The line was from ROTJ, not this movie.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
- Status
The line was from ROTJ, not this movie.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Here's the thing, I don't think any of that stuff is necessary for an understanding of the movie, but the destruction of the entire republic just feels like it's entirely glossed over. I get that everything in the movie was happening very fast, but they literally just ended the republic after so many movies and it just kinda moves on pretty quick. I feel like Leia should be a bit more devastated after losing both that and Han.
Just throwing around ideas in my head but maybe it would have been better to save that for the end of the movie. The crew is trying to stop Starkiller from charging and firing, and they fail to do so at the last minute before succeeding in their mission. So the republic is destroyed at the same time as the weapon and both sides suffer this massive loss right at the end. I feel like at the very end of the movie no one gives a shit about the Republic lol it's not even mentioned. Not even a word about rebuilding or what comes next.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Leia shows up in the third act and is more concerned about not getting her planet exploded.
Hux might be the only character who could care about politics but he's a supporting villain used mostly as a foil against Kylo Ren. His inclusion is mostly gives us the straight-line flavor of the First Order (which is basically "oh, fascist, got it").
Snoke and Kylo don't give a shit about politics in this film. Their motivation is clear: kill every Jedi.
I have no doubt politics will come into the film in upcoming episodes but Force Awakens has zero reasons to include them. You have good and bad guys with clear motivations and emotions, with the continued existence of the Resistance and the Jedi on the line. That's all that's needed for the film to feel epic. The same goes for the original trilogy - politics just weren't necessary and were used as decoration or increasing the scale.
The only purpose of that scene is to show us the bad guys have a really bad weapon capable of use. If they hadn't done that, the stakes wouldn't seem quite as high. The Republic is a causality just as much as the town on Jakku is at the beginning.
I do give them credit for building to a literal cliff hanger though
also, age. the actors are like 10 yeas apart.
If we assume that the timing of Ren switching to the dark side and Rey being dropped off on Jakku are connected by correlation or causation, that'd mean that Ren went dark at the age of 6-8 years.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Aside from the Republic thing, I didn't mind the mysteries and unexplained events all that much. ESB is widely considered the best episode in the saga and it started in medias res and ended with wide, wide open questions.
Not exactly true, the line is slightly different and was recorded by Mark Hamill specifically for the trailer.
They could time skip and also flash back to meaningful points in Rey's training.
breadtruck
Member
I was irked by that also.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So, time skip for ep VIII?
$4 billion has the same effect as a Jedi mind trick.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Chewie still bitter about not getting a medal after DS1.
that was weird, but we don't know how Chewie deals with that kind of sorrow, do we?
Maybe he's some "just leave me the fuck alone right now" kind of person.
Seeing as he's painted as a rather "immature" crybaby kind of character - someone who emotionally overreacts, Leia might know that she'd need to just stay out of his way for a few hours / days and let him cope by himself.
BronsonLee
Member
The Star Destroyer shit was cool, but it got in the way of everything else, usually
It's a post convert, which is totally fine, but it's just not used very well.
Nah, the lines are ripped straight out from ROTJ, and there's a new recording underneath it in barely audible volume.
someone assumed that this was maybe some sort of "tray" / "urn" / "altar" that holds Darth Vader's ashes.
Which would be weird, because why would he be keeping that in his interrogation room.
Fata1moose
Banned
Maybe they were in a binary star system.
Cool idea, but would be totally weird being that it's in the interrogation room.
Rey is most likely a Kenobi imo. her being from Luke's bloodline is a bit too on the nose. plus there were a few nudgewinks to Obi Wan in the movie.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I'm just glad not everything was dark as shit like a lot of other post conversions.
ISWThunder
Member
Chewie always gets shafted at the end of the movie.
"Ohh, the only friend you've ever had for you entire life just died before your eyes? That's unfortunate. Let me go console the girl that met him 2 hours ago."
Ultimately this comes down to whether one thinks that Star Wars should be more complex or more simple, and I fall in the former camp. I don't really subscribe to the view that everything needs to be as clean cut as possible and that SW cannot or ought not grow beyond its roots. Just because the final film shows us the most basic version of events doesn't mean that it's satisfying. And I've always felt this way since the PT came out. I'm glad the new canon is still continuing to explore the Galactic Civil War outside the simple presentation of the original movies.
It's ridiculous that the destruction of the capital of the galaxy is treated as a one off thing rather than the most important event in the film. There's no point in really talking further about it if we disagree about that, because it's a disagreement that's unresolvable.
BronsonLee
Member
As long as there's light, we still have a chance
Dat accent
Naughty_Doge
Member
That Poe killing spree, though.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Opening crawl for VIII
STAR WARS
EPISODE VIII
THE FIRST ORDER STRIKES BACK
Rey's still holding out that lightsaber.
Luke's still looking like a confused badass.
The end
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
*claps*
I'm not sure I would be massively interested if Rey turned out to be a Kenobi's daughter and timeline wise it would make any sense with their ages, I would prefer it if she was Lukes daughter. Though for all we know she could be both, maybe Obi-Wan had a daughter who Luke ran into, so she is of Kenobi and Skywalker blood.
I know it's part of the story but I don't like that we haven't had a surname for her yet, even if it turned out to be a fake one she was using or because she just doesn't know, it's too obviously part of a future reveal. At least Finn had an reason.
Would make for a pretty awesome ending, we've never really seen Vader go truly crazy on a group of people in the films, I mean full on force powers slaughtering everyone and everything in front of him crazy.
From what I've read the Republic Fleet was made smaller, but each planet would then have training facilities for their own armies, much like we saw in the Phantom Menance, Naboo had their own fighter squadrons incase they needed them. But there isn't a massive Empire level army flying around for the New Republic. I guess if there was a big war it would need the help of the senate rather than falling into the problem they had with Palpatine.
As for the X-Wings who knows, there wasn't a hint of any A-Wings or Y-Wings, it could be that they are all retrofitted fighters from the days of the Rebel Alliance, who as the New Republic are using something else. X-Wings could also be all they have on hand, they aren't supposed to be affiliated with the Republic and could be seen as a symbol of a force that has defeated the empire before.
I know it's part of the story but I don't like that we haven't had a surname for her yet, even if it turned out to be a fake one she was using or because she just doesn't know, it's too obviously part of a future reveal. At least Finn had an reason.
Would make for a pretty awesome ending, we've never really seen Vader go truly crazy on a group of people in the films, I mean full on force powers slaughtering everyone and everything in front of him crazy.
From what I've read the Republic Fleet was made smaller, but each planet would then have training facilities for their own armies, much like we saw in the Phantom Menance, Naboo had their own fighter squadrons incase they needed them. But there isn't a massive Empire level army flying around for the New Republic. I guess if there was a big war it would need the help of the senate rather than falling into the problem they had with Palpatine.
As for the X-Wings who knows, there wasn't a hint of any A-Wings or Y-Wings, it could be that they are all retrofitted fighters from the days of the Rebel Alliance, who as the New Republic are using something else. X-Wings could also be all they have on hand, they aren't supposed to be affiliated with the Republic and could be seen as a symbol of a force that has defeated the empire before.
Fata1moose
Banned
I was thinking the First Order was sort of like East Germany while the Reublic is the West. They're has to be some sort of economy rather than just being a standing Navy.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah for sure, and I think that's kinda lame lol
Granted they obviously wanted something that mirrors the destruction of alderaan but on a massive scale, and that worked, but I just feel like the republic is kind of important to just do away with in a simple show of force scene. We can infer how high the stakes are just from them comparing the damn size of the thing to the death Star and Finn should know it's capabilities.
Just a nitpick really, I wanted the republic out of the way so the next film can chart completely new territory, but I feel like it would have had more impact at the end of the movie, instead of happening when it did and not even getting a mention at the end.
Fuck yeah that was one of the best parts and my fav ship combat moment in the series. Loved Finn calling it out too haha
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Ren had just nearly turned to the light side, then killed his father and taken a blaster shot to his stomach. Not to mention he was nowhere near a fully trained Jedi when he abandoned the Jedi way.
I think Luke effortlessly force pulling the saber into his hands would've been a good ending. Instead they did some weird helicopter pan which I hated.
"you will remove these restraints and leave this cell with the door open"
ISWThunder
Member
I don't think Rey is more powerful than Kylo one-on-one, but she is a skilled fighter, he is dealing with the emotions of killing his father, he just had a fight with Fin and Kylo Ren was just shot straight in the stomach by Chewie's crossbow, which was shown throughout the movie blowing stormtroopers across the room.
And why wouldn't Fin be able to use the lightsaber? It's basically a sword and he is a highly trained soldier.
Miggytronz
Member
So dope
It's exactly on the nose. She has the same traits Luke and Anakin had. There is no way she is a Kenobi.
why would he take her light saber just to show off?
Luke's not taking away that saber, it called out for Rey, it's Rey's.
Luke's #teamGreen anyways.
Yeah, as we can see, Storm Troopers are clearly also trained to use meelee weapons, like that awesome baton thing.
Also, just like being conflicted and momentarily leaning towards the dark side makes you a better fighter (like it did with Luke in RotJ, ... he was channeling fear and anger the moment he was able to strike down Vader; or just how Obiwan channeled his anger to being able to at least cut Darth Maul's saber in half), being conflicted and drawn to the light side (i.e. feeling regret for killing one's own father) might be rather distracting and not improve fighting abilities all that much.
This is the first time we're seeing a character committed to the dark sight having to resist being drawn back to the light. This is completely new territory, so we can't make any assumptions on how these force dynamics are going to affect his capabilites.
It came out of hyperspace in the atmosphere, something we are led to believe may have never been done before.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Not to mention the movie bashes it over your head how powerful Chewie's blaster is. Kylo took that shit full on and was powering through it.
ProudCanuck
Banned
Watching this again on Monday
BronsonLee
Member
Could've fooled me, Finn suuuuuucks at everything
uncelestial
Member
Saw it opening night. Had time to collect thoughts. First, the bad stuff.
- Rey is a disappointing character, but is effective at helping the film achieve its goals. She just is a Mary Sue. She just is. I'm bored to tears by her. What's her story arc even going to be -- she goes through some training that improve her skills 4% so she can finish Kylo off in the rematch? Zzzz. She can already fight, pilot, lightsaber duel, use Jedi mind tricks, and has a love interest on lock. However, the fact that she can do all that a) makes her an exciting Strong Female Character (and all that entails), which I hope converts some girls to growing up nerdy, and b) lent itself to some great action scenes. You may buy the duel with Kylo; it's been covered enough, really, but I just didn't.
In some ways Rey's Mary Sueness is derived from the decision to keep her backstory a complete mystery. WIth no explanations given for how she Reys so well, that's going to be a side effect. But all her aspects -- from already having all the right morals figured out, to having 96% of the skills she needs, to having the total attention and approval of all the original trilogy members (and suddenly becoming the center of the story), Mary Sue it is. That's okay, of course, it's a kid-friendly fantasy romp, I'm not looking for The Sopranos here, but her suffering at least one moment of embarrassment wouldn't compromise Abram's stated goal of opening up the Star Wars "boys' club."
- I rolled my eyes at the scene where Finn and Rey meet up after their first battle on the Falcon and are talking over each other excitedly, because that shit was straight mumblecore. Their lines might as well have been "omg, I can't even!" "The feels!" "That was *so* a thing!" and other such not-quite-sentiments. This was Wes Anderson's favorite scene, I'm sure, but not mine.
- Where the fuck did Rey acquire a British accent?
- I suspect Harrison said, "I've had it with this shit. Make as many as you want, but I'm only doing one. And you're paying me $20 million plus points to do it." As soon as Han walked out on that bridge I was like, "well, they're about to kill Han Solo."
- I too was one of the people who snickered at Rylo with his helmet off. The look on his face was like the bottom two panels of this comic.
- I also laughed at the stare-off as the final scene. Luke stares at Rey. Rey stares at Luke. Cut back to Luke, staring at Rey. Cut back to Rey, staring at Luke. Then one more cut. Then, cut to a helicopter shot, doing a 360 around them staring at each other. Such staring. That *will* be the next "Star Wars without John Williams" YouTube, someday soon.
- The New Hope parallels were annoying
- Leia was pretty pointless in this; would've liked a little more time with her and Han, or some reason for her to be there other than fanservice.
- Why did R2 wake up, deus ex style?
- Snoke is a stupid name for a dumb character that looks bad
- Death Star III was really unimaginative, and stupid; it wasn't even clear what the plan was -- the fucking thing is in stationary orbit and becomes useless once you suck the life out of that star. Which they did. And hasn't the dark side learned about building planet-shaped battle stations that have chain-reaction-causing weaknesses that are accessible to X-Wings flying through trenches? Hell, they just pared down the Death Star to the trench part, really.
- The First Order being literal Nazis complete with "heil" salutes was laughable.
- Captain Phasma went out like a punk but looked cool and has a catchy name, and is therefore is the new Boba Fett.
But, despite being numerous -- these are all minor grievances, really, compared to the many cardinal sins of the Prequel Trilogy. I left entertained.
But I also felt, that -- Star Wars is just another franchise now. It may have started this nerd movie franchise culture we live in, but now it's just another brand of it, that will live alongside Marvel and DC and whatever rebooted IP Hollywood decides to shit out. When the original charcters are all retired, it's just going to be the version of that noisy forgettable summer fling movie that has the force and the pew pew and the light sabers. I feel like the end of me giving a shit altogether might actually happen at the end of this trilogy. I've grown up, those characters will soon be put to rest, and they're not really interested in going deep and complicated; it will always be a shallow experience that nerds overanalyze as if there were more there, because it was the first.
Of course, here I am doing just that, and enjoying it. Because I honestly have a good time, when a Star Wars movie is good and has those characters.
Predictions:
1) Finn takes over for General Leia. He's not cut out for combat -- that's Rey's wheelhouse. But he has insider knowledge of the First Order, and could definitely be behind the scenes making shit happen.
2) Rey is Luke's daughter, duh. She learns the ways of the force. She has to suffer some loss. It will parallel a hard time that all the Skywalkers go through in chapter 2. Hand-cutting-off seems to be popular. Then in Chapter 3 (episode 9), her "training is complete" and she wins and yay and yub nub.
3) Rey and Finn are gonna like totally do it and hopefully not have more Michael Cera-esque adorkable scenes. But not until about the second half of VIII. Some stuff happens, then during the quiet middle part they hook up, then the Big Bad Thing That Happens to Rey will have all this meaning and shit.
4) C3PO, Luke, and Leia die by the end of this trilogy. They must. Disney wants to move on and not be dependent on these actors. There are options for actors for R2 and Chewie, maybe they live. But those three are toast.
- Rey is a disappointing character, but is effective at helping the film achieve its goals. She just is a Mary Sue. She just is. I'm bored to tears by her. What's her story arc even going to be -- she goes through some training that improve her skills 4% so she can finish Kylo off in the rematch? Zzzz. She can already fight, pilot, lightsaber duel, use Jedi mind tricks, and has a love interest on lock. However, the fact that she can do all that a) makes her an exciting Strong Female Character (and all that entails), which I hope converts some girls to growing up nerdy, and b) lent itself to some great action scenes. You may buy the duel with Kylo; it's been covered enough, really, but I just didn't.
In some ways Rey's Mary Sueness is derived from the decision to keep her backstory a complete mystery. WIth no explanations given for how she Reys so well, that's going to be a side effect. But all her aspects -- from already having all the right morals figured out, to having 96% of the skills she needs, to having the total attention and approval of all the original trilogy members (and suddenly becoming the center of the story), Mary Sue it is. That's okay, of course, it's a kid-friendly fantasy romp, I'm not looking for The Sopranos here, but her suffering at least one moment of embarrassment wouldn't compromise Abram's stated goal of opening up the Star Wars "boys' club."
- I rolled my eyes at the scene where Finn and Rey meet up after their first battle on the Falcon and are talking over each other excitedly, because that shit was straight mumblecore. Their lines might as well have been "omg, I can't even!" "The feels!" "That was *so* a thing!" and other such not-quite-sentiments. This was Wes Anderson's favorite scene, I'm sure, but not mine.
- Where the fuck did Rey acquire a British accent?
- I suspect Harrison said, "I've had it with this shit. Make as many as you want, but I'm only doing one. And you're paying me $20 million plus points to do it." As soon as Han walked out on that bridge I was like, "well, they're about to kill Han Solo."
- I too was one of the people who snickered at Rylo with his helmet off. The look on his face was like the bottom two panels of this comic.
- I also laughed at the stare-off as the final scene. Luke stares at Rey. Rey stares at Luke. Cut back to Luke, staring at Rey. Cut back to Rey, staring at Luke. Then one more cut. Then, cut to a helicopter shot, doing a 360 around them staring at each other. Such staring. That *will* be the next "Star Wars without John Williams" YouTube, someday soon.
- The New Hope parallels were annoying
- Leia was pretty pointless in this; would've liked a little more time with her and Han, or some reason for her to be there other than fanservice.
- Why did R2 wake up, deus ex style?
- Snoke is a stupid name for a dumb character that looks bad
- Death Star III was really unimaginative, and stupid; it wasn't even clear what the plan was -- the fucking thing is in stationary orbit and becomes useless once you suck the life out of that star. Which they did. And hasn't the dark side learned about building planet-shaped battle stations that have chain-reaction-causing weaknesses that are accessible to X-Wings flying through trenches? Hell, they just pared down the Death Star to the trench part, really.
- The First Order being literal Nazis complete with "heil" salutes was laughable.
- Captain Phasma went out like a punk but looked cool and has a catchy name, and is therefore is the new Boba Fett.
But, despite being numerous -- these are all minor grievances, really, compared to the many cardinal sins of the Prequel Trilogy. I left entertained.
But I also felt, that -- Star Wars is just another franchise now. It may have started this nerd movie franchise culture we live in, but now it's just another brand of it, that will live alongside Marvel and DC and whatever rebooted IP Hollywood decides to shit out. When the original charcters are all retired, it's just going to be the version of that noisy forgettable summer fling movie that has the force and the pew pew and the light sabers. I feel like the end of me giving a shit altogether might actually happen at the end of this trilogy. I've grown up, those characters will soon be put to rest, and they're not really interested in going deep and complicated; it will always be a shallow experience that nerds overanalyze as if there were more there, because it was the first.
Of course, here I am doing just that, and enjoying it. Because I honestly have a good time, when a Star Wars movie is good and has those characters.
Predictions:
1) Finn takes over for General Leia. He's not cut out for combat -- that's Rey's wheelhouse. But he has insider knowledge of the First Order, and could definitely be behind the scenes making shit happen.
2) Rey is Luke's daughter, duh. She learns the ways of the force. She has to suffer some loss. It will parallel a hard time that all the Skywalkers go through in chapter 2. Hand-cutting-off seems to be popular. Then in Chapter 3 (episode 9), her "training is complete" and she wins and yay and yub nub.
3) Rey and Finn are gonna like totally do it and hopefully not have more Michael Cera-esque adorkable scenes. But not until about the second half of VIII. Some stuff happens, then during the quiet middle part they hook up, then the Big Bad Thing That Happens to Rey will have all this meaning and shit.
4) C3PO, Luke, and Leia die by the end of this trilogy. They must. Disney wants to move on and not be dependent on these actors. There are options for actors for R2 and Chewie, maybe they live. But those three are toast.
I disagree. It looked great in 3D. Some really cool pop out moments and a lot of depth of field during the battle scenes.
Thanks! I always thought the lightsaber could only be used by someone who could manipulate the force. I never looked into it.
I loved that duel
. I think I'm going to see it again without 3D.Cloud Strife
Member
Was he though? Seems as though there was no one to challenge him in a lightsaber duel, so he probably never had any real fighting experience with one.
Seems to me that he was just adept at using the force.
Seems surprising that, in an age with blasters, Stormtroopers would train with swords.
Not like he's gonna keep it.
ISWThunder
Member
Thanks! I always thought the lightsaber could only be used by someone who could manipulate the force. I never looked into it.
I loved that duel
I think that idea has been batted around in the EU. Not sure it exists in any current cannon.
- Status