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Star Fox Adventures' flaws: result of incompetence, or dev issues? (Probably both.)

Recently, I've been playing DK64 on the Wii U VC, and while the restore point feature is a saving grace, it's remarkable to me how on the low end of Rare's N64 output is, even if it's merely decent. I'd honestly say it's the first big sign that Rare was losing their touch before it really became apparent once they started making games for Microsoft, and just went straight downhill from there.

I was thinking about that, then I remembered Star Fox Adventures, and how much of a mixed bag it was.

Adventures, as we all know, had a bit of a problematic development history, first being Dinosaur Planet on the N64, and then transitioning over to the Gamecube as a Star Fox game (the why isn't really clear, there's a lot of hearsay, whether it be either Nintendo mandating the change (possibly to deny Microsoft ownership of another Rare IP) or Miyamoto merely suggesting it, and whether the switch to the GC was another mandate or the result of Rare realizing that the N64 wasn't truly able to handle what they wanted to do with Dinosaur Planet), so I won't go into that in great detail. And then there was the Microsoft buyout, which forced Rare to rush development (again, why Rare wasn't retained by Nintendo is also basically the subject of speculation). The dev history of that game is really unclear, to my knowledge.

I still think Adventures is a pretty good game - the visuals, atmosphere and music are fantastic, they actually did a pretty great job with the Arwing sections despite them being mainly filler, the main dungeons were very different compared to Zelda and the combat simple and satisfying, but it does have some fairly glaring flaws. A chunk of the blame is probably due to rushing the game out (there are certainly parts of the game that we know got dummied out due to having to actually get the game finished), I think, but I'm pretty certain Rare didn't really know what it was doing for a big chunk of the stuff they screwed up.

Firstly, let's get the most annoying bugbear out of the way: Tricky. He was pretty much a prime example of an annoying kid sidekick, but he was around in Dinosaur Planet as well, and even was supposed to have a twin who would hang around Krystal for a bit. Aside from his voice and general character, he really didn't do much of, well, anything. Aside from the bits where you absolutely needed to use his abilities, unless you were going for 100%, he was pretty much, well, there. Kind of a waste, really.
The continuity nod in Assault where he's all grown up was a neat touch on Namco's part, though.

Then there's Krystal. I really do feel bad for her, going from a co-protagonist to a distressed damsel for literally all of the game after the introduction sequence to right before the final boss, and considering the evidence of what Rare actually implemented in-game and what was in the game's files, I'm going to also say her role was mainly the result of poor design decisions, they could've actually fit her in the main gameplay without much trouble (or just replaced Tricky's role entirely so they wouldn't have to program him). Had she been a controllable co-protagonist who you could switch to and from in gameplay, she could've actually played off Fox, developed their characters and gotten enough time to show some chemistry, not to mention the potential for puzzles. Hell, she might not have had nearly as much of a hatedom.
Maybe.

Also, a lot of the stuff outside of the main dungeons, such as the Force Point temples, Krazoa spirits, etc? Pretty much filler. I'll probably chalk this one up more to dev issues, but I think there's some poor design here and there as well with these, such as the Lightfoot challenges and the Test of Fear, though the latter aced the presentation, I think.

The narrative in general? Yeah, that was a mess. Then again, if you were really expecting a well-written 'serious' plot from Rare, I would've slapped you. Rare's generally at their best narrative-wise when they're just being silly as all hell. The voice acting is mixed-to-bad.

These are pretty much the flaws I can really remember right now, feel free to bring up stuff I overlooked. I'd say Adventures was one of the big indicators of Rare's fall from grace, and I can't help but think that a lot of the game's flaws are their fault rather than being due to Nintendo or the MS buyout - I think some other devs would've done a lot better with what they were working with. But I was interested in seeing what others thought about how and why certain parts of Adventures ended up as they did.
 
Great OP! I agree with pretty much all of your points. I don't think I ever did beat the game. My wife and I tried it several times years after I first played it and didn't beat it then either. Two other issues for me were the grating shopkeeper and the fetch quests. The game had some positive aspects and really wowed me with its graphics, but on the whole was just not that compelling to me.
 
I don't know, your list of problems is basically "I didn't like Tricky, I wanted Krystal to be playable and there was some filler in a game".

Star Fox Adventures is a totally fine Zelda clone. But its a game that switched consoles and had an existing IP attached mid development, and launched the day before a corporate buyout, of course there were development issues and it seems disingenuous to imply that this was because of any kind of incompetence of the development team.

Its definitely a game with issues, most likely because it had to be rushed to released on the date it was, but its still a totally fine and servicable game.
 
Rare got stuck too much in the collect-a-thon mindset that they lost sight of what makes games fun. There are exceptions (Blast Corp was genius, Banjo struck a good balance, Goldeneye, Diddy Kong Racing and Perfect Dark worked well being in different genres etc., Viva Pinata was a return to form imo) but personally I thought it all started with DKC3 where the amount of collectibles was further on-upped from what I felt was the prefect balance in DKC2.
 
One thing in this game that I just can't get over is the "fight" with General Scales, which abruptly ends moments before you get a chance to attack him.
 
I got a feeling that even if we got the actual DP game, it would be underwhelming like Adventures.
 
The arwing sections were great? Not even slightly. You only had to grab a number of gold rings and then could just fly straight through everything. Not even a little challenging
 
Yeah I don't think DK64 was a sign of Rare losing its touch and more a sign of Rare needing someone to step in and say "stop thats enough shit to grab" which they did seemingly learn after the reception of DK64 was mixed. I also thought a big reason Nintendo ended up letting Rare go was due to the fact they HAD to bundle the N64 expansion thing with the game due to the game breaking bug they could find no other way to fix. I dunno if that was ever confirmed to be true but I do remember reading that in other discussions about the Rare buy out.

I do agree Star Fox Adventures is a victim of a rushed development thats obvious even without knowing the games history when you play it. I still think its a good game despite the flaws you and others have pointed out though I'm not sure what the better solution would have been. I'm pretty sure part of the reason to make it Star Fox was due to the reason the main protagonist (Krystal) was an anthropomorphic fox and it'd be very strange to have two radically different Nintendo IP both star anthropomorphic foxes that weren't related. I do agree the game probably would have been better if controll switched between Fox and Krystal segments or switched between them as protagonist to solve puzzles and fight enemies. Make Fox sections play a bit more like a tps or jet force gemini and Krystal play like how Adventures actually plays. I liked the idea of Tricky but he needed to be developed better I 100% agree, either by having Fox and Krystal separate each with their own buddy dino or having them work together but interact with Tricky differently.

Even if Microsoft had not decided to buy out Rare of Nintendo had stepped up and done the same I dunno how much more dev time Adventures would have gotten or if it would have been released in the same state it was. It's also hard to say if Rare would have still "lost its touch" under Nintendo though their games probably would have sold better as Nintendo titles and would have probably ended up in Smash Bros Brawl which would have futher boosted the popularity and sales of those games. Banjo Threeie wouldn't have turned into a shitty kart racer builder thing which would have also gone a long way.
 
I think it's probably unfair to play the "incompetence" card in this situation. Sure, they were going to be too late to the N64 party and had to start over on the Gamecube. That threw a big wrench in the game's development. Pair that with the Microsoft deal that probably severely limited the game's deadline, and you have a clearly rushed and cobbled together game. The game has a terrible flow, and just lacks polish.
 
a lot of people are missing the fact that rare had already problems during their near-finishing of perfect dark. a lot of people left for several companies, most of the rareware staff left for timesplitters before starfox adventures hit the shelves.

still the quality and the output werent slowed down. nintendo had their problems because rare RARELY put out some games and it took too many months to release games.

nintendo was angry because dk64, conker and jet force gemini werent as good as expected.

still, as a kid i was super shocked to see a former nintendo company now working exclusively for the major back then enemy.
during the OG xbox lifecycle, rare only released two games. one remake and one medicre game. a sign that rare is done for.

oh and i forgot:

people compared starfox adventures with zelda, but this game never was a starfox game nor a zelda copy.
it was an explorer-game, no real remarkable bosses nor the arwing sections being good.

the only thing the game did good was showing what the gamecube was capable of.
water and the fur were looking extraordinary good.
 
I have a personal opinion on Star Fox Adventures, and it's that every 25% further I went into the game, how much I liked it was reduced by 25%. I remember that first few hours with the game felt magical, but slowly the design started to wear on me, the fetch quests got tiresome and the overall design decayed. Then you reach the end when
that horrible bait-and-switch cut-and-paste from previous Star Fox games final boss fight takes place
and you're left wondering how the hell it got this bad.

I would say it's possible that Nintendo's meddling with the game probably knocked it off course. The Star Fox property never really meshed or felt natural. We'll likely never know. But damn, it was beautiful.
 
SFA has one issue and it's the fact that every two seconds you have to feed Tricky
Aside that it's a great game, yeah maybe the Star Fox franchise isn't perfectly adequate but it didn't hurt the game.
 
I still unabashedly enjoyed the game.

That being said, I still wish it could have had that extra polish, a real General Scales fight before it turns to Andross. Those speeder races are my favourite part of the game and I genuinely wish there was a way to do time trials with different courses. Who knows of we could have seen more of them if the Rare buyout didn't happen.

I remember coming across one hell of a glitch once, though. I was running through the stone alleyway that leads to the Lightfoot village. All of a sudden everything just turns into geometric shapes and the audio has this nasty whine coming out of my speakers. Fortunately I thought to save before it happened, but it freaked me the hell out in grade 6 and I have no idea how to recreate it. Doesn't seem anyone else I ever talked to had any idea what I was talking about.
 
I remember I waited most of 2002 for that game, and it finally came out in September. First it was March, then it was June... the delays were silly.

I noticed even when I playing it for the first time, that many areas seemed to be cut down from once-planned larger areas. Especially the parts of the game near the beach area and the forest... there are clearly areas that were originally in the game but simply had a wall placed in front of them. I think Rare knew it was the final game they would make for Nintendo, and the game had had a trouble, weird development, and they probably had to take development resources away from certain levels in order to make the Star Fox rail shooter segments that were added in during the final year.

Overall, I do have fond memories of that game. It is very much on the short side, though. A lot of your abilities go unused.
 
I like this game a lot. Of course it has flaws, but that doesn't mean the devs were incompetent. That's a bit insulting imo.
 
I never understood what's so extraordinary bad about this game. I haven't finished it but the graphics were amazing, the combat was satisfying and it has the coolest Fox to this day. Stopped playing for a while and when I got back to it, I didn't know what to do next and eventually just lost interest (another plus; lack of handholding [unless I just overlooked the right information]).

I'll probably play it again and finish it to find out what it does so criminally wrong one day.
 
i have weird fuzzy memories of this game. i completed it, but i can't actually *remember* any of it besides a few snapshots in my mind.

i thought the graphics looked great for the time. and that's about the only lasting impression it made on me.
 
I honestly don't remember much from this game. I know that I enjoyed what I played from it. But I gave up at the fear challenge, that was too hard for me lol
 
It's a good game that was too bloated, they just got too much budget and didn't know how to control themselves. It's not always easy pioneering genres but there is clearly a great game in there, where as with something like ghoulies wouldn't be easy to fix into something special.
 
I remember disliking the autocombos that they added to the combat. Compared to Zelda, they somehow seemed to make the combat slower and more sluggish. I also really didn't like any of their original characters in the game. It seemed like the only characters that had personality or humor that worked were the Star Fox ones, so I fear that if it stayed as its own IP, the writing might have been even worse.

Anyway, a small nitpick I have with this game is some of the missed opportunities to use Star Fox elements. The on-rails shooting sections against some of the bosses could have incorporated the Arwings without changing them significantly. There's also a bit in the beginning of the game where Fox complains about not being allowed to take his blaster to the mission, but then... you get the ability to shoot from the staff anyway, so why not just give the blaster in the first place? Rare could have done better with integrating the Star Fox elements.
 
It's a good game that was too bloated, they just got too much budget and didn't know how to control themselves. It's not always easy pioneering genres but there is clearly a great game in there, where as with something like ghoulies wouldn't be easy to fix into something special.

It's strange, there's definitely bloat at the beginning. But by the time you get to the last two areas the game is over pretty quickly. That last world (Dragon rock from memory) really didn't have that much to it, though mechanically it was my favourite to go through. I think that's the true hallmark of a rushed game, that the second half is over much quicker than the first, which is a real shame, since the halfway point is when Adventures really ramped up for me.

I recently finished a playthrough of it, and aside from its aforementioned problems, I still think it is an excellent early Gamecube title, and one that is unfortunately forgotten, only remembered by Rare fans as a disappointment compared to the rest of their output or by Star Fox fans for diverting too far from the core mechanics of the series.

If anyone hasn't played Star Fox Adventures and has any interest in the Gamecube or action adventure titles along the lines of Zelda, I do highly recommend giving it a play.
 
Even had the game not been rushed, it still would have been a mediocre game.

The problem wasn't that it was a Zelda clone but that Fox felt really out of place and if you removed the entire Star Fox cast you wouldn't be able to tell that it's a Star Fox game.

Rare needed to add more element from Star Fox while introducing new stuff for the series, they also needed a better Arwing sections and allowed Fox to use his blaster as well using the cane.

One thing in this game that I just can't get over is the "fight" with General Scales, which abruptly ends moments before you get a chance to attack him.

Yeah that was stupid as well, it was almost like they remembered that they were making a Star Fox game and needed to shoehorn in Andross.
 
I don't know if I'd say it was developer incompetence so much as just aimless design. It wasn't a Star Fox game initially and then when it became one I imagine a lot of dev time was lost to the Arwing flight segments even though they weren't that important to the game.

I agree about the story though. Rare isn't really good at anything serious, and they went too far towards Zelda when they should have been trying to aim for the more pulpy Star Fox tone. It should have felt like one of those classic sci-fi stories where an astronaut gets stranded on a world with weird magic and tribal cultures and stuff but they didn't let Fox be properly stranded or isolated and they didn't really play up the "guy with a laser pistol on a world of people with swords and spears" thing at all, which should have probably been their focus with a game like this.

I think the game could have been significantly better if given another year or so of dev time, but considering it had been in the works since the N64 and Rare takes a looooong time to produce anything, I imagine they got to the point where Rare wanted to be done with it and Nintendo just kind of shrugged and let them release it since it seemed good enough.

Either way the problem at it's core is that it's not something people really wanted out of Star Fox. It feels like a genre mismatch in the same way that Link's Crossbow Training didn't exactly light the world on fire. The difference? Link's Crossbow Training wasn't marketed as the next major Zelda adventure. Star Fox Adventures was the followup to Star Fox 64 and marketed as such.
 
I like this game a lot, honestly. It even ended up being one of my favorite games on the system, and I didn't finish it once.
BUT 5 TIMES
Don't get me wrong, I'm quite aware of its flaws, I know that Tricky is annoying and useless as hell, that Krystal was underused, that the Arwing parts were plain bad, that the whole game is super easy, super short, badly paced, that the scenario is bad and should have nothing to do with the Starfox franchise...
but still, MAN, I had so much fun with it ;_;
 
I actually really like this game, and being a starfox fan I was happy fox got a girlfriend which then became part of the team for assault.
 
One thing in this game that I just can't get over is the "fight" with General Scales, which abruptly ends moments before you get a chance to attack him.

So stupid! Why not let us actually complete the boss fight and then move on to the "real" final boss.

I was so excited for Dinosaur Planet on N64, but the climate was just not right for that platform. SFA was ok, but fell short of my expectations in the end. It was a star crossed project.
 
I loved Star Fox Adventures. But Tricky? Not really. If I still had my copy, I honestly would do another play through.
 
Rare just chose the wrong time to start making another N64 game. Then I guess Miyamoto had to pull a "Miyamoto" and make them make the game into something it's not. They were obviously rushed for time as about halfway through the game you start backtracking far more often, the collectibles become more useless, and the weird mini games start popping up everywhere. Fox feels like he is just there because he wasn't meant to actually be the protagonist. Still baffles me how the actual StarFox element of the game sucks, too. Assault should have been in its place and then another perfecting that formula when Assault eventually came out.

Personally I straight up blame Nintendo and Miyamoto for this mediocre game. We shouldn't have gotten StarFox like this, it's a series about animal pilots, not solving puzzles. The only thing I appreciate is Krystal becoming a StarFox character.
 
I like this game a lot, honestly. It even ended up being one of my favorite games on the system, and I didn't finish it once.
BUT 5 TIMES
Don't get me wrong, I'm quite aware of its flaws, I know that Tricky is annoying and useless as hell, that Krystal was underused, that the Arwing parts were plain bad, that the whole game is super easy, super short, badly paced, that the scenario is bad and should have nothing to do with the Starfox franchise...
but still, MAN, I had so much fun with it ;_;

You're not alone, I also really liked it and finished multiple times.
 
nce they started making games for Microsoft, and just went straight downhill from there.
Äh-hem

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I remember renting this and enjoying it, but also being extremely aware that I was happy I'd rented it and not dropped money on buying it. FInished it in a weekend and saw no reason to look back.

I remember thinking it was pretty, and I still sometimes get the Thorntail Hollow theme stuck in my head, years and years later, as well as a "Timed Challenge" song that sounded very "DK64," but that I can never seem to find on YouTube.

I also remember that the combat almost entirely fell apart once I realized there was a specific, simple combo where Fox would spin/twirl the staff that did more damage faster and safer than just about anything else and basically made doing anything else in combat obsolete unless it was required.

Oh, I also remember that if you, y'know, did what every video game ever has taught you to do and save at the final save point, then that save file is FUCKED because you can never do anything from that save point except go into the final battle and watch the ending. REALLY SHITTY DESIGN OVERSIGHT for a Rare collect-a-thon Zelda-clone.
 
The Arwing segments were flaccid and then laughable.

Nuts and Bolts was a good game even if it wasn't the Banjo game people wanted. Yes, it would have been received better as a new IP but maybe it would not have even gotten made if it were. I don't really think it was either Banjo 3 or Nuts and Bolts as options.
 
The narrative in general? Yeah, that was a mess. Then again, if you were really expecting a well-written 'serious' plot from Rare, I would've slapped you. Rare's generally at their best narrative-wise when they're just being silly as all hell. The voice acting is mixed-to-bad.

They had to change so much due to the universe change and then time issues. You should definitely listen to the Dinosaur Planet and early SFA voice acting to see what they had planned!

And the voice acting was mixed-to-bad? I found it absolutely gorgeous. It was incredibly charming, so were the facial animations.
 
Music, atmodsphere, graphics were great, Adventures was a rushed game that never lived up to its potential, but what SF game, besides 64, did?

Those things made it a superior experience to Assault and Command imo.

Flawed, rushed game but with lots of "soul"
 
Adventures was a turd... It succumbed to Rare's incessant desire at that time to turn everything into a collectable. It literally grinds the game to a halt on several occasions. Everything else just makes it worse. The story, the characters, etc could all have been passable but given the framework of the game it was incredibly hard to get over that added few pieces of straw.

Leaving it as Dinosaur Planet would not have fixed the problems... The hour or two of gameplay from that Dinosaur Planet early build that got leaked pretty much confirmed that.

(edit) And as always, for those interested in the development history, Cutting Room Floor has a great article on their wiki. https://tcrf.net/Star_Fox_Adventures
 
The game held my attention from start to finished, and overall I was glad I played through it.

I think what I loved most about the game was how quiet and mellow it was throughout. The story, music and dialog never got too heavy, and I was able to relax and take my time exploring and messing around.
 
a lot of people are missing the fact that rare had already problems during their near-finishing of perfect dark. a lot of people left for several companies, most of the rareware staff left for timesplitters before starfox adventures hit the shelves.

still the quality and the output werent slowed down. nintendo had their problems because rare RARELY put out some games and it took too many months to release games.

nintendo was angry because dk64, conker and jet force gemini werent as good as expected.

still, as a kid i was super shocked to see a former nintendo company now working exclusively for the major back then enemy.
during the OG xbox lifecycle, rare only released two games. one remake and one medicre game. a sign that rare is done for.

oh and i forgot:

people compared starfox adventures with zelda, but this game never was a starfox game nor a zelda copy.
it was an explorer-game, no real remarkable bosses nor the arwing sections being good.

the only thing the game did good was showing what the gamecube was capable of.
water and the fur were looking extraordinary good.

The bolded isn't true at all.

And the reason why Rare only released two games on the original Xbox was because their games were in development hell since they had to switch from Gamecube to Xbox. And then from Xbox to 360.
 
I remember beating this as a kid but I have no recollection of much else. I think we got the game in a bundle with our GCN and I eventually decided it would be good to beat it for completion. I've been kind of curious for a while whether or not I'd like it now, but not enough to actually want to put it back in.
 
Adventures was a turd... It succumbed to Rare's incessant desire at that time to turn everything into a collectable. It literally grinds the game to a halt on several occasions.

And to make matters worse, they make the game way too easy. You get way more resurrect items than you will ever need. Worse than that, it makes exploration unexciting since you will only ever find useless garbage.
There are also way too many timed mini games everywhere that break the pace of the game constantly.

It is also quite impressive how the game utterly falls appart in the last few areas. Even 12 years later, I still feel insulted by the final boss.
 
I thought Adventures was an alright Zelda clone that just shouldn't have had the Star Fox license shoehorned into it. I didn't really see anything else offensively bad about it.
 
I actually really like Adventures, it's probably one of those games that came out at the right time in my life for me to love it. Sort of like the Sonic Adventure games. And it really could have been something great with a bit of redesign and some more time put into it. The other Starfox games aren't really my kind of games, so I can't compare them in good faith.
 
I don't agree that SFA was the sign of Rare's downfall. You have to remember all the problems it had during its development. And despite what many people like to say, SFA wasn't an indicator of how Rare's Gamecube games would've been like. SFA was one game made by one team out of several different teams.
 
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