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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser

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It's a bit of both tbh. I would have preferred his scenario where he catches the lightsaber in TFA and it'd have been better for Leia and Luke to have witnessed Han's death than just two characters that knew Han for all of 20 minutes.

I like both of those things better in literally every way. So, I'm glad Hamill wasn't writing :p

And writing off Rey and Finn not having attachment to Han because they met him in this movie is bullshit. Rey and Han had very good chemistry and small scenes together where there was an obvious father/daughter type dynamic.

Mark Hamill can be wrong. :p This story is about the new characters, that's why they're directly involved in these things. You give the lightsaber moment to Luke, or the Han death moment to Leia, you may as well not even have a new protagonist.
 

-griffy-

Banned
Well shit.

Even still, I don't think he's not entirely uninvolved. I imagine he was present for early story meetings - there was likely at least a few significant sessions involving Rian, Kathy, Trevorrow, and Connolly in January when TLJ's changes had to be worked out and they decided to toss the treatment. Still though, that definitely means he didn't redo the treatment...

I don't even think they tossed out his treatment as recent as January. I think Trevorrow and Connolly have been banging their heads against the story for a long while now, and Johnson has been busy with post production on TLJ. Whatever treatment existed, we're probably talking about something over a year ago at this point. Like, a thing given to Trevorrow when he was hired. "Okay here you go Colin, start here."

People just seemed to have always brought it up every time IX was mentioned, like a weird pre-emptive hope/apologist bent. "Yeah, but Johnson is writing the treatment, so don't worry."

(Also, I'm not sure what, if anything, is actually being changed in TLJ due to Fisher's death. There's been conflicting stuff out there. Iger, and maybe Kennedy, have been out there saying they aren't changing VIII due to her death.)
 
It's a bit of both tbh. I would have preferred his scenario where he catches the lightsaber in TFA and it'd have been better for Leia and Luke to have witnessed Han's death than just two characters that knew Han for all of 20 minutes.

But alas, it is what it is.
Luke catching the lightsaber would have been beyond dumb
 
Keep in mind that Kennedy picked up Trevorrow because of Safety Not Guaranteed.. which is vastly different than JW. Doesn't even feel like the same director.

I've got hope.
The thing is, that's not exactly an unheard of shift for a promising indie director getting the reins to a $150m blockbuster. Jurassic World is, from a writing and directing standpoint, a much more likely signifier for the writing and direction we'll get here.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
If I remember correctly, he was picked up because of his work on Safety Not Guaranteed. Kathleen Kennedy loved it

I mean, it's a pretty good film but it seems weird that she'd see that and think, "Found the guy to finish off the new trilogy!".

In Kathleen Kenny I trust, though. Maybe he has some great ideas for the film, I dunno.
 
If I remember correctly, he was picked up because of his work on Safety Not Guaranteed. Kathleen Kennedy loved it
Correct. He was a back-up choice for TFA. She (and George, and I think even Spielberg) wanted JJ for TFA from day one, but he initially passed, so she went to Brad Bird, but he passed for Tomorrowland. I think Trevorrow was next up, and yes, because of Safety, but ultimately JJ decided to do it. After that her husband Frank Marshall and Spielberg were still looking for a Jurassic World director, so she showed Safety to Frank and recommended Trevorrow.
 
Why? It's his lightsaber.
So you're telling me Luke's been hiding out on Starkiller base for the last 6 years, fails to save his friend and doesn't do anything to help anyone or sabotage the base just because only to show up at the very end to undermine the main characters story arc and end the trilogy right there.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Why? It's his lightsaber.

People love to overuse Deus Ex Machina to the point where it makes no sense but Luke catching the Lightsaber in TFA would have been a clear cut case of Deus Ex Machina.

Also, it would've robbed Rey of her arc's climax if Luke did all the work.

Also also, it would rob Luke of his future confrontation with Kylo.
 

Kyoufu

Member
So you're telling me Luke's been hiding out on Starkiller base for the last 6 years, fails to save his friend and doesn't do anything to help anyone or sabotage the base just because only to show up at the very end to undermine the main characters story arc and end the trilogy right there.

Obviously the story and script would need to be altered for Luke and Leia's presence to make more sense but I think they could have used Han's closest friends in his death scene. Missed opportunity for me, but I'm not a big fan of the film in general.
 
Why would Luke be on Starkiller base?

looking for this guy

6889050e5551bb023d92508b01017f95.jpg
 
Why? It's his lightsaber.

The overall point is that Leia and Luke were underused.
Because it's entirely out of no where, robs the movie of its logical conclusion (the whole film is about going to find Luke, so naturally the ending is finding Luke), and most importantly, Rey catching the lightsaber is the single biggest development of her character arc. It's a HUGE moment and giving it to Luke is a mistake when Rey is our hero.
 
Obviously the story and script would need to be altered for Luke and Leia's presence to make more sense but I think they could have used Han's closest friends in his death scene. Missed opportunity for me, but I'm not a big fan of the film in general.
Then it's a different story.
Luke catching the lightsaber makes no sense in this story.
 
Obviously the story and script would need to be altered for Luke and Leia's presence to make more sense but I think they could have used Han's closest friends in his death scene. Missed opportunity for me, but I'm not a big fan of the film in general.
The thing is, Han's death needed to be a big moment for the film's actual heroes. Finn looked up to him, Rey saw him as a father figure. His death was a huge moment for them, especially Rey, and it needed to play that way, and not have the focus stolen by Luke and Leia. More importantly, the fact that Leia sent him off and Luke wasn't there to stop his nephew and apprentice from killing his closest friend will play big roles in their character arcs as well. They didn't need to be their for those story elements, and it's actually better for them that they weren't.

You're allowing your love for these characters and how you want to see them to overpower your sense of what actually makes for a better story.
 

Kyoufu

Member
...because she was the general leading the entire resistance operation at that point?

They could have had someone else leading the operation because I'd imagine retrieving your son who is the master of the Knights of Ren, to come back home with you would be just as important? Surely Han would have had more success with Ben's mother by his side.

Then again, the way they've written Leia is weird. Apparently she didn't tell Han anything about Ben's lust for the darkside and how Snoke was trying to seduce him all those years?? Or something along those lines.

I just don't think it made sense, but that's just me I guess.
 

Sephzilla

Member
They could have had someone else leading the operation because I'd imagine retrieving your son who is the master of the Knights of Ren, to come back home with you would be just as important? Surely Han would have had more success with Ben's mother by his side.

Then again, the way they've written Leia is weird. Apparently she didn't tell Han anything about Ben's lust for the darkside? Or something along those lines.

I just don't think it made sense, but that's just me I guess.

....huh?

There's an entire scene dedicated to Han and Leia talking about how Ben fell to the Dark Side and how "he had too much Vader in him". They both very clearly know Ben Solo has a giant darkside boner. Leia even specifically says that was the reason she let Ben train with Luke, because she thought Luke could help him.
 

Kyoufu

Member
....huh?

There's an entire scene dedicated to Han and Leia talking about how Ben fell to the Dark Side and how "he had too much Vader in him"

To be clear, I'm referring to the years where Ben was training with Luke. I read that she kept knowledge of Snoke from Han? If so, that's really, really strange.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Then again, the way they've written Leia is weird. Apparently she didn't tell Han anything about Ben's lust for the darkside and how Snoke was trying to seduce him all those years?? Or something along those lines.

I just don't think it made sense, but that's just me I guess.
wut

You need to rewatch TFA, a lot of what you think doesn't make sense is just you not remembering the movie correctly.
To be clear, I'm referring to the years where Ben was training with Luke. I read that she kept knowledge of Snoke from Han? If so, that's really, really strange.

This didn't happen either.
 
Never heard this one before. Not sure that it's true.

via Slashfilm

Frank Marshall: And that he could depend on [Colin] to sort of prep everything and then he would step in and direct and of course, that’s the kind of pie in the sky. I’m sure Kathy would have a little trouble going to Bob Iger with that.

Yes, you read that right, Brad Bird’s initial pitch was that he would finish Tomorrowland while Colin Trevorrow would act as his stand-in during production prep on Star Wars: The Force Awakens. As Frank Marshall says, the idea is a bit far fetched but it seems like it was considered for a quick minute as Kennedy really wanted Bird to direct and they didn’t believe JJ Abrams would be available.

There's where I got it confused, it wasn't actually a thing.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Here:

Han drew back slightly. “Snoke?”
She nodded. “He knew our child would be strong with the Force. That he was born with equal potential for good or evil.”
“You knew this from the beginning? Why didn’t you tell me?”
She sighed. “Many reasons.
 
Although apparently trevorrow was with rian for some of when he was shooting, and has read the script.

So if anything, at least he knows the general direction.

I dunno, Jurassic World isn't terrible, I think the climax is pretty good, I also think the insane tracking shot with the T-Rex and the I-Rex are fighting at the end is pretty damn awesome, and would be amazing for a big lightsaber battle. (Then again I'm pushing for more long-tracking shots in starwars)
 
Book adaptations of films are always wonky because they throw in a lot of details the movie doesn't, and unlike a film adaptation of a book, the movie here is the definitive version of the story.
 
The novelization of The Force Awakens wasn't a favorite of mine because of things like this tbh. Not everything can be an expertly crafted masterpiece like the Revenge of the Sith novelization.

This is reminding me that I need to pick up the prequel novelizations again. ROTS's definitely redeems the story for me.
 

Surfinn

Member
The thing is, that's not exactly an unheard of shift for a promising indie director getting the reins to a $150m blockbuster. Jurassic World is, from a writing and directing standpoint, a much more likely signifier for the writing and direction we'll get here.

Right, but I think it's also disingenuous to look at what was done with JW and think "this is how he's going to make the final movie in a SW trilogy". JW was an action romp reboot and EP9 is the final chapter in an already established trilogy, coming off probably the most conroversial SW film in history. Pretty different circumstances.

I mean, it's a pretty good film but it seems weird that she'd see that and think, "Found the guy to finish off the new trilogy!".

In Kathleen Kenny I trust, though. Maybe he has some great ideas for the film, I dunno.

Yeah I don't necessarily agree with her and was NOT impressed by the end of that film as she was.. but I would agree that it was a well directed movie.
 
A big problem with talking about whether or not directors are fit for a certain job is that people act like it's a simple thing when it really isn't. We often (myself included) argue points that aren't actually legitimate talking points. It isn't a simple matter of "well that movie he did sucks so this thing he or she does next will suck too" yet this is what the majority rolls with. It's like saying "Vertical Limit sucked, so Casino Royale will suck."

The truth is that there are so many variables that so few of us actually understand because we weren't there or part of the process, yet we argue/debate in circles around it all as if we were. Safety Not Guaranteed was a well-received film with solid writing and direction. Jurassic World was a big summer blockbuster that had been through development hell and back, and the changes we know of that Colin and Derek made to it made the story work a lot better, and they're responsible for arguably one of the most crowd pleasing climaxes in recent memory.

It doesn't really matter what you personally think of Jurassic World when it comes to whether or not Trevorrow is a worthy pick for Episode IX. It's a different studio, different working environment, different circumstance all-around. If you absolutely hated Jurassic World with every fiber of your being, cool, but it's not any indication of how Episode IX will turn out.
 
Sure, but did he make up the Marshall quote? :p

That's not the point Brandon. The point is that he took a quote that meant nothing, led nowhere, and built a couple paragraphs out of it that are mostly empty, except for the part where they're misleading, which is why we're even talking about it now, because you came away from that article thinking a thing had happened that wasn't anything more than a pie-in-the-sky scenario that wasn't even floated, much less implemented.

Peter is bad at what he does.
 
That's not the point Brandon. The point is that he took a quote that meant nothing, led nowhere, and built a couple paragraphs out of it that are mostly empty, except for the part where they're misleading, which is why we're even talking about it now, because you came away from that article thinking a thing had happened that wasn't anything more than a pie-in-the-sky scenario that wasn't even floated, much less implemented.

I'd read about it elsewhere, not just Slashfilm. That was actually just the first hit I got when I Google'd about it a bit ago to try and find where I'd heard it from. You're right though, Peter (and others) took a quote and made a thing out of it.

Pretty misleading. I was wrong about that action being in place, but they did have the idea. So at least I'm not completely nuts! :p
 

DeanBDean

Member
A big problem with talking about whether or not directors are fit for a certain job is that people act like it's a simple thing when it really isn't. We often (myself included) argue points that aren't actually legitimate talking points. It isn't a simple matter of "well that movie he did sucks so this thing he or she does next will suck too" yet this is what the majority rolls with. It's like saying "Vertical Limit sucked, so Casino Royale will suck."

The truth is that there are so many variables that so few of us actually understand because we weren't there or part of the process, yet we argue/debate in circles around it all as if we were. Safety Not Guaranteed was a well-received film with solid writing and direction. Jurassic World was a big summer blockbuster that had been through development hell and back, and the changes we know of that Colin and Derek made to it made the story work a lot better, and they're responsible for arguably one of the most crowd pleasing climaxes in recent memory.

It doesn't really matter what you personally think of Jurassic World when it comes to whether or not Trevorrow is a worthy pick for Episode IX. It's a different studio, different working environment, different circumstance all-around. If you absolutely hated Jurassic World with every fiber of your being, cool, but it's not any indication of how Episode IX will turn out.

To your point, imagine a universe where the Internet exists in 1978 and everyone hears that Irvin Kershner is the director of the sequel to arguably the most successful movie of all time, and inarguably the second most successful movie of all time. People would have lost their shit, and they would have been wrong.
 

DeanBDean

Member
Okay, sticking with the story as is, why did Leia not accompany Han in getting her son back? I never understood that.

Also, from a more practical view, Carrie Fisher was in no shape to be doing a fight scene. I'm worried if they try to have Mark Hamill do any action heavy scenes, and Carrie Fisher in my perception seemed to be in worse physical shape than Mark Hamill.
 
To your point, imagine a universe where the Internet exists in 1978 and everyone hears that Irvin Kershner is the director of the sequel to arguably the most successful movie of all time, and inarguably the second most successful movie of all time. People would have lost their shit, and they would have been wrong.

The internet essentially allows for piggybacking/bandwagoning. If you meet someone in public or, well talk to anyone and they say something like "Yeah Rey was a Mary Sue," do you think they came up with that themselves or I dunno, read it on an internet forum?
 
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