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[SPOILERS] Persona 5 Spoiler Thread | Steal your heart; steel yourself
- Thread starter Nachos
- Start date
ShadowSoldier89
Member
this new game plus replay is reminding me of a lot of shit that slipped my mind during the really long first play. Glad I'm not fast forwarding through.
Makoto's development before palace 3 is so good. All her struggles with Kobayakawa. The argument with Ann and Ryuji, with Ann basically just calling her right out. Her sister basically trying to put her in line and control her future. Then her encounter with Akechi which ends with her voice cracking as she says "Why does everyone get on my case.."
Man, her fucking up so bad with Kaneshiro really makes sense with everything that leads in to it.
EDIT: And getting close to starting palace 3, shes pretty clearly already hoping to see the thieves as just
Makoto's development before palace 3 is so good. All her struggles with Kobayakawa. The argument with Ann and Ryuji, with Ann basically just calling her right out. Her sister basically trying to put her in line and control her future. Then her encounter with Akechi which ends with her voice cracking as she says "Why does everyone get on my case.."
Man, her fucking up so bad with Kaneshiro really makes sense with everything that leads in to it.
EDIT: And getting close to starting palace 3, shes pretty clearly already hoping to see the thieves as just
There's a lot of great development for her before she joins, which is nice.
Something I noticed on my second playthrough(Well I think I might have noticed, but at that point in time you wouldn't know who she is). I wanted to read something during the day in the first month because on NG+ you have a lot of dead days at the start, so I went to the library with that intention. Makoto takes up the entire bloody reading table up. If you talk to her she's annoyed about everything that happens. Plus you can find two kind of creepy "fanboys" of her talking about her reading habits.
I was really disappointed that Haru didn't get the same treatment. I went out of my way looking round the school in my NG+ playthrough trying to find something, anything that could have made her feel less.... Tacked on. Didn't find much at all until September/October. I think it's really sad considering I don't think she's a bad character(besides the awful English voice anyway), but the game totally doesn't do her justice.
Yea, I first noticed it while running around in Central Street. I saw this talk bubble moving around and went to check since I talked to every NPC at the time. Suddenly, I noticed it was her with a magazine. I went to a few other locations and there she was. That was quite a charming moment. I think that made Makoto instantly likeable to me cuz she looked so bad at tailing someone.
I think in the school you had to wait a few moments before she would pop up on a floor, but the best place to see her was on Central Street. She'd show up right by the bookstore. I wish share functions on this game worked. I spent like 15 minutes just messing with her in different areas just to see her trying to act all stealthy following me around.
Hilariously cute.
I did a lot more running about on NG+ since I had a lot of dead time during the opening months and I found the following things with the logic in the game.
- She always takes a few moments to show up because she runs in from a door or entrance. Central Street she runs from the main entrance left of the book store. In the school she runs from a door you can't actually in in (it's to the left of your class room, and the same location on every floor).
- She paroles a different area every day.
- Depending where you find her, and how close you are to the events of dungeon 3 she says different things.
- Her path-finding is awful in some places. If you run past her, she's programmed to run off screen and come back, but to do this she literally goes around the outside of the map, as if she's a car on a road or something...
chrominance
Member
Oh right, duh. For some reason I thought selling out your teammates to Sae resulted in a different bad end, but clearly I'm thinking about a much later decision in the game.
She showed up outside the Shibuya hangout once and I was like "oh fuck Ryuji's loud as shit she's totally going to overhear everything."
Also, when you say the pathfinding is "awful," I think you really mean "adorable." I honestly think that's her trying to be sneaky.
I like how the first time you explore the city with Ryuji you can talk to gang members trying to rope you into their drug scheme which doesn't show up for a few months.
I wish they did something similar to Makoto with Haru. You first see her in July with the fireworks festival but don't interact with her and from that point on she shows up a handful of times to no real impact. Could have done something with the Hawaii trip since she was there too.
I'll agree to disagree there. xD
It's the same with Madarame too, you can find people talking about him a bit before that even starts up. Medjed gets mentioned quite a bit before the events with Futaba, too. Hell Mishima even says he followed them up until they disappointed him.
There's a lot of good attention to detail to be honest.
I agree about Haru though, I said the same thing above. I wish you could have found her a few times around the school, but I didn't find her.
You see Haru during the Fireworks Festival, the school entrance and the Hawaii trip though.
But nothing beats Makoto following you with that magazine lol.
I remember thinking the gang dialogue lines were about a Mementos quest I couldn't get to trigger.
Nearly finished the game.
I quite enjoyed the journey in Persona 5; definitely, unlike the other two titles in this series that most resemble it, it has the most kinetic energy in terms of its plot and surprisingly packs quite a lot of things to 'see' and 'do' that makes the playtime - I'm sitting around 72 hours, about to enter into the very last dungeon - seem both more and less than you actually thought you've accomplished.
More, because you do feel like you've seen quite a bit of story; less, because it's so enjoyable that you don't really end up feeling like you've actually been playing for as long as the clock says you have.
That said...
I interestingly feel like the game has a combination of both bloat and rushed development in different factors.
The number of party members that you have in the key group honestly feels like it's as large as it is for the sake of being the same size as P3 and P4. There is actually a very warm and awesome moment in the early chapters of this game where your core party consists of Ann, Ryuji, Yusuke, Makoto, Morgana and yourself, and the core thief group feels "cohesive". They are mobilizing well as a unit and have enough chemistry to carry the game well.
However, the moment you get the addition of Futaba and Haru, the game feels diluted. I like both characters and can appreciate that Futaba actually plays an important enough role in the story to warrant her inclusion, but Haru especially feels superfluous. It feels like the core group could have had more development - and thus perhaps feel 'closer' as a group - if the game was comfortable in having less party members and simply more time to flesh out its core cast.
Where the rushed development kicks in is how quickly things ramp up from the 5th dungeon onwards. Stuff just seems to push forward, with tons of skipped days and the event that locks you out of going to school, that makes you feel a bit divorced from the events that are going on around you.
While it makes sense, plot-wise, it sometimes feels like Atlus ran out of time or patience to really pack in those last few months with more group events or perhaps even some 'filler' villains to pad out some cast development.
Otherwise, still a great game. I don't know if I would rank it above Persona 4 on an 'enjoyment' level. It's definitely the mechanically better game, with the RPG aspect of its gameplay much more fleshed out and better realized.
I quite enjoyed the journey in Persona 5; definitely, unlike the other two titles in this series that most resemble it, it has the most kinetic energy in terms of its plot and surprisingly packs quite a lot of things to 'see' and 'do' that makes the playtime - I'm sitting around 72 hours, about to enter into the very last dungeon - seem both more and less than you actually thought you've accomplished.
More, because you do feel like you've seen quite a bit of story; less, because it's so enjoyable that you don't really end up feeling like you've actually been playing for as long as the clock says you have.
That said...
I interestingly feel like the game has a combination of both bloat and rushed development in different factors.
The number of party members that you have in the key group honestly feels like it's as large as it is for the sake of being the same size as P3 and P4. There is actually a very warm and awesome moment in the early chapters of this game where your core party consists of Ann, Ryuji, Yusuke, Makoto, Morgana and yourself, and the core thief group feels "cohesive". They are mobilizing well as a unit and have enough chemistry to carry the game well.
However, the moment you get the addition of Futaba and Haru, the game feels diluted. I like both characters and can appreciate that Futaba actually plays an important enough role in the story to warrant her inclusion, but Haru especially feels superfluous. It feels like the core group could have had more development - and thus perhaps feel 'closer' as a group - if the game was comfortable in having less party members and simply more time to flesh out its core cast.
Where the rushed development kicks in is how quickly things ramp up from the 5th dungeon onwards. Stuff just seems to push forward, with tons of skipped days and the event that locks you out of going to school, that makes you feel a bit divorced from the events that are going on around you.
While it makes sense, plot-wise, it sometimes feels like Atlus ran out of time or patience to really pack in those last few months with more group events or perhaps even some 'filler' villains to pad out some cast development.
Otherwise, still a great game. I don't know if I would rank it above Persona 4 on an 'enjoyment' level. It's definitely the mechanically better game, with the RPG aspect of its gameplay much more fleshed out and better realized.
You do, but for five seconds. At the Fireworks festival, she gets into the car, Makoto mentions she recognised her and that's it.
Seeing her in front of the school doing gardening, and Hawaii is technically part of the "Dungeon 5" arc, so I don't think that really counts.
I think he means actually at school, like you can run into Makoto even before you have full access to the full dungeon or the starving artists at the Square before you meet Yusuke. Sad too, since she totally could have used more screen time before and during Palace 5. That or she needed to be part of a duel add during a dungeon similar to Ann and Ryuji.
Would have been neat if she just randomly popped at the rooftop in one of your meetings or you saw her gardening when you go to a meeting there..
Once I discovered fake Igor I was like: Oh, so this is why she says "This is truly an unjust game... Your chances of winning are almost none. But if my voice is reaching you, there may yet be a possibility open to you..."
I too thought that the person that had written the list from the Strength arcana was a previous Velvet Room assistant.
That would have been neat for Haru.
I also thought that they were the previous assistants in a different form instead of two halves of the same person. Loved that whole reveal from execution to fusion to the Igor reveal.
Crimsonlink
Member
Well I finished the game and its easily my GOTY so far. I feel the ending could have gone much better and was a really rushed but satisfactory in the end. Zelda and other high production games seem to have suffered from this.
The plot and combat were a huge improvement from P4G and I loved the music so much too. The graphics suffered from being a cross gen title and probably one of the last cross gen titles for that matter but still nothing to complain about with no tearing and solid performance.
I did feel social links took a step back in some regards but overall there were good social links. Romance I feel took the biggest step back with the failure of introducing romance well into the canon plot and just being there. There was also a bias towards Kawakimi and her maid trope. She basically has one of the most useful S Links ability ever and she gets all the exclusive student moments such as the beach and school festival as an adult romance while the rest of the adult romances do not.
I'll be going over all the Social link characters in another post but here is Jokers at the very least.
Joker: Probably my favorite MC which was surprising since I loved P4G's protag so much. I loved how he actually had a VA that talked and the only thing missing was him voicing out the conversation lines when he speaks to the group. Like damn I would love it if he actually said "savage" when Futaba was making fun of Yusuke/Ryuji.
Atlus if you are gonna Mass Effect your conversation lines, voice them out too. MC should be silent sure, but 80% can work better than 90% of the time. Switching persona in battle and calling out attacks don't count imo. Don't be lazy for P6/P5 Crimson
There were points where I felt Joker should have put his foot down as leader such as that dumb spat between Ryuji and Mona but plot and shit so its understandable.
Now to write down like 20 different paragraphs for all the S links and romances for the girls.
The plot and combat were a huge improvement from P4G and I loved the music so much too. The graphics suffered from being a cross gen title and probably one of the last cross gen titles for that matter but still nothing to complain about with no tearing and solid performance.
I did feel social links took a step back in some regards but overall there were good social links. Romance I feel took the biggest step back with the failure of introducing romance well into the canon plot and just being there. There was also a bias towards Kawakimi and her maid trope. She basically has one of the most useful S Links ability ever and she gets all the exclusive student moments such as the beach and school festival as an adult romance while the rest of the adult romances do not.
I'll be going over all the Social link characters in another post but here is Jokers at the very least.
Joker: Probably my favorite MC which was surprising since I loved P4G's protag so much. I loved how he actually had a VA that talked and the only thing missing was him voicing out the conversation lines when he speaks to the group. Like damn I would love it if he actually said "savage" when Futaba was making fun of Yusuke/Ryuji.
Atlus if you are gonna Mass Effect your conversation lines, voice them out too. MC should be silent sure, but 80% can work better than 90% of the time. Switching persona in battle and calling out attacks don't count imo. Don't be lazy for P6/P5 Crimson
There were points where I felt Joker should have put his foot down as leader such as that dumb spat between Ryuji and Mona but plot and shit so its understandable.
Now to write down like 20 different paragraphs for all the S links and romances for the girls.
WrenchNinja
Member
I'm surprised they didn't do birthdays with this game
Crimsonlink
Member
Yeah I have no idea whose birthday is when. Also a missed chance to score brownie points with your romance.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Joker was a cool MC until he lied to Futaba on christmas eve. Fuck Joker
Crimsonlink
Member
LOL But you chose that for MC. I have to say that the Christmas event was pretty depressing and I hate how they rushed from that point on all the way to Feb 13th. Definitely an area they can improve for an expansion.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
there were only two choices, straight up lie, or say "I'm Sorry", which he just roundabout lies to her by withholding information
"It's Nothing/I'm Sorry"
Futaba then just gets sad, refuses to let Joker walk her home. Then before she leaves:
"I wish you wouldn't keep secrets from me..."
"I've been with you long enough to know when you're not telling me things..."
And then she spends Christmas morning hunched over the Leblanc counter crying. Goddamn you joker.
The scene is mostly the same with Makoto.
Main difference is that when the rest of the group arrives Futaba is crying and she is sitting in a corner super depressed.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
right, cuz joker sucks no matter what...He should feel forever indebted they forgive him enough to help him get out, and then stay with him afterwards
Crimsonlink
Member
All the women you romance do that with you on the Christmas date. Its not supposed to be romantic or anything. I was pretty sad and hurt when Tae did it to me but then saw that all the other dates all end the same.
Yup. I even reloaded it just to see if there was a difference between options. Nope. No way in saving that. Joker putting his whole team above his romance. True leader till the end. Still would have been a nice option to tell the truth during that moment. Maybe that's another option to add to an eventual update to the game.
It's a tough situation. I totally get why he did it. It's the kind of conviction that could easily be shattered if somebody you care about tries hard enough to convince you hard enough.
If he had told the truth I don't think he'd have been able to give himself in.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Futaba and Makoto at the very least wouldve understood enough to let him go. Aint gotta lie to them.
Ann and some others I could see not being willing to accept it.
Ann and some others I could see not being willing to accept it.
I appreciated that almost all the party events were let downs in different ways, specifically the Christmas one. Subverted expectations a bit.
YoRHa No.2 Type B
Banned
I saw this unstoppable Yoshitsune fusion guide, is there a similar thing for Mara?
KoroEunectes
Member
You might be joking about this but I totally see them doing this.
Pretty much my thoughts.
Also Investigation Team vs Phantom Thieves should be interesting but considering the quality of the spin offs I am absolutely certain that they will fuck it up.
No idea what they are going to do with Igor in P6.
Are they just going to reuse the old P3/P4 voice clips from now on?
I wonder what for excuse they are going to come up with in P6 or if they will just finally get a new voice actor for Igor .
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
Mara's very stoppable. Just whack him with a cold spoon.
Professor Renegade
Banned
Just beat the game this morning. Yabbadabbadoo is tough as fucking nails and I ended up getting killed by him twice before working out a patient strategy. What a game tho, bravo Atlus, better than P4 in every way (except Haru's shoehorned character).
Is there a sure fire way of getting ultimate Personas though? I was level 73 when I beat the final boss, but I can't see how I can level up further beyond that aside from grinding the Reaper in Mementos.
Is there a sure fire way of getting ultimate Personas though? I was level 73 when I beat the final boss, but I can't see how I can level up further beyond that aside from grinding the Reaper in Mementos.
Crimsonlink
Member
Max out Strength to avoid the level caps but be ready to pay outta your ass in yen.
Still salty you can't buy yourself a better and bigger bed. That shit is way too small for you and that furball Mona.
MC seems to be the tallest protag in a while too. Tall dark and handsome, no wonder he has all the girls falling for him.
Suzushiiro
Banned
I'm sure they'll get a new voice actor. They only recycled old lines for this one because he had a small enough amount of screen time that they realistically could.
Mara is weak to ice...
Professor Renegade
Banned
Yeah I maxed out Strength, but I was too much of a cheap bastard to fuse beyond caps. I even beat the Reaper once in my first playthrough, but I think if I took the time to grind him more I would have been able to hit the 80's no problem.
Yeah, that whole scene was super lazy. Clearly written to explain information to the player and not to read like an actual conversation these two people would ever have. There surely could've been a better way to get across what the story needed to get across here.