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[Lumine]

I can understand certain developers not programming such a feature for a PC game from the ground up, as it's probably not popular enough. However when the code already exists in the console version of your multiplatform game, then please leave it in on the PC version. Pisses me off everytime the feature gets ripped out completely, such as Borderlands. Why can't I just plug-in an a controller, hand it a second player and have the game go split-screen? Just like it does on consoles. Just as frustrating is having lost countless of hours trying to get the split-screen and controllers to work on L4D 1/2. Never quite pulled it off.

 

[The Shadow]

It's because it's assumed that most of the market are playing on small monitors at a small computer desk. Which is most likely true.

While most everyone is running consoles on a larger tv with a couch or a couple chairs for friends to play with.

PC gaming is considered online, LAN party or solo play only.

That's it in a nutshell.

The work is already done. Why not leave the option in?

Because then you have to support it, which costs time and money for a feature that probably only <1% will give a shit about.

 

[OscarMalory]

We're about to ship a game soon which supports split-screen on 360, but not on PC.

I assume we're talking here about the setup where one player uses the PC controls (mouse + keyboard), and the other uses a plugged in Xbox 360 controller.

One thing that's not zero-effort about this is the need to properly display both sets of on-screen hints ("press A to continue" vs "press Space to continue"); the other is the need to optimize/tweak the renderer for the very different workload of splitscreen - I'm glad we only have to do it for the fixed platform.

All in all, it's definitely doable, but not like flicking a switch somewhere and it magically works. But there is zero interest from publishers, and therefore the time on the (extremely tight) schedule is better spent improving the game elsewhere.

 

[coamithra]

If you compare l4d console with pc you'll see that the split screen stuff takes up quite a bit of menu realestate, more than the niche audience on pc would demand.

Since it was already in there, as you mentioned, the coders enabled access to it via the command console but putting it in properly would have required extra work that frankly wouldn't be worth it.

And this is Valve. Other devs simply take the easier route of leaving it out altogether.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Master race have no friends?

 

[Shai-Tan]

my game room has two tv's in it with two 360 and ps3 because splitscreen is terrible imo (same reason I have multiple game capable pc in the house). sure then you need to buy two copies of a game sometimes if the other person doesnt have their own but there arent that many types of games that are good for that sort of thing (what annoys me is games with split screen and no online co-op)

 

[John]

i've got nothing to add. i wanted to play k&l2 yesterday with my brother but turns out it's online only

 

[BloodySinner]

I think I'm starting to regret not buying Blur during the Steam sale.

 

[scitek]

That's it in a nutshell.



Because then you have to support it, which costs time and money for a feature that probably only <1% will give a shit about.

Then just do like Valve did with L4D, leave it in, but make people have to use console hacks to get it working. That way, many PC gamers will still be able to find and use it, and the dev doesn't have to support it due to it being "hacked". Win/win.

 

[Why would you do that?]

It irks me that Street Fighter IV has single screen gaming, yet they took it out of Resident Evil 5...

Of course, I'd prefer if they just included the feature, but if they don't want to, I like Valve's approach, too. An unsupported feature that's included if you want it.

 

[RedStep]

Master race have no friends?

It's lonely up on top.

 

[Relix]

Wait. I can play L4D1 Split Screen on PC with a few mods? Holy shit!!! :lol :lol This is a feature I want more honestly.

 

[grumble]

Wrong. Just cause split-screen gaming isn't out there for PC doesn't mean that people won't use it. Implement it well and I'll use it every day. Every time I go to my friend's place, we take turns in Battlefield or other PC titles. If there was properly implemented split-screen in PC gaming, everyone will be over it. Hell, I'll move my PC into my living room just to get 60fps, 1080p split-screen gaming.

I've always adored split-screen gaming on PC whenever it's available (lately: Ms. Pac-man via google and Audiosurf).

That doesn't mean he's wrong. He was talking about large numbers of people, not just you.

The point he was making is that there isn't really a market for it. I agree.

 

[Stallion Free]

How do you guys magically know there isn't a market for it? It's really just a lot of bullshit assumptions.

 

[scitek]

How do you guys magically know there isn't a market for it? It's really just a lot of bullshit assumptions.

Regardless, like I said, just leave it in but only accessible via hacks. The PC community will find it.

 

[plagiarize]

i have used split screen on PC. hell, it was once the case that you could get Left 4 Dead going split accross TWO monitors (though on Vista 64 bit I had to jump through a million hoops to get it working).

a lot of PC gamers have multiple monitors connected to their PCs. why not let use have a screen each? that'd be a killer PC feature.

it was awesome running left 4 dead that way.

 

[brain_stew]

Would it even take much to implement this? :\

Probably takes more effort to remove it. They've already got it up and running on their DirectX box afterall.

SEGA Racing ws one of the most barebones PC ports going (didn't even have an online mode ffs) and if a game with a miniscule budget like that can include it, then big budget stuff like the COD games can as well.

As for PC games that are good for local multiplayer? Well SEGA racing deserves another mention, especially since it lets you revert to a less complex lighting model and restrict it to 2player/3 player mode etc. This means that even old ass midrange GPUs like a 4670 can manage a locked 60fps in splitscreen but you don't need to constantly switch settings in order to make single player look pretty, which is just fantastic.

The Lego games deserve amention as well, especially since 60fps gameplay, which was always integral to the experience, has been ditched in their console iterations this generation.

 

[brain_stew]

Regardless, like I said, just leave it in but only accessible via hacks. The PC community will find it.

This is a reasonable compromise, since it removes any QA cost and those dedicated enough get to access it anyway. In fact, I'd wager this would be the cheapest option, since the code is already there in the first place.

 

[brain_stew]

Because then you have to support it, which costs time and money for a feature that probably only <1% will give a shit about.

PC games include undocumented features all the time. If its undocumented, you don't need to offer support for it on the PC SKU.

 

[-COOLIO-]

the situation should improve

 

[Snuggles]

seems like it would be a pain in the ass to drag the futon all the way over to your computer every time you want to play together

 

[Stallion Free]

seems like it would be a pain in the ass to drag the futon all the way over to your computer every time you want to play together

:lol

 

[brain_stew]

We're about to ship a game soon which supports split-screen on 360, but not on PC.

I assume we're talking here about the setup where one player uses the PC controls (mouse + keyboard), and the other uses a plugged in Xbox 360 controller.

One thing that's not zero-effort about this is the need to properly display both sets of on-screen hints ("press A to continue" vs "press Space to continue"); the other is the need to optimize/tweak the renderer for the very different workload of splitscreen - I'm glad we only have to do it for the fixed platform.

All in all, it's definitely doable, but not like flicking a switch somewhere and it magically works. But there is zero interest from publishers, and therefore the time on the (extremely tight) schedule is better spent improving the game elsewhere.

If its a console focused games then restrict the mode to pad only control. No extra code required.

As for the "tweaks" required, well either leave them out completely (we have the hardware to manage it) or just use the exact same tweaks you've created for the console version. The latter is what SEGA racing does, and like I say, that PC SKU was clearly created on the most minuscule of budgets, they couldn't even get funding for online play. If they can do it, so can you.

The QA costs are a valid reason, I won't disagree with that, but if ypu make it an undocumented feature then they go away as well. So basically, just use all the code and tweaks you've created for the console version already, don't throw them out and the job is done. I'm sure a talented coder could get this up and running within a day. No one is expecting a serious amount of effort and optimisation here, we just want you to stop chucking out the code you've already got up and running on the DirectXbox.

Edit: If there's no consumer interest, then, please, tell me why the guide to getting the undocumented splitscreen mode in L4D has nearly 1 million views on Valve's forums alone:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/search.php?searchid=8060059

So, impressing 1 million potential customers isn't worth one day's wages for a single coder, now is it? Valve didn't even dedicate any development time to this feature at all, you probably don't have to either.

 

[Flambe]

Screw split screen when they can get the second person to buy the game for retail instead =]

Especially on a platform like PC where the far majority don't have an extra gamepad.
Hell I've been PC gaming since the x286 days and haven't used a gamepad on my PC since Commander Keen and my Gravis gamepad :lol

Pretty sure most people don't have their PCs hooked up to their TV either, and if I'm going to play over there I might as well just pop out a PS3 2-player game.

 

[OscarMalory]

As for the "tweaks" required, well either leave them out completely (we have the hardware to manage it) or just use the exact same tweaks you've created for the console version.

The Xbox split-screen mode is butt-ugly, you wouldn't be too happy running it on your ultra-mega-masterrace box.

Edit: If there's no consumer interest, then, please, tell me why the guide to getting the undocumented splitscreen mode in L4D has nearly 1 million views on Valve's forums alone:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/search.php?searchid=8060059

So, impressing 1 million potential customers isn't worth one day's wages for a single coder, now is it? Valve didn't even dedicate any development time to this feature at all, you probably don't have to either.

Dude, go ask our publishers; they pay the bills, they decide what's in the box. If they pay us to add a pink elephant dancing with each split reflected in one of their eyes, so be it, we'll put it in.

For free, out of our own time - no, thanks. I work enough weekends already without adding features on top of what's contracted.

 

[SapientWolf]

Screw split screen when they can get the second person to buy the game for retail instead =]

Especially on a platform like PC where the far majority don't have an extra gamepad.
Hell I've been PC gaming since the x286 days and haven't used a gamepad on my PC since Commander Keen and my Gravis gamepad :lol

Pretty sure most people don't have their PCs hooked up to their TV either, and if I'm going to play over there I might as well just pop out a PS3 2-player game.

I'm pretty sure you can LAN play with Steam's offline mode.

 

[scitek]

For free, out of our own time - no, thanks. I work enough weekends already without adding features on top of what's contracted.

He wasn't talking about adding a feature. He's saying when the code's there to begin with, don't bother going through the trouble to actually remove it for the PC version. Just leaving it there and allowing PC modders to figure out how to access it would be less work. It would let those who are interested in split-screen to access it via console hacks or whatever like what L4D does.

 

[Basileus777]

Yeah, it'd be nice to have every feature possible, but it's hardly surprising that publishers aren't concerned with a feature that almost no one would use.

 

[Ionic]

I think we are going to see much improved PC splitscreen support in the coming years. I look at Onlive for example and see that they are pushing to make it easy to have a bunch of people playing at once with their four controller support. If services like Onlive really manage to take off, developers might very well start implementing splitscreen back into PC titles.

 

[Aon]

I keep buying console splitscreen games on the PC with the intention of inviting people around then people get over here and it has no splitscreen ><

Stop making me commit social Faux Pas!

 

[LaserBuddha]

Shut up. No one wants splitscreen.




Well, that particular segment of GAF would certainly want it. You know who I'm talking about. They only buy Nintendo hardware nowadays, only own an SDTV, dislike online mulitplayer, actually enjoy the gameplay in games like Monster Hunter, still talk about Pikmin, and go apeshit for every mascot platformer they can get their hands on. They are kind of like the Brady Bunch in the Brady Bunch movie.

I do hear that splitscreen makes all angles 50% less angular...

 

[Mr Sandman]

I'm pretty sure you can LAN play with Steam's offline mode.

So I can bring a buddy over and we can play against the bots in Black Ops using my account on his laptop? Seems kind of risky; can't they ban you for that?

 

[UrbanRats]

Damn, thankyou for making this thread, can't be said enough times!

You can hook the PC to a 32" TV, you can connect the consoles' gamepads to your PC, there is NO reason not to leave it in, if' it's already there, DAMN.
I'm forced to buy inferior versions of multiplatform games, (RE5, K&L2, and so on) just because of this, dumb reasoning.

 

[Lafiel]

So I can bring a buddy over and we can play against the bots in Black Ops using my account on his laptop? Seems kind of risky; can't they ban you for that?

Highly doubtful. Most steamworks games don't allow you to do that.

 

[Mr Sandman]

Highly doubtful. Most steamworks games don't allow you to do that.

That's what I thought. I am just trying figuring out what he meant as I am pretty curious.

 

[zoukka]

Shut up. No one wants splitscreen.

Get real friends

 

[SapientWolf]

So I can bring a buddy over and we can play against the bots in Black Ops using my account on his laptop? Seems kind of risky; can't they ban you for that?

No, you'll be in offline mode. You download the game on both PCs using the owner's account, then go to Steam->Go Offline. From there you should be able to start a LAN game (if CoD BLOPS supports LAN).

 

[Pai Pai Master]

There was a way to play L4D1 "split-screen" with 2 separate monitors. Me and my buddy would play the shit out of it this way. Not sure if it's possible or as easy in L4D2 but the method we used before didn't work at launch...but it was glorious and Valve should have made it an official feature for both games.