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[LastNac]

Michael Stackpole (I believe it was Stackpole) has a story about the one time he got to "meet" George Lucas. Basically they took him up to the ranch for a lunch meeting and purposefully sat George at a table near him and waited to see how he would react. Ultimately he didn't freak out and the lunch meeting went fine and he would go on to do the X-Wing books and all the Corran Horn/NJO stuff. That seems to be about as much interaction the EU novel people had with Lucas anyway.

But then you had something like this with the recent Maul game:

"The biggest vision shift, however, came from George Lucas himself. According to one source, Lucas took statues of Darth Maul and Darth Talon - a character from the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse - faced them toward one another, and declared, "They're friends!" When it was brought to Lucas' attention that Maul and Talon lived more than a century and a half apart from one another, Lucas reportedly suggested it could be a clone or descendant that players controlled instead of the original Maul."

The Man's involvement was all over the place. Really though, it sounds like with some of this stuff he had a fairly strong sense of dictation. Why that level of involvement doesn't canonize something, I'll never know.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

I don't get what's so confusing about Sifo Dyas. He was a Jedi Master who died ~10 years prior to AotC (obviously before TPM since he's not on the Council). Sidious and/or Dooku used his name to order the clone army. That's it.

He really did order the clones himself actually, under Plagueis's influence (and with his money).

 

[Warm Machine]

Wrong. The light and dark side of the Force are equally important. Anakin did bring balance to the Force when he helped exterminate the vast Jedi Order. The Prophecy had nothing to do with the resolution in Return of the Jedi.

If the Jedi did not wholly reject the dark side, there would be no need for the Sith to return. If they do return in Episode VII, it will be the will of the Force.

In the OT the darkside was overly powerful. I don't think it is a simple numbers game. Of Sith vs. Jedi. It is that the whole galaxy was controlled by a singular Sith Lord spreading darkness throughout by his rule.

 

[Scooter155]

Most people are skeptical because

A) Star Wars has blown up into a cultural icon, making people remember it as a perfect series of films when it's a flawed franchise like any other

B) The prequel trilogy failed to meet expectations for a lot of people

C) Combining these two things will quite possibly make the hype impossible to meet

D) Disney

I'm personally super psyched for all three new episodes, and I agree with you completely. It's easy to understand where naysayers are coming from, though.

The bolded point doesn't bother me - Disney's been improving a lot lately, since the Pixar merger, really.

They seem to have gotten themselves figured out (You may or may not like Frozen, but it resonated with its target audience), they've helped Marvel get where they are by giving them the right amount of autonomy (I think) and they kickstarted more Star Wars when they bought the franchise. Your other points are all valid and there's plenty of reason for skepticism, but I'm not personally bothered by Disney being involved. For a long time Star Tours has been the best new Star Wars themed entertainment available...

 

[Scooter155]

I don't get what's so confusing about Sifo Dyas. He was a Jedi Master who died ~10 years prior to AotC (obviously before TPM since he's not on the Council). Sidious and/or Dooku used his name to order the clone army. That's it.

He really did order the clones himself actually, under Plagueis's influence (and with his money).

See? Confusion. And I don't think either of those theories is correct!

 

[Loxley]

The bolded point doesn't bother me - Disney's been improving a lot lately, since the Pixar merger, really.

They seem to have gotten themselves figured out (You may or may not like Frozen, but it resonated with its target audience), they've helped Marvel get where they are by giving them the right amount of autonomy (I think) and they kickstarted more Star Wars when they bought the franchise. Your other points are all valid and there's plenty of reason for skepticism, but I'm not personally bothered by Disney being involved. For a long time Star Tours has been the best new Star Wars themed entertainment available...

Yeah, I don't get the concerns about Disney - Marvel have flourished ever since being acquired, I don't see any reason why the Star Wars brand couldn't. Provided the right people are leading the charge, of course.

I'm just glad there will once again be a focus on the original trilogy and onward as far the timeline is concerned. I've never liked the laser-focus on the pre-OT periods of Star Wars history that we've had for the last 15 years. I couldn't be less interested in things like The Old Republic or the Clone Wars at this point. Plus, I'm just tired of the constant complaining about the prequels. We'll finally have new Star Wars for people to scrutinize over, and that's fine by me.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

The Man's involvement was all over the place. Really though, it sounds like with some of this stuff he had a fairly strong sense of dictation. Why that level of involvement doesn't canonize something, I'll never know.

Thats the dumbest part right there isn't it. Micromanages the shit out of the EU with random and bizarre decisions and then just goes "ehhh" and throws it all away. I'm so glad he's finally out of the picture. As much as I hate that the new story group didn't bother to bring the gems of the EU into true canon (which I thought was their purpose), I'm glad everything going forward will be fully incorporated.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

Hacker from Dredd

Omg this deserves to be in the did you know actor thread thingy. What the fuck.

It's the About Time guy!

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

See? Confusion. And I don't think either of those theories is correct!

What? Its right in the Plagueis novel, not a theory at all.

Spoiler

(oh but docto, that book isn't canon!!1) AHHHHHHHHHHHH it until its contradicted.

 

[Scooter155]

Thats the dumbest part right there isn't it. Micromanages the shit out of the EU with random and bizarre decisions and then just goes "ehhh" and throws it all away. I'm so glad he's finally out of the picture. As much as I hate that the new story group didn't bother to bring the gems of the EU into true canon (which I thought was their purpose), I'm glad everything going forward will be fully incorporated.

They may still incorporate some EU elements, or maybe just have things in the Sequels "inspired" by elements from the EU. Maybe they just can't announce what is remaining canon because it would spoil parts of the films?

Mara Jade? Thrawn? Who knows.

 

[Exterminieren]

Chances of Ford NOT mandating that Solo will be killed off in this film are minimal.

I expect to see him die doing something heroic- maybe the Falcon explodes with him in it, or something.

 

[Sephzilla]

I'll never understand why Ford had such a hard on for wanting Solo to die.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'll never understand why Ford had such a hard on for wanting Solo to die.

Because his character had nothing to do and his sacrifice would have given him something to do as well as provided more emotional weight to the final battle against the Empire.

He wasn't the only one who had a "hard-on" for the character dying. The screenwriter did too. And the director was cool with the idea, as well.

 

[Sephzilla]

Because his character had nothing to do and his sacrifice would have given him something to do as well as provided more emotional weight to the final battle against the Empire.

He wasn't the only one who had a "hard-on" for the character dying. The screenwriter did too. And the director was cool with the idea, as well.

I remember reading that for ROTJ they were going to save Solo only to have him die like 30 minutes later in the movie. My first thought after reading that was "that sounds like a lame shock value death".

 

[Scooter155]

What? Its right in the Plagueis novel, not a theory at all.

Spoiler

(oh but docto, that book isn't canon!!1) AHHHHHHHHHHHH it until its contradicted.

A) I stopped reading Star Wars books shortly after the Prequels came out so I wasn't aware of that, sorry. And you made your own point that the books are no longer canon, so who the heck knows? I accept that that might be what George had in mind, but it's not at all clear in the movie.

B) Can we talk for a second about how ridiculous Sith names are? Was "Darth Sidious" ever used as a name for Emperor Palpatine in the OT novelizations? I firmly believe that the original intent was for Darth Vader to be his full name, first name Darth, last name Vader, not that every single Sith had the title "Darth".

Either way though, Darth Vader? Awesome name. Darth Sidious? A little on the nose, but I can live with it. Darth ...Maul?... OK, well now your name is just a word that means to wound someone... that's kind like "Darth Slice" or "Darth Mess You Up"... but hey, it sounds cool so we'll let is slide. Darth Tyranus? OK, what's even going on now? Tyrant, plus Tyrannosaur, I guess? With a fake latin sounding "us" suffix?... Why? Clearly, the reason is that George thought to himself "Oh, that sounds cool, and mean!" but what is the in-universe explanation for such a dumb name?...

Darth Plagueis? OK. I'm out.

 

[BocoDragon]

B) Can we talk for a second about how ridiculous Sith names are? Was "Darth Sidious" ever used as a name for Emperor Palpatine in the OT novelizations? I firmly believe that the original intent was for Darth Vader to be his full name, first name Darth, last name Vader, not that every single Sith had the title "Darth".

Probably. Obi Wan's line in Ep. IV "only a master of evil, Darth" reads like he is saying his opponent's name. The inflection isn't like he's saying a title.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Can we talk for a second about how ridiculous Sith names are? Was "Darth Sidious" ever used as a name for Emperor Palpatine in the OT novelizations? I firmly believe that the original intent was for Darth Vader to be his full name, first name Darth, last name Vader, not that every single Sith had the title "Darth".

Either way though, Darth Vader? Awesome name. Darth Sidious? A little on the nose, but I can live with it. Darth ...Maul?... OK, well now your name is just a word that means to wound someone... that's kind like "Darth Slice" or "Darth Mess You Up"... but hey, it sounds cool so we'll let is slide. Darth Tyranus? OK, what's even going on now? Tyrant, plus Tyrannosaur, I guess? With a fake latin sounding "us" suffix?... Why? Clearly, the reason is that George thought to himself "Oh, that sounds cool, and mean!" but what is the in-universe explanation for such a dumb name?...

Darth Plagueis? OK. I'm out.

I HATED this.

 

[Pagusas]

Probably. Obi Wan's line in Ep. IV "only a master of evil, Darth" reads like he is saying his opponent's name. The inflection isn't like he's saying a title.

I never thought of this! Ugh now I'm going to think that every time I read about a "darth" anything.

But at the same time, Obi Wan knew who Darth Vader really was, so in that logic why would he call him by his that name anyway, he should have called him Anakin.

 

[brandonh83]

All the names are stupid in Star Wars.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

All the names are stupid in Star Wars.

Well, not ALL of them.

But the ones where it looks like someone kicked over a bowl of alpha-bits and threw some apostrophes at it? Yeah, those names suck.

 

[BocoDragon]

All the names are stupid in Star Wars.

I'm trying to think of a single exception......

.........

 

[Scooter155]

Probably. Obi Wan's line in Ep. IV "only a master of evil, Darth" reads like he is saying his opponent's name. The inflection isn't like he's saying a title.

I never thought of this! Ugh now I'm going to think that every time I read about a "darth" anything.

But at the same time, Obi Wan knew who Darth Vader really was, so in that logic why would he call him by his that name anyway, he should have called him Anakin.

Oh man, that would have pissed him off, can you imagine?

In-Universe Explanation - he didn't want to risk Luke overhearing and learning the truth and/or he didn't want to piss of Vader anymore and risk dying before it could be a meaningful sacrifice.

If-George-Had-It-All-Planned-Out Explanation - It would have spoiled the reveal the Vader was really Luke's father in Empire.

Real-Life Explanation - Vader wasn't originally meant to be Luke's father...

 

[LastNac]

I watched Star Wars last night. Thoughts I had:

1) The Millennium Falcon will make an appearance. It might get destroyed but I guarantee they bring it out of mothballs or something.

2) The line Solo uses at Luke about OWK? "Where'd you dig up that old fossil!?" SOMEONE in the new movie will use that line about Solo.

No fanservice please!

Thats the dumbest part right there isn't it. Micromanages the shit out of the EU with random and bizarre decisions and then just goes "ehhh" and throws it all away. I'm so glad he's finally out of the picture. As much as I hate that the new story group didn't bother to bring the gems of the EU into true canon (which I thought was their purpose), I'm glad everything going forward will be fully incorporated.

Exactly, it makes no sense to me. Also makes no sense why the couldn't have just axed off the last ten years of the EU for the setting of these new movies anyway. To throw it all out is ridiculous. I would have rather lost out on 10 years of fiction than to lose 25,000 years of it.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Luke is a common name. So is Ben.

No fanservice please!

The entire reason you have sequels and an expanded universe is thanks to "fanservice."

 

[BocoDragon]

Luke is a common name. So is Ben.

Their family names are ridiculous though. And Ben is a nickname.

 

[LastNac]

Luke is a common name. So is Ben.



The entire reason you have sequels and an expanded universe is thanks to "fanservice."

Relying on old star wars tropes is just about the worst thing this movie can do if it wants to be taken seriously. Like I said earlier, it needs to be a new episode, not a reunion.

Edit: HA, Post 1977.

 

[A_Gorilla]

To those wondering about how Sith can come back because "chosen one" and "balance to the force," remember those are prequel concepts like midichlorians, aka they're stupid and we should just pretend that we never heard them (kinda like 80% of the EU).

 

[Scooter155]

No fanservice please!

Oh come on, how about good fanservice? It can be done.

Besides, it's Star Wars, there are certain things they have to have - comedically inept droids, dogfights, lightsaber duels, "I have a bad feeling about this".

Little call backs would be OK too, for instance, it's corny as hell but I'd totally buy it if the implied "I love you", "I know" has become a playful thing that Han and Leia say to each other all the time.

Overdoing it is no good, but the fact that these sequels exist at all is fanservice, so as long as it's not pandering or overdone, I'm down with callbacks.

Exactly, it makes no sense to me. Also makes no sense why the couldn't have just axed off the last ten years of the EU for the setting of these new movies anyway. To throw it all out is ridiculous. I would have rather lost out on 10 years of fiction than to lose 25,000 years of it.

I mentioned earlier that it's possible certain elements of the EU could be kept still, they just can't announce it because it might spoil story points in the new films.

 

[Scooter155]

All the names are stupid in Star Wars.

I kind of hate how accurate this statement is. I thought to myself "What about Han Solo" then I realized, the mysterious loner is named Solo...

I like most of the first names, there's a good mix of names that sound odd, but not like they're weird for weirdness's sake - Wedge, Biggs and Han, for instance. I like the inclusion of more familiar names too to help keep it grounded - Luke, Ben, Owen, Leia.

But then you've got a fish alien who's race is Mon Calamari. Come on!

 

[LastNac]

Oh come on, how about good fanservice? It can be done. Besides, it's Star Wars, there are certain things they have to have - comedically inept droids, dogfights, lightsaber duels, "I have a bad feeling about this". Little call backs would be OK too, for instance, it's corny as hell but I'd totally buy it if the implied "I love you", "I know" has become a playful thing that Han and Leia say to each other all the time. Overdoing it is no good, but the fact that these sequels exist at all is fanservice, so as long as it's not pandering or overdone, I'm down with callbacks.

I'm not agaisnt the Falcon coming back, and honestly would be down for "I have a bad feeling about this," but beyond that we don't need to have characters running around yelling "It's a Trap", etc.

These new movies need to have more new content than recycled aspects.

 

[Scooter155]

I'm not agaisnt the Falcon coming back, and honestly would be down for "I have a bad feeling about this," but beyond that we don't need to have characters running around yelling "It's a Trap", etc.

These new movies need to have more new content than recycled aspects.

Sounds like we mostly agree, I'd probably be more forgiving of "fanservice" than you, it sounds like, but that's fine.

We agree though that there's a right way to do it and there's also a wrong way... The Star Trek movies make me nervous about whether JJ knows how to do it right...

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm not agaisnt the Falcon coming back, and honestly would be down for "I have a bad feeling about this," but beyond that we don't need to have characters running around yelling "It's a Trap", etc.

These new movies need to have more new content than recycled aspects.

There's a fine line here. I would enjoy appropriate connections to the originals...

...but don't want Abrams' Trek style pop-culture references.....

 

[brandonh83]

There's a fine line here. I would enjoy appropriate connections to the originals...

...but don't want Abrams' Trek style pop-culture references.....

To be fair, is that Abrams' doing (in Star Trek) or the writers'?

 

[Scooter155]

I just thought how awesome/horrible it would be if "I know" were Han's last words to Leia. He's headed off somewhere and as they say goodbye she says she loves him, he says he knows, and then he dies out there...

 

[Scooter155]

To be fair, is that Abrams' doing (in Star Trek) or the writers'?

I wonder the same thing! Anyone heard him talk about it in interviews or anything?

 

[BocoDragon]

To be fair, is that Abrams' doing (in Star Trek) or the writers'?

Considering how instrinsic they are to the Treks I think he at least condones it.

Those movies feel like Michael Bay flicks flavored with pop-culture Star Trek references sprinkled on top. They're rather Big Bang Theory-style in that the non-nerds who have a passing understanding might enjoy them, but to a geek it feels cringe-worthy and forced.

I will groan if there's some cheesy plays on "May the force be with you" or "Luke, I am your father" in VII.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

B) Can we talk for a second about how ridiculous Sith names are? Was "Darth Sidious" ever used as a name for Emperor Palpatine in the OT novelizations? I firmly believe that the original intent was for Darth Vader to be his full name, first name Darth, last name Vader, not that every single Sith had the title "Darth".

The EU was even worse in that regard. There's a Sith named Darth Tenebrous.

 

[brandonh83]

I will groan if there's some cheesy plays on "May the force be with you" or "Luke, I am your father" in VII.

Me too.

 

[Scooter155]

I will groan if there's some cheesy plays on "May the force be with you" or "Luke, I am your father" in VII.

Me too.

Wait, we don't want people to say "May the Force be with you" in a Star Wars movie? For real?

 

[LastNac]

There's a fine line here. I would enjoy appropriate connections to the originals...

...but don't want Abrams' Trek style pop-culture references.....

Tribbels!

To be fair, is that Abrams' doing (in Star Trek) or the writers'?

I would agree about Star Trek. Difference is that he is writing Star Wars. I'm not sure putting a fan in charge was a great idea personally.

 

[Exterminieren]

The names in Star Wars are brilliant at defining the characters, and I won't hear a word against them.

If there's a better name for a hero that starts off from humble beginnings before heading off across the stars than Luke Skywalker, then I haven't heard it. That's a character arc in name form.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

All the names are stupid in Star Wars.

You don't like Kit Fisto?

 

[BocoDragon]

Wait, we don't want people to say "May the Force be with you" in a Star Wars movie? For real?

If it's said sincerely it's fine. Not in a gag with a wink to the audience.

 

[PopeReal]

Wait, we don't want people to say "May the Force be with you" in a Star Wars movie? For real?

Some people want a Star Wars movie with no Star Wars in it.

But in this case I think he meant not turning those lines into jokes. Which I highly doubt Abrams (a huge Star Wars nerd), would do.

 

[LastNac]

I mentioned earlier that it's possible certain elements of the EU could be kept still, they just can't announce it because it might spoil story points in the new films.

It's just, as I mentioned before, it was ALL OF IT.

Even the stuff that could possibly have no bearring on the new movies.

 

[Scooter155]

The EU was even worse in that regard. There's a Sith named Darth Tenebrous.

Seriously? That doesn't even sound cool...

ten·e·brous

adjective
dark; gloomy; obscure.

It doesn't get much more on the nose than that. Might as well be Darth Mysteriuos or Darth Dark.

"My name is Phoenix. Phoenix... Dark Dirk. I was christened... Dirk Steel, but my parents changed it."

 

[brandonh83]

I'm not sure putting a fan in charge was a great idea personally.

He's a co-writer. And what, you think they would find a director that doesn't like Star Wars to direct Star Wars? I don't follow. Abrams loves Star Wars, and I guess that makes him a "fan" but wouldn't that make any director that likes Star Wars a "fan?"

 

[PopeReal]

Tribbels!


I would agree about Star Trek. Difference is that he is writing Star Wars. I'm not sure putting a fan in charge was a great idea personally.

Yeah I wouldn't want a fan to direct and co-write the movie.

Luckily Abrams is an actual director so no worries.

 

[BocoDragon]

Some people want a Star Wars movie with no Star Wars in it.

But in this case I think he meant not turning those lines into jokes. Which I highly doubt Abrams (a huge Star Wars nerd), would do.

Abrams is on the short list of people most likely to make Star Wars cultural gags since that was the basis for so much of his Trek.

But my hope rests on this: It's possible that the gravity of the project, and Disney's oversight, means that Star Wars is less likely to be "an old nerd property sexed up and dumbed down for a mass audience" than was the fate of Trek.

And sure, maybe because Abrams is more of a fan of Wars, he will make a more sincere film than he did with Trek. Star Trek 2009+Into Darkness felt like any number of big screen revivals of old nostalgic properties (ie Lost in Space, The Flinstones, Land of the Lost)... but Episode VII actually has to be a new Star Wars film.

 

[Kinyou]

But then you had something like this with the recent Maul game:

"The biggest vision shift, however, came from George Lucas himself. According to one source, Lucas took statues of Darth Maul and Darth Talon - a character from the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse - faced them toward one another, and declared, "They're friends!" When it was brought to Lucas' attention that Maul and Talon lived more than a century and a half apart from one another, Lucas reportedly suggested it could be a clone or descendant that players controlled instead of the original Maul."

The Man's involvement was all over the place. Really though, it sounds like with some of this stuff he had a fairly strong sense of dictation. Why that level of involvement doesn't canonize something, I'll never know.

Darth Maul and Darth Talon actually seem like a good fit. At least visually. But I can also imagine how frustrating it must be for the developers/designers when he had such whims