Support NeoGAF

[DatDude]

EDIT: Nevermind.

I'm just gonna sleep on this. I hate that I have to order the plot up first, at least a little bit, before I can properly analyze the themes.

It's all explained in the game, so there's no need to even get the plot up first, it's all there. You just need to digest that info properly.

By the way here's a potential helpful flow chart that pertains to the events of the game: http://www.abload.de/img/bioshockinfinitetimel19ine.png

 

[cheezcake]

On another note, I find the reception to Bioshock Infinite's ending (which embraces the futility of choice and seems to indicate that free will is an illusion) compared to the massive fan backlash of Mass Effect 3's original endings to be quite amusing. Perhaps you will say that Ken Levine never gave us the false premise of choice in BI. That it is meant to be a rails shooter with minimal RPG elements from start to the finish. And like livestock to the slaughter, we embrace the lack of choice from the beginning, all the way to the end. In which case I will say that at least Mr. Levine was honest to us, unlike Mr. Hudson. But is it not ironic that in a medium that is supposed to better than the ones before because of its interactivity, we embrace this message of the lack of choice? And why?

With Infinite it fits the context of the game, story-wise and gameplay-wise. Mass Effect on the other hand, you've made so many gameplay choices before the end of the 3rd that there were dozens of different pathways that players could be on, having only 3 endings despite this was just sort of stupid. Not too mention how much they trumped up the whole "your choices result in a unique story" thing beforehand

 

[LTWheels]

This is, in effect, what leading Booker to Columbia eventually leads to.

It does but they use Booker as an experimental tool rather than directly sorting it out themselves.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I guess so? It's just a videogame is a pretty weak excuse to be honest. There must be ways to address these subjects in a more detailed and complex way without adding 20 hours to the game. They made the choice to use them as the "fluff" of the city and should be fairly criticized for that. Maybe it's topics they will explore during the DLC. I wonder if those are going to take place after the ending. On one hand, that would be really interesting but quite complex to do. I'm guessing it's going to be missions that are quite independent from the main story.

I don't mean "it's just a video game", I mean that it's not a very long one, not one that I think would benefit from shoehorned in parts to address subjects in more detailed. I don't think those aspects are just "fluff" either - they're important to the uprising. I just don't think the game needed to delve very deeply into those subjects in order to include references to them as a catalyst for resulting events which are critical to the story.

 

[Wrestlemania]

It does but they use Booker as an experimental tool rather than directly sorting it out themselves.

I'm sure at some point it's explained that they can't directly intervene. They are, after all, dead.

 

[DatDude]

With Infinite it fits the context of the game, story-wise and gameplay-wise. Mass Effect on the other hand, you've made so many gameplay choices before the end of the 3rd that there were dozens of different pathways that players could be on, having only 3 endings despite this was just sort of stupid. Not too mention how much they trumped up the whole "your choices result in a unique story" thing beforehand

Yup. What Mass Effect 3 did was just a giant dump on the entire fan base.

There should have been at least 10 endings if not more. Through 3 triolgies we were lead to believe our choices actually mattered and would leave a lasting impact on the narrative.

When in reality it was just broken down to 3 fucking colors.

What Bioware did was just so fucking pathetic, lazy, and just left to much anger inside me.

 

[DatDude]

It does but they use Booker as an experimental tool rather than directly sorting it out themselves.

They sort of needed Booker to sort it out himself though.

 

[Sblargh]

Hey, I just thought, if the Luteces are just guiding Booker after Booker fixing little things in the way, I wonder how they felt when they saw that martyr Booker actually helped the thing to proceed despiste being dead.
I wonder if they thought something like: "Huh, so experiment #87 wasn't a complete failure".

The thing that bugs me most is why Booker was resurrecting without Ann nearby? They didn't took different Booker from another dimension, did they?

Yes, they did.

 

[The_Player]

The thing that bugs me most is why Booker was resurrecting without Ann nearby? They didn't took different Booker from another dimension, did they?

 

[DatDude]

The thing that bugs me most is why Booker was resurrecting without Ann nearby? They didn't took different Booker from another dimension, did they?

From what I understand they did. Every booker that dies, is another alternate booker.

At least that's my perception.

 

[LTWheels]

From what I understand they did. Every booker that dies, is another alternate booker.

At least that's my perception.

It would have been interesting if at the end there was a chalk board which added the number of times you died without Elizabeth to the tally on the chalkboard at the beginning.

 

[dan2026]

Did Booker have Anna after his baptism?

If so when he dies at the climax wouldn't she cease to exist completely?

 

[DatDude]

Did Booker have Anna after his baptism?

If so when he dies at the climax wouldn't she cease to exist completely?

From what I understand,

Only the Elizabeth version of Anna would cease to exist.

 

[Reckless Onion]

From what I understand they did. Every booker that dies, is another alternate booker.

At least that's my perception.

then why do they all die in the end but not while in game?

 

[antonz]

Ok, just trying to rationalize the plot first:

The story is basically the Lucetes trying to undo their own damage, seeing how they took Anna in the first place?

Brother Lucete has a conscious more or less that is missing from sister. She has the attitude whats happened happened and will continue to happen but Brother demands that she help him set things right because as he says He lived the mistake. He forces her to help by saying if she doesnt he will disappear never to be seen by her again.

The Brother is the whole reason redemption is sought. He sees what he did helping Comstock and wants to fix that because what he did leads to much harm later on.

 

[vladdamad]

So I started 1999 mode, did the first two chapters. Then my friends came over, and I wanted to show them the intro, so I showed it to them through chapter select. If I go back to my last save in 1999 mode after doing this and play the game to completion, will I still get my trophy for beating it in 1999 mode? Or is it just better to start again?

 

[DatDude]

So I started 1999 mode, did the first two chapters. Then my friends came over, and I wanted to show them the intro, so I showed it to them through chapter select. If I go back to my last save in 1999 mode after doing this and play the game to completion, will I still get my trophy for beating it in 1999 mode? Or is it just better to start again?

i don't think you will.

 

[vladdamad]

i don't think you will.

OK thanks, I'll just start again then. Wasn't that far into it anyway

 

[SuperEpicGuy]

So just finished the game.... wut. Quite a horrible ending to say the least, yes my mind was blown but that's due to how confusing the ending was. I was literally gaping as I saw Booker get killed by Elizabeths. Really? Here I was saving her and she drowns me. How this game got great scores is beyond me (alright, every other part of the game was good but the ending is also important on such a story-based game). Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after. Reminds me of the game Limbo which also had a mediocre ending.

This game is also pretty bad at explaining things. I read almost every single diary thing and always looked around the levels but still have no clue on:

1. Who the hell are those 2 people that appear at random times?
2. What is the debt that he was trying to pay off?
3. What is the bird's purpose?
4. Who made the bird?
5. Why can she open tears?
6. Is his debt paid off now?
6.2 Did I just give young Elizabeth to the debt collector?
7. How did the debt collector end up in that room?
8. Who is the debt collector?
9. When did Comstock become the prophet?
10. When was Columbia built?
11. Who built Columbia (I think it was some guy who knew quantum physics)?
12. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
13.2. Why did that happen to her?
14. Since Comstock received the child, does that mean that Elizabeth is not her daughter?
14.2 Then whose daughter is she?
15. How did I become Comstock?
16. Why did I become Comstock?
17. What did the baptism have to do with this?
18. Does this baptism have anything to do with the baptism you got at the begging of the game?
19. Who is Anna? Is she also Elizabeth?

There are probably more questions but it's 6 am here and I need to get some sleep. Stayed up all night to finish the game and was dissapointed.

 

[MrBS]

I picked Elizabeth being Booker's daughter. I picked Booker being Comstock. As a result of the second guess I also figured we would have some kind of ouroboros thing happening with the cycle having to be broken. I didn't expect the cameo of Rapture which was a nice touch.

I guess I'll have to go back one day and see all this 'foreshadowing' I didn't pick up on from the outset.

 

[cheezcake]

So just finished the game.... wut. Quite a horrible ending to say the least, yes my mind was blown but that's due to how confusing the ending was. I was literally gaping as I saw Booker get killed by Elizabeths. Really? Here I was saving her and she drowns me. How this game got great scores is beyond me (alright, every other part of the game was good but the ending is also important on such a story-based game). Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after. Reminds me of the game Limbo which also had a mediocre ending.

This game is also pretty bad at explaining things. I read almost every single diary thing and always looked around the levels but still have no clue on:

1. Who the hell are those 2 people?
2. What is the debt that he was trying to pay off?
3. What is the bird's purpose?
4. Who made the bird?
5. Why can she open tears?
6. Is his debt paid off now?
6.2 Did I just give young Elizabeth to the debt collector?
7. How did the debt collector end up in that room?
8. Who is the debt collector?
9. When did Comstock become the prophet?
10. When was Columbia built?
11. Who built Columbia (I think it was some guy who knew quantum physics)?
12. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
13.2. Why did that happen to her?
14. Since Comstock received the child, does that mean that Elizabeth is not her daughter?
14.2 Then whose daughter is she?
15. How did I become Comstock?
16. Why did I become Comstock?
17. What did the baptism have to do with this?
18. Does this baptism have anything to do with the baptism you got at the begging of the game?
19. Who is Anna? Is she also Elizabeth?

There are probably more questions but it's 6 am here and I need to get some sleep. Stayed up all night to finish the game and was dissapointed.

Pretty much all of these are answered directly during the main plot or at least through voxaphones...

 

[The Xtortionist]

This is probably being nothing but I find it interesting how Booker reacts to Elizabeth's first tear in front of him. He says "Looks like a shortcut to getting us killed." The "shortcut" part is strange, since it implies that they are going to die regardless (which they do, if you consider Elizabeth disappearing as dying).

 

[DatDude]

So just finished the game.... wut. Quite a horrible ending to say the least, yes my mind was blown but that's due to how confusing the ending was. I was literally gaping as I saw Booker get killed by Elizabeths. Really? Here I was saving her and she drowns me. How this game got great scores is beyond me (alright, every other part of the game was good but the ending is also important on such a story-based game). Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after. Reminds me of the game Limbo which also had a mediocre ending.

This game is also pretty bad at explaining things. I read almost every single diary thing and always looked around the levels but still have no clue on:

1. Who the hell are those 2 people that appear at random times?
2. What is the debt that he was trying to pay off?
3. What is the bird's purpose?
4. Who made the bird?
5. Why can she open tears?
6. Is his debt paid off now?
6.2 Did I just give young Elizabeth to the debt collector?
7. How did the debt collector end up in that room?
8. Who is the debt collector?
9. When did Comstock become the prophet?
10. When was Columbia built?
11. Who built Columbia (I think it was some guy who knew quantum physics)?
12. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
13.2. Why did that happen to her?
14. Since Comstock received the child, does that mean that Elizabeth is not her daughter?
14.2 Then whose daughter is she?
15. How did I become Comstock?
16. Why did I become Comstock?
17. What did the baptism have to do with this?
18. Does this baptism have anything to do with the baptism you got at the begging of the game?
19. Who is Anna? Is she also Elizabeth?

There are probably more questions but it's 6 am here and I need to get some sleep. Stayed up all night to finish the game and was dissapointed.

The game isn't bad at explaining things. Your just bad at paying attention.

Honestly, and this isn't meant to berate you, but were you playing the game drunk/high/super sleep from a long day at school/work, did you simply rush?

I mean honestly. The game explains all those points from 1 to 19....just shaking my head right now.

 

[pakkit]

So just finished the game.... wut. Quite a horrible ending to say the least, yes my mind was blown but that's due to how confusing the ending was. I was literally gaping as I saw Booker get killed by Elizabeths. Really? Here I was saving her and she drowns me. How this game got great scores is beyond me (alright, every other part of the game was good but the ending is also important on such a story-based game). Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after. Reminds me of the game Limbo which also had a mediocre ending.

This game is also pretty bad at explaining things. I read almost every single diary thing and always looked around the levels but still have no clue on:

1. Who the hell are those 2 people?
2. What is the debt that he was trying to pay off?
3. What is the bird's purpose?
4. Who made the bird?
5. Why can she open tears?
6. Is his debt paid off now?
6.2 Did I just give young Elizabeth to the debt collector?
7. How did the debt collector end up in that room?
8. Who is the debt collector?
9. When did Comstock become the prophet?
10. When was Columbia built?
11. Who built Columbia (I think it was some guy who knew quantum physics)?
12. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
13.2. Why did that happen to her?
14. Since Comstock received the child, does that mean that Elizabeth is not her daughter?
14.2 Then whose daughter is she?
15. How did I become Comstock?
16. Why did I become Comstock?
17. What did the baptism have to do with this?
18. Does this baptism have anything to do with the baptism you got at the begging of the game?
19. Who is Anna? Is she also Elizabeth?

There are probably more questions but it's 6 am here and I need to get some sleep. Stayed up all night to finish the game and was dissapointed.

Welcome to the thread. Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKKAkrnT_o8.

Read this explanation: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bioshock/comments/1b4fmx/my_detailed_ending_explanation_my_attempt_at_the/.

A lot of your questions have been addressed in this thread, and are easily answered by the narrative itself. In fact, a lot of your questions are outright answered in the narrative.

Maybe you just hate melancholy, or open-ended endings. I thought Limbo's ending was pretty strong.

I picked Elizabeth being Booker's daughter. I picked Booker being Comstock. As a result of the second guess I also figured we would have some kind of ouroboros thing happening with the cycle having to be broken. I didn't expect the cameo of Rapture which was a nice touch.

I guess I'll have to go back one day and see all this 'foreshadowing' I didn't pick up on from the outset.

Before the end of the game, I guessed correctly that AD stood for Anna DeWitt (also, in my mind, it's an allusion to alternate dimension), and recognized that the dream sequences were a new Booker. I didn't figure out that Comstock was Booker though...which playing back through the game seems strikingly obvious. It's funny what you can miss if you're not looking for it, I guess.

 

[saunderez]

Pretty much all of these are answered directly during the main plot or at least through voxaphones...

It takes a special kind of ignorance to miss ALL of that. Unbelievable.

 

[Blinck]

So just finished the game.... wut. Quite a horrible ending to say the least, yes my mind was blown but that's due to how confusing the ending was. I was literally gaping as I saw Booker get killed by Elizabeths. Really? Here I was saving her and she drowns me. How this game got great scores is beyond me (alright, every other part of the game was good but the ending is also important on such a story-based game). Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after. Reminds me of the game Limbo which also had a mediocre ending.

This game is also pretty bad at explaining things. I read almost every single diary thing and always looked around the levels but still have no clue on:

1. Who the hell are those 2 people that appear at random times?
2. What is the debt that he was trying to pay off?
3. What is the bird's purpose?
4. Who made the bird?
5. Why can she open tears?
6. Is his debt paid off now?
6.2 Did I just give young Elizabeth to the debt collector?
7. How did the debt collector end up in that room?
8. Who is the debt collector?
9. When did Comstock become the prophet?
10. When was Columbia built?
11. Who built Columbia (I think it was some guy who knew quantum physics)?
12. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
13.2. Why did that happen to her?
14. Since Comstock received the child, does that mean that Elizabeth is not her daughter?
14.2 Then whose daughter is she?
15. How did I become Comstock?
16. Why did I become Comstock?
17. What did the baptism have to do with this?
18. Does this baptism have anything to do with the baptism you got at the begging of the game?
19. Who is Anna? Is she also Elizabeth?

There are probably more questions but it's 6 am here and I need to get some sleep. Stayed up all night to finish the game and was dissapointed.

Wow...really?
I mean I didn't understand the plot at 100% first, but judging by some of your questions I'm guessing that you just spent the whole game asleep....

Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after.

This really bothers me...why the hell would you want such a cliché ending like this? This is so fucking brain-dead it's disgusting.

 

[Gustav]

So just finished the game.... wut. Quite a horrible ending to say the least, yes my mind was blown but that's due to how confusing the ending was. I was literally gaping as I saw Booker get killed by Elizabeths. Really? Here I was saving her and she drowns me. How this game got great scores is beyond me (alright, every other part of the game was good but the ending is also important on such a story-based game). Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after. Reminds me of the game Limbo which also had a mediocre ending.

This game is also pretty bad at explaining things. I read almost every single diary thing and always looked around the levels but still have no clue on:



There are probably more questions but it's 6 am here and I need to get some sleep. Stayed up all night to finish the game and was dissapointed.

1. Who the hell are those 2 people?
Scientists who made Columbia possible.

2. What is the debt that he was trying to pay off?
Gambling debt.

3. What is the bird's purpose?
Protect Elisabeth

4. Who made the bird?
Fink, after seeing mechanical creatures from other tears (probably Big Daddys)

5. Why can she open tears?
Because she is in two universes at the same time (pinky in one, herself in another)

6. Is his debt paid off now?
Probably, yes. Doesn't matter.

6.2 Did I just give young Elizabeth to the debt collector?
No. You gave her for money to settle your debts.

7. How did the debt collector end up in that room?
?

8. Who is the debt collector?
Do you mean Comstock?

9. When did Comstock become the prophet?
In 1893 or something. It's explained in the small films.

10. When was Columbia built?
In 1893 or something. It's explained in the small films.

11. Who built Columbia (I think it was some guy who knew quantum physics)?
The Letuces

12. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
Because he needed a heiress for his empire.

13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
She was killed by Comstock in a fit of rage.

13.2. Why did that happen to her?
See above

14. Since Comstock received the child, does that mean that Elizabeth is not her daughter?
?

14.2 Then whose daughter is she?
She is Anna, daughter of Booker and his dead wife.

15. How did I become Comstock?
Booker became Comstock in another universe, where he let himself be baptized (born again)

16. Why did I become Comstock?
Because religion.

17. What did the baptism have to do with this?
It's a sign of rebirth. It makes Booker become super religious (Comstock). In universes where he does not choose to be baptized, he is more a less a normal drunkard.

18. Does this baptism have anything to do with the baptism you got at the begging of the game?
No, it's just a bookend.

19. Who is Anna? Is she also Elizabeth?
Yes.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I'm sure at some point it's explained that they can't directly intervene. They are, after all, dead.

If they are both dead, how are they still interacting with Booker so much? Are these alternate Luteces?

 

[DatDude]

112. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
Because he needed a heiress for his empire.

Also because he became sterile due to the time traveling and believed that Anna would have a better life in Columbia, all be it locked away in a tower, than living with a person who is rotting from the inside due to the happenings at wounded and knee and is becoming engulfed with debt.

13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
She was killed by Comstock in a fit of rage.

I also believe that you see Comstocks wife ghost become a representation of Booker's wife who died during child birth. Thus the reason she is a ghost.

 

[DatDude]

It takes a special kind of ignorance to miss ALL of that. Unbelievable.

I have to agree.

I mean for fuck sakes. It sounds like he didn't rush either...I mean, to have that many questions regarding the plot is just silly, and could even be seen as trolling.

I mean wow...guess there are alot of people like SuperEpicGuy, because I see posts like his all over gamefaqs. Just incompetence, pure, pure incompetence.


Also, SuperEpicGuy, did you skip the credits? I imagine so, because you didn't even ask what the after credit scene even meant.

 

[pakkit]

If they are both dead, how are they still interacting with Booker so much? Are these alternate Luteces?

Does anyone else besides Booker and Elizabeth recognize them? Think of them more as ghosts, that can be seen when they want to be seen. As further evidence, early on in the game you come across a pair of binoculars and if you look through them you can see the Letuces but otherwise they're absent from the world. Their true corporeal selves died in an "accident," but since the explosion happened in their lab and near their equipment they basically became Timelords.

EDIT: Can we stop with the personal attacks against SuperEpicGuy? COOLIO came into the thread hating the ending but once he read a little more about the reasoning he came around and enjoyed it for what it was.

 

[antonz]

If they are both dead, how are they still interacting with Booker so much? Are these alternate Luteces?

When Fink sabotaged their machine it in a sense left them as non-coporeal life forms. Their existence was scattered among the multiverse. There is some question though of how they can interact in the world if they are as helpless as they claim to be

 

[toastyToast]

To eliminate Comstock, wouldn't that have required killing the Booker of 20 years ago rather than the Booker who visits Columbia?

 

[GoddyofAus]

So just finished the game.... wut. Quite a horrible ending to say the least, yes my mind was blown but that's due to how confusing the ending was. I was literally gaping as I saw Booker get killed by Elizabeths. Really? Here I was saving her and she drowns me. How this game got great scores is beyond me (alright, every other part of the game was good but the ending is also important on such a story-based game). Where's the satisfying conclusion? I don't get why I couldn't just have a good nice battle with Comstock and whoop his ass and live with Elizabeth happily ever after. Reminds me of the game Limbo which also had a mediocre ending.

This game is also pretty bad at explaining things. I read almost every single diary thing and always looked around the levels but still have no clue on:

1. Who the hell are those 2 people that appear at random times?
2. What is the debt that he was trying to pay off?
3. What is the bird's purpose?
4. Who made the bird?
5. Why can she open tears?
6. Is his debt paid off now?
6.2 Did I just give young Elizabeth to the debt collector?
7. How did the debt collector end up in that room?
8. Who is the debt collector?
9. When did Comstock become the prophet?
10. When was Columbia built?
11. Who built Columbia (I think it was some guy who knew quantum physics)?
12. Why did Comstock want Elizabeth?
13. What happened to Comstock's wife?
13.2. Why did that happen to her?
14. Since Comstock received the child, does that mean that Elizabeth is not her daughter?
14.2 Then whose daughter is she?
15. How did I become Comstock?
16. Why did I become Comstock?
17. What did the baptism have to do with this?
18. Does this baptism have anything to do with the baptism you got at the begging of the game?
19. Who is Anna? Is she also Elizabeth?

There are probably more questions but it's 6 am here and I need to get some sleep. Stayed up all night to finish the game and was dissapointed.

 

[pakkit]

To eliminate Comstock, wouldn't that have required killing the Booker of 20 years ago rather than the Booker who visits Columbia?

That's why they go through all those doors at the end. Elizabeth is trying to locate the correct Booker/Comstock to murder.

 

[nomis]

in Infinite you have all of this quantum mechanics nonsense. It just doesn't gel together with me. Examining a hyper-jingoistic, zealous American splinter state facing a worker's revolution would be interesting enough; I'm sure all of the character drama involving DeWitt, Comstock, and Elizabeth could be made to fit that. To make it all about multiverses just seems gratuitous. What the hell does the nature of reality or fate have to do with a flying racist city. Both are fantastical enough elements but they don't fit together well enough imo

The racist flying city is just exquisitely textured window dressing for a story about the nature of choice within the context of a multiverse.

A different source of drama for these characters is ironically an eventuality that would never have arisen. We aren't dealing with a chicken-egg scenario with Comstock/Booker/Elizabeth and the plot we see in Infinite. These characters and every trait they have exist to serve a story about tampering with quantum mechanics.

 

[Whooter]

EDIT: Can we stop with the personal attacks against SuperEpicGuy? COOLIO came into the thread hating the ending but once he read a little more about the reasoning he came around and enjoyed it for what it was.

I think hating the ending because you hated the ending is fine. Hating the ending because you apparently didn't pay attention to anything between the shooty bits is not.

 

[GoddyofAus]

I think hating the ending because you hated the ending is fine. Hating the ending because you apparently didn't pay attention to anything between the shooty bits is not.

Yep, I'm pretty sure he's trolling. Let him cop it.

 

[Vice]

Does anyone else besides Booker and Elizabeth recognize them? Think of them more as ghosts, that can be seen when they want to be seen. As further evidence, early on in the game you come across a pair of binoculars and if you look through them you can see the Letuces but otherwise they're absent from the world. Their true corporeal selves died in an "accident," but since the explosion happened in their lab and near their equipment they basically became Timelords.

EDIT: Can we stop with the personal attacks against SuperEpicGuy? COOLIO came into the thread hating the ending but once he read a little more about the reasoning he came around and enjoyed it for what it was.

Others can interact with them. The funeral director said he talked to the Lutece's a week after they died.

 

[Superimposer]

I've noticed the people who put no effort into getting to grips with Voxophones and figuring out the story for themselves, are exactly the people who don't like the ending.

 

[toastyToast]

That's why they go through all those doors at the end. Elizabeth is trying to locate the correct Booker/Comstock to murder.

Wouldn't the ending be from the 3rd person perspective then? Booker commenting that he feels 20 years younger might not have fit the tone but it's kind of a big deal. Also the baptism wouldn't have been nearly as affecting if it was some other guy I guess

 

[DatDude]

The racist flying city is just exquisitely textured window dressing for a story about the nature of choice within the context of a multiverse.

A different source of drama for these characters is ironically an eventuality that would never have arisen. We aren't dealing with a chicken-egg scenario with Comstock/Booker/Elizabeth and the plot we see in Infinite. These characters and every trait they have exist to serve a story about tampering with quantum mechanics.

Yup.

To many people think that the middle part regarding the vox populi served very little purpose..when that's the whole point. It was just meant to further elaborate on the quantum mechanic theme.

To many people expected another bioshock where the rebellion (in this case the vox populi) because the root of the entire narrative (similar to how atlas causing the rebellion lead to the civil war, which set the entire theme from there)...when instead they received an an entire rebellion just simply being the backdrop to drive the narrative forward.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Did Booker have Anna after his baptism?

If so when he dies at the climax wouldn't she cease to exist completely?

Well isn't that kind of the point of the post credits stinger?

Someone who has really grasped the minutiae of how the realities overlap could maybe explain better what they think.

The more I contemplate this game's ending the more I find to dissect :lol

 

[Dusky]

Finished it last night and I'm still fairly mind-blown. Still lots of questions racing through my mind at the moment.

Going to look through the thread first to see if any posts answer my questions.

One thing is for sure though, this game will be remembered as having one of the greatest narratives this gen, a worthy swan song. Great Job Ken.

 

[Horse Detective]

This is now a thing.

 

[DatDude]

The more I contemplate this game's ending the more I find to dissect :lol

It's quite remarkable to isn't?

No wonder it took Levine 4 months to write this ending.

Just incredible work. Most spoiler thread..20-30, maybe 50 pages top for the really narratives it usually dies off. Here, I could easily see it reaching 200+ pages if not a second OT.

With this game, and this ending there is just SOOOOOOOOO much to discuss/dicect/theorize on. Honestly, the day where there is nothing left to discuss, narrative wise, is going to be such a sad day, because this is the first time (for me at least) where it's been so entertaining and such a blast to just talk about a video game narrative.

 

[antonz]

The Whole revolution is really about one person seeking revenge who uses circumstance to set off a powder keg.

The whole revolution is fitzroy seeking revenge for Comstock using her as the patsy who supposedly killed Lady Comstock. She wants revenge and thats all she cares about in the end is getting back at Comstock and the founders

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Ok I think, killing Booker at that point in time where realities cross over kills off himself post baptism and Comstock and Elizabeth as we see her disappear aswell. But there is one Elizabeth left over, our Elizabeth, who I assume would be the Anna in the crib post credits.

So, why does Booker wake up post credits 3 years after his death?
Why did Elizabeth not disappear? (or perhaps she did, the crib scene is essentially an inception cliffhanger moment after all)

 

[DatDude]

Ok I think, killing Booker at that point in time where realities cross over kills off himself post baptism and Comstock and Elizabeth as we see her disappear aswell. But there is one Elizabeth left over, our Elizabeth, who I assume would be the Anna in the crib post credits.

So, why does Booker wake up post credits 3 years after his death?
Why did Elizabeth not disappear? (or perhaps she did, the crib scene is essentially an inception cliffhanger moment after all)

Lends itself very well to the Infinite loop theory..but like you said it's left purposely to make the player have something to discuss afterwards.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Ok I think, killing Booker at that point in time where realities cross over kills off himself post baptism and Comstock and Elizabeth as we see her disappear aswell. But there is one Elizabeth left over, our Elizabeth, who I assume would be the Anna in the crib post credits.

So, why does Booker wake up post credits 3 years after his death?
Why did Elizabeth not disappear? (or perhaps she did, the crib scene is essentially an inception cliffhanger moment after all)

She may have disappeared though. Each Elizabeth disappears when a note of the song plays. The last Elizabeth isn't shown disappearing but there is another note when the screen turns black.