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[Pinko Marx]

I'm sorry, but the ending is a contrived gimmick. It felt quite transparent as soon as I walked out of the theater. My gut feeling is that Nolan wanted an ending that brought ambiguity and post-film dialogue whether or not the narrative supported it.

Here are my reasons:

1. The ending shot. Cobbs didn't care about his totem at the end. He spun it and ran off. It's obvious Cobbs spun the top so Nolan could get a nice ending shot. If Cobbs didn't care, why should the audience? The spinning top was for the audience and not for Cobbs. It's equivalent to a bursting hand coming out of the grave at the end of a horror film. I feel like it cheapened the movie. The right way of doing it would have been a final shot of Cobbs looking intently at the spinning top.

2. The timing of the spin. Why not spin the top as soon as he wakes up? Or maybe after he passes immigration? Why did Cobbs decide to spin the top at his house? I think the answer here is that Nolan wanted the maximum dramatic effect for his "ambiguity" ending. We see earlier in the film Cobbs spinning his top as soon as he wakes up from the Chemist lab.

3. The convenient totem A perpetually spinning top as a totem doesn't make any sense. A weighted dice makes sense because only the owner knows about its unique properties. In dreams, the physics mirror real life. Why would a dream suddenly defy the physics of a spinning top? Cobbs' totem is convenient for the ending.

*GASP* Some things are only in the movie for dramatic effect? NO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I've been wondering since I saw the film the first time why the kicks had to synchronized? The kicks in the first dream within a dream certainly weren't. I think Pinko Marx is on to something when he said that you have to be falling in more than one dream level to get the kick. I think the reason they need to be sync'd is that you have to be falling in all levels simultaneously for it to work due to the compound Yusef created. They didn't know before hand that the sedation was so strong that they'd end up in limbo if they died but they did know it had to be super strong to be stable enough for them to go down three levels. It would totally explain the need to blow up the snow fortress.

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

It all comes from that last shot. Think about this, say that final shot of the top never happens; the ending is clearly real, the audience leaves satisfied watching a great movie and there is no debate. Add a few seconds of extra footage and it changes EVERYTHING. That one extra shot now leaves the audience gasping, you leave the theater with your mind racing, a million new possibilities popping up in your head. You talk about it to everyone just to see how others perceived the ending. All cause of one tiny shot, and that is the inception to the audience. Nolan gave us one pointless extra shot and cause of what we saw during the movie that could suggest it was a dream, that last shot put an idea in our brains that the movie could be so much more than what we saw. An idea spreads, its like the plague, in this case throughout the internet... that ending is pure genius.

Brilliantly told, thanks for this.

I've been tossing in idea around in my head about the film being a multi-faceted jewel, where you stare into it and see reflections and reflections of reality bouncing around within ...

What you've written above helps me no end. That last shot is perfect, vital to the eventual effect of the film.

 

[Chaser]

EDIT: @ marathonfool's three questions

I think you're missing the point in some respect.

The reason Cobb doesn't pay any attention to the totem after spinning it is he doesn't care - he accepts this place as reality. This is also evidenced by the fact that he allows himself to see his children's faces, something he was adamant against until he reached them in reality.

The timing may seem convenient, but it makes sense. He wakes up on a plane in descent and then has to go through the motions at the airport. Neither are great opportunities for spinning a top.

As for the top itself - I do agree it seems convenient. The endless spinning itself might be a red herring though, as we only see it act in that way when in limbo.

 

[Zoe]

I still say you need a simultaneous fall in the level you're on and the level above while under heavy sedatives. It only makes sense.

That didn't seem to be the case during training.

I've been wondering since I saw the film the first time why the kicks had to synchronized?

If they weren't kicked out of the third level, then the kick in the first level would only work for JGL and the rest would be sent to limbo.

 

[ColonelColon]

But death sends them into limbo. Both Saito and Fischer fell into limbo when they died.

They weren't simultaneously kicked on a higher level.

 

[Deku]

I guess it was all part of the plan. When Fischer dies Cobb says the mission is over and tells Eames to plant the charges. I still don't get why. After Ardiane comes up with the limbo idea.

plant charges to kick back out. I know movie cuts to the vault when he says that, because it cut to Eame's POV who said he 'really wanted to see what's inside'.

Eames did eventually plant those charges, and he blew up the fort.

 

[Korey]

plant charges to kick back out. I know movie cuts to the vault when he says that, because it cut to Eame's POV who said he 'really wanted to see what's inside'.

Eames did eventually plant those charges, and he blew up the fort.

Right, but you can't kick yourself out. The level above (Arthur in this case) kicks you out. Which is why blowing up the hospital doesn't make sense.

 

[Saint Gregory]

If they weren't kicked out of the third level, then the kick in the first level would only work for JGL and the rest would be sent to limbo.

That's not exactly what I was asking. Wouldn't it have been far safer for JGL to kick everyone from the third level and hang out in the lobby bar for a while and then have Yusef kick them to the first level whenever he was ready? The initial intent was clearly to have everyone falling in every level at the same time. If everything had gone to plan the snow fortress would have collapsed with everyone inside>JGL gets into room 528 with everyone else and blows out the floor below>Yusef drops the van off the bridge>Everyone wakes up in the real world (maybe, I'm not sure about that last part).

 

[MiamiWesker]

That's not exactly what I was asking. Wouldn't it have been far safer for JGL to kick everyone from the third level and hang out in the lobby bar for a while and then have Yusef kick them to the first level whenever he was ready? The initial intent was clearly to have everyone falling in every level at the same time. If everything had gone to plan the snow fortress would have collapsed with everyone inside>JGL gets into room 528 with everyone else and blows out the floor below>Yusef drops the van off the bridge>Everyone wakes up in the real world (maybe, I'm not sure about that last part).

I believe they spent a week in level 1, or so the movie implies.

 

[Deku]

Right, but you can't kick yourself out. The level above (Arthur in this case) kicks you out. Which is why blowing up the hospital doesn't make sense.

That's not how it is. blowing up the fort creates a sensation of falling which ties into the dream above.

If they could wake up from actions performed above, arthur's kick would also be pointless. All they needed was for Yusuf to hit the water.

It's a plot contrivance, but it's logical in that contrived way.

 

[marathonfool]

EDIT: @ marathonfool's three questions

I think you're missing the point in some respect.

The reason Cobb doesn't pay any attention to the totem after spinning it is he doesn't care - he accepts this place as reality. This is also evidenced by the fact that he allows himself to see his children's faces, something he was adamant against until he reached them in reality.

The timing may seem convenient, but it makes sense. He wakes up on a plane in descent and then has to go through the motions at the airport. Neither are great opportunities for spinning a top.

As for the top itself - I do agree it seems convenient. The endless spinning itself might be a red herring though, as we only see it act in that way when in limbo.

If Cobbs doesn't care, why did he spin it in the first place? My argument is that the narrative didn't call for it. Nolan, the director, called for it. It was too transparent in what he was doing.

I can't buy neither are great opportunities to spin. In addition, it counters your argument that Cobbs didn't care about the top. It's demonstrated in the film Cobbs finds it important to know whether he is in a dream or reality. For example, his relationship with his wife and how he immediately spun his top when he woke up from the Chemist lab.

As for the top. I have to believe it works as Cobbs claims because that's how he figures out whether he's in a dream or reality. Whether or not we are shown doesn't matter.

 

[Zoe]

That's not exactly what I was asking. Wouldn't it have been far safer for JGL to kick everyone from the third level and hang out in the lobby bar for a while and then have Yusef kick them to the first level whenever he was ready?

How would Yusef know he's ready?

 

[Saint Gregory]

I believe they spent a week in level 1, or so the movie implies.

You're right, that was the original plan before they realized that Fisher had projected the A-Team.

How would Yusef know he's ready?

They knew the rate that time would pass on each level, they could have simply decided on a particular time at which they expected they'd be done. That's essentially what they did anyway but their plans didn't work out.

 

[KHarvey16]

If Cobbs doesn't care, why did he spin it in the first place? My argument is that the narrative didn't call for it. Nolan, the director, called for it. It was too transparent in what he was doing.

I can't buy neither are great opportunities to spin. In addition, it counters your argument that Cobbs didn't care about the top. It's demonstrated in the film Cobbs finds it important to know whether he is in a dream or reality. For example, his relationship with his wife and how he immediately spun his top when he woke up from the Chemist lab.

As for the top. I have to believe it works as Cobbs claims it does because that's how he figures out whether he's in a dream or reality. Whether or not we are shown doesn't matter.

What happened to make him forget the top?

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Speaking of which; it wouldn't make sense for Ariadne to jump instead of shooting Fischer and then herself if all it takes to get out of limbo is to die. She had the gun and shot Mal with it, but she still threw Fischer and herself off of a building instead of taking the easy way out. (If death is the how they got out)

 

[Korey]

That's not how it is. blowing up the fort creates a sensation of falling which ties into the dream above.

They never stated that in the movie. Kicking out of a dream only requires an action in the level above. See: Cobb and the bathtub, and I believe they demonstrated it a few times in the lab in Paris.

Falling backwards, like in real life, makes the body panic and wake up. It doesn't matter what you're doing in the dream itself.

If they could wake up from actions performed above, arthur's kick would also be pointless. All they needed was for Yusuf to hit the water.

It's a plot contrivance, but it's logical in that contrived way.

You need a kick per level for it to work. Ie you have to wake up in Level 2 before you can wake up in Level 1. That's why they didn't wake up after the first Van kick.

Speaking of which; it wouldn't make sense for Ariadne to jump instead of shooting Fischer and then herself if all it takes to get out of limbo is to die. She had the gun and shot Mal with it, but she still threw Fischer and herself off of a building instead of taking the easy way out. (If death is the how they got out)

Well, maybe she just found it easier to die by jumping. It's not really important.

 

[Deku]

How would Yusef know he's ready?

He wouldn't... Arthur missed Yusuf's first kick *hitting the railing*

Usually the person one layer above warns those below by playing headphones on the dreamer and playing music. The kick happens when music ends.

Also, in the Cobol job, they had the Japanese teenage do it in the real world. They all went in on their final job. So I do wonder if they knew this was going to be a 10 hour sleep.

 

[marathonfool]

What happened to make him forget the top?

If I recall correctly, he went to see his kids and saw their faces. I have no doubts it was real due to the sloppy fingerprints of Nolan.

 

[KHarvey16]

If I recall correctly, he went to see his kids and saw their faces.

Exactly. Why doesn't that make perfect thematic sense to you?

 

[Deku]

You need a kick per level for it to work. Ie you have to wake up in Level 2 before you can wake up in Level 1. That's why they didn't wake up after the first Van kick.


Well, maybe she just found it easier to die by jumping. It's not really important.

Yes the kick in Eames dream is for whoever went into Limbo. In this case, it was intended for Fisher.

He knew Mal would capture Fischer down there.

Cobb needed to enter. We don't know in what way, Ariadne interjected before then and suggested they enter together to find Fischer

 

[marathonfool]

Exactly. Why doesn't that make perfect thematic sense to you?

Because the "ambiguous" ending was unnecessary and a gimmick. It left a bitter taste in otherwise a great film I enjoyed.

 

[KHarvey16]

Because the "ambiguous" ending was unnecessary and a gimmick. It left a bitter taste in otherwise a great film I enjoyed.

You're determined to be mad at that. What I'm telling you is that the idea that he doesn't care if what's happening is real or a dream is one of the main themes of the movie. You're so intent on berating some perceived gimmick that you're missing the point.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Because the "ambiguous" ending was unnecessary and a gimmick. It left a bitter taste in otherwise a great film I enjoyed.

As much as I loved the film both times I saw it I have to agree with this. If the film had simply ended with Cobb hugging his kids I doubt anyone would have complained but Chris Nolan just had to get his typical headfuckery in

 

[Deku]

As much as I loved the film both times I saw it I have to agree with this. If the film had simply ended with Cobb hugging his kids I doubt anyone would have complained but Chris Nolan just had to get his typical headfuckery in

as I'm mainly in the 'literal' 'it was real' camp. I would have appreciated a clear ending.

But I also enjoy the mindfuck scenarios.

 

[marathonfool]

You're determined to be mad at that. What I'm telling you is that the idea that he doesn't care if what's happening is real or a dream is one of the main themes of the movie. You're so intent on berating some perceived gimmick that you're missing the point.

It's clear Cobbs does care. That's why he spun the top in the first place. Once he confirmed it was real by seeing his childrens' faces, he didn't need the top to confirm it.

 

[Deku]

It's clear Cobbs does care. That's why he spun the top in the first place. Once he confirmed it was real by seeing his childrens' faces, he didn't need the top to confirm it.

That's also my interpretation. Some disagree, but they don't use that scene as a supporting evidence.

 

[vareon]

As much as I loved the film both times I saw it I have to agree with this. If the film had simply ended with Cobb hugging his kids I doubt anyone would have complained but Chris Nolan just had to get his typical headfuckery in

It's the opposite for me. I got a bit irritated on the first time, but on second viewing I loved it. It made perfect sense to me.

Personally I think he just wanted to spin it--kinda like people like spinning pencils on their hand. He doesn't particularly care about it being a totem or anything, he's reunited with his children anyway.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

If Cobbs doesn't care, why did he spin it in the first place? My argument is that the narrative didn't call for it. Nolan, the director, called for it. It was too transparent in what he was doing.

I can't buy neither are great opportunities to spin. In addition, it counters your argument that Cobbs didn't care about the top. It's demonstrated in the film Cobbs finds it important to know whether he is in a dream or reality. For example, his relationship with his wife and how he immediately spun his top when he woke up from the Chemist lab.

As for the top. I have to believe it works as Cobbs claims because that's how he figures out whether he's in a dream or reality. Whether or not we are shown doesn't matter.

I agree,whose to he doesn't care? He spun it before seeing his children, I don't see whats so difficult to understand about that. He spun it, his children caught his attention and opted to embrace them after such a long time. We don't know what he did after that, he could have went back to the table to see if it kept spinning or didn't, but he wanted to see hold his children there in that moment.

 

[LongDongJunon]

 

[Saint Gregory]

It's the opposite for me. I got a bit irritated on the first time, but on second viewing I loved it. It made perfect sense to me.

Personally I think he just wanted to spin it--kinda like people like spinning pencils on their hand. He doesn't particularly care about it being a totem or anything, he's reunited with his children anyway.

It didn't really irritate me either time, it was more of a "oh jeez, was this really necessary" type of thing (in fact I think I said that out loud the first time) since it's not like the film didn't already give you tons to contemplate.
That brings up another thing I was wondering about though - What exactly did Saito promise Cobb in exchange for inception? Did he promise to clear all his charges or did he simply promise that he could "go home and see his children"? Is it possible that Cobb could still be on the run in a sequel?

 

[XMonkey]

Clear his charges, Cobb says as much in the film to his father-in-law.

 

[devilhawk]

It didn't really irritate me either time, it was more of a "oh jeez, was this really necessary" type of thing (in fact I think I said that out loud the first time) since it's not like the film didn't already give you tons to contemplate.
That brings up another thing I was wondering about though - What exactly did Saito promise Cobb in exchange for inception? Did he promise to clear all his charges or did he simply promise that he could "go home and see his children"? Is it possible that Cobb could still be on the run in a sequel?

I took the fact that he said "go home and see his children" to be another ambiguous statement. If he was in a dream the reason he couldn't see his children had nothing to do with the authorities.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Yeah, I'm going to have to give the film a third run. Dammit.

 

[RBelong2Us]

He spun it because it's a natural instinct for him, what's so hard to get about that. He spun it and then saw his kids, seeing their faces was more
important to him than seeing the result of the totem.

This thread is full of people over thinking a lot of the film.

 

[Korey]

They don't need to spell EVERYTHING out. His charges were cleared and he was able to reenter the country without fear of being imprisoned.

 

[Deku]

We also don't know how serious his charges were.

Likely some sort of domestic abuse charge, plus a warrant for fleeing country or something.

Unlikely they could go for murder when she committed suicide. Basically Mal's plan wasn't to get Cobb arrested, but to have his kids taken away from him.

His charges likely stem from him fleeing the country and avoiding whatever domestic charges may have been brought against him.

 

[vareon]

It didn't really irritate me either time, it was more of a "oh jeez, was this really necessary" type of thing (in fact I think I said that out loud the first time) since it's not like the film didn't already give you tons to contemplate.

Ah yes, it's kinda like this. I wonder whether I will enjoy the movie more if it had a closed ending (it fell or it spun perfectly), but I kinda like it this way.

That brings up another thing I was wondering about though - What exactly did Saito promise Cobb in exchange for inception? Did he promise to clear all his charges or did he simply promise that he could "go home and see his children"? Is it possible that Cobb could still be on the run in a sequel?

If there's one thing I didn't like in this movie, it's that COBOL engineering thingy. Weren't really used, IMO.

 

[RBelong2Us]

What? Did you totally miss the part where the scene of the suicide looked like a struggle?

 

[Saint Gregory]

What? Did you totally miss the part where the scene of the suicide looked like a struggle?

And the fact that Mal filed papers with her lawyer saying that Cobb was trying to kill her.

 

[marathonfool]

What? Did you totally miss the part where the scene of the suicide looked like a struggle?

Mal planned to frame Cobb for her death. She wanted to force him to jump. That is so cruel.

 

[Blackhead]

Wow
36 pages of theories? Goddam. Has it been suggested yet that Cobbs went deeper into his own mind to do an inception ie plant the idea that he was actually free so that he would finally believe it and get rid of the guilt. So in the end it doesn't matter whether it's a dream or not because Cobbs believes it's all real?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Wow
36 pages of theories? Goddam. Has it been suggested yet that Cobbs went deeper into his own mind to do an inception ie plant the idea that he was actually free so that he would finally believe it and get rid of the guilt. So in the end it doesn't matter whether it's a dream or not because Cobbs believes it's all real?

dunno if there's enough there to suggest something quite that extreme. possible, but I think a bit extreme.

 

[speedpop]

So I watched the movie last night, low and behold I have 3-4 vivid dreams when I fall asleep.

Those of you who wanted to see a "surreal" take in this film are ridiculous. The only time I ever recall having a surreal dream was when I was lucid dreaming. Outside of that, every other dream seems quite realistic within a certain degree.

I can remember two of the dreams I had; one of them had Stephen Fry in it, and I was drinking an assortment of wine with him as we were walking through fields upon fields of vineyards. The second dream had my brother withdrawing thousands of my money out of my bank account so he could gamble at the casino. Both dreams were not surreal, they simply had aspects to them where the possibilities of such occasions were outlandish and improbable.

 

[Saint Gregory]

So I watched the movie last night, low and behold I have 3-4 vivid dreams when I fall asleep.

Those of you who wanted to see a "surreal" take in this film are ridiculous. The only time I ever recall having a surreal dream was when I was lucid dreaming. Outside of that, every other dream seems quite realistic within a certain degree.

I can remember two of the dreams I had; one of them had Stephen Fry in it, and I was drinking an assortment of wine with him as we were walking through fields upon fields of vineyards. The second dream had my brother withdrawing thousands of my money out of my bank account so he could gamble at the casino. Both dreams were not surreal, they simply had aspects to them where the possibilities of such occasions were outlandish and improbable.

Thank God, after all the criticism about that aspect of the film I was begining to believe that everyone was having some awesome Salvador Dali inspired dreams but me :lol

 

[Twilight Princess]

guys, we're all subconcious projections of some douchebag thats in limbo, we have to go back!!!!

 

[Affeinvasion]

Did anyone shout at the beginning of this movie: It's Jack! He survived!

Also why is Cobb young and Saito is old in Limbo? Is it just because Cobb knows he isn't really old...and did it really take him like 80 years to find the guy in a realm where you can do/design anything?

 

[Inferno313]

So I watched the movie last night, low and behold I have 3-4 vivid dreams when I fall asleep.

Those of you who wanted to see a "surreal" take in this film are ridiculous. The only time I ever recall having a surreal dream was when I was lucid dreaming. Outside of that, every other dream seems quite realistic within a certain degree.

I can remember two of the dreams I had; one of them had Stephen Fry in it, and I was drinking an assortment of wine with him as we were walking through fields upon fields of vineyards. The second dream had my brother withdrawing thousands of my money out of my bank account so he could gamble at the casino. Both dreams were not surreal, they simply had aspects to them where the possibilities of such occasions were outlandish and improbable.

Yay! Someone else who's dreams aren't Kauffman flicks!

<3 Kauffman.

 

[timetokill]

He spun it because it's a natural instinct for him, what's so hard to get about that. He spun it and then saw his kids, seeing their faces was more
important to him than seeing the result of the totem.

As I said so many pages ago:

- He spun it because the sight of his kids on the grass there instantly made him question his surroundings. It called back to that dream he went to where he couldn't see their faces.

- When the kids turn around, THAT IS HIS PROOF that he's in reality. He doesn't need the totem anymore.

- Unfortunately, since we don't personally have that connection with Cobb's kids and those memories, we still do need the totem. Nolan knows this so he plays with the audience at the end. It's akin to a knowing wink.

 

[BobsRevenge]

*GASP* Some things are only in the movie for dramatic effect? NO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.

There is a virtue in trying to keep it less transparent. In trying to make it not feel contrived.

edit: Pretty sure Cobb was suspected of murder.

edit 2: And for all you guys know he was only able to see his kids because his subconscious finally allows him to.