• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

So just finished the game.... wut. Quite a horrible ending to say the least, yes my mind was blown but that's due to how confusing the ending was. I was literally gaping as I saw Booker get killed by Elizabeths. Really? Here I was saving her and she drowns me. How this game got great scores is beyond me (alright, every other part of the game was good but the ending is also important on such a story-based game). Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after. Reminds me of the game Limbo which also had a mediocre ending.

This game is also pretty bad at explaining things. I read almost every single diary thing and always looked around the levels but still have no clue on:

1. Who the hell are those 2 people that appear at random times?
2. What is the debt that he was trying to pay off?
3. What is the bird's purpose?
4. Who made the bird?
5. Why can she open tears?
6. Is his debt paid off now?
6.2 Did I just give young Elizabeth to the debt collector?
7. How did the debt collector end up in that room?
8. Who is the debt collector?
9. When did Comstock become the prophet?
10. When was Columbia built?
11. Who built Columbia (I think it was some guy who knew quantum physics)?
12. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
13.2. Why did that happen to her?
14. Since Comstock received the child, does that mean that Elizabeth is not her daughter?
14.2 Then whose daughter is she?
15. How did I become Comstock?
16. Why did I become Comstock?
17. What did the baptism have to do with this?
18. Does this baptism have anything to do with the baptism you got at the begging of the game?
19. Who is Anna? Is she also Elizabeth?

There are probably more questions but it's 6 am here and I need to get some sleep. Stayed up all night to finish the game and was dissapointed.

Wow, that's a pretty huge amount I'll try to answer it all in as much detail as possible so hopefully it becomes clearer:

1. They are the two versions of Lutece, one a male and one a female. They are the scientists that discovered, and managed to use/create, the tears. Similarly they discovered how to make the city float.

2. The debt was gambling debt. However, this debt was paid off once he sold his daughter, Anna, to Comstock; a deal he deeply regretted. The 'debt' he mentions in the game is just a false memory due to being brought through a tear by the Luteces who offered him a chance to save Anna.

3. To protect Anna/Elizabeth.

4. Jeremiah Fink created the bird by looking through a tear. Whether or not he looked into Rapture and utilised the technology used to create the Big Daddies or not is debatable but, ultimately, irrelevant since an infinite number of universes could possess such technology.

5. "What makes the girl different? I suspect it has less to do with what she is and more to do with what she's not. A small part of her remains from where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas with its porridge." If this isn't clear, it means that the ability to create tears is generated from her simultaneous existence in two universes by her little finger being cut off as she enters the other as a child.

6. He had no 'debt' during the playable course of the game in Columbia; the debt was a false memory due to having travelled through timelines with the assistance of the Luteces. If you mean his debt during the office time period, his debt was paid off by selling Anna. After that, he didn't have debt to pay off.

6.2. That wasn't a debt collector, that was Robert Lutece. Booker agreed to pay off his debt by selling his daughter, a decision he immediately regrets.

7. Booker lets Robert (the male) Lutece into his room? We see this quite early in the game during one of the flashbacks.

8. Again, Robert Lutece, the male Lutece. One of the two Luteces that discovered tears and how to make the city float.

9. He became the prophet between 1890 and 1893.

10. Columbia was founded in 1893.

11. The Luteces created the technology that led to the creation of Columbia.

12. Comstock saw in a tear that his seed would drown in flames the mountain of man. However, Comstock was rendered sterile by the use of the tear machine and thus needed some other way to obtain his daughter. He then decided to use the tear machine to take his daughter from an alternate universe, the universe where Booker rejects baptism and thus has a daughter, Anna.

13. Basically, Comstock marries her (she is also extremely devoted to him) and becomes sterile due to the machine. Comstock murders his political opposition and she realises it which makes her question Comstock's divinity. Comstock attempted to have a child with her to allow Columbia to survive but was unable to do so due to being rendered sterile; he never realised he was sterile and asked for an affair with the female Lutece who declined. He used the Lutece's machine to take Anna, his child from an alternative universe, whose mother died during childbirth, to him. Lady Comstock made the obvious assumption that Comstock had an affair with the female Lutece and, even after they explained the reality, she could barely accept it; she concludes that Comstock is a monster. Comstock begs her for her silence since she is able to shatter the entire facade that he has created but, being both highly religious and highly moral, she cannot promise him silence (which would not lead to attonement) but only forgiveness. This promise sets into motion almost the entire chain of events as it forces Comstock to murder both her and the Luteces (which Fink attempts to make look like an accident by sabotaging the machine and trapping them in the timeline). This murder then frames Daisy Fitzroy who then leads the Vox. Basically the catalyst for a significant amount of events, particularly those related to the Vox.

In addition:
In the Booker-verse his wife dies in childbirth. In the Comstock-verse there is no childbirth to kill her. I assumed that they are the same woman in each verse. This explains why they look alike.

This also seems to be a very logical conclusion and creates an even greater irony in the chain of events surrounding Lady Comstock.

13.2. I'm not really sure I understand this question, what do you mean? The motive for Comstock murdering her? If so, it's in the previous answer.

14. Elizabeth is Comstock's daughter from another universe. Lady Comstock is not Elizabeth's daughter. However, it is possible that Elizabeth's mother in both universes is the same woman.

14.2 See previous two/three answers.

15. If Booker accepts the baptism he takes the name Zachary Hale Comstock, meets the Luteces, becomes rich, gains followers, and founds Columbia.

16. Booker that accepts the baptism gains personal redemption for the crimes that he commits. This leads to him becoming religious (but he doesn't become a moral persoon). He sets up a personality cult and founds Columbia based upon what he saw in a tear; New York being burnt to the ground in 1983 by his daughter, Elizabeth/Anna.

17. The baptism is a constant, it always happens. The choice of the baptism, acception or redemption, is a variable. The baptism decides who Booker will become; if he will become the degenerate gambler that sells of his own daughter to repay his debt and later tries to save her or if he becomes Comstock who become sterile and buys his daughter from another universe.

18. Presumably it was such an important moment for Comstock, a moment that drastically changec his life, that he made it mandatory for every citizen of Columbia.

19. Anna is Booker's daughter from the set of universes where Booker rejects baptism. Elizabeth is what Comstock named her after buying her from Booker. Yes, they are the same person.

Honestly, a lot of these are made explicitly clear within the game. If you didn't get much of the Voxophones I would highly suggest doing so and perhaps a replay may be in order.
 

DatDude

Banned
I wouldn't say that's the main theme at all. There's one choice that's key to the story: the baptism. It just isn't the player's choice.

I haven't put my finger on it yet, but redemption's a big one for me.

It's not the main theme. Redemption is for sure...that's THE theme.

consequentially, the source of this redemption naturally comes from the theme of choices.

So it all connects with each other in way or another.
 
Read this thread, and ask any questions you have regarding the ending.

Those feelings you have will no doubt turn positive in a relatively short amount of time.

I read an explanation of the ending and it makes more sense to me now. Kinda makes me wonder if they are planning any more Bioshock games. On the one hand they wrapped this game up nicely in a way which gives the series some closure and explanation. But on the other, they have created a way they could continually create games with crazy cities and for it to still remain plausible within the context of the ending of this game.
 

saunderez

Member
I wouldn't say that's the main theme at all. There's one choice that's key to the story: the baptism. It just isn't the player's choice.

I haven't put my finger on it yet, but redemption's a big one for me.
I guess when it comes down to it the story is really about the Lutece's trying to right the wrong caused by their technology. Booker is merely a tool to achieve this and Elizabeth is the ultimate skeleton key to let him achieve it.
 

DatDude

Banned
I guess when it comes down to it the story is really about the Lutece's trying to right the wrong caused by their technology. Booker is merely a tool to achieve this and Elizabeth is the ultimate skeleton key to let him achieve it.

Which, still makes it a story about Redemption.

The Lutece trying to right a fuck up they made with Booker.

Booker trying to right a fuck up he made with Elizabeth/Anna.

Redemption.
 

saunderez

Member
Which, still makes it a story about Redemption.

The Lutece trying to right a fuck up they made with Booker.

Booker trying to right a fuck up he made with Elizabeth/Anna.

Redemption.
Booker wasn't really trying to right the wrong he made with Anna though. He thought he was trying to clear a gambling debt. Kudos for him to decide to do the right thing in the end though. But yeah redemption is definitely the main theme of the Lutece's and why any of this happens.
 

vladdamad

Member
OK, so I'm trying to figure out the rules of this multiverse, because I'm finding the concept really hard to grasp. Essentially, the constants and variables thing means that certain things will stay the same no matter which universe you're in? So that kinda means that there's not really an infinite amount of universes, right? Kinda like infinity minus one, because there won't be a universe where the coin flip is tails, or a baptised Booker doesn't become Comstock?
 

DatDude

Banned
Booker wasn't really trying to right the wrong he made with Anna though. He thought he was trying to clear a gambling debt. Kudos for him to decide to do the right thing in the end though. But yeah redemption is definitely the main theme of the Lutece's and why any of this happens.

Still booker did that in order to redeem to what he did to Elizabeth/Anna in the end.

His mind was askwed thanks to the Luteces.
 

Gandie

Member
Wow not to sound rude but did you understand anything in the game afterall?

Well you got your answers but seems like you aren't a person who likes stuff which gets you thinking or doesn't lay out all answers.

You are being rude. Especially with that last part.
 
From my second playthrough:



I only noticed how much sense the ad made, after I understood the full story.

This reminds me: In the elevator ride to Soldier's Field the elevator has a malfunction and Booker tries to fix it and finds a bee in the electronics. It probably was only there so Elizabeth could demonstrate her tearing ability, but that scene struck me as very odd. A bee behind a panel... like it was planted there.
 
Where do people see the series going next?

I would like another game but I think the formula might get tired if they keep going. I think if they did do another I would be interested to see where they go with it.
 
I'm not saying they needed to do it in detail, it's just when you think about it in detail for a little bit the world-building seems to fall apart. I think the main problem with Bioshock Infinite is the whole premise (ha!). You had this cool floating city that was all intriguing to begin with. That's high concept enough. But unlike Bioshock, where the story and the setting were all poking around about choice and freedom and the ideology involved (namely, Objectivism) is all about freedom, in Infinite you have all of this quantum mechanics nonsense. It just doesn't gel together with me. Examining a hyper-jingoistic, zealous American splinter state facing a worker's revolution would be interesting enough; I'm sure all of the character drama involving DeWitt, Comstock, and Elizabeth could be made to fit that. To make it all about multiverses just seems gratuitous. What the hell does the nature of reality or fate have to do with a flying racist city. Both are fantastical enough elements but they don't fit together well enough imo

Agreed with so much of this.
 

Dr Dogg

Member
Just got to the part where Elizabeth opens up a tear to Paris and can't believe I missed this the first time but the cinema has a film playing call "La Revanche Du Jedi". Yet another 1983 tidbit. Edit: Actually hold on? Fuck... Child kills father seeking redemption. Oh there's more than meets the eye with all these small hidden pieces of information everywhere.
 

LProtag

Member
I'd like to point out that I really loved the use of God Only Knows in this game. When you first see the Barbershop Quartet I thought it was just used to emphasize the religious nature of Columbia. During the reprise in the credits though, man, it really hits on the key themes of the game.

Same thing with the use of Will the Circle be Unbroken.

Great use of music to highlight the themes.
 

Alienous

Member
ni6ZFDB.png


From reddit. I was in the majority every time. Constants and variables.

Perhaps the best decision at the raffle toss is to not do anything. To refuse to involve yourself in Columbia's politics, and justify Fink's opinion. Otherwise, yeah, the best choice is to sock the bastard.

Also, who picks the bird? There is no symbolism there. I suppose, arguably, Elizabeth is the 'escaped bird from the cage', but the bird represents Songbird more than her. The cage is the thing that she escapes from, but will always keep with her.

At the Ticketmaster, whilst I didn't draw my gun, I know I really should have. It was so clearly a set up, and a threatening position.

Finally, why the heck would people spare Slate? He was a soldier out of time, desperately hanging on to the only thing he knew. He didn't want to be locked up, he wanted to die on the battlefield.
 

Jenga

Banned
Where do people see the series going next?

I would like another game but I think the formula might get tired if they keep going. I think if they did do another I would be interested to see where they go with it.
I'd like to see it end. They took the series and did something very different, if they ended it here it would be on a high note.
 
Perhaps the best decision at the raffle toss is to not do anything. To refuse to involve yourself in Columbia's politics, and justify Fink's opinion. Otherwise, yeah, the best choice is to sock the bastard.

Also, who picks the bird? There is no symbolism there. I suppose, arguably, Elizabeth is the 'escaped bird from the cage', but the bird represents Songbird more than her. The cage is the thing that she escapes from, but will always keep with her.

At the Ticketmaster, whilst I didn't draw my gun, I know I really should have. It was so clearly a set up, and a threatening position.

Finally, why the heck would people spare Slate? He was a soldier out of time, desperately hanging on to the only thing he knew. He didn't want to be locked up, he wanted to die on the battlefield.

There is ABSOLUTELY symbolism in the 'bird' choice. Think about it...
 

Alienous

Member
No, how they actually (physically) get there.

Ah, it would seem that most of them were there when Columbia was founded, but I suppose that the lighthouse (which Comstock has controlled over) served as the travel mechanism, just like how Booker got there (it lands in a specific area, "hallelujah" etc.).
 
Wow, that's a pretty huge amount I'll try to answer it all in as much detail as possible so hopefully it becomes clearer:

1. They are the two versions of Lutece, one a male and one a female. They are the scientists that discovered, and managed to use/create, the tears. Similarly they discovered how to make the city float.

2. The debt was gambling debt. However, this debt was paid off once he sold his daughter, Anna, to Comstock; a deal he deeply regretted. The 'debt' he mentions in the game is just a false memory due to being brought through a tear by the Luteces who offered him a chance to save Anna.

3. To protect Anna/Elizabeth.

4. Jeremiah Fink created the bird by looking through a tear. Whether or not he looked into Rapture and utilised the technology used to create the Big Daddies or not is debatable but, ultimately, irrelevant since an infinite number of universes could possess such technology.

5. "What makes the girl different? I suspect it has less to do with what she is and more to do with what she's not. A small part of her remains from where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas with its porridge." If this isn't clear, it means that the ability to create tears is generated from her simultaneous existence in two universes by her little finger being cut off as she enters the other as a child.

6. He had no 'debt' during the playable course of the game in Columbia; the debt was a false memory due to having travelled through timelines with the assistance of the Luteces. If you mean his debt during the office time period, his debt was paid off by selling Anna. After that, he didn't have debt to pay off.

6.2. That wasn't a debt collector, that was Robert Lutece. Booker agreed to pay off his debt by selling his daughter, a decision he immediately regrets.

7. Booker lets Robert (the male) Lutece into his room? We see this quite early in the game during one of the flashbacks.

8. Again, Robert Lutece, the male Lutece. One of the two Luteces that discovered tears and how to make the city float.

9. He became the prophet between 1890 and 1893.

10. Columbia was founded in 1893.

11. The Luteces created the technology that led to the creation of Columbia.

12. Comstock saw in a tear that his seed would drown in flames the mountain of man. However, Comstock was rendered sterile by the use of the tear machine and thus needed some other way to obtain his daughter. He then decided to use the tear machine to take his daughter from an alternate universe, the universe where Booker rejects baptism and thus has a daughter, Anna.

13. Basically, Comstock marries her (she is also extremely devoted to him) and becomes sterile due to the machine. Comstock murders his political opposition and she realises it which makes her question Comstock's divinity. Comstock attempted to have a child with her to allow Columbia to survive but was unable to do so due to being rendered sterile; he never realised he was sterile and asked for an affair with the female Lutece who declined. He used the Lutece's machine to take Anna, his child from an alternative universe, whose mother died during childbirth, to him. Lady Comstock made the obvious assumption that Comstock had an affair with the female Lutece and, even after they explained the reality, she could barely accept it; she concludes that Comstock is a monster. Comstock begs her for her silence since she is able to shatter the entire facade that he has created but, being both highly religious and highly moral, she cannot promise him silence (which would not lead to attonement) but only forgiveness. This promise sets into motion almost the entire chain of events as it forces Comstock to murder both her and the Luteces (which Fink attempts to make look like an accident by sabotaging the machine and trapping them in the timeline). This murder then frames Daisy Fitzroy who then leads the Vox. Basically the catalyst for a significant amount of events, particularly those related to the Vox.

In addition:


This also seems to be a very logical conclusion and creates an even greater irony in the chain of events surrounding Lady Comstock.

13.2. I'm not really sure I understand this question, what do you mean? The motive for Comstock murdering her? If so, it's in the previous answer.

14. Elizabeth is Comstock's daughter from another universe. Lady Comstock is not Elizabeth's daughter. However, it is possible that Elizabeth's mother in both universes is the same woman.

14.2 See previous two/three answers.

15. If Booker accepts the baptism he takes the name Zachary Hale Comstock, meets the Luteces, becomes rich, gains followers, and founds Columbia.

16. Booker that accepts the baptism gains personal redemption for the crimes that he commits. This leads to him becoming religious (but he doesn't become a moral persoon). He sets up a personality cult and founds Columbia based upon what he saw in a tear; New York being burnt to the ground in 1983 by his daughter, Elizabeth/Anna.

17. The baptism is a constant, it always happens. The choice of the baptism, acception or redemption, is a variable. The baptism decides who Booker will become; if he will become the degenerate gambler that sells of his own daughter to repay his debt and later tries to save her or if he becomes Comstock who become sterile and buys his daughter from another universe.

18. Presumably it was such an important moment for Comstock, a moment that drastically changec his life, that he made it mandatory for every citizen of Columbia.

19. Anna is Booker's daughter from the set of universes where Booker rejects baptism. Elizabeth is what Comstock named her after buying her from Booker. Yes, they are the same person.

Honestly, a lot of these are made explicitly clear within the game. If you didn't get much of the Voxophones I would highly suggest doing so and perhaps a replay may be in order.


Huge thanks to you for this. Explained a lot of questions I had.
 

antitrop

Member
Oh my God I was in the minority on every single decision. WTF

How could people not allow Slate a soldier's death? I'll admit I threw the ball at the couple just to take the piss and see what would happen.
 
Haha I was thinking the same thing at that point.

"Wait a minute they're wrecking new york with...blimps? Where the fuck are our jets?"

It was a tiny glimpse of the future. I have no doubt that if that passage would have come to play that Elizabeth would have made sure that America holds no defense against them.
 

Riposte

Member
Oh my God I was in the minority on every single decision. WTF

How could people not allow Slate a soldier's death? I'll admit I threw the ball at the couple just to take the piss and see what would happen.

I threw the ball at the couple because I was thinking it was a small price to pay to keep my cover. However the game was like "lol no".

Needless to say, I stopped caring about choices from that moment forward. Not really much to do anyway.
 

Eusis

Member
I do think it seems likely she got wrecked shortly afterwards, ESPECIALLY if the visions were only showing New York. Moreso because they lose their greatest scientific minds that had made their feats impossible, so how far were they going to successfully advance anyway?

Of course I wouldn't be surprised that for her it was just an angry lashing out at the world with a desire to get herself killed, thus assaulting New York... and likely shot down very fast for it. Almost like suicide by cop really, just involving entire cities and armies.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Well yeah, they had blimps and airships. They also had an entire flying city likely armed to the teeth and suspended in by quantum mumbo jumbo, biomechanical monstrosities, technologies from other eras, and an army headed by a demi-god who can rip holes in the fabric of space time. I suspect they would have done okay.
 

Anno

Member
I am surprised that so many people spared Slate. The others I can see going either way, though I was personally in the minority in all of them except for the first.
 
Where do people see the series going next?

I would like another game but I think the formula might get tired if they keep going. I think if they did do another I would be interested to see where they go with it.

I think Levine and Irrational want it to end.
The ending about how there'll always be a lighthouse, a man and a city to me sounds like they want a departure from the Bioshock formula. "Sometimes something's different yet the same." The subtitle "Infinite" also hints at that I think.

It would be fitting to end the Bioshock series at the end of the current console generation.
I'd like Irrational to do something new. Hopefully with gameplay that's not purely about shooting other people.

If they do another Bioshock game my guess is something like a space station (or on Mars or the Moon) that was built in the 70s or something as a response to the possibility of a nuclear war that could wipe out life everywhere, even at the bottom of the ocean and in the sky. But again, I doubt it, because of all the parallel universe and time travel stuff in Infinite.
 

Anno

Member
I think I have to play the old Liz part again. Is it explained why she would attack the mainland?

"The inmates were running the asylum", she says. Columbia's religious zealotry virtually guaranteed that the prophecy would come to pass and America would be cleansed, for what is Columbia but not a different Ark for a different time?
 

Eusis

Member
Well yeah, they had blimps and airships. They also had an entire flying city likely armed to the teeth and suspended in by quantum mumbo jumbo, biomechanical monstrosities, technologies from other eras, and an army headed by a demi-god who can rip holes in the fabric of space time. I suspect they would have done okay.
In addition to my points above, wasn't it noted that her powers were drastically weakened? And you did OK facing them in the modern-ish time still, although you did have vigors.

The more I think about it, if you were in charge of Columbia and wanted it completely and utterly destroyed the best way probably would be to get enough of a force to pose a serious threat, but not enough to actually survive the backlash from leveling a city.
 

BigDes

Member
Oh my God I was in the minority on every single decision. WTF

How could people not allow Slate a soldier's death? I'll admit I threw the ball at the couple just to take the piss and see what would happen.

Slate sent wave after wave of his men at me when all he needed to do was hand over a potion, I was not inclined to give him what he wanted.
 
Eh.

It was no primer.

I appreciated the narrative on a sort of technical level, but didn't enjoy the ending at all. I was going along with it when they revealed her to be your daughter, but right at the end when you turned out to be Comstock I full on burst out laughing. I think the plot was all much stronger and more enjoyable prior to the closing 90 minutes or so.

There was something about all the reality shifting that bothered me throughout most of the game, but didn't really come to a head and really irk me until the end. After reflecting for a few minutes on it, I would use two words to describe it: "fuzziness", and "convenience". These two naturally overlap, but I'll do my best to explain what I mean.

Fuzziness is the vague and inconsistent way in which the multiverse stuff acts. Sometimes, tears are portals to the same time and the same place in an alternate reality. Sometimes, tears are portals to the same place but a different time. Sometimes, tears are portals to different places, at either the same time, or a different time. It's unclear as to why tears exist at all, or why the ones that randomly appear around need to be "opened" to let you through, but somehow allow sound to pass through with no worries so that those guys could hear future songs and make bank off them in the past. Why aren't past, present and future time travelers jumping around all the time? Why aren't alternate universe travelers stealing things from your universe like you are from theirs? Particularly since we know for a fact there are infinite Bookers and Elizabeths running around at the same time, presumably doing slight variations on what you're doing. Why can killing Booker at the end stop all Comstock's somehow, or make things right? If past present and future is simultaneous, as the twins keep discussing in their philosophical teasings, how can changes happen at all?

Convenience is how the fuzziness always works to make the plot work. Obviously, I understand that this was written by a human person who wanted to make the plot work. There is a line repeated once or twice by Elizabeth about how the tears are "possibly" a kind of wish fulfillment. Thus, the stage is set for tears to do whatever the fuck the plot needs to drive the characters forward. This isn't by no means a plot hole, but boy it sure is convenient. But the convenience goes beyond stuff like how the tears that appear are always exactly what they need to overcome some obstacle they're faced with, and extends to the narrative itself. The way that the reality shifts work to obscure your memories serves no purpose except to facilitate twists and so forth. I consider it no less groan-worthy than plot induced amnesia, partly because that's exactly what it is anyway. It goes beyond just your character getting confused during shifts, to the point where they say that you invented a bunch of your memories retrospectively, and also got highly fucking selective amnesia so that the fine details that are relevant to the story got forgotten. They didn't just keep details from you, they lied to you. I probably would have looked on this a bit more kindly had they not pulled the exact same stunt with the first Bioshock.

Anyway, I enjoyed the aesthetic and the Barber's Shop Quartet at the start was worth the price of admission. Unlike the first Bioshock, I didn't get so sick of the mediocre game-play that I quit part way and looked the rest up on Youtube, which is a good sign for the direction the series has taken.
 
Slate sent wave after wave of his men at me when all he needed to do was hand over a potion, I was not inclined to give him what he wanted.

Pretty much this.

He wanted the easy way out while all he could do was give the potion without any of the mumbo jumbo involved. He made Booker relive his past, feel the pain again and in the end Slate wanted Booker to just kill him? Not a chance in hell that he deserved that.
 

Truant

Member
Eh.

It was no primer.

I appreciated the narrative on a sort of technical level, but didn't enjoy the ending at all. I was going along with it when they revealed her to be your daughter, but right at the end when you turned out to be Comstock I full on burst out laughing. I think the plot was all much stronger and more enjoyable prior to the closing 90 minutes or so.

There was something about all the reality shifting that bothered me throughout most of the game, but didn't really come to a head and really irk me until the end. After reflecting for a few minutes on it, I would use two words to describe it: "fuzziness", and "convenience". These two naturally overlap, but I'll do my best to explain what I mean.

Fuzziness is the vague and inconsistent way in which the multiverse stuff acts. Sometimes, tears are portals to the same time and the same place in an alternate reality. Sometimes, tears are portals to the same place but a different time. Sometimes, tears are portals to different places, at either the same time, or a different time. It's unclear as to why tears exist at all, or why the ones that randomly appear around need to be "opened" to let you through, but somehow allow sound to pass through with no worries so that those guys could hear future songs and make bank off them in the past. Why aren't past, present and future time travelers jumping around all the time? Why aren't alternate universe travelers stealing things from your universe like you are from theirs? Particularly since we know for a fact there are infinite Bookers and Elizabeths running around at the same time, presumably doing slight variations on what you're doing. Why can killing Booker at the end stop all Comstock's somehow, or make things right? If past present and future is simultaneous, as the twins keep discussing in their philosophical teasings, how can changes happen at all?

Convenience is how the fuzziness always works to make the plot work. Obviously, I understand that this was written by a human person who wanted to make the plot work. There is a line repeated once or twice by Elizabeth about how the tears are "possibly" a kind of wish fulfillment. Thus, the stage is set for tears to do whatever the fuck the plot needs to drive the characters forward. This isn't by no means a plot hole, but boy it sure is convenient. But the convenience goes beyond stuff like how the tears that appear are always exactly what they need to overcome some obstacle they're faced with, but extends to the narrative itself. The way that the reality shifts work to obscure your memories serves no purpose except to facilitate twists and so forth. I consider it no less groan-worthy than plot induced amnesia, partly because that's exactly what it is anyway. It goes beyond just your character getting confused during shifts, to the point where they say that you invented a bunch of your memories retrospectively, and also got highly fucking selective amnesia so that the fine details that are relevant to the story got forgotten. They didn't just keep details from you, they lied to you. I probably would have looked on this a bit more kindly had they not pulled the exact same stunt with the first Bioshock.

Anyway, I enjoyed the aesthetic and the Barber's Shop Quartet at the start was worth the price of admission. Unlike the first Bioshock, I didn't get so sick of the mediocre game-play that I quit part way and looked the rest up on Youtube, which is a good sign for the direction the series has taken.

I don't believe this scene is to be taken literally. It's obviously a symbolic representation of the baptism as it occurred in the possibility space. Liz is using her powers to undo every universe where Comstock was "born". Note the actual "time travel" representation of the scene, versus the scene where Booker drowns.
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Has it been explained with any real consensus what rapture means and how it fits into this? I really dislike the ending, of bringing this supernatural element to a world where, though fantastical, I felt was grounded in some sense of realism. The game was beautiful, it was fun to play, but it didnt feel like a bioshock game to me at all. I was actually smiling ear to ear when they went back to rapture for that small bit but on reflection, id much rather they leave all references to Bioshock 1 out of the equation.
 
Top Bottom