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Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 | The 'Verse Awakens

staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Zalusithix said:
On the expensive side, but not limited. Given its small size relative to the Idris and Javelin these days, I doubt they need to keep it limited for power reasons. The real question is how many people it'll need to properly function. I don't see it being all too useful to solo players as a personal ship even with AI.
Click to expand...

Some other questions are if it will be persistent/need a crew 24/7 to function.

Danthrax said:
Operation Chopstick
Click to expand...

I like it!
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
staticneuron said:
Some other questions are if it will be persistent/need a crew 24/7 to function.
Click to expand...

Nah, full persistence isn't going to happen. Anything sold isn't full persistence. That's reserved for the large cap ships. Ones larger than the Javelin destroyer. The Polaris is going to be corvette around the size of the initial Idris concept before it ballooned into frigate. That "small" of a ship should be easier to field than an Idris (let alone a Javelin), but still ideally need at least a handful of real humans.

I'm really interested in seeing what they do with it, but unless they have some really interesting non-combat variant, I won't be getting one. Already have the Idris for the "far too big for myself" class warship. Meanwhile anything larger than something like the Carrack is to big for a personal ship (and even that's likely pushing it).
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Zalusithix said:
Nah, full persistence isn't going to happen. Anything sold isn't full persistence. That's reserved for the large cap ships. Ones larger than the Javelin destroyer. The Polaris is going to be corvette around the size of the initial Idris concept before it ballooned into frigate. That "small" of a ship should be easier to field than an Idris (let alone a Javelin), but still ideally need at least a handful of real humans.

I'm really interested in seeing what they do with it, but unless they have some really interesting non-combat variant, I won't be getting one. Already have the Idris for the "far too big for myself" class warship. Meanwhile anything larger than something like the Carrack is to big for a personal ship (and even that's likely pushing it).
Click to expand...

Yeah, TBH I am still wondering if I should shoot for getting an 890 when they come around again.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
staticneuron said:
Yeah, TBH I am still wondering if I should shoot for getting an 890 when if they come around again.
Click to expand...

FTFY.

The 890 interests me. I'm not sure why, since it's not really a useful ship but I still have some desire for it lol. Perhaps swap out the Phoenix depending on the redesign. It's not like I need the multipurpose flexibility of the Constellation anymore. Thing is, I imagine if the 890 does go on sale again, it'll be a F5 lottery with many people chomping at the bit. I can't be bothered with that.
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Zalusithix said:
FTFY.

The 890 interests me. I'm not sure why, since it's not really a useful ship but I still have some desire for it lol. Perhaps swap out the Phoenix depending on the redesign. It's not like I need the multipurpose flexibility of the Constellation anymore. Thing is, I imagine if the 890 does go on sale again, it'll be a F5 lottery with many people chomping at the bit. I can't be bothered with that.
Click to expand...

You have a point. I feel the same way. I guess I was hoping on a hanger ready sale but if it is limited then not sure if I am up for the refresh game as well.
 
G

Geist-

Member
tuxfool said:
September Town Hall with a mix of Austin people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LKRlppGfgs&feature=youtu.be
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http://imperialnews.network/2016/09/september-subscriber-town-hall-summary/

  • Today’s Townhall featured three developers from the Austin team: Lead Animator Bryan Brewer, Austin Studio Producer Jake Ross, and 3D Modeller Josh Coons.
  • Bryan has been working on background animations for the PU such as NPCs and making them feel alive along with thousands of other animations that haven’t been seen yet for upcoming releases.
  • Jake Ross has also been focused on getting the background animations for NPCs hooked up in the PU along with CitizenCon prep and the eventual 3.0 release.
  • Josh Coons is finishing up the LOD’s on the Herald which is nearing its final phases. He has also started white boxing the Cutlass and bringing it much closer to its original concept look and feel.
  • Josh also is working on the Phoenix, still in planning stages but he wants it to feel “Baller” on the inside.
  • They talked about metrics and how important it was for them to define various things such as cockpit seats, chair placements, etc in order to prevent issues down the line.
  • Disciplines working together is something they all agreed is a constant and necessary thing. It’s very helpful to know what comes before and after your work. Bryan knows rigging and design, so when it comes to him animating a character or something, he knows what works and if it doesn’t he can send it back right away with what needs to be fixed before he can start work on it.
  • To follow up, communication is vital in the project, very rarely do things get missed in the lines of communication such as bugs, features, etc. Every studio communicates with each other daily. Austin is centralised in the sense that they are able to talk to all studio’s at some point throughout the day and schedule meetings, priorities, etc.
  • They also said it’s not uncommon for a studio to need something from another that’s across the world when they’re unavailable. However they have enough people spread around that they can diagnose it with the help of another studio in the same area like Austin to LA, or Frankfurt to UK until they can get a hold of the studio they need the next day or later on.
  • Grabby hands is no more, it’s now Loot system 2.0! It’s essentially a more refined grabby hands that has one hand and two handed pickups and an array of styles to hold items.
  • Blending animations such as walking up to a ship to enter it and preventing that “Snap” to animation is something they’re working on. It’s easier with NPCs, but more difficult with players.
  • Beards are expected when you work at Austin, except if you’re female.
Click to expand...

So 2 of my ships are being actively worked on and they're working on blending animations. Sweeeeeeeeet!
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
So this latest article is about the FPS module: http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/29/what-happened-to-star-marine-star-citizens-missing-module

It says that the FPS gameplay wasn't there at the start...does anyone know if that's true?

While players would sometimes venture out of the cockpit, it wasn’t the focus, and so there wasn’t a pressing need to work on first-person systems to cater for it. As Star Citizen’s feature set grew, though, with stretch goals expanding its ambition with each passing month, more and more of the game would rely on first-person systems: boarding ships, going for a space walk, exploring space stations, on-foot shooting.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that the FPS gameplay was there all along. While the kickstarter doesn't outright mention it, I can't see any stretch goals that involved adding it to the game. There's one for adding boarding specific gameplay mechanics and one for FPS gameplay on planets (it says not just space stations, so that must have been in before), but both of this imply that the FPS gameplay was already going to be present.
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
G

Geist-

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
So this latest article is about the FPS module: http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/29/what-happened-to-star-marine-star-citizens-missing-module

It says that the FPS gameplay wasn't there at the start...does anyone know if that's true?



I was under the impression that the FPS gameplay was there all along. While the kickstarter doesn't outright mention it, I can't see any stretch goals that involved adding it to the game. There's one for adding boarding specific gameplay mechanics and one for FPS gameplay on planets (it says not just space stations, so that must have been in before), but both of this imply that the FPS gameplay was already going to be present.
Click to expand...

The first person part was always there. It's the shooter part that wasn't necessarily there until the ship boarding stretch goal.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
Geist- said:
The first person part was always there. It's the shooter part that wasn't necessarily there until the ship boarding stretch goal.
Click to expand...

Are you sure on that? That doesn't seem right based on the information presented via that stretch goal.

The goal itself says:

Ship boarding – learn more about how Star Citizen will allow players to conduct boarding operations.
Click to expand...

And the letter for it says:

...We’ll also expand the boarding mechanic, outlined below.
Click to expand...

As promised, we’d like to share the internal concept for ship-to-ship docking and boarding concept.
Click to expand...

All of these imply it was already going to be there, the goal for just to give players information about it and expand it.
 
G

Geist-

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
Are you sure on that? That doesn't seem right based on the information presented via that stretch goal.

The goal itself says:



And the letter for it says:





All of these imply it was already going to be there, the goal for just to give players information about it and expand it.
Click to expand...

What I mean is, yes, it was always going to be there, but until they got more funding it wouldn't have been a focus of development. They were going to do ship combat, walking around, and eventually first person combat. The first person shooter aspect of the game just wasn't going to be a thing so soon into development (similar to how Elite is planning to do it, although I think even if they got less funding they would have done FPS combat sooner than Elite).
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
Geist- said:
What I mean is, yes, it was always going to be there, but until they got more funding it wouldn't have been a focus of development. They were going to do ship combat, walking around, and eventually first person combat. The first person shooter aspect of the game just wasn't going to be a thing so soon into development (similar to how Elite is planning to do it, although I think even if they got less funding they would have done FPS combat sooner than Elite).
Click to expand...

The Kotaku article suggests that the FPS gameplay wasn't added until a stretch goal, though. I can't remember seeing anything that said it wasn't going to be there from the start, where did they say it wasn't going to be included until later on?
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
I was there during the Kickstarter campaign and I recall my understanding of it being that there would be no first-person shooting in the game until that boarding goal was met. I think first-person moving around was always planned.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
Danthrax said:
I was there during the Kickstarter campaign and I recall my understanding of it being that there would be no first-person shooting in the game until that boarding goal was met. I think first-person moving around was always planned.
Click to expand...

That's not what the boarding goal suggests, though.
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
CitizenCon details announced: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15536-CitizenCon-2946-Details

Twitch livestreams 3 to 9 p.m. Friday and Saturday next week. The big presentation starts 6 p.m. EDT Sunday.

CIG said:
Join us on Sunday, October 9th as we celebrate the fourth anniversary of Star Citizen’s crowdfunding campaign with you, our amazing community. Hosted by Chris Roberts, watch as we showcase what we’ve been working on since last year’s event, and take a look ahead at continuing work on both Squadron 42 and the Procedural Planets system slated to come online in Star Citizen Alpha 3.0. Of course, that’s not all you can expect from our CitizenCon Presentation, but you’ll have to tune in on October 9th to find out more!
Click to expand...
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Danthrax said:
I was there during the Kickstarter campaign and I recall my understanding of it being that there would be no first-person shooting in the game until that boarding goal was met. I think first-person moving around was always planned.
Click to expand...

That is what I understood as well and it was expanded at 20 million goal.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

But they hit the boarding goal less than a month from starting kickstarter. You might as well say the mechanic was there from the start.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
staticneuron said:
That is what I understood as well and it was expanded at 20 million goal.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

But they hit the boarding goal less than a month from starting kickstarter. You might as well say the mechanic was there from the start.
Click to expand...

That goal says "Don’t just battle on space stations and platforms … take the fight to the ground!" meaning it was already there for space stations and platforms, though. The boarding goal right near the start says it's expanding the boarding gameplay (it doesn't say it's a goal to add it to the game, just expand it and detail how it'll work), so that also must have been in before that. Considering there isn't anything before that 3.5mil goal that is to specifically add FPS gameplay that i can see, surely it must have been there all along?
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
From here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12777-35-Million-Unlock

CIG said:
The $3.5 million level scores three major unlocks: the 45th star system (Orion), cockpit customization (bobble heads, dinosaurs and more!) and the ship-to-ship boarding mechanic!
Click to expand...

And later in that article:

CIG said:
Boarding Information

As promised, we’d like to share the internal concept for ship-to-ship docking and boarding concept. Please note that this is the very early pitch—some details may change as we balance the game and build out/expand the mechanic!

Boarding Mechanics

The goal is to develop a system where player-to-player boarding is an occasional reward rather than something that becomes the focus of the game; we’re not building Grand Theft Starship. As such, we need a high cost of entry: players must dedicate both significant resources and skill to be able to put themselves in a position to board in the first place.

There are two major limitations on docking: 1) the target ship must be COMPLETELY disabled before it can be boarder and 2) docking requires the attacking player to dedicate credits and slots to several gate technologies, including a docking collar and a tractor beam.

Disabling a target ship is a much more difficult task than it was in Wing Commander, where leech weapons would simply wear down the target. In Star Citizen, the player needs to knock down the enemy ships’ shields and then (without causing a hull breach) pick off the individual thrusters. This is the skill barrier: if you can’t shoot well enough to take apart a ship piece by piece then you can’t board an enemy ship.

Tractor Beams are a dangerous technology. They take up a standard gun slot and are designed for collecting material significantly less massive than their host ship (escaped pilots, cargo pallets, bobbleheads, etc.) As such, there’s a constant danger of overloading when using them to dock, especially with cheaper models. Additionally, they require that the target ship be ABSOLUTELY DISABLED – firing a tractor beam at a ship that still has functional thrusters will overload it and severely damage the attacker.

A docking collar is needed to attach ships together. As with tractor beams, different levels are available which will allow connections to different sizes of ships; boarding something large like a carrier is much easier than something your own size, like a Constellation (disabling another Constellation’s thrusters will require a crack shot, to say the least, and a much more accurate collar.) If the game hits the $4 million mark, collarless external ship combat will be added with pilots in pressure suits wearing EMUs able to battle it out in space; explosive charges would be used to open the targeted ship’s airlock.

The standard VDU will not identify whether or not a ship is completely disabled; it will have a gut feel/skill element to it. Higher software upgrades will provide more in-depth scans of a target that will give you a better assurance that no maneuvering remains in place… for a price.

Also note that docking mechanics do NOT apply to ships with a single crewman or certain smaller bombers; the general rule is that if there’s not room to walk around then only the salvage mechanic can apply to it. You need a crewed ship to board in the first place and you can only board crewed ships which are larger than your own (in crew size.)

Combat

Once a ship has successfully tractored in a target vessel, it will dock at a pre-determined location on the hull (ie, you will always dock at one of the same doors on the Constellation.) There will be a 30-second period where the attacking player cuts open the target’s door. The defender can use that time to set up to fire back. Think an interactive recreation of the opening scene of Star Wars, with the Rebels nervously waiting to defend the corvette from Stormtroopers.

Players will have access to a variety of upgrades to help/hinder boarding operations. Armored space suits, hand scanners, explosives, more powerful (or functionally different) weapons and so on will be available to players on both sides of the equations.

Defending players will have upgrade options that can help put the battle in their favor: a self destruct process, a dead man’s switch, automated miniguns they can position in the cockpit and so on. It’s going to be a challenge to get onboard a targeted ship successfully, one that you’ll need to work with your friends to accomplish.

Finally, the cost to recover a boarded ship will ultimately be high. Since you’ve disabled and otherwise crippled it in battle (and cut into the hull to board) you must conduct repairs in deep space if you wish to keep the hull rather than simply looting it… during which the ship is in danger of being boarded by a third party. Boarding parties should plan to carry an advance repair bot with them or to suffer the difficulty of flying in a depressurized cockpit (limited life support time, less responsive controls.) Finally, only one ship can be flown at once: you will need to work with a partner if you wish to keep a boarded ship and your own craft.

$4.0 million Level Additions

Melee & Heavy Weapons
Zero-gravity Simulation
Suit HUD Options
Increased Customization
Outside-the-ship combat (magnetic boots on a hull; think Moonraker)
Click to expand...


The information is very focused specifically on boarding a disabled ship from your own ship, but this was basically the first mention of being able to initiate combat with other players outside of sitting in a cockpit. It technically was a stretch goal, even if it was an early one (achieved Nov. 14).



[edit] While poking around the old archives, I thought the estimated system requirements were quaint: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12734-Draft-FAQ

CIG said:
Can you estimate the system requirements for Star Citizen?

There will be a lot of optimization in the next 24-months, plus the usual fast pace of technology, so it is hard to say absolutely. At the moment you will be able to play it on a dual core PC with a GTX 460 or greater and 4GB of system memory. If you’re running an i7 2500, 2600, 2700 or better with a GTX 670 or greater then the stars are the limit! Since the game is built on CryEngine, their system requirements will stay roughly the same as ours.
Click to expand...
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Reading that article makes sense about the delay, and definitely shows growing pains. While I understand the difficulty of having different code base was the "scale" of the assets that big of a deal? Couldn't someone rescale these prebuilt assets into something more usable? I understand it may take time but unless I am missing something, they are talking about art assets right?
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
Danthrax said:
From here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12777-35-Million-Unlock

The information is very focused specifically on boarding a disabled ship from your own ship, but this was basically the first mention of being able to initiate combat with other players outside of sitting in a cockpit. It technically was a stretch goal, even if it was an early one (achieved Nov. 14).
Click to expand...

That boarding mechanic stretch goal letter doesn't really make any mention of it including the addition of FPS gameplay itself, though. Everything it outlines is an additional feature specifically related to ship boarding. The closet thing to hinting that it adds FPS gameplay is the paragraph that starts with "Players will have access to a variety of upgrades to help/hinder boarding operations." but that only gives examples of the things you can use to defend or attack ships.

Infact, in an AMA on Reddit from before that stretch goal was met Chris says boarding will be in the game. He says there will be FPS gameplay and this was all posted before the game was even funded, only 4 days after the Kickstarter began.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/11wivt/i_am_chris_roberts_creator_of_wing_commander/c6q6xv8
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
staticneuron said:
Reading that article makes sense about the delay, and definitely shows growing pains. While I understand the difficulty of having different code base was the "scale" of the assets that big of a deal? Couldn't someone rescale these prebuilt assets into something more usable? I understand it may take time but unless I am missing something, they are talking about art assets right?
Click to expand...

The issue here is that I don't think that at the time when they started, that they had all the metrics dialled in. So whatever animation or function worked for SM wouldn't work out in the PU. You couldn't also build up your maps by mixing and matching lego components, you'd have to do bespoke massaging of all the elements.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
Haven't been able to keep up much with the news, I went on holiday and I came back this week only to have to suffer a personal loss. I'm seriously exhausted, and what I glance from that Kotaku thread doesn't make it better either. Is there still some good news for this game?
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
Eh lowering the speed and increasing the thrust looks to be counterproductive. Sliding should be a good thing as long as it is manageable and predictable. That's the problem with current flight, there is no fine control so you are fighting the computer as well as your input to try to make it work.

Going with what they are talking about just leads to more FPS like play (like they were showing).
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
tuxfool said:
The issue here is that I don't think that at the time when they started, that they had all the metrics dialled in. So whatever animation or function worked for SM wouldn't work out in the PU. You couldn't also build up your maps by mixing and matching lego components, you'd have to do bespoke massaging of all the elements.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, makes sense. Thanks for pointing those issues out.

Daedardus said:
Haven't been able to keep up much with the news, I went on holiday and I came back this week only to have to suffer a personal loss. I'm seriously exhausted, and what I glance from that Kotaku thread doesn't make it better either. Is there still some good news for this game?
Click to expand...


Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope things get better for you.
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
Daedardus said:
Haven't been able to keep up much with the news, I went on holiday and I came back this week only to have to suffer a personal loss. I'm seriously exhausted, and what I glance from that Kotaku thread doesn't make it better either. Is there still some good news for this game?
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your loss, Daedardus. Condolances.

There's been lots of tasty tidbits coming from the various CIG shows and interviews over the past few weeks. Imo, just forget about it and get your ass ready for CitizenCon. Should be the best one yet.
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Daedardus said:
Haven't been able to keep up much with the news, I went on holiday and I came back this week only to have to suffer a personal loss. I'm seriously exhausted, and what I glance from that Kotaku thread doesn't make it better either. Is there still some good news for this game?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear that, Daed.

The good news is that the game is still being made and everything will be OK. Haters can't stop this train.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
Daedardus said:
Haven't been able to keep up much with the news, I went on holiday and I came back this week only to have to suffer a personal loss. I'm seriously exhausted, and what I glance from that Kotaku thread doesn't make it better either. Is there still some good news for this game?
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about that Deadardus. I wish you the best!
 
G

Geist-

Member
tuxfool said:
I'm sorry for your loss Daedardus.



Also, here is the first part of the GamersNexus interview with Sean Tracy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB_AI9ukSp8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB_AI9ukSp8
Click to expand...
Zabojnik said:
GamersNexus - Sean Tracy on 64-bit Engine Tech & Procedural Edge Blending - Part 1

EDIT: Ffs, tux.
Click to expand...
Dictator93 said:
oh god

I love ST
Gamer's Nexus interview - part 1 with Sean Tracy

edit: 15 minutes late to the PARTY!!!
Click to expand...
Danthrax said:
Hey guys, Sean Tracy did a new interview with Gamer's Nexus, check it out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB_AI9ukSp8
Click to expand...
Ez41kng.gif
 
I

inkls

Member
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/30/what-to-make-of-star-citizen

The last piece from that kotaku sc series article. Also some quotes pulled from the reddit thread:

  • "It is difficult, after all these months of research and having heard from so many people involved with the project, to seriously entertain the notion that Star Citizen is some kind of intentional scam."
  • "For the record, we did look into all kinds of wild claims about how Cloud Imperium Games is spending its money, and found nothing reportable."
  • "If there is anything more nefarious than that going on, we have found no convincing evidence of it."
  • "There is abundant evidence of its past and ongoing development, more than enough to account for the money that has been raised."
Click to expand...
 
Zalusithix

Zalusithix

Member
SmartBase said:
I like to shit on their design decisions fairly often but people seriously claiming the project is a scam is kinda ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can disagree with the way the project was/is handled. Points and counterpoints can be made for that sort of thing. Some points will be stronger than others, but at least the conversation would be grounded in reality. The scam mentality though only makes sense if you're totally ignorant of Star Citizen, or live in DS's conspiracy land. Nothing can back the claim up.
 
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