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Splinter Cell Conviction Demo Impressions
- Thread starter JambiBum
- Start date
Shake Appeal
Member
If this is what the SC:C team thinks "perfect stealth" is, they need to be taken off all future Splinter Cell projects.Mad Max said:
â Narayan
Member
Yeah. :|Y2Kev said:
At this point, Splinter Cell is a dead franchise even when this game comes out.Shake Appeal said:
a Master Ninja
Member
Does the demo force you to mark and execute those guys before continuing?Y2Kev said:
I was very down on the game after playing the demo last night, but these videos give me some hope.
Yeah, you're always forced to kill the first 3 guys as part of the tutorial.
That "perfect stealth" video did show a few paths I wasn't aware of which lets you avoid a bunch of enemies. But he had to resort to gadgets to stun enemies in order to pass them several times, that's not really showing the game is designed for stealth. Impressive run though.
That "perfect stealth" video did show a few paths I wasn't aware of which lets you avoid a bunch of enemies. But he had to resort to gadgets to stun enemies in order to pass them several times, that's not really showing the game is designed for stealth. Impressive run though.
CrazedArabMan
Member
S1kkZ said:
Shhh... Don't tell him the truth, he may get confused.
Syracuse022
Member
Okay, that was fucking awesome. Thanks for sharing the link. Damn. Any idea how long that playthrough would have taken without the "fast forward" ellipsis effect they did to make the video shorter?TheLegendary said:
I think it's for TV with really deep black levels. I tried it on mine and I literally can't see shit in dark areas in any game. I think I have it on moderate and shadows actually look like shadows. Not pits of pure darkness you can't see into.DrBo42 said:
Just preordered with release date delivery from Amazon and it's still cheaper then in-store. $57.
TheLegendary
Member
Syracuse022 said:
Good question. It's tough to tell. If I had to guess it's about 15-20 minutes but that's completely out of my ass. It's likely that they've reduced mission times from previous games though. Which does suck. I'd prefer less "levels" but more continuous/progressive missions in a larger (if even linear) environment rather than short bursts. But it looks like that's not what they're going for.
Glad the video helped you. Obviously we have limited samples, but that video that along with the original E3 walkthrough suggests that the level design, pacing and game "feel" has not changed as drastically as some people believe. Although the way they played the E3 walkthrough was extremely action based the level design suggested that there was plenty of room for freedom to remain hidden. The demo did not seem to be that way, again because enemy placement was adjusted to be more of a tutorial (according to Joystiq). The game will clearly be quicker paced so it won't be exactly like the old games...but based on the info we have (and it's worth repeating the fact that Ubisoft has CONFIRMED that you can go through every mission without killing anyone except mission critical people), it's safe to assume Conviction does not throw away stealth entirely.
But based on people's reactions you'd think that it has.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
I guess those idiots at Ubi should have produced a better demo then. Might work better than them CONFIRMING that blah blah. After this generation, I don't trust Ubi one bit.
I think you are missing the point. I understand it's part of the demo. That it's part of the demo at all is why people are (getting) a little agitated. Might it change for the final game? Sure. But I'm only judging a demo video.CrazedArabMan said:
And you are kind of rude.
CrazedArabMan
Member
Y2Kev said:
I know, but I am getting agitated by most people saying how bad this game is based on this demo (when the demo, once you get the hang of it, is quite enjoyable). I've seen too many posts just putting the game down hard, and it is getting a tad annoying, so sorry if I'm coming off a little bit angry sounding.
TheLegendary
Member
Y2Kev said:
You don't understand why they might put it there as part of a tutorial to teach you how to use the gameplay mechanics (how to kill enemies)? Again, according to the Joystiq video, they adjusted the this demo to be tutorial-like when in actuality it's part of a mission later on in the game. The level structure is essentially the same but the enemy placement and some of the contextual events are different.
Not a problem.CrazedArabMan said:
TheLegendary said:
Of course I understand why it might be there. But what am I supposed to think? I'm just judging what's in front of me. I'm open to the possibility that things change, of course. I'm not really judging anything other than Ubisoft calling it "perfect stealth." It's not. And, you do have to forgive me, it's Ubisoft in 2010 and I'm skeptical. If you're not, then you shouldn't let me bug you.
I'm a very big fan of the Splinter Cell series and I want this one to be very good. I think I've been pretty consistent in my criticisms of what I've seen (primarily, of course) and played.
TheLegendary
Member
Y2Kev said:
You have every right to be concerned. Ubi PR has done a breathtakingly shitty job at selling this game imo. They want to push the action aspects, and that's fine...but you need to do a better job assuring your diehard fans that the game they know and love is still somewhat intact.
If you havent watched the video I've linked about 100 times, check this one out. It's an ACTUAL stealth gameplay video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fwF3A4FNHM&feature=player_embedded
That along with re-watching the E3 walkthrough assuaged some of my concerns about the game. The game has open environments (the "sandbox" term is even thrown in the E3 extended walkthrough although that may be exaggerated) where you can tackle it how you see fit. And Ubisoft has mostly pushed the action oriented choices. But if you rewatch the extended E3 walkthrough with Betrand commenting (can't find it now but "E3 Extended Walkthrough" on Youtube should get it for you), you can see the freedom you have to avoid a lot of the contact he was choosing to make.
And it's valid that some can look at the demo and be concerned. But it was super short and again was apparently significantly altered. It's their fault of course for releasing it if it's not representative of the final product. I personally am going to hold out hope that this is just boneheaded PR. If it was anyone but Ubisoft Montreal making this game though I might've thrown the towel in already like many others apparently have. But I have faith that they know what the fans liked and will keep them happy even if changes must be made.
bigboss370
Member
i loved the demo
day 1 buy for me.
i just hope there will be a toggle for the black&white thing as well as the sound&pointer for warnings and detection for those that don't want that.
and hoping for lots of varied environments, including daytime missions. i hope the plot is solid too.
edit: the demo was from the later parts of the game? oh no, i really hope the emp blackout explosion isn't the climax moment, they gave that away in the trailer..
day 1 buy for me. i just hope there will be a toggle for the black&white thing as well as the sound&pointer for warnings and detection for those that don't want that.
and hoping for lots of varied environments, including daytime missions. i hope the plot is solid too.
edit: the demo was from the later parts of the game? oh no, i really hope the emp blackout explosion isn't the climax moment, they gave that away in the trailer..
AltogetherAndrews
Member
CrazedArabMan said:
Why is that agitating you? Some people apparently feel that it deserves being harshly criticized, you don't. Everyone is playing the same demo. Hell, there are some dudes here who have become more critical of it after really getting the hang of the demo.
Thought the demo was awesome! I've always loved splinter cell but thought the controls were pretty janky, streamlining them really improved things IMO.
Animations are rock solid too, I love all the little details like when Sam switches cover from one side of an open door to the other, he holds on to the interior of the door to stable himself. Awesome. Climbing animation is great.
Game feels really smooth. No stutters, etc.
Graphics are pretty good, enemies look fairly sub-par for this far into the gen but I can live with it. Sam's model is great, for some reason I really love his hair, haha.
Overall, game made me feel like a badass which is all I wanted. Day 1!
Animations are rock solid too, I love all the little details like when Sam switches cover from one side of an open door to the other, he holds on to the interior of the door to stable himself. Awesome. Climbing animation is great.
Game feels really smooth. No stutters, etc.
Graphics are pretty good, enemies look fairly sub-par for this far into the gen but I can live with it. Sam's model is great, for some reason I really love his hair, haha.
Overall, game made me feel like a badass which is all I wanted. Day 1!
I have played all four (five, if you consider Xbox DA and 360 DA to be two different games, since they basically are) games in the series, and the best thing I have to say about the game is this - for the first time in this series, I don't feel like I'm fighting the controls in any way.
That's pretty fucking good - and even though I can't interrogate on will, non-lethal takedowns, the sound meter is completely gone for good, and the slow-paced, methodical pace is gone - I'm not too concerned. The biggest problem with this game ISN'T (imo) that it lacks all of these CT mechanics- it's that the AI is complete shit. When you decide to speed up the pace, and make it easier for the player to feel like a badass - it's time to stop the nerfing of your retarded AI. So while retarded AI may have worked in the context of splinter cell beforehand, acting as a kind of playing-field-leveler, balancing out the shitty controls... without better AI now, the game lacks any semblance of challenge and is just boring.
That said, holding out hope for the actual game, since I wouldn't be suprised if the AI was nerfed to get the casuals to say "OMG I'm (Jack Bauer/Jason Bourne/etc.), I feel like a badass!"
That's pretty fucking good - and even though I can't interrogate on will, non-lethal takedowns, the sound meter is completely gone for good, and the slow-paced, methodical pace is gone - I'm not too concerned. The biggest problem with this game ISN'T (imo) that it lacks all of these CT mechanics- it's that the AI is complete shit. When you decide to speed up the pace, and make it easier for the player to feel like a badass - it's time to stop the nerfing of your retarded AI. So while retarded AI may have worked in the context of splinter cell beforehand, acting as a kind of playing-field-leveler, balancing out the shitty controls... without better AI now, the game lacks any semblance of challenge and is just boring.
That said, holding out hope for the actual game, since I wouldn't be suprised if the AI was nerfed to get the casuals to say "OMG I'm (Jack Bauer/Jason Bourne/etc.), I feel like a badass!"
Solideliquid
Member
Dude. PC version is $60 on ebgames.com http://www.ebgames.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=65793
WTF it's selling for $46 on http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000U88T28/?tag=neogaf0e-20
And with all the latest DRM UBISOFT crazyness going on with Assassins Creed 2 on PC (Giantbomb cast coverage) I think I'll just go console for this one.
Just pre-ordered on Amazon for $40 ($50 Xbox version with $10 off from my GOW 3 purchase). Even though I'm not too impressed with the demo (mainly the graphics), I love the genre and I've purchased every Splinter Cell game.
WTF it's selling for $46 on http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000U88T28/?tag=neogaf0e-20
And with all the latest DRM UBISOFT crazyness going on with Assassins Creed 2 on PC (Giantbomb cast coverage) I think I'll just go console for this one.
Just pre-ordered on Amazon for $40 ($50 Xbox version with $10 off from my GOW 3 purchase). Even though I'm not too impressed with the demo (mainly the graphics), I love the genre and I've purchased every Splinter Cell game.
TheVisualizer
Banned
the walrus said:
I agree with everything you mentioned.
I also think their implementation of the "last known position" is completely broken, ive only played on normal so far but its disturbing that the guards will blindly run to your LKP, especially after they got a pretty detailed briefing in the demo about what they are up against and then proceed to stand next to your black and white silhouette and just shoot it repeatedly when you've been gone for a few minutes.
I am still getting the game, mainly for the coop stuff, but as a veteran of Tom Clancy games, Ubi completely botching a major part of the game is par for the course for the Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six games this gen
whatevermort
Member
TheLegendary said:
Based on people's reactions, you'd think the Pope would be about to issue an apology on behalf of Ubisoft.
I loved the demo. I thought it was great, showy, fun and - more importantly - fluid. It appealed to me, and I've loved every single Splinter Cell thus far. It was slightly different, yes, but I played it the same way and enjoyed it. And this demo was clearly just a small fragment of a level that actually was really quite linear, and seemed to require that you played it the way that they wanted you to. So, I'd stop worrying and bandying around statements about it being a "dead franchise" or whatever until the full game is out, and you've played more than what seems to be just a tutorial.
AgentOtaku
Member
Solideliquid said:
Yeah, thinking I'll buy the boxed PC copy off of amazon. Refuse to pay fucking $60 for a PC title (hence I haven't bought AC2 yet).
Probably gonna wait for impressions/reviews first though...
frontieruk
Member
TheLegendary said:
Not sure I've seen that quote used for single player, it was more for co-op infiltration mode (the mode you either get via ubi points, pre-order bonus or as part of the collectors edition). As to mission Critical people being the only guys getting killed are the thugs in the market level story critical as the wall projections say to kill them...
AgentOtaku
Member
Solideliquid said:
where is this?
Shake Appeal
Member
1. From the conversation Sam and Grim have at the beginning, this mission has the specific objective of not being seen. It may be one of very few levels designed with that mandate.TheLegendary said:
2. It still has the "one-button action" prompts, the projection of objectives/tips, as well as the inane "desaturate when hidden" and cover mechanics; it also provides handy objective waypoints, instead of demanding the player intelligently navigate the level using a map and their own intuition.
3. The surveillance cameras have flashlights on them, presumably so spies and secret agents sneaking through the parking garage will have an easier time spotting them!
4. This level also features this generation's favourite: chest high walls to hide behind, for no apparent reason. Although I guess a sneaking spy could use them to hide from flashlights (cameras).
5. The guards are retarded, seriously; if you did what this player does at the 1.40 mark in previous Splinter Cell games, you would be spotted and shot. The light shot at 2.35 or so would also be investigated.
6. Instead of quietly choking the guard into unconsciousness, as he would have in the other SC games, Sam chooses to noisily smash the guard's head into a wall, like some sort of vicious thug.
In just about every way, this game is dumber and more pandering than the ones that preceded it, and I would be willing to bet that when you play the full game you will discover levels like this one, designed for stealth and not flashy mark-and-execute kills, are the exception and not the rule.
Shake Appeal
Member
P.S. is anyone else amused that they got rid of light and noise meters ostensibly to declutter the HUD and simplify the gameplay, and yet now the HUD flashes more busily than ever with button prompts and waypoint markers, which as it turns out are far more "gamey" and intrusive?
I really liked the demo and I moved it from when-I-finish-BC2-and-ME2 to day1.
I tried both stealth and action way. (Old Splinter cells I always played in stealth way).
However the most fun I had when I did combination of stealt/action. It just felt right, doing what is right at the moment, trying to be stealth as long as it is advatage, but not at all cost.
I don't understand people that complain because the have to kill some gurads. You are not playing Ghandi, and you are not on the mission to make the world a better and peaceful place. You are Sam, trained agent, killer and in this instance really angry father.
Playing it completely stealth and w/o kills is as unrealistic as going in rambo. Get into a character and play it that way.
In short
I am glad how game is designed and that it is more realistic. Not a hide-and-seek simulator.
Time to evolve, people.
EDIT: My only complaints are dumb AI (at least in demo) and maybe lack of sound&light indicators
I tried both stealth and action way. (Old Splinter cells I always played in stealth way).
However the most fun I had when I did combination of stealt/action. It just felt right, doing what is right at the moment, trying to be stealth as long as it is advatage, but not at all cost.
I don't understand people that complain because the have to kill some gurads. You are not playing Ghandi, and you are not on the mission to make the world a better and peaceful place. You are Sam, trained agent, killer and in this instance really angry father.
Playing it completely stealth and w/o kills is as unrealistic as going in rambo. Get into a character and play it that way.
In short
I am glad how game is designed and that it is more realistic. Not a hide-and-seek simulator.Time to evolve, people.
EDIT: My only complaints are dumb AI (at least in demo) and maybe lack of sound&light indicators
SketchTheArtist
Member
I make my judgement around a game based on all the media that is out there and a demo is a small percentage of it. If I had played the beginning of DARKSIDERS as a demo and had to base my opinion on the ENTIRE game on that part, I wouldn't have bought it because it represents badly the entirety of the game.
A demo is a marketing tool that gets chosen, most of the time, by the marketing department of the company that is publishing the game. They want to attract as many people as possible with that promotion tool. Sometimes, a demo is representative of the entire experience of the game (Ex: Crackdown) and sometimes its not (Ex: Darksiders).
A demo is a marketing tool that gets chosen, most of the time, by the marketing department of the company that is publishing the game. They want to attract as many people as possible with that promotion tool. Sometimes, a demo is representative of the entire experience of the game (Ex: Crackdown) and sometimes its not (Ex: Darksiders).
Shake Appeal said:
Great post. I was going to point out that Grim specifically mentioned how actually being stealthy was a specific mission objective here in an earlier post, but didn't because... I actually don't know why, I guess I forgot while typing the post.
I think "pandering" is a good way to describe Conviction. It really feels like they're trying to grab the Call of Duty type audience, especially those who thought previous Splinter Cell games were too slow and boring.
Shake Appeal said:
And this is a fantastic point.
Roki6 said:
Completing a level without killing anyone was a fun challenge and satisfying to complete. It's a shame that this game was clearly not designed with that kind of run in mind like previous ones were. What's so hard to understand about that?
Always-honest
Banned
and some think it's goodHaunted said:
TheLegendary
Member
KevinCow said:
But what if Ubisoft already said you can go through the game without killing anyone besides mission critical enemies and this has been said multiple times?
:\
I appreciate Y2kev's response because they are all valid complaints about some obvious simplifications to the SC formula. But I just feel like this thread as a whole keeps going in circles with a lack of information and speculation. Myself included. And I don't think it'll get resolved until Ubi PR realizes what a clusterfuck this game's "hype" has become or we get some reviews or the game finally releases.
Prophet Steve
Member
Yeah, me too. I found the controls to be very annoying.Pandoracell said:
Booted up the demo. Expected a horrible experience based on GAF, but I had a fun time.
Graphics
Why are people calling this a "pixelated" mess? I saw no tearing, and I'm quite sensitive to tearing. Is it the next Uncharted? No, obviously not. But it's not bad to look at in any way. The lighting and atmospheric effects were well done.
Fun Stuff
- Lots of fun using the environment, multiple approaches to each situation.
- Gun mechanics feel really good.
- Shooting out lights will always be fun until the universe ends.
- The "Sam's shadow" thing where it tells you where the enemy thinks you are is awesome.
- Hanging off pipes and shooting people in the heads is fun.
Annoyances
- Ok, WTF with the black/white?? What is the point of that?
- I don't need wall high text telling me things.
Problems
- The animations are wonky. A guy will walk by me, I'll hit B to perform an execution. By the time I press B, the guy will have walked by a bit but he'll warp back to my position to fit the animation. I expected much higher quality stuff in this department. Saw a lot of wonky things.
I'm really interested to see the reviews on this one. I think campaign length will be a big deciding factor for me.
Graphics
Why are people calling this a "pixelated" mess? I saw no tearing, and I'm quite sensitive to tearing. Is it the next Uncharted? No, obviously not. But it's not bad to look at in any way. The lighting and atmospheric effects were well done.
Fun Stuff
- Lots of fun using the environment, multiple approaches to each situation.
- Gun mechanics feel really good.
- Shooting out lights will always be fun until the universe ends.
- The "Sam's shadow" thing where it tells you where the enemy thinks you are is awesome.
- Hanging off pipes and shooting people in the heads is fun.
Annoyances
- Ok, WTF with the black/white?? What is the point of that?
- I don't need wall high text telling me things.
Problems
- The animations are wonky. A guy will walk by me, I'll hit B to perform an execution. By the time I press B, the guy will have walked by a bit but he'll warp back to my position to fit the animation. I expected much higher quality stuff in this department. Saw a lot of wonky things.
I'm really interested to see the reviews on this one. I think campaign length will be a big deciding factor for me.
skyfinch
Member
RSTEIN said:
Pretty much everything you said.
Game looks pretty damn good to me. Some pretty cool cloth physics once inside the warehouse (large drapes on the ceiling).
Something that's also not mentioned are the sound effects. Practically every surface you shoot has a different sound effect, and each weapon sounds awesome, especially the shotgun.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Roki6 said:
Well, now I've read everything.
I think the Black/White is just fine. It's a way of telling you that you're hidden from the enemy and can move to cover to get closer to the enemy without getting spotted, instead of not having the filter and the enemy spots you anyways when you try to move to cover.
I do have one problem with the filter though. It's used at inappropriate times. For example, when you have to jump on the pipe to get to the next area, the filter will activate which is a bit distracting. When Sam Fisher is in transition from the current area to the next area, I don't think the filter needs to be used.
I do have one problem with the filter though. It's used at inappropriate times. For example, when you have to jump on the pipe to get to the next area, the filter will activate which is a bit distracting. When Sam Fisher is in transition from the current area to the next area, I don't think the filter needs to be used.