Support NeoGAF

[InsaneZero]

Well that was pretty worthless. Like everything else about him.

 

[Jex]

I don't know if many consistent sakuga shows exist outside of KyoAni and a couple other shows like Dennou Coil. It's by definition a rare quality.

You can achieve it if you just have you staff work 18 hours a day including weekends.

 

[Jarmel]

You can achieve it if you just have you staff work 18 hours a day including weekends.

So just like videogame developers?

I wonder who gets a worse gig.

 

[Milamber]

Well that was pretty worthless. Like everything else about him.

Fate/Stay Night assassin was much more worthless than Fate/Zero assassin. F/Z assassin is the new F/SN lancer.

 

[Branduil]

You can achieve it if you just have you staff work 18 hours a day including weekends.

KyoAni achieves it while having the best working environment in the industry, though.

 

[frostbyte]

What am I reading? He was amazing in UBW.

That's only one route out of three. Shirou has his moments but in general, terrible.

Fate/Stay Night assassin was much more worthless than Fate/Zero assassin.

You got it the other way around.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

So just like videogame developers?

I wonder who gets a worse gig.

Developers get paid more than animators.

 

[Jex]

KyoAni achieves it while having the best-treated staff in the industry, though.

I never bothered watching the video's about their studio, so I assume they either have a better production schedule so that the deadlines aren't quite so appalling as in other shows (Fujiko Mine...) and/or they have more talented animators than at other studios.

 

[darkside31337]

I think you mean that Shinji is a Nadia clone.

Yes that is what I meant. I get confused merely thinking about Eva. Sorry

 

[cajunator]

You can achieve it if you just have you staff work 18 hours a day including weekends.

Sounds like my place of work.

 

[jman2050]

That's only one route out of three. Shirou has his moments but in general, terrible.

Shirou never stops being a terrible character but at least he has his shining moments of badassery in UBW and HF, as opposed to Fate where his most badass moment was

Spoiler

awkwardly stabbing some dude in the chest

 

[Branduil]

I never bothered watching the video's about their studio, so I assume they either have a better production schedule so that the deadlines aren't quite so appalling as in other shows (Fujiko Mine...) and/or they have more talented animators than at other studios.

I think they attract more talented animators because they have a better production schedule.

 

[Basileus777]

Fate/Stay Night assassin was much more worthless than Fate/Zero assassin. F/Z assassin is the new F/SN lancer.

I can't accept this insanity.


All else aside, FSN Assassin will always have Carnival Phantasm episode 9.

 

[zeroshiki]

If you are a talented programmer, there are lotsa places to go outside the games industry. If you are a talented animator, there is nowhere else to go except I dono, Korea. This is why developers get paid better.

 

[InsaneZero]

Shirou never stops being a terrible character but at least he has his shining moments of badassery in UBW and HF, as opposed to Fate where his most badass moment was

Spoiler

awkwardly stabbing some dude in the chest

I have never understood how the fuck Shirou managed to pull that off against

Spoiler

Kotomine Kirei

of all people. Especially considering what he could do in any other storyline.

 

[Jex]

I think they attract more talented animators because they have a better production schedule.

I think they have better animators because, well, they actually pay them and train them.

 

[zeroshiki]

KyoAni can't animate cars though. Watching a black cab in CG broke my heart

 

[Regulus Tera]

I think they have better animators because, well, they actually pay them and train them.

Are we talking real money or ramen?

 

[Basileus777]

I have never understood how the fuck Shirou managed to pull that off against

Spoiler

Kotomine Kirei

of all people. Especially considering what he could do in any other storyline.

It's the same as any other fight, plot convenience.

Spoiler

How does Saber get beat up by a school teacher? How does a crippled Shiro take down Saber Alter?

 

[Ultimadrago]

Are we talking real money or ramen?

Real money is ramen.

(For me anyways)

 

[Jarmel]

That's only one route out of three. Shirou has his moments but in general, terrible.

I actually don't think he's bad. Part of the overarching story is both proving why he's wrong and also right at the same time.

Spoiler

The whole deal with Archer adds a whole layer to his actions throughout all the arcs really and his mentality being that of 'Survivor's Guilt' is actually pretty interesting.

He also gets to go toe to toe with a Servant which pretty much no other human can do. If Ufotable ever do an adaptation of HF they better through in that part of the UBW storyline.

Developers get paid more than animators.

I would love to see some stats comparing overall wages for both calculated for living differentials and overtime hours.

 

[Branduil]

I think they have better animators because, well, they actually pay them and train them.

That also helps. All things considered, KyoAni simply seems to be the ideal studio if you are an animator in Japan. You get paid and treated well for doing what you love, and your work will reach about as wide an audience as you can get doing anime.

 

[frostbyte]

Shirou never stops being a terrible character but at least he has his shining moments of badassery in UBW and HF, as opposed to Fate where his most badass moment was

Spoiler

awkwardly stabbing some dude in the chest

Indeed. Personally, his most epic moment was in UBW route, heavy FSN spoilers:

Spoiler

where he faces down Archer, his own future self, even as he knows what his misplaced beliefs will lead to. Fate route Shirou is as lame as F/Z Assassin, really.

 

[zeroshiki]

Are we talking real money or ramen?

They're famous for giving their animators a living wage as opposed to Shaft who's famous for chaining their animators to their desks to finish production.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

KyoAni can't animate cars though. Watching a black cab in CG broke my heart

But no one does mechanical animation anymore.

 

[InfiniteNine]

F/Z assassin is the new F/SN lancer.

The fuck?

 

[zeroshiki]

That also helps. All things considered, KyoAni simply seems to be the ideal studio if you are an animator in Japan. You get paid and treated well for doing what you love, and your work will reach about as wide an audience as you can get doing anime.

Ghibli Studio.

 

[Jex]

Are we talking real money or ramen?

Everyone gets paid actual money. Even roles that normally don't get paid well at all, such as in-betweening.

Of course, I imagine that means your studio really has to put out a big hit to be successful.

 

[Branduil]

Ghibli Studio.

Well obviously Ghibli gets the widest exposure of all. I don't know if their work conditions are as good, but I'd guess not.

 

[zeroshiki]

Jex is saying that this means we should all buy Nichijou, guys.

Well obviously Ghibli gets the widest exposure of all. I don't know if their work conditions are as good, but I'd guess not.

According to the excerpts Jex posts from Miyazaki's book, he is at least aware of the problem among animators and would like to do something about it. I'm not sure if he ever did but hey maybe. Also, one of Oshii's complaints about Ghibli was that they only worked until 10 or something because Miyazaki and Takahata were old and couldn't do all nighters. That's a good, sane schedule.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Jex is saying that this means we should all buy Nichijou, guys.

I don't have to listen to him!

 

[Jex]

I'm just saying, their works probably need to make some money to cover the cost of treating animators like real human beings.

 

[InsaneZero]

Jex is saying that this means we should all buy Nichijou, guys.

I'm saving my money to buy Hyouka BDs from bargain bins.

 

[Femmeworth]

KyoAni can't animate cars though. Watching a black cab in CG broke my heart

Pfft, did you see those moeblobs? They are all that matter.

I think they have better animators because, well, they actually pay them and train them.

That sounds like a poor business plan.

 

[Branduil]

I'm just saying, their works probably need to make some money to cover the cost of treating animators like real human beings.

If only they had several blockbuster franchises with record sales in the last few years.

 

[frostbyte]

I have never understood how the fuck Shirou managed to pull that off against

Spoiler

Kotomine Kirei

of all people. Especially considering what he could do in any other storyline.

Because Nasu.

It's the same as any other fight, plot convenience.

Spoiler

How does Saber get beat up by a school teacher? How does a crippled Shiro take down Saber Alter?

That too.

I actually don't think he's bad. Part of the overarching story is both proving why he's wrong and also right at the same time.

Spoiler

The whole deal with Archer adds a whole layer to his actions throughout all the arcs really and his mentality being that of 'Survivor's Guilt' is actually pretty interesting.

He also gets to go toe to toe with a Servant which pretty much no other human can do. If Ufotable ever do an adaptation of HF they better through in that part of the UBW storyline.

Yes, (heavy F/SN spoilers):

Spoiler

facing down and persuading Archer, his bitter future self, otherwise was pretty good. Still, Shirou's crowning moments of awesome are far and infrequent. Maybe another would be the final fight between Kirei and Shirou.

Animating HF is a clusterfuck and I'd be surprised if Ufotable ever does it. I want it but some discussion with InsaneZero and others persuade me otherwise.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Jex is saying that this means we should all buy Nichijou, guys.

Sheeeet, I would, save the import price for them all together!

Looking at you, Australia!

 

[Branduil]

Nobody will ever hand-draw cars again unless it's a show specifically about cars that are hand-drawn. Maybe not even then.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Jex is saying that this means we should all buy Nichijou, guys.

I'm giving Crunchyroll moneys so that I don't have to buy anime, dammit.

 

[Jex]

If only they had several blockbuster franchises with record sales in the last few years.

I assume it puts extra pressure on them to make sure every show is a big hit, which might mean that they can't afford to take many creative risks.

 

[jman2050]

I have never understood how the fuck Shirou managed to pull that off against

Spoiler

Kotomine Kirei

of all people. Especially considering what he could do in any other storyline.

Spoiler

The ever so convenient combination of BS plot weaponry combined with protection from explicitly BS plot armor. Naturally, Shirou is the beneficiary of all these advantages while having to do precisely dick-all to contribute to his own victory.

Honestly, it's amazing how much less sense Fate makes the farther you get into the game. (more major FSN spoilers)

Spoiler

I don't care how injured Archer supposedly was, there is no way he should have lost to Berserker.

Wait, why am I even doing these arguments in the first place? Damn you Type-Moon!

 

[Regulus Tera]

I assume it puts extra pressure on them to make sure every show is a big hit, which might mean that they can't afford to take many creative risks.

A bit like the video game industry with an even smaller margin of error.

 

[neoanarch]

Paaying for subs is buying anime. I don't want to hunt around is there a price plan comparison for all the different stream services around.

crunchyroll
funimation
anime network online
niconico

 

[Jex]

Or when the lead time gets burnt up, which is another common cause (I'm looking at you Eureka Seven!). I would say in terms of long running shows with the most consistent animation AND having a consistent level of regular sakuga sequences, FMA and FMA:B probably win hands down.

This is clearly why TV anime can't be called real anime.

 

[Soma]

Jex is saying that this means we should all buy Nichijou, guys.

man if i had a disposable income i would buy Nichijou so hard.


so hard.

 

[Branduil]

I assume it puts extra pressure on them to make sure every show is a big hit, which might mean that they can't afford to take many creative risks.

Well, I imagine like most studios they get financing from sponsors so that not all of the risk is placed upon them.

 

[frostbyte]

Spoiler

The ever so convenient combination of BS plot weaponry combined with protection from explicitly BS plot armor. Naturally, Shirou is the beneficiary of all these advantages while having to do precisely dick-all to contribute to his own victory.

Honestly, it's amazing how much less sense Fate makes the farther you get into the game. (more major FSN spoilers)

Spoiler

I don't care how injured Archer supposedly was, there is no way he should have lost to Berserker.

Wait, why am I even doing these arguments in the first place? Damn you Type-Moon!

Times like this make me question why I like this series so much.

Spoiler

I think it's because of Rin

Sheeeet, I would, save the import price for them all together!

Looking at you, Australia!

If Madman Australia picks it up, I'd buy it.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Rin rules!

 

[zeroshiki]

KyoAni has some of the most successful franchises of past few years. In the last 5 years or so, KyoAni has created massive hits such as Haruhi and K-on and some minor hits like the Key stuff and Lucky Star. They can go back to those wells if they ever feel the need to.

 

[Basileus777]

Honestly, it's amazing how much less sense Fate makes the farther you get into the game. (more major FSN spoilers)

Spoiler

I don't care how injured Archer supposedly was, there is no way he should have lost to Berserker.

If anything

Spoiler

it was a stretch for Archer to kill him that many times. Heracles pretty much crushes any servant other than Saber or Gilgamesh thanks to God Hand.

Edit: Oh god, not a power level argument.