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[Jason's Ultimatum]

Ariadne and Cobb are in Cobb's limbo (or level 4?) / (the scene where Cobb tells Mal he's sorry, etc) . Cobb stays behind to look for Saito while Ariadne jumps off the building and is brought back to reality. Maybe the sedatives wore off by the time she jumped off.

 

[Feep]

Kicks occur ON THE SAME LEVEL and send you UP A LEVEL. That's how it's explained in the film. Ariadne and Fischer experience freefall to go from Level 5 to Level 4. The snow fortress collapses so you go from Level 4 to Level 3. The freefall from the hotel takes them from Level 3 to Level 2. And the van hitting the water takes them from Level 2 to 'reality'.

No. This is not how it's explained in the film. There are innumerable examples that prove you wrong. Some of them:

1) In the very beginning, Leo is pushed backward into water, his "kick". This brings him from the lower level to the upper level. It occurred in the UPPER level.

2) Several characters, especially in the Snow Fortress, undergo freefall (after they cut the rope, to escape the avalanche). It has no effect.

3) There would be no dramatic tension. All this worry and drama over "Oh God, we can't shoot ourselves" would be ridiculous; the characters could just sit down and have someone tip them over.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Then why does each kick at the end of the heist occur in the same level to send them upwards?

 

[BobsRevenge]

Kicks occur ON THE SAME LEVEL and send you UP A LEVEL. That's how it's explained in the film. Ariadne and Fischer experience freefall to go from Level 5 to Level 4. The snow fortress collapses so they go from Level 4 to Level 3. The freefall from the hotel takes them from Level 3 to Level 2. And the van hitting the water takes them from Level 2 to 'reality'.

BUT it can go both ways. Things that happen in the levels above affect the levels below, yes, but in the heist, the kicks only go upwards.

Then why would it matter if inner ear equilibrium is impacted on the real level? Why bother with the special sedative?

edit: Actually, now that I think about it. Its not like they got kicked into the real world by something that happened in it. So the special sedative was completely unnecessary.

edit2: I believe the last one is done by the machine turning off.

 

[big ander]

Kicks occur ON THE SAME LEVEL and send you UP A LEVEL. That's how it's explained in the film. Ariadne and Fischer experience freefall to go from Level 5 to Level 4. The snow fortress collapses so they go from Level 4 to Level 3. The freefall from the hotel takes them from Level 3 to Level 2. And the van hitting the water takes them from Level 2 to 'reality'.

BUT it can go both ways. Things that happen in the levels above affect the levels below, yes, but in the heist, the kicks only go upwards.

No, the van hitting the water keeps them on level 2. They hit the water, then go ashore and wait for the timer to end.

 

[Feep]

Then why does each kick at the end of the heist occur in the same level to send them upwards?

It doesn't.

I'm unsure about exactly what brought Ariadne and Fischer out of limbo (them hitting the ground and dying would make sense to me, but the movie clearly shows them waking up as they were falling), but:

The elevator drop brought everyone from the snow fortress to the hotel, and

The van brought everyone from the hotel to the van.

Obviously, the van didn't bring everyone to reality. The characters were shown swimming out of the van to the surface, and sitting there. We never saw them get back to the plane, but presumably, it happened when the timer/sedative wore off. (Though you'd think the subconscious would swarm them again)

 

[ZephyrFate]

No, the van hitting the water keeps them on level 2. They hit the water, then go ashore and wait for the timer to end.

Well that still doesn't disprove every kick before that.

I think you didn't watch closely enough, Feep. The freefall from Level 5 wakes Ariadne up before the snow fortress collapses, and the snow fortress collapse sends her from Level 4 to Level 3, where she wakes up before the elevator simulates freefall, sending her from Level 3 to Level 2.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

edit: nvm

 

[big ander]

Then why does each kick at the end of the heist occur in the same level to send them upwards?

It doesn't. In Level 4, they're given kicks through falling/defibrillator so that when they die in limbo, they wake up there. In Level 3, they fall in the elevator to wake up there. In Level 2, they hit the water to wake up there.

 

[cnizzle06]

You guys are confusing me. I thought the kick brought them out of the next lower level, with the exception of limbo?

 

[DMczaf]

Someone linked JGL to the FFFFUUUUU ending pic :lol

http://twitter.com/hitRECordJoe

If you haven't seen #Inception don't click this link. If you have... RT @tempestadycalma: http://twitpic.com/26k9ub
9:26 PM Jul 18th via Echofon

 

[ZephyrFate]

It doesn't. In Level 4, they're given kicks through falling/defibrillator so that when they die in limbo, they wake up there. In Level 3, they fall in the elevator to wake up there. In Level 2, they hit the water to wake up there.

What? No! Fischer is resuscitated through the defibrillator on Level 4, yes, but the falling occurs SPECIFICALLY in Level 5 to bring Ariadne back up to Level 4.

http://i.imgur.com/th4AS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/th4AS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/th4AS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/th4AS.jpg
LOOK AT THIS PICTURE.

 

[ColonelColon]

Ariadne and Cobb are in Cobb's limbo (or level 4?) / (the scene where Cobb tells Mal he's sorry, etc) . Cobb stays behind to look for Saito while Ariadne jumps off the building and is brought back to reality. Maybe the sedatives wore off by the time she jumped off.

I think the sedatives wear off after about 10 hours in real time. Based on the amount of time that appears to elapse in Yusuf's dream from when it begins until Ariadne jumps, I don't think the sedatives could have possibly worn off. They would have needed to be in Yusuf's dream for several days for that to happen. Then again, I don't think the dream time was totally consistent.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

What? No! Fischer is resuscitated through the defibrillator on Level 4, yes, but the falling occurs SPECIFICALLY in Level 5 to bring Ariadne back up to Level 4.

Wait, there's a level 5 now? I thought there were only 4 levels, with the 4th being in Cobb's place and Mal stabs him?

 

[Feep]

Well that still doesn't disprove every kick before that.

I think you didn't watch closely enough, Feep. The freefall from Level 5 wakes Ariadne up before the snow fortress collapses, and the snow fortress collapse sends her from Level 4 to Level 3, where she wakes up before the elevator simulates freefall, sending her from Level 3 to Level 2.

Every single one of my earlier points still stands. As I said, I'm confused about the final sequence, but if you're correct, you have to explain all of them to me, including why the van didn't bring them to reality, why the freefall in Snow Land had no effect, why Leo's initial chair drop occurred in the upper layer, and why characters simply couldn't sit in a chair and tip themselves over to escape any level of the dream.

 

[FreezeSSC]

I would guess the sedation/limbo thing when dieing only effects you 1 level up?? when he said they would slip into limbo because of the sedatives they were only one the first level, but they didn't sedate themselves as they went lower so maybe it would have effected them??

 

[Talon]

Wait, there's a level 5 now? I thought there were only 4 levels, with the 4th being in Cobb's place and Mal stabs him?

Some people are calling reality the 1st level. It really should be the 0th level, but that's not a conversation worth having.

 

[Zoe]

Kicks occur ON THE SAME LEVEL and send you UP A LEVEL. That's how it's explained in the film.

No, kicks occur in the UPPER level. That's why there was that montage of them pushing JGL out of his chair during the training. A sleeping person is "kicked" in reality, and the body's natural response is to correct their orientation.

When the avalanche happens, they say they missed the kick and will have to wait till the next one. Which they explicitly said was the van hitting the water.

 

[Feep]

No, kicks occur in the UPPER level. That's why there was that montage of them pushing JGL out of his chair during the training. A sleeping person is "kicked" in reality, and the body's natural response is to correct their orientation.

When the avalanche happens, they say they missed the kick and will have to wait till the next one. Which they explicitly said was the van hitting the water.

This.

 

[big ander]

What? No! Fischer is resuscitated through the defibrillator on Level 4, yes, but the falling occurs SPECIFICALLY in Level 5 to bring Ariadne back up to Level 4.

http://i.imgur.com/th4AS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/th4AS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/th4AS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/th4AS.jpg
LOOK AT THIS PICTURE.

I see the picture. It's wrong. If the kick happened on the level you were on, they would have been sent up to Reality when the van hit the water. The kicks occur on the level above. Like when Cobb falls into the bath to be woken up.

 

[Igo]

You guys are overthinking it. A kick simply brings you back to the level on which the kick occurred.

 

[Zoe]

edit: Actually, now that I think about it. Its not like they got kicked into the real world by something that happened in it. So the special sedative was completely unnecessary.

The sedative was necessary because the dreams would be too unstable without it.

 

[Feep]

You guys are overthinking it. A kick simply brings you back to the level on which the kick occurred.

We know that. People are arguing against us.

 

[BobsRevenge]

The sedative was necessary because the dreams would be too unstable without it.

Special in that it left inner ear feeling intact. If you think about it that's quite a risk, considering they could potentially be kicked out accidentally.

Actually, I guess that isn't a risk because apparently by the movie's logic you can't be accidentally kicked. The few times it would happen don't occur. Inexplicably, mind you, but they don't.

edit: Well, except when Leo gets dunked at the beginning. So I guess it really is illogical.

edit2: Maybe it was worth the risk to give them another out by having the plane dive if something really went wrong? I guess Saito does own the airplane, so why not. Whatever. Its all so dumb I'm not sure why I bother. :lol

 

[gamemadmax]

So this are the 4 ways you get out from a dream....

1. Timer on the machine must run out.
2. You must die.
3. Effect of the sedative must wear off.
4. Get a Kick from the level above.

About the KICK - It's clearly explained that you must receive the kick from the level above and not in the same level.
This happens early in the movie when ARTHUR pushes COBB in the bathtub to get him out.



Heres how the team escape from different levels of dreams.

Getting out of Yusuf or Fischer's dream ??? Level 1 - They just wait so that the timer stops or the effect of sedative wear's off.

Getting out of Arthur's dream level 2 - Yusuf does the kick by falling/hitting the van in water.

Getting out of Eames dream level 3 - Arthur performs the kick by blowing the elevator for a fall.

Getting out of limbo/level 4 - Eames blow's up the fortress for a freefall.


Ok than why Ariadne and Fischer jump from the building ?
It's been told when sedated if somebody dies he/she will go into limbo.

I guess they took the LEAP OF FAITH

 

[ColtraineGF]

So this are the 4 ways you get out from a dream....

1. Timer on the machine must run out.
2. You must die.
3. Effect of the sedative must wear off.
4. Get a Kick from the level above.

About the KICK - It's clearly explained that you must receive the kick from the level above and not in the same level.
This happens early in the movie when ARTHUR pushes COBB in the bathtub to get him out.



Heres how the team escape from different levels of dreams.

Getting out of Yusuf or Fischer's dream ??? Level 1 - They just wait so that the timer stops or the effect of sedative wear's off.

Getting out of Arthur's dream level 2 - Yusuf does the kick by falling/hitting the van in water.

Getting out of Eames dream level 3 - Arthur performs the kick by blowing the elevator for a fall.

Getting out of limbo/level 4 - Eames blow's up the fortress for a freefall.


Ok than why Ariadne and Fischer jump from the building ?
It's been told when sedated if somebody dies he/she will go into limbo.

I think that in that case, they are trying for a number 2. I think it was said earlier that dying sends you up one level, unless you are under sedation in the level you're going to. Saito died on the first level, whose level above it(reality) had forced sedatives, so he ends up in Limbo (after Cobb gets out of it, but before Cobb re-enters it again by dying in the van by drowning, giving Saito time to reconstruct it.)

In Fischer's case, he had to end his 'sleep' (wasn't really dead) by dying in Limbo, and Ariadne had to get out by the same method, which they both do (falling off the building), at the same time as the defib. Then again, I'm not sure about the point of the snow fortress being destroyed in the first place. Unless Eames blew up the fortress just in case, using the timing of the music, to make sure they got out before the kick on the next level took place. He had only a rough estimate at the time of the kick, I think (headphones on Arthur's ears filtering down through two levels)

I may have to watch it again to confirm this, though.

 

[Feep]

I think that in that case, they are trying for a number 2. I think it was said earlier that dying sends you up one level, unless you are under sedation in the level you're going to. Saito died on the first level, whose level above it(reality) had forced sedatives, so he ends up in Limbo (after Cobb gets out of it, but before Cobb re-enters it again by dying in the van by drowning, giving Saito time to reconstruct it.)

In Fischer's case, he had to end his 'sleep' (wasn't really dead) by dying in Limbo, and Ariadne had to get out by the same method, which they both do (falling off the building), at the same time as the defib. Then again, I'm not sure about the point of the snow fortress being destroyed in the first place. Unless Eames blew up the fortress just in case, using the defibrillator as a signal of how much time they had down in Limbo, to make sure they were out of that lower 'level' for the next kick (the elevator). He had only a rough estimate at the time of the kick, I think (headphones on Arthur's ears filtering down through two levels)

I may have to watch it again to confirm this, though.

This would totally make sense, but as I confirmed on watching the second time, Ariadne wakes up DURING the fall, not as she hit the ground. She never hit the ground.

Maybe she had a heart attack during the fall, Mary Jane style :lol :lol

 

[Zoe]

Special in that it left inner ear feeling intact. If you think about it that's quite a risk, considering they could potentially be kicked out accidentally.

Actually, I guess that isn't a risk because apparently by the movie's logic you can't be accidentally kicked. The few times it would happen don't occur. Inexplicably, mind you, but they don't.

A plane ride is generally stable unless there's unexpected turbulence. Though yes, that would have been a risk.

All the tumbling of the van was kind of far fetched, but you could assume the seatbelts held them in well enough until the impact with the water. Even the impact sending them off the bridge wasn't strong enough or else JGL would have been kicked leaving everyone else stranded.

 

[Pinko Marx]

So, who was that asian kid in the begging of the movie? On the train, when they were trying to extract from Saito. He was obviously apart of the team, but they never mention him again.
Maybe...It was all his dream.

 

[ColtraineGF]

So, who was that asian kid in the begging of the movie? On the train, when they were trying to extract from Saito. He was obviously apart of the team, but they never mention him again.
Maybe...It was all his dream.

CONSPIRACY

Maybe he was just paid cold, hard American cash to help them out.

 

[Igo]

So, who was that asian kid in the begging of the movie? On the train, when they were trying to extract from Saito. He was obviously apart of the team, but they never mention him again.
Maybe...It was all his dream.

The equivalent of the flight stewardess probably.

 

[BobsRevenge]

So, who was that asian kid in the begging of the movie? On the train, when they were trying to extract from Saito. He was obviously apart of the team, but they never mention him again.
Maybe...It was all his dream.

He went with a different architect presumably. He did put the wrong rug into Saito's thing! So Leo switched him out for Juno.

You know, someone with absolutely no experience.

edit: Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong guy...

 

[Parham]

He went with a different architect presumably. He did put the wrong rug into Saito's thing! So Leo switched him out for Juno.

You know, someone with absolutely no experience.

edit: Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong guy...

You're thinking of Nash. Marx is referring to the asian kid who was monitoring the device during Saito's extraction.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

You guys are overthinking it. A kick simply brings you back to the level on which the kick occurred.

Goddamn. I can't believe I forgot that. Yeah, They were sleeping in the van and in the hotel. Totally makes sense.

I need to see this movie again since I'm forgetting everything. :lol

 

[Mr. Sam]

So, who was that asian kid in the begging of the movie? On the train, when they were trying to extract from Saito. He was obviously apart of the team, but they never mention him again.
Maybe...It was all his dream.

A paid accomplice, just like the air hostess.

 

[Pinko Marx]

CONSPIRACY

Maybe he was just paid cold, hard American cash to help them out.

The equivalent of the flight stewardess probably.

Yeah, I figured as much, but he seemed to have some sort of knowledge of things. I'd just like to know just how prevalent this dream technology is. This is one thing the movie never really answers well enough for me. Its well known enough for corporate CEOs and underground networks to know of it, but what about the rest of the world?

 

[big ander]

So, who was that asian kid in the begging of the movie? On the train, when they were trying to extract from Saito. He was obviously apart of the team, but they never mention him again.
Maybe...It was all his dream.

Obviously it was all James dream. Only a dumb little kid would think Phillipa is a real name for a girl.

 

[ThanksVision]

I found a script flaw, but this probably has been pointed out, unless I misunderstood.

Because they only need a kick to wake them up on the upper level, they wouldn't have needed any sort of kick at all in the snow level. But before Ariadne came up with her idea to follow Fischer Jr. into Limbo, Cobb and Eames were about to set up charges. Why would they need to do that?

Also, why wouldn't the first kick (Van falling off of bridge) woken up Arthur? He was only in the level underneath it.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Obviously it was all James dream. Only a dumb little kid would think Phillipa is a real name for a girl.

Just googled the name Philipa, hoping it'd have some sort of connection to mythology, similar to Ariadne's name.

Philippa is a given name meaning "lover of horses" or "horses' friend". Common alternative spellings include Filippa, Phillipa and, less often, Phillippa. It is the feminine form of the masculine name Philip. It is composed of the Greek elements philein (to love) and hippos (horse), and is derived from the name of Alexander the Great's father, the ancient Greek king, Philip II of Macedon (aka Philippos, Filippos, and Pilipos), who was an avid horse lover. The name is commonly shortened to the nicknames Pippa, Pippy, and Pip.[1] Notable people with the name Philippa include:

So...Idk maybe Mal and Dom were into horse sex.

 

[Pinko Marx]

I found a script flaw, but this probably has been pointed out, unless I misunderstood.

Because they only need a kick to wake them up on the upper level, they wouldn't have needed any sort of kick at all in the snow level. But before Ariadne came up with her idea to follow Fischer Jr. into Limbo, Cobb and Eames were about to set up charges. Why would they need to do that?

Also, why wouldn't the first kick (Van falling off of bridge) woken up Arthur? He was only in the level underneath it.

I think you need to be falling in both the level you are on, and the level above for the kick to be effective.

 

[Feep]

I think you need to be falling in both the level you are on, and the level above for the kick to be effective.

No.

See the beginning the movie (bathtub).

Also, the burning question of why the fuck Ariadne and Fischer jumped off the building is still unresolved, as I suspect it will always be. I think I may have to accept this as a continuity error.

 

[Pinko Marx]

No.

See the beginning the movie (bathtub).

Also, the burning question of why the fuck Ariadne and Fischer jumped off the building is still unresolved, as I suspect it will always be. I think I may have to accept this as a continuity error.

Yeah but that was WITHOUT sedative. Any ol thing will wake you up normally.

 

[Zoe]

Yeah but that was WITHOUT sedative. Any ol thing will wake you up normally.

The sedative was supposed to leave your inner ear function alone.

They were forced into improvising. The impact/freefall probably wasn't as effective as they thought it'd be.

 

[Inferno313]

No.

See the beginning the movie (bathtub).

Also, the burning question of why the fuck Ariadne and Fischer jumped off the building is still unresolved, as I suspect it will always be. I think I may have to accept this as a continuity error.

Water was involved too, which may change some things. Maybe he drowned in the dream and woke up.

 

[BobsRevenge]

No.

See the beginning the movie (bathtub).

Also, the burning question of why the fuck Ariadne and Fischer jumped off the building is still unresolved, as I suspect it will always be. I think I may have to accept this as a continuity error.

I tried to explain this earlier. They were able to kill themselves because the sedative was weak. They obviously had to summon up the machine and the sedative, so they just used a sedative that wouldn't keep them under in limbo if they killed themselves.

edit: Of course this is assumed to fill in a plot hole. Because otherwise, how does it work?

 

[Deleted member 22576]

The more I read and the think about this movie, the more I realize it makes absolutely no sense.
Still a great movie though.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So, Fischer dying on level 3 sends him to Limbo. But Fischer dying in Level 4/limbo sends him up a level.

Is that correct? If so...then dying limbo sends you up a level? And dying on ANY level will send you to limbo, unless you're already in limbo?

 

[Kraftwerk]

anyone know the name of the song when Cobb and Fischer are in the hotel bathroom?

 

[BobsRevenge]

So, Fischer dying on level 3 sends him to Limbo. But Fischer dying in Level 4/limbo sends him up a level.

Is that correct? If so...then dying limbo sends you up a level? And dying on ANY level will send you to limbo, unless you're already in limbo?

It's all in the sedative. It determines if you go up a level or get sent to limbo. So if they kill themselves and go up a level you have to assume the sedative isn't strong enough to keep them in limbo.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

The one thing I don't like about the movie is how widespread the sedated lucid dreaming is.