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[Mr. Sam]

No. If you die in a lower level you wake up in the level above. This was illustrated by the scene in the beginning of the movie where Arthur is shot in the head by Cobb and wakes up in the apartment.

Except Fischer was heavily sedated so in that dream (or dreams) you would go to limbo if you died as they explained and as demonstrated by Saito when he died from a bullet wound and went to limbo.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Because they went in with Fischer's death.

ooooh that's right! I guess when Fischer entered limbo what's her face (Leo's projection of his dead wife) went and grabbed him up! And since Leo knew this would happen he knew where to go.

That works well enough.

 

[Zeliard]

Because they went in with Fischer's death.

Yeah. Fischer dies, they hook up to him and enter Limbo.

But Limbo at that point is only populated by remnants of Cobb's own Limbo, as none of the other characters had been there before. It was described as the huge, empty wilderness of your subconscious. Cobb had already populated his part of it with Mal.

 

[Solo]

My Top 2 Movies of this year

1. Inception
2. Shutter Island

Spoiler

They are the only ones I've seen

You need to see Ghost Writer, son!

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

:lol

And to anyone saying Cobb DIDN'T die in the van--unless he can breathe underwater, he most definitely did.

Still disagree. All that shit in limbo could have happened in time for him to wake up very soon after everyone else left the van.

 

[CajoleJuice]

You need to see Ghost Writer, son!

But it doesn't have Leo!

*changes avatar*

 

[ZephyrFate]

Still disagree. All that shit in limbo could have happened in time for him to wake up very soon after everyone else left the van.

But since it's not explicitly shown it's left ambiguous.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Yeah. Fischer dies, they hook up to him and enter Limbo.

But Limbo at that point is only populated by remnants of Cobb's own Limbo, as none of the other characters had been there before. It was described as the huge, empty wilderness of your subconscious. Cobb had already populated his part of it with Mal.

When did he populate it with Mal though? They both left it at the same time, so how did she get there before Leo entered it again?

 

[DMczaf]

But it doesn't have Leo!

*changes avatar*

I don't think you'll find any pics of Leo snorting coke


He burned them all.

 

[Zoe]

Still disagree. All that shit in limbo could have happened in time for him to wake up very soon after everyone else left the van.

For whatever reason, he missed the kick in the third level. That automatically makes him miss the second level kick which means he can't wake up in the first.

When did he populate it with Mal though? They both left it at the same time, so how did she get there before Leo entered it again?

Because she's part of his deep subconscious--which is what limbo is made of.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

But it doesn't have Leo!

*changes avatar*

It was also made by a rapist. Something else to consider.

 

[shintoki]

You need to see Ghost Writer, son!

Never opened by me and I wanted to see it since it starred the best bond!

 

[BobsRevenge]

Never opened by me and I wanted to see it since it starred the best bond!

Roger Moore is in that movie?

 

[Solo]

I still cant believe Nolan made a movie that talks about "designing the levels" :lol

 

[BobsRevenge]

Because she's part of his deep subconscious--which is what limbo is made of.

But no one else's deep subconscious was there, except for Saito. Also, how does the machine have memory of what happened in limbo before? Must it have been the same machine? Why would the give the machine the power to remember past limbo happenings?

edit: Does limbo happen inside each person's mind and it has to be tapped into, and then it changes forever neurally inside the person?

edit 2: If Juno enters limbo again without Leo even being around, will it then still be populated with Leo shit and Saito shit?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I still cant believe Nolan made a movie that talks about "designing the levels" :lol

I loved that whole aspect of it. Yusef was straight up EDGEing that shit.

 

[CajoleJuice]

I still cant believe Nolan made a movie that talks about "designing the levels" :lol

GOTY

 

[Zoe]

But no one else's deep subconscious was there, except for Saito. Also, how does the machine have memory of what happened in limbo before? Must it have been the same machine? Why would the give the machine the power to remember past limbo happenings?

Everybody's deep subconsciouses were down there. Nobody else had anything to contribute to it though because Cobb was the only one who had tapped into it before.

 

[Zeliard]

When did he populate it with Mal though? They both left it at the same time, so how did she get there before Leo entered it again?

When I say he populated it with Mal I mean during their 50-year stint in Limbo. Presumably, Cobb had never been back to Limbo since, and when he gets back there with Ariadne and Fischer it's populated by the things he and Mal had built together.

Limbo is a shared consciousness, it isn't any one person's dream. The only reason it featured Cobb's constructs and nobody else's is because nobody else there had been to Limbo before, so their "space" was still empty.

Saito's Limbo at the end features his constructs, confusing Cobb who had only ever known of his "own" Limbo, because Saito also had a 50-year stint there and was able to heavily build his portion.

But no one else's deep subconscious was there, except for Saito. Also, how does the machine have memory of what happened in limbo before? Must it have been the same machine? Why would the give the machine the power to remember past limbo happenings?

I think you're giving too much power to the machine. I don't think the machine itself holds anything - I think it's just the trigger. The brain is what holds the information.

 

[shintoki]

Call of Duty: Inception.

Dream the levels, create the levels, play the levels.

 

[Solo]

GOTY

Its so bad its good :lol The concept is great, but he really needed to use different terminology. Something like "the architect constructs the dreamscape" would have been so much more pleasing on the ears than "designs the levels". Is this a job interview for Cobb or id Software?

 

[ZephyrFate]

I want an Inception videogame.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

That's a bingo! I see no proof whatsoever for the madness claims.

Well, if you weren't there with your soulmate, it would be effective like decades of solitary confinement. That's a pretty harsh punishment, even if you do get out at the end.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I loved that whole aspect of it. Yusef was straight up EDGEing that shit.

I'm sorry, I still can't believe the turnaround you made on this movie.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Its so bad its good :lol The concept is great, but he really needed to use different terminology. Something like "the architect constructs the dreamscape" would have been so much more pleasing on the ears than "designs the levels". Is this a job interview for Cobb or id Software?

You're biased.

The term levels actually makes a ton of sense, especially if videogames never existed and you had never known of the term being used in that light.

 

[Solo]

You're biased.

The term levels actually makes a ton of sense, especially if videogames never existed and you had never known of the term being used in that light.

But they do exist, and as such the comparison is unavoidable...

 

[DMczaf]

I still cant believe Nolan made a movie that talks about "designing the levels" :lol

<WB> Hey Chris, what's up with the script?

<Nolan> I just have to tighten up the graphics on Level 3.

 

[BobsRevenge]

But they do exist, and as such the comparison is unavoidable...

Especially since one of the levels was shadow moses from MGS.

 

[Expendable.]

a reminder for spoiler thread:

/Filmcast INCEPTION review with Armond White starting: http://www.slashfilm.com/live/



They will also have Devin Faraci on to discuss his Inception theory.

 

[Anton Sugar]

But no one else's deep subconscious was there, except for Saito. Also, how does the machine have memory of what happened in limbo before? Must it have been the same machine? Why would the give the machine the power to remember past limbo happenings?

The machine has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with Cobb having been to limbo/experimenting in it. Remember, they said that it's pure raw subconscious, unless one of the shared dreamers has been there before--in this case, Cobb had been there. It's feeding from Cobb's own subconscious and what they created there.

edit: Does limbo happen inside each person's mind and it has to be tapped into, and then it changes forever neurally inside the person?
edit 2: If Juno enters limbo again without Leo even being around, will it then still be populated with Leo shit and Saito shit?

Yes, each person has their own limbo, but if they are all connected, then the dreamscapes are shared. As for neurally...I think you're looking too much into it.

If Ariadne enters it again alone, then I can only imagine Cobb's vision would have SOME sort of influence over what she thinks it is...but I don't know.

 

[Solo]

<WB> Hey Chris, what's up with the script?

<Nolan> I just have to tighten up the graphics on Level 3.

Pretty much.

"Leo's head wasn't working the way I wanted it to, so I added bump mapping and doubled the model size!"

 

[BobsRevenge]

The machine has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with Cobb having been to limbo/experimenting in it. Remember, they said that it's pure raw subconscious, unless one of the shared dreamers has been there before--in this case, Cobb had been there. It's feeding from Cobb's own subconscious and what they created there.



Yes, each person has their own limbo, but if they are all connected, then the dreamscapes are shared. As for neurally...I think you're looking too much into it.

If Ariadne enters it again alone, then I can only imagine Cobb's vision would have SOME sort of influence over what she thinks it is...but I don't know.

If its not neurally it can't exist. That's the only way anything exists in the brain for goodness sakes!

Then again. The movie has a very poor understanding of psychology in the first place, so I have no idea why I should think this would matter to the movie.

Also, none of that explains how Mal got there before Leo. He didn't have a chance to put her there yet.

 

[Solo]

a reminder for spoiler thread:

/Filmcast INCEPTION review with Armond White starting: http://www.slashfilm.com/live/



They will also have Devin Faraci on to discuss his Inception theory.

So basically its an attention whore vs. and insufferable douchebag? Go Armond!

 

[DMczaf]

So basically its an attention whore vs. and insufferable douchebag? Go Armond!

Which one is Armond!

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm sorry, I still can't believe the turnaround you made on this movie.

It's a simple idea, and positive, the kind of ideas that stick the most.

 

[ZephyrFate]

But they do exist, and as such the comparison is unavoidable...

But levels has had a definition before videogames, so the comparison is unnecessary.

 

[Zoe]

Also, none of that explains how Mal got there before Leo. He didn't have a chance to put her there yet.

She appears out of thin air in almost every dream sequence in the movie. Why is it so hard to believe the same would happen in limbo?

 

[Anton Sugar]

If its not neurally it can't exist. That's the only way anything exists in the brain for goodness sakes!

Then again. The movie has a very poor understanding of psychology in the first place, so I have no idea why I should think this would matter to the movie.

Also, none of that explains how Mal got there before Leo. He didn't have a chance to put her there yet.

I think Mal was there before Leo because Leo's subconscious is the only place he lets her live (or tries to, anyway). I can only assume that because he's a shared dreamer, even though he is not IN limbo yet, it "exists" the moment he starts dreaming?

 

[Solo]

Which one is Armond!

The former, silly goose. Devin is an assclown of the highest degree.

 

[Funky Functionality]

Saw this twice over the weekend. Love it.

On the second viewing, the ENTIRE audience let out a collective frustrated "Unhhhh!!" at the end. :lol

This has to be my favorite movie of the past few years. Second viewing wasn't as intense as the first of course, but there were so many more details I caught the second time around.

 

[BobsRevenge]

I think Mal was there before Leo because Leo's subconscious is the only place he lets her live (or tries to, anyway). I can only assume that because he's a shared dreamer, even though he is not IN limbo yet, it "exists" the moment he starts dreaming?

I suppose he could've subconsciously put her in there without needing to think about it regardless of whether he had visited yet or not, since its in his own brain and that Mal stuff is so pervasive.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I suppose he could've subconsciously put her in there without needing to think about it regardless of whether he had visited yet or not, since its in his own brain and that Mal stuff is so pervasive.

This is exactly what I think happened. Mal can exist anywhere in his subconscious, even if he isn't there. Like the basement of his "memories", where Mal confronts Ariadne. I realize that's a bit different, since Cobb was "there" but on a different level. I think the principle still applies.

Also, anyone else think of Meryl when Mal drops down in snow camo from the ceiling? :lol

 

[MisterAnderson]

Cobb doesn't "die" in level 1 in the van. He's already in limbo. They just show him in the seat lifeless with Arthur's reaction because Arthur has been left out of the loop since he's been in level 2 that whole time. He has no idea that Cobb went into limbo manually. He's already there, looking for Saito and had no intention to ride the kicks up.

At least that's my understanding of it. Also that timeline that someone posted is wrong in regards to Saito's death in relation to Cobb and Ariadne going in limbo after Fischer. Based on the editing of the movie Saito dies shortly after they go in after Fischer, while he's holding off the guards single handedly.

It's also wrong in regards to the label indicating that Saito and Cobb killed themselves in limbo. The time ran out and the machine brought them out of it, with their minds intact since they remembered their purpose and the fact that limbo wasn't real in the nick of time. Although it is very likely that they were about to kill themselves based on him grabbing the gun, but they didn't need to since the timer just ran out on its own.

 

[thetrin]

Roger Moore is in that movie?

Who in their right mind thinks Roger Moore is the best Bond? Good lord...

 

[AVclub]

I think Mal was there before Leo because Leo's subconscious is the only place he lets her live (or tries to, anyway). I can only assume that because he's a shared dreamer, even though he is not IN limbo yet, it "exists" the moment he starts dreaming?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't brain activity needed for a person to dream? If Fischer was dead, how could they jump into his projected limbo and populate it with Leo's subconscious? It would sort of be like trying to have a dinner party in a building that's been demolished, no?

I've read through many pages of this long thread and there are some excellent observations. I loved the movie and how a lot of stuff was up in the air (sometimes literally). It makes for great conversation.

Seeing the kids faces at the end was a great payoff for me. I was surprised that the top didn't stop spinning but at that point I don't think it mattered. The film went to great lengths to illustrate that Cobb had lost his grip on what was real and what wasn't. He relied on that totem to keep himself in check because he was so lost. The fact that he left it behind, without waiting to confirm whether it stopped or not, to go hug his kids at the end means it didn't matter to him anymore whether stuff was real or not. What mattered is that he was letting himself move on and no longer punishing himself for his wife's suicide.

 

[ColonelColon]

Cobb doesn't "die" in level 1 in the van. He's already in limbo. They just show him in the seat lifeless with Arthur's reaction because Arthur has been left out of the loop since he's been in level 2 that whole time. He has no idea that Cobb went into limbo manually. He's already there, looking for Saito and had no intention to ride the kicks up.

At least that's my understanding of it. Also that timeline that someone posted is wrong in regards to Saito's death in relation to Cobb and Ariadne going in limbo after Fischer. Based on the editing of the movie Saito dies shortly after they go in after Fischer, while he's holding off the guards single handedly.

It's also wrong in regards to the label indicating that Saito and Cobb killed themselves in limbo. The time ran out and the machine brought them out of it, with their minds intact since they remembered their purpose and the fact that limbo wasn't real in the nick of time. Although it is very likely that they were about to kill themselves based on him grabbing the gun, but they didn't need to since the timer just ran out on its own.

But for the timer to have run out, it would need to have "felt like" they were in limbo for over 20 years.

 

[GitarooMan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't brain activity needed for a person to dream? If Fischer was dead, how could they jump into his projected limbo and populate it with Leo's subconscious? It would sort of be like trying to have a dinner party in a building that's been demolished, no?

He's not dead in the real world though? I don't know, just a thought.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Cobb doesn't "die" in level 1 in the van. He's already in limbo. They just show him in the seat lifeless with Arthur's reaction because Arthur has been left out of the loop since he's been in level 2 that whole time. He has no idea that Cobb went into limbo manually. He's already there, looking for Saito and had no intention to ride the kicks up.

So why does he end up on another shore? I mean...something had to happen. He was either going to drown in the van or succumb to the chef's knife in his chest.

It's also wrong in regards to the label indicating that Saito and Cobb killed themselves in limbo. The time ran out and the machine brought them out of it, with their minds intact since they remembered their purpose and the fact that limbo wasn't real in the nick of time. Although it is very likely that they were about to kill themselves based on him grabbing the gun, but they didn't need to since the timer just ran out on its own.

I just don't see how anyone can reconcile these two points. The camera is focused on the totem, but you CLEARLY see Saito rest his hand on the gun, and then bam, Cobb is back.

 

[beelzebozo]

But for the timer to have run out, it would need to have "felt like" they were in limbo for over 20 years.

only a jamaican olympic limbo champion could stay in limbo that long

 

[Anton Sugar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't brain activity needed for a person to dream? If Fischer was dead, how could they jump into his projected limbo and populate it with Leo's subconscious? It would sort of be like trying to have a dinner party in a building that's been demolished, no?

I'm trying to figure this out, too. I don't recall ever actually seeing them hook up to Fischer. I thought limbo was the "bottom" of your subconscious, but it also seems like it might just be one level lower.