certain crowd, Nintendo does it a lot. But when it comes to the bigger detriment of others is when it sticks out in a poor fashion.
This userbase that takes the game more seriously wouldn't have to impact casual modes at all either, as like any other mathmaking based game it would just pair groups together so a bunch of randoms having fun aren't ever against an actual coordinated squad.
And there IS voice chat in the game, the actual process is just so bad nobody would want to use it. It's deterred by being bad instead of being a genuine act of not being implemented at all.
That's what Splatoon 2 has done. Make the default game completely safe from voice chat toxicity but offer a method for adults/parents to use it if required.
Likewise, the complete lack of in-game emotes prevent any type of harassment, trash talking, bullying etc. Its to be applauded in such a child friendly game.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
The Switch has the best parent controls of any device in my household. Way better that the awful, halfarsed shit of iOS, and much better than WiiU/PS3/PS4.
It is a good thing to have a game that my kids want to play that I know they can play with complete safety. I'm well aware of how to implement and use parental controls, and turn them on whenever they're offered, but not having to do so is the best option.
Are you all really bemoaning the fact that you can't trash talk, grief, teabag or harass other Splatoon players? Players who might very well be young kids? If you want to shit talk with your fiends, use the voice app or Skype or Hangouts or Discord or any other freely available method that adults will have access to. Everyone else can play without having to worry about that shit.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
The online app as it stands is far from ideal, sure, but conceptually its fine. Voice comms or party systems don't have to be on the console itself.
Personally, it is a good thing that with the Switch and Nintendo games, I have a system and software that I know if safe for my kids to play on. It's a ball ache to set up my PC in a way that I feel comfortable for my eldest to play Minecraft on. He has to play it under supervision with me taking a keen interest in anything online/server related to ensure his safety. Same deal with iPads and PS4. Their limited parental controls and range of software only go so far in protecting from toxic behaviour.
I don't have any worries about my boys playing ARMS, MK8, Splatoon 2 on the Switch. None whatsoever.