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[Escalario]

Can't wait for Bravely Third on NX.

There's not a big market for turn-based games nowadays anyway, probably didn't help that no one knows about this game... good job squeenix

Maybe on PS4 and PC there's no big market for turn-based JRPGs, but SE found huge success with Bravely Default on 3DS, especially in the west. Project X Zone also surpassed Bamco's expectations by a lot, and it's mainly thanks to the sales in the west that PXZ2 is a thing. There's also Fire Emblem which went from a very niche series to one of Nintendo's biggest IPs worldwide. Wouldn't weird me if Setsuna sold much better if it had a 3DS version.

 

[Kresnik258]

Wouldn't weird me if Setsuna sold much better if it had a 3DS version.

They didn't even do a Vita version despite the fact that all it would've taken is putting the already-done translation into the already-made game. For whatever reason they just really, really didn't want this game on handhelds lol.

 

[Dark_castle]

Make a JRPG where the setting isn't completely blanketed with white texture, and I'd buy.

 

[ZeroX03]

If Setsuna was sold as a $40 3DS game it would've been a really bad look. Compared to Bravely it's amateur hour.

 

[DMiz]

i would assume this is related to creative accounting wherein SE creates it as a separate business unit, puts all the costs in that unit, and then puts all the revenue elsewhere

... But why would they do that? Not saying that it isn't likely what happened, I'm just unsure of what good it would do from a PR perspective to show that this project is failing. Is to assert, in the future, that the audience doesn't want 'old-school' RPGs and to push hard on the marketing for XV?

 

[The Praiseworthy]

This isn't that alarming, is it?

- This probably includes the start up costs, development costs and marketing costs;
- data is for the first week of Japanese sales, which means it includes all expenses but only some revenue;
- Japanese sales have risen since the first week, and Western sales should be added to it, so it likely already (nearly) broke even or made profit.

Seems to me like a good start for a first game, new IP no less, of a new studio.

Yep.. that's it probably.

Regarding the LTD sales here are the last numbers for Japan


Retail until end of June
[PS4] Project Setsuna <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.02.18} (¥4.800) - 48.675
[PSV] Project Setsuna <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.02.18} (¥4.800) - 40.113

Digital estimates for February
[PS4] Project Setsuna <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.02.18} - 10.527
[PSV] Project Setsuna <RPG> (Square Enix) {2016.02.18} - 5.949

So current LTD numbers are probably around 110-120k

Hope the worldwide release now give it a push to 200k+ \ 250k+.

I want to see this team next game... they made Setsuna with a lot of love.

 

[Scrawnton]

If Setsuna was sold as a $40 3DS game it would've been a really bad look. Compared to Bravely it's amateur hour.

And this is the exact reason why I wouldnt pay $40 for it. It's just half baked compared to what I could get on my 3ds for the same price. Like, DQ7 releases in a month and a half and it's THE SAME PRICE?! I really don't know what square was thinking.

 

[Korigama]

Never seemed particularly interesting to me, so I'm not really surprised by it underperforming.

 

[Aalvi]

I would have bought the game if it were cheaper

 

[Taruranto]

There's not a big market for turn-based games nowadays anyway, probably didn't help that no one knows about this game... good job squeenix

Yeah, it would have sold like hotcakes if was action-based... wat.

It's an overpriced low budget RPG which only appeal to people was that it payed like one of the best RPG of all times!

 

[Setsuna]

Its bizarre seeing the insults in this thread towards the game

 

[Stone Ocean]

What a bummer. I did my part, bought it day one. Haven't had a chance to really dig in yet but soo-

Oh well, never mind I guess.

How is this dipshit not banned yet?

I feel less lonely now. It's not a spoiler, guys.

 

[Contica]

Its bizarre seeing the insults in this thread towards the game

Yeah, from people who haven't played it, no less, and have no clue what an amazing game they're missing out on.

As for the Bravely Default comments. Loved the game, amazing gameplay, but made me feel nothing.

I am Setsuna made me feel something. It had a nerve and a melancholy to it that is very rare these days.

 

[Tizoc]

Can't wait for Bravely Third on NX.



Maybe on PS4 and PC there's no big market for turn-based JRPGs, but SE found huge success with Bravely Default on 3DS, especially in the west. Project X Zone also surpassed Bamco's expectations by a lot, and it's mainly thanks to the sales in the west that PXZ2 is a thing. There's also Fire Emblem which went from a very niche series to one of Nintendo's biggest IPs worldwide. Wouldn't weird me if Setsuna sold much better if it had a 3DS version.

What about other turn based rpgs on the 3ds?
The main issue with setsuna is its base price point as it was deemed too high for the average consumer.
Edit- and saying therse is no demand for them is bs
Ffx hd and ff9 both did well on steam having 100k+ owners by now

 

[GorillaJu]

I think I Am Setsuna was a really shallow proof of concept but it did show that they have the right idea in mind. It needed more time or more people on it, or maybe just better leadership, but I hope their lesson here isn't to completely deinvest in it.

 

[adixon]

Really don't get the complaints about the game's graphics! There are scenes in the game that closely match the posted concept art right down to having the same trees and colors and feeling, except the game is top down. Obviously if you pick a scene from the game in a village (with the main feature being a burning pile of wood, lol) and compare it to concept art in a forest, they're not going to have much in common.

The character models are definitely handheld quality, but the scene art is great. Some of the best 3d textured to look soft and hand painted that I've seen.

Hopefully there's a good sale and more people get to try it, I agree that 40 is a lot compared to what the steam market is used to.

 

[Escalario]

What about other turn based rpgs on the 3ds?
The main issue with setsuna is its base price point as it was deemed too high for the average consumer.
Edit- and saying therse is no demand for them is bs
Ffx hd and ff9 both did well on steam having 100k+ owners by now

Dragon Quest remakes are million sellers in Japan. Atlus also seems to be ok with putting almost everything they do exclusively on 3DS, the only outliers being TMS#FE and Persona 5.

 

[kevm3]

The game needed a lot more baking. I didn't really get any sense of urgency that the world was in grave danger when I spent so much time fighting palette swapped snails, penguins and walruses.

 

[Shin-chan]

Dragon Quest remakes are million sellers in Japan. Atlus also seems to be ok with putting almost everything they do exclusively on 3DS, the only outliers being TMS#FE and Persona 5.

I am shocked that Dragon Quest sold better in Japan than an overpriced low budget new IP made with Unity.

 

[Escalario]

I am shocked that Dragon Quest sold better in Japan than an overpriced low budget new IP made with Unity.

Dragon Quest games also sell better on 3DS than the ones on PS3+PS4+Vita together. It's obvious where the JRPG audience is this gen, and it's not on home consoles or PC.

 

[Scrawnton]

Dragon Quest games also sell better on 3DS than the ones on PS3+PS4+Vita together. It's obvious where the JRPG audience is this gen, and it's not on home consoles or PC.

And not in America...

....

Spoiler

according to Square Enix's terrible market "research"

 

[GoodMorningPluto]

They didn't even do a Vita version despite the fact that all it would've taken is putting the already-done translation into the already-made game. For whatever reason they just really, really didn't want this game on handhelds lol.

It's not that they don't want, it's just that they somehow have trouble running the game on them. Vita port was already running sub-optimal, judging by Japanese comments, so I can't even imagine what a slideshow it would be on 3DS.

 

[killatopak]

The game looked good and all but no way it lost that much in developing that. It wasn't even a AAA game.

I think they added the cost of the studio creation.

 

[Shin-chan]

Dragon Quest games also sell better on 3DS than the ones on PS3+PS4+Vita together. It's obvious where the JRPG audience is this gen, and it's not on home consoles or PC.

Sure, I'm not arguing against that but comparing sales of much bigger budget established IP against Setsuna is ridiculous. The Bravely comparison might have worked but that game is such a bigger budget title than Setsuna I'm not sure it does (how did both Bravely games sell in Japan by the way? I'm assuming around 250-300K first week but maybe that's wrong).

And then the big point: does the 3DS support Unity? Because if not then the point is moot. It was never going to be made for it.

For a new IP that is extremely low budget I'm not even sure Setsunas sales are bad at this point. They're probably pretty decent given the price point compared to similarly budgeted games.

 

[ZeroX03]

The game looked good and all but no way it lost that much in developing that. It wasn't even a AAA game.

I think they added the cost of the studio creation.

There's no way it could lose 2.4 million? How much do you think game development costs?

AAA games are 5-25x this.

 

[Escalario]

Sure, I'm not arguing against that but comparing sales of much bigger budget established IP against Setsuna is ridiculous. The Bravely comparison might have worked but that game is such a bigger budget title than Setsuna I'm not sure it does (how did both Bravely games sell in Japan by the way? I'm assuming around 250-300K first week but maybe that's wrong).

And then the big point: does the 3DS support Unity? Because if not then the point is moot. It was never going to be made for it.

For a new IP that is extremely low budget I'm not even sure Setsunas sales are bad at this point. They're probably pretty decent given the price point compared to similarly budgeted games.

Yes it does. N3DS only, but at this point there are more N3DS owners than Vita's.

 

[Give War A Chance]

Surely this includes all costs up to, and including, the production of I Am Setsuna, right?

 

[MacTag]

I am shocked that Dragon Quest sold better in Japan than an overpriced low budget new IP made with Unity.

It's going to sell better in the west too probably.

 

[Fdkn]

Yes it does. N3DS only, but at this point there are more N3DS owners than Vita's.

I wouldn't bet on that.

 

[Shin-chan]

Yes it does. N3DS only, but at this point there are more N3DS owners than Vita's.

Are you serious? And you expect Square Enix (with patchy at best handheld support anyway) to make a New 3DS exclusive? Didn't Xenoblade bomb as well? There's a reason N3DS has been shit in terms of software support taking full advantage of its capabilities.

 

[Escalario]

Are you serious? And you expect Square Enix (with patchy at best handheld support anyway) to make a New 3DS exclusive? Didn't Xenoblade bomb as well? There's a reason N3DS has been shit in terms of software support taking full advantage of its capabilities.

No? Where did I said to make IAS a n3DS exclusive? And of course 3rd parties aren't gonna make n3DS exclusive games, just like there's not gonna be much Neo and Scorpio exclusives, especially from 3rd parties. They ain't gonna leave sales potential out of those 50 or so millions of people.

 

[Fisico]

Dragon Quest games also sell better on 3DS than the ones on PS3+PS4+Vita together. It's obvious where the JRPG audience is this gen, and it's not on home consoles or PC.

Overall yes, however since you're talking about a specific example, Dragon Quest Builders (which is the only DQ game on PS3+PS4+PSV) sold on par or even slightly better than Dragon Quest Monster Joker 3 (in the 600-800k ballpark).

Your point still stands and DQMJ3 was released without fanfare while DQM:B had a bigger marketing push, only sharing data.

Yes it does. N3DS only, but at this point there are more N3DS owners than Vita's.

Source ?

Sure, I'm not arguing against that but comparing sales of much bigger budget established IP against Setsuna is ridiculous. The Bravely comparison might have worked but that game is such a bigger budget title than Setsuna I'm not sure it does (how did both Bravely games sell in Japan by the way? I'm assuming around 250-300K first week but maybe that's wrong).

Including For The Sequel rerelease first episode was 144k FW and 350k LTD

3DS Bravely Default: Flying Fairy 144,909 357,640

Bravely Second well... 100k FW 150k LTD with lots of copies still in the bomba bin, game was sent to die.

3DS Bravely Second: End Layer 97,220 148,938

 

[Cornbread78]

well, I'm sure they will make that money back with the games western release at $40.

 

[Shin-chan]

No? Where did I said to make IAS a n3DS exclusive? And of course 3rd parties aren't gonna make n3DS exclusive games, just like there's not gonna be much Neo and Scorpio exclusives, especially from 3rd parties. They ain't gonna leave sales potential out of those 50 or so millions of people.

I meant N3DS exclusive for the imaginary 3DS SKU. Which would have sold bugger all, both in Japan and worldwide, and you'd have even less of a point.

 

[ArjanN]

...the result is not terribly surprising.

No one seems to learn from Epic Mickey's mistakes. Don't lead your marketing with concept art unless you intend to match it.

I don't think you know how concept art works.

Also, I don't think the GIF really supports your point very well.

 

[Demoskinos]

We need Lightning back.

The only sensible answer here.

 

[ZeroX03]

The Bravely comparison might have worked but that game is such a bigger budget title than Setsuna I'm not sure it does

Bravely is a budget series too.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Yes it does. N3DS only, but at this point there are more N3DS owners than Vita's.

Setsuna had performance issues on the Vita (specifically long load times, not sure if the frame rate suffers as well). There's no way on earth they were going to get it working on the much weaker n3DS hardware.

 

[GhostTrick]

Setsuna had performance issues on the Vita (specifically long load times, not sure if the frame rate suffers as well). There's no way on earth they were going to get it working on the much weaker n3DS hardware.

Depends on where the bottleneck is. If it's CPU related, then I guess maybe it could've performed on par ?
Vita's CPU is newer but terribly low clocked. Considering how Unity is poorly multithreaded, I guess a 802mhz ARM11 CPU could stand a chance against a 333mhz ARM Cortex A9 one.

 

[kurahador]

Bravely is a budget series too.

Really? Bravely is voiced and filled with CG cutscenes. Those scream AA budget at least to me.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Depends on where the bottleneck is. If it's CPU related, then I guess maybe it could've performed on par ?
Vita's CPU is newer but terribly low clocked. Considering how Unity is poorly multithreaded, I guess a 802mhz ARM11 CPU could stand a chance against a 333mhz ARM Cortex A9 one.

Besides CPU & GPU, there's also the RAM issue - Unity tends to be rather RAM hungry and it's a bear to get programs to fit in well (Vita has 521MBs of RAM and 128MB VRAM). In comparison, n3DS only has 256MBs of RAM and 10MB VRAM. If Setsuna was close to the limit on the Vita, they'd be way over on n3DS.

 

[kromeo]

Really? Bravely is voiced and filled with CG cutscenes. Those scream AA budget at least to me.

The copy paste dungeons definitely feel budget

 

[MacTag]

Depends on where the bottleneck is. If it's CPU related, then I guess maybe it could've performed on par ?
Vita's CPU is newer but terribly low clocked. Considering how Unity is poorly multithreaded, I guess a 802mhz ARM11 CPU could stand a chance against a 333mhz ARM Cortex A9 one.

Someone did the calculations in another thread and n3DS does outperform Vita's CPU at standard clock (333 MHz). When Vita's in overclock mode (444 MHz) it comes out ahead though.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Can't wait for Bravely Third on NX.



Maybe on PS4 and PC there's no big market for turn-based JRPGs, but SE found huge success with Bravely Default on 3DS, especially in the west. Project X Zone also surpassed Bamco's expectations by a lot, and it's mainly thanks to the sales in the west that PXZ2 is a thing. There's also Fire Emblem which went from a very niche series to one of Nintendo's biggest IPs worldwide. Wouldn't weird me if Setsuna sold much better if it had a 3DS version.

And then BD2 flopped. Persona 5 will likely outsell all of those games and its turn based.

Dragon Quest remakes are million sellers in Japan. Atlus also seems to be ok with putting almost everything they do exclusively on 3DS, the only outliers being TMS#FE and Persona 5.

Apart from their biggest franchise and mopst expensive one, which will most likely go on to be their best selling game.

Dragon Quest games also sell better on 3DS than the ones on PS3+PS4+Vita together. It's obvious where the JRPG audience is this gen, and it's not on home consoles or PC.

What kind of comparison is this? The games are not even of the same nature. Don't see why you are looking at DQ either as its very Japanese centric. FFXV, KH3, FF7R are the big WW JRPGS and would you look at that....they are all on PS4.

 

[Escalario]

And then BD2 flopped. Persona 5 will likely outsell all of those games and its turn based.



Apart from their biggest franchise and mopst expensive one, which will most likely go on to be their best selling game.



What kind of comparison is this? The games are not even of the same nature. Don't see why you are looking at DQ either as its very Japanese centric. FFXV, KH3, FF7R are the big WW JRPGS and would you look at that....they are all on PS4.

LOL. I knew you would show up sooner or later and defend your beloved Sony.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

What? no! why? ugh!

Hopefully that doesn't hurt them too much. How many employees does Tokyo RPG Factory have?

 

[ZeroX03]

Really? Bravely is voiced and filled with CG cutscenes. Those scream AA budget at least to me.

Just going to copy and paste my post from the Setsuna OT.

Also filled with CG cutscenes? I think Second only has two for the entire game. They just repeat the intro one over and over.

Bravely's visuals are very low res (actually SNES res!), with a mix of great art direction. Doing art by hand is easier when it doesn't need to be huge.

And well, just look at the padding in the first game and the reused assets in the second. It's probably higher budget than Setsuna, but it's no big budget by any title. Little tricks like small locations, minimal NPCs, palette swaps. Quite a bit of discussion happened about how Second felt restricted by budget despite Default's success.

That you would think it isn't low budget is a testament to the developer's talent at hiding it. Also that sound quality.

And then BD2 flopped.

SE didn't handle it too well, unfortunately.

It also seems the budget was cut even further with Bravely Second, rather than trying to develop and grow the brand. They tried to milk it way too soon.

 

[GhostTrick]

And then BD2 flopped. Persona 5 will likely outsell all of those games and its turn based.



Apart from their biggest franchise and mopst expensive one, which will most likely go on to be their best selling game.



What kind of comparison is this? The games are not even of the same nature. Don't see why you are looking at DQ either as its very Japanese centric. FFXV, KH3, FF7R are the big WW JRPGS and would you look at that....they are all on PS4.

BD2 flopped because it was released with no marketing, and wasn't expanding on the previous one, more like recycled.

Persona 5 will sure outsell it. It has a freakin bigger budget. Especially marketing wise. The best thing BD got marketing wise was appearances in Nintendo Directs.

 

[Instro]

Seems like nothing.

 

[MacTag]

And then BD2 flopped. Persona 5 will likely outsell all of those games and its turn based.

Bravely Second got even less promotion, and likely less budget, than Setsuna did. It still did okay in Japan and the US though, although sales roughly halved versus the first game. Not a flop at all really.

P5 will do really well though, over a million for sure. It'll be the best selling non-DQ, FF, KH, Pokemon, YW, Mario or FE JRPG this gen.