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[brandonh83]

Shame Lucas ruined the climax of the saga by adding a NOOOOOOOOOO in the last release :/

Yeah, I watched all the films in the past week and had forgotten about that and some other stupid shit in the special special extra special editions.

I don't even mind the majority of tweaks/changes whatever, but a few of 'em need to fucking burn.

 

[kevin1025]

The Asteroid Field isn't really a moment though. It's a big long setpiece.

That's true, it's a four minute sequence I believe (remembering off of the soundtrack length, haha). I took it as series highlight, not most resonant moment!

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Have we talked about Benicio Del Toro yet? He's the biggest new name in the cast and his role is still kept a mystery.

Spoiler

He's Rey's father.

 

[Sephzilla]

Shame Lucas ruined the climax of the saga by adding a NOOOOOOOOOO in the last release :/

I refuse to watch the BluRay version of ROTJ because of this

 

[Ohwiseone]

The way the scene is lit during that TFA lightsaber fight, with the focus being on the lightsabers is so good.

Like.. that whole sequence (minus the TERRIBLE cut to the starkiller battle) is done so well.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

I mean, no clue, we have no idea who snoke is or was. Maybe he was a teacher in disguise or a figure of authority like Sheev.

Would be cool if he was another instructor or Jedi at the temple who dabbled in the dark side and tried to convert Kylo, only for Leia and Luke to see what he was up to but were too late to stop him and the Knights from destroying the temple.

 

[Solo]

Yeah, I watched all the films in the past week and had forgotten about that and some other stupid shit in the special special extra special editions.

I don't even mind the majority of tweaks/changes whatever, but a few of 'em need to fucking burn.

I refuse to watch the BluRay version of ROTJ because of this

It's like Lucas had to get one last "fuck you" in before handing the reigns over to Disney.

 

[brandonh83]

Have we talked about Benicio Del Toro yet? He's the biggest new name in the cast and his role is still kept a mystery.

Spoiler

He's Rey's father.

I was sad that he wasn't at the Celebration panel (or Laura Dern) but at the same time it's hard to imagine Benicio going to such things lol

BUT W/E KELLY MARIE TRAN WAS THERE and she will probably be one of the best things about VIII.

 

[Spartancarver]

Yeah but



It was still aight

Ordered the blu ray for the express purpose of seeing that on my OLED

 

[thecouncil]

I don't get why the lightsaber struggles to move and then flies past Ren to Rey. If they're both using the force to pull in the same direction, shouldn't it start flying almost immediately? Or does Ren just really suck at using the force to move things and is not affecting the lightsaber at all ever?

 

[Sephzilla]

It's like Lucas had to get one last "fuck you" in before handing the reigns over to Disney.

I'm pretty sure adding in that NOOO to ROTJ was either Lucas giving fans a middle finger or testing the waters to see how much everyone around him was a "yes man"

Actual best moment in Star Wars

Just incredible.

I still wish the finale of the movie was the main cast trying to escape a Darth Vader who's in full on Jason Vorhees mode. But this was definitely acceptable.

Spoiler

I think I like this moment more than Rey catching the lightsaber. Seeing just how far the gap is between Vader and a normal person was something I've wanted to see for ages.

 

[kurahador]

Best moments in SW movies:
- Luke's hand get chop off by Vader which was brutal only to be followed by the revelation.
- Vader vs Luke in ROTJ. Damn I was at the edge of my seat watching it due to how emotional it was.
- Anakin burning up while writhing in anger in ROTS.

Rey's saber pulling filled me more with disappointments because at that point I realized Finn's role was basically a marketing swerve.

 

[Darth Pinche]

This is still the best for me. Seeing this at 6 years old, in 1977, on the largest screen on the West Coast was life changing for me. We had never seen anything like this before this came out.

 

[brandonh83]

I like the Rogue One scene with Vader, but for me it was the definition of a scene that's just cool because of crazy shit happening rather than it having any real substance. I'm not criticizing it at all, I like it, but it's just Vader killing people.

...which is enough for some people, I fully acknowledge lol

 

[Sephzilla]

This is still the best for me. Seeing this at 6 years old, in 1977, on the largest screen on the West Coast was life changing for me. We had never seen anything like this before this came out.

^ FUCK that's a great moment too

I like the Rogue One scene with Vader, but for me it was the definition of a scene that's just cool because of crazy shit happening rather than it having any real substance. I'm not criticizing it at all, I like it, but it's just Vader killing people.

...which is enough for some people, I fully acknowledge lol

You're pretty much right. For me, it's a cool moment because it's basically what I wanted out of Revenge of the Sith but never got

 

[Killer Queen]

I'm not understanding how you're deducing that Luke is probably a "clean cut" Jedi and is more in in line with old Jedi ways than even those in the republic. Everything we know of ESB and ROTJ stands as evidence that Luke is NOT in line with the old ways. He defies Obi-Wan. He defies Yoda. That doesn't mean he didn't learn and value their core principles and teachings, but he also largely created his own version of "Jedi". The old Jedi would have said "abandon your emotions, Vader is irredeemable". Obi/Yoda didn't even CONSIDER that Vader could be turned. They just wanted him destroyed. Luke used his emotions and feelings to restore Anakin and discard Vader. In addition, Luke dresses in all black and fucking force chokes people to death in ROTJ. Luke also uses his emotions to attempt to save his friends, when Yoda cautions that he should potentially let him die and keep them in his memory to uplift their cause and efforts. Yoda/Obi warn him not to run off but he does it anyway. As a result, he is able to save them AND the galaxy. An old Jedi would have said "ok" and probably let them die.

There are a plethora of examples in the OT that refute the idea that Luke wants anything to do with being an old Jedi. And just because he's looking for answers doesn't mean he's doing it because he wants to restore old ways.



Got it for you

Killing people is one of those things that's a "rule" but everyone does anyway because no one enforces it. Republic Jedi killed plenty, Luke doing the same isn't all that big of a deal, I would also argue that wearing black isnt that huge of a deal either, again, he's not the only one.

Maybe clean and cut wasn't the right term, but rather someone that genuinely cares about their values. Him saving Vader and him having a kid are false equivalents. Not Killing your own father is a bit higher on the list of things that you probably don't want to do even if someone tells you to.
There's also a difference between:
Kill your dad because he's a murderous genocidal dickbag
And:
Don't have a kid because this is what led your dad to become a homicidal dick bag.

Edit: at least saving your dad would be the morally correct thing to do and doesn't go against the way of the Jedi. Having a kid is foggier. And that one instance doesn't change anything else I said.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I was sad that he wasn't at the Celebration panel (or Laura Dern) but at the same time it's hard to imagine Benicio going to such things lol

BUT W/E KELLY MARIE TRAN WAS THERE and she will probably be one of the best things about VIII.

She's so adorable and I want her in every movie now.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

It's like Lucas had to get one last "fuck you" in before handing the reigns over to Disney.

Lol. I didnt even know this was a thing. I just watched the NOOOO version on youtube. Lolol

 

[brandonh83]

She's so adorable and I want her in every movie now.

When she came out I was like okay that's cool, unexpected, it's a new character, not complaining. But I was still really wanting to see Benicio or Dern. However by the end of the panel, I was super excited for her character and seeing what she was going to look like in the movie.

 

[Surfinn]

I think Yoda/X-Wing/Luke is by far the best moment because of its real life implication. It's telling the most basic but profound and resonating messages (don't underestimate people based on hallow assumptions, you can accomplish incredible things if you believe in yourself) Through simple dialogue/contextual/visual cues combined into one incredible moment.

It's incredibly powerful and relatable to literally anyone who has human emotion.

 

[Solo]

I forgot one thing I liked about Rey vs Kylo. She kinda beat him the same way Luke beat Vader.....with a hearty dose of rage.

 

[Kyoufu]

I like the Rogue One scene with Vader, but for me it was the definition of a scene that's just cool because of crazy shit happening rather than it having any real substance. I'm not criticizing it at all, I like it, but it's just Vader killing people.

...which is enough for some people, I fully acknowledge lol

It's so much more than just Vader killing people. It's about how much more powerful he is than regular people that he can massacre so many with little effort which in turn gives his character real weight as the film transitions into A New Hope. Rogue One did a fantastic job in setting the scene for the original trilogy which is basically an underdog story.

 

[brandonh83]

It's so much more than just Vader killing people. It's about how much more powerful he is than regular people that he can massacre so many with little effort which in turn gives his character real weight as the film transitions into A New Hope. Rogue One did a fantastic job in setting the scene for the original trilogy which is basically an underdog story.

Sure. Just nothing about what he did like blew my mind. I knew he was that much of a terrifying badass before all that. It was brutal yeah but again it didn't blow me away that he was able to slaughter a bunch of people with a lightsaber and the Force.

 

[Surfinn]

Killing people is one of those things that's a "rule" but everyone does anyway because no one enforces it. Republic Jedi killed plenty, Luke doing the same isn't all that big of a deal, I would also argue that wearing black isnt that huge of a deal either, again, he's not the only one.

Maybe clean and cut wasn't the right term, but rather someone that genuinely cares about their values. Him saving Vader and him having a kid are false equivalents. Not Killing your own father is a bit higher on the list of things that you probably don't want to do even if someone tells you to.
There's also a difference between:
Kill your dad because he's a murderous genocidal dickbag
And:
Don't have a kid because this is what led your dad to become a homicidal dick bag.

Edit: at least saving your dad would be the morally correct thing to do and doesn't go against the way of the Jedi. Having a kid is foggier. And that one instance doesn't change anything else I said.

I think you're missing my point. He killed someone by force choking them, something we only see dark side users do in the main films. This is not a skill that's taught by Jedi in the PT, as far as I know. This is a dark side ability. This shows us that Luke isn't totally invested in the light side only. He's using "negative" emotion to achieve his goals. Or maybe even he views those abilities as just an means to an end and they're not on the scale of "good" and "bad" for him.

What do you mean.. they are "false equivalencies"? My point is that he's already breaking the Jedi code left and right in the OT. He could have easily had a child, and even had a child that he didn't know about. Like do you really view Luke as a guy who is whipping out the Jedi handbook before he makes a decision, after watching the OT? Being in love and intentionally/unintentionally fathering a child aren't out of the question by any means.

If he didn't know about Rey, that destroys the whole "she had to be in his academy" argument.

 

[DoctorFling]

The best SW moment is when the space cow farts in Jar Jar's face

 

[PeskyToaster]

I forgot one thing I liked about Rey vs Kylo. She kinda beat him the same way Luke beat Vader.....with a hearty dose of rage.

That's balance

 

[TCRS]

the more I think about this teaser and its dark brooding tone, the more I think about how they completely fucked over the ROTJ celebration and happy end, the more I think about how lame and simply 'bigger and badder' the new evil guys are.. this new trilogy is mistake. even prequels seem better now. why did they have to mess with ROTJ. couldn't it instead have been about building the new republic`? no they had to go full edgy. never go full edgy.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

He was joking of course, but when Hamill said he read TFA's script and was thinking when the saber started to shake in the snow and flew away that it was heading to Luke....I don't care if it wouldn't work thematically or narratively as it did with Rey catching it, that would have been a cool as hell first appearance of Luke in 30 years. Instead we got him skulking around a cliff.

Uh, I fully expect Luke to be full-blown Punished Luke in VIII. He's a broken man, who realizes the Jedi are dangerous due to the risk of them going Dark. He's a man hiding from the universe 'til he dies and the Jedi order goes with him.

Don't worry, though. Rey will set him straight by the end of it.

the more I think about this teaser and its dark brooding tone, the more I think about how they completely fucked over the ROTJ celebration and happy end, the more I think about how lame and simply 'bigger and badder' the new evil guys are.. this new trilogy is mistake. even prequels seem better now. why did they have to mess with ROTJ. couldn't it instead have been about building the new republic`? no they had to go full edgy. never go full edgy.

The stupid Starkiller base aside, how are the villains bigger and badder? Snoke isn't physically as large as his projection, and the main villain, Kylo, gets his ass handed to him by an untrained Force user. Phasma, too.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

the more I think about this teaser and its dark brooding tone, the more I think about how they completely fucked over the ROTJ celebration

So you have the exact same feeling towards Empire Strikes Back then, right?

 

[Killer Queen]

I think you're missing my point. He killed someone by force choking them, something we only see dark side users do in the main films. This is not a skill that's taught by Jedi in the PT, as far as I know. This is a dark side ability. This shows us that Luke isn't totally invested in the light side only. He's using "negative" emotion to achieve his goals.

What do you mean.. they are "false equivalencies"? My point is that he's already breaking the Jedi code left and right in the OT. He could have easily had a child, and even had a child that he didn't know about.

If he didn't know about Rey, that destroys the whole "she had to be in his academy" argument.

I think you're missing my point.
By killing someone with a force choke, he broke one rule. Saving Vader wasn't breaking any rules, he went against their wishes because it was the morally correct thing to do, but even then it wasn't a gaurentee. There's no morality involved in the act of having a child which is why bringing that up as a defense makes no sense. They're two entirely different situations, so it doesn't matter and is entirely irrelevant.

There's also the fact that in the original trilogy:
-Luke wasn't well trained
-The rules were barely established. At the time it likely didn't matter to Lucas and he put it in because he thought it was cool, not because he was consiously thinking about Luke using the dark side of the force. Things like that came after in the Prequels.

In what way does that destroy the argument? He didn't know about Rey, that's exactly the point. If she was his daughter, he would have, and she would have been enrolled in the academy because she's force sensitive. Something that manifests itself at a young age. I'm not saying that Luke knows of every force sensitive child in the galaxy and that they were all at his academy. I'm saying that it makes no sense, because he would have had a powerful connection to her because she's of his bloodline and a force sensitive. And before we bring up the "Well Leia, Luke and Vader didn't know they were family in the OT!" Luke's powers have grown far stronger since then, so that's irrelevant, and Leia, in the current canon can sense the force.

Leia was aware of the influence Snoke could have on her son, but did not inform Han, believing he would not understand, and that, as a Force-sensitive, it was her responsibility to keep Ben away from the dark side

Anyway, if you're spending time studying a religion, and its commandments, you'd know the rules. You wouldn't need to "whip out a book" and even if he didn't, Obi Wan would've told him that "This is what led Vader to the dark side"

 

[GhaleonEB]

This is straight up one of my favorite shots in the entire series. Just gorgeous in composition and design, it brings both that duel and the thematic conflict in the film to its head. The music that accompanies it sells the moment so well. It also demonstrates the physicality the film had to its action. IIRC, it's the first time in the series where a duel comes down a physical brawl, which felt appropriate given the animosity between the two.

-the lightsaber duel period

These are the things I took away from the film among other things, not some baseline similarities to A New Hope.

Goddamn do I love Kylo Ren's fighting style in this.

 

[Surfinn]

the more I think about this teaser and its dark brooding tone, the more I think about how they completely fucked over the ROTJ celebration and happy end, the more I think about how lame and simply 'bigger and badder' the new evil guys are.. this new trilogy is mistake. even prequels seem better now. why did they have to mess with ROTJ. couldn't it instead have been about building the new republic`? no they had to go full edgy. never go full edgy.

Bigger and badder? Kylo Ren is far less "big and bad" than any villain in the main films. He's broken and legitimately struggling with his emotions. He's compelling and strangely relatable in TFA (his conversation with Han on the bridge), at least in certain ways.

I agree that ROTJ was left on too positive of a note, like literally everything is tied up and it leaves no conceivable room for a sequel trilogy. Those are legitimate criticisms. But I don't think they invalidate EP7-9 at all. It's just more of a rocky transition in between trilogies.

 

[Sephzilla]

So you have the exact same feeling towards Empire Strikes Back then, right?

Well, in his defense, A New Hope's ending is a bit more open than Jedi's

 

[Boem]

the more I think about this teaser and its dark brooding tone, the more I think about how they completely fucked over the ROTJ celebration and happy end, the more I think about how lame and simply 'bigger and badder' the new evil guys are.. this new trilogy is mistake. even prequels seem better now. why did they have to mess with ROTJ. couldn't it instead have been about building the new republic`? no they had to go full edgy. never go full edgy.

I will honestly never understand these reactions. The old movies are still there. They are what they are, made in a specific time and place, by specific people. Nothing can ever change that.

Like, I really don't enjoy the prequels. I think explaining how Vader became Vader is a terrible idea. His simplicity is part of how he works. But the prequels don't negatively influence my enjoyment of the originals, those movies still work for me.

Is Indiana Jones & the Last Crusade ruined because of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? Can one just not be a good movie, and the other a bad one?

And also, if all these characters should have stayed in one specific final point for eternity, why would that be good? Where's the story there? What's the point of that?

I think for many people it's simply shock to see these characters from movies they've seen a thousand times and where they recognize every line and every shot, do new stuff, in a new context. I admit, that can be a weird feeling. But why is it a bad thing for a story like that to exist? It doesn't alter the original story, if you don't like the new ones.

Edit: Beaten by a thousand people. I should know at this point that every time I want to say something like this, four people who can word it better than me will have done so before I finished typing. I should just talk about C3P0 so more I guess.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Well, in his defense, A New Hope's ending is a bit more open than Jedi's

Nah. It's "open ended" because you grew up knowing there was a part 2 on the shelf right next to it.

That movie was straight up THE END.

And then the very next movie they're hiding out in the back of a freezer living with hostile yetis.

 

[Sephzilla]

Nah. It's "open ended" because you grew up knowing there was a part 2 on the shelf right next to it.

That movie was straight up THE END.

And then the very next movie they're hiding out in the back of a freezer living with hostile yetis.

Nah, it's "open ended" because Vader escapes the Death Star alive, the Empire is never destroyed, and the Emperor who runs the entire thing isn't even on board the Death Star when it goes off. The original movie makes it pretty clear that the Empire is still a lot more than just the Death Star. If the movie was supposed to be THE END I don't think they would have left so many story threads untouched. But in general I just meant it was way more open ended in comparison to Jedi's ending, that's all.

 

[PeskyToaster]

This is straight up one of my favorite shots in the entire series. Just gorgeous in composition and design, it brings both that duel and the thematic conflict in the film to its head. The music that accompanies it sells the moment so well. It also demonstrates the physicality the film had to its action. IIRC, it's the first time in the series where a duel comes down a physical brawl, which felt appropriate given the animosity between the two.


Goddamn do I love Kylo Ren's fighting style in this.

I think the hilt complements his fighting style too. It feels and looks like he's fighting like a knight with a sword and not a jedi with a laser sword. The hits, swings, and jabs are heavy, not floaty.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Nah. It's "open ended" because you grew up knowing there was a part 2 on the shelf right next to it.

That movie was straight up THE END.

And then the very next movie they're hiding out in the back of a freezer living with hostile yetis.

Also, it's movie logic to think that simply killing the leader of an Empire would automatically end conflict forever, bringing peace to an entire galaxy in one stroke. If anything, that creates a power vacuum with factions and new contenders jockeying for the top spot.

It's easy to see how, 30 years, we have the First Order and Snoke.

 

[AndersK]

Sure. Just nothing about what he did like blew my mind. I knew he was that much of a terrifying badass before all that. It was brutal yeah but again it didn't blow me away that he was able to slaughter a bunch of people with a lightsaber and the Force.

I feel like the scene is elevated somewhat because it fits so well into Jyn's speach about them taking the next, chance, and the next, until their chances are spent. The very real depiction of the possibility that all the sacrifices made on Scarif would be undone by a bunch of mooks failing to get the package those few 100 feet to Leia's ship, due to a jammed door. Really sells the desperation of the whole operation well to me.

Edit: Also yes, all the praise throw at the duel in TFA warms my heart. That Rey force grab moment almost made me faint in the cinema. Possibly my favorite moment in all of Star Wars since watching the OT back in the day.

 

[Ohwiseone]

All this disucussion surrounding Rey and Kylo's fight in TFA makes me hope that in IX, they have another fight that is longer than 5 minutes.

 

[brandonh83]

To me, Force Awakens/the new trilogy in general is (so far) making Return of the Jedi better in some sense. I like ROTJ, but I've always felt it to be the weakest of the first trilogy. The climax is strong, but I don't quite care a whole lot for the stuff on Endor compared to the middle acts of the other films and I'm not too huge on the ending, how this huge thing ended with them clapping with the Ewoks in the Ewok village.

With the new trilogy, it takes some of the weight off Return of the Jedi. I don't look at it as the last episode anymore (well, because it isn't) but because of that, I can go along with it and accept certain things about it more. It's still an epic movie and has a terrific climax/finale worthy of being the end of Vader's story, death of the Emperor, etc. but it's no longer the actual end. So I can view it that way and not be disappointed anymore that it's the conclusion of the entire saga.

Also, when watching the originals, I can see why Kasdan and Ford wanted to originally kill off Han. To be honest, they don't do much with him past Empire and I think they did his character much better justice in VII with an actual personal and emotional connection to the new story and villain. So in hindsight these new films are making the originals better for me in some regards. I don't watch Jedi and feel disappointment over it being the last one, or feel like they needed to do more with Han because they do in the next episode.

 

[Sephzilla]

As long as we don't get some kind of revelation that The Emperor is still alive, Luke went full dark side, or that Vader came back to life and is working for the dark side again, I think ROTJ's ending hasn't been damaged.

 

[Surfinn]

I think you're missing my point.
By killing someone with a force choke, he broke one rule. Saving Vader wasn't breaking any rules, he went against their wishes because it was the morally correct thing to do, but even then it wasn't a gaurentee. There's no morality involved in the act of having a child which is why bringing that up as a defense makes no sense. They're two entirely different situations, so it doesn't matter and is entirely irrelevant.

There's also the fact that in the original trilogy:
-Luke wasn't well trained
-The rules were barely established. At the time it likely didn't matter to Lucas and he put it in because he thought it was cool, not because he was consiously thinking about Luke using the dark side of the force. Things like that came after in the Prequels.

In what way does that destroy the argument? He didn't know about Rey, that's exactly the point. If she was his daughter, he would have, and she would have been enrolled in the academy because she's force sensitive. Something that manifests itself at a young age. I'm not saying that Luke knows of every force sensitive child in the galaxy and that they were all at his academy. I'm saying that it makes no sense, because he would have had a powerful connection to her because she's of his bloodline and a force sensitive. And before we bring up the "Well Leia, Luke and Vader didn't know they were family in the OT!" Luke's powers have grown far stronger since then, so that's irrelevant, and Leia, in the current canon can sense the force.

Anyway, if you're spending time studying a religion, and its commandments, you'd know the rules. You wouldn't need to "whip out a book" and even if he didn't, Obi Wan would've told him that "This is what led Vader to the dark side"

Yoda/Obi didn't have the luxury of scolding/punishing Luke for his choices, because, as you pointed out, he was hardly trained and the fact that there was simply no time. That doesn't mean that what Luke did didn't break any Jedi code, which teaches you to abandon your attachments and not act based on an emotional drive. He defied his masters and acted on emotion in regard to the biggest decision he could have possibly made. I mean I don't think it gets any clearer than that in terms of violating the Jedi code, regardless of if Luke was aware of it or not (he probably wasn't).

Yeah, I don't think that's how the force works. Lol, those examples are "irrelevant" because you're assuming Luke is now powerful enough to have the foresight to know if he has offspring at any given time? Come on. If he didn't know she was born, he wouldn't be training her and probably would have no idea where she is. We have no reason to believe he could just "know" and instantly locate her without even knowing of her existence. If that's true, Vader would have just happily skipped down to Tatooine and scooped up Luke while he was a child/teen.

Leia can sense Han because of her incredibly strong connection to him and you know, knowing who he is and that he exists.

My book comment wasn't literal. The point is he's not stringently following the Jedi code.

 

[brandonh83]

As long as we don't get some kind of revelation that The Emperor is still alive or that Vader came back to life and is working for the dark side again, I think ROTJ's ending hasn't been damaged.

Zero percent chance of any of that, so

I think they've been somewhat candid about Snoke. Serkis said "Snoke is Snoke." I don't think they're pulling any kind of cloning or anything of that sort out of their asses. It doesn't mean that Snoke won't have some connection or relationship with something or someone already established, but they're not going to resurrect Anakin or have Palpatine clones or some stupid bullshit.

 

[RSTEIN]

It's so much more than just Vader killing people. It's about how much more powerful he is than regular people that he can massacre so many with little effort which in turn gives his character real weight as the film transitions into A New Hope. Rogue One did a fantastic job in setting the scene for the original trilogy which is basically an underdog story.

If you want to really get a sense of how powerful Vader is you should read Lords of the Sith. It's set after ROTS. The stuff he does in that book makes his Rogue One hallway scene look pretty tame, lol.

You also get a sense of how powerful the Emperor is compared to Vader.

 

[Sephzilla]

Zero percent chance of any of that, so

I think they've been somewhat candid about Snoke. Serkis said "Snoke is Snoke." I don't think they're pulling any kind of cloning or anything of that sort out of their asses. It doesn't mean that Snoke won't have some connection or relationship with something or someone already established, but they're not going to resurrect Anakin or have Palpatine clones or some stupid bullshit.

There's probably a note on some writers wall at LucasArts that says "don't go full EU" lol

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If the movie was supposed to be THE END I don't think they would have left so many story threads untouched.

But they didn't.

They made up new story threads for Empire. They didn't leave a whole bunch "untouched."

Just like they did for Episode 7.

The difference between that and this is that like, three generations have since grown up never having known a time in which there wasn't always at least three Star Wars movies within easy reach, so it doesn't even really occur to a lot of people that Empire wasn't thoroughly undoing pretty much every aspect of the happy ending from Star Wars.

So looking at The Force Awakens and going "Oh, it ruins Return of the Jedi! It's like it was all for nothing!" doesn't really make any sense if you don't apply that same criticism to Empire.

(also, the notion that bad things happening after good things happening completely negates the good things and their good effects is... weird)

 

[thecouncil]

Didn't the Jedi end before Luke even showed up? What even is a Jedi at the point of A New Hope? Just a name. There's no council, trials, padawans, masters. It's all dead.

 

[Sephzilla]

But they didn't.

They made up new story threads for Empire. They didn't leave a whole bunch "untouched."

Just like they did for Episode 7.

The difference between that and this is that like, three generations have since grown up never having known a time in which there wasn't always at least three Star Wars movies within easy reach, so it doesn't even really occur to a lot of people that Empire wasn't thoroughly undoing pretty much every aspect of the happy ending from Star Wars.

So looking at The Force Awakens and going "Oh, it ruins Return of the Jedi! It's like it was all for nothing!" doesn't really make any sense if you don't apply that same criticism to Empire.

(also, the notion that bad things happening after good things happening completely negates the good things and their good effects is... weird)

Vader and the Empire still being around weren't new story threads for Empire Strikes Back though

(i dont even know why we're debating this since we both agree that the new trilogy doesn't damage ROTJ's ending at all)

 

[Surfinn]

But they didn't.

They made up new story threads for Empire. They didn't leave a whole bunch "untouched."

Just like they did for Episode 7.

The difference between that and this is that like, three generations have since grown up never having known a time in which there wasn't always at least three Star Wars movies within easy reach, so it doesn't even really occur to a lot of people that Empire wasn't thoroughly undoing pretty much every aspect of the happy ending from Star Wars.

So looking at The Force Awakens and going "Oh, it ruins Return of the Jedi! It's like it was all for nothing!" doesn't really make any sense if you don't apply that same criticism to Empire.

(also, the notion that bad things happening after good things happening completely negates the good things and their good effects is... weird)

Star Wars ends on a pretty wrapped up note, but Vader is still alive. There was some inclination that the saga could continue, if they wanted to do it. ROTJ has no inclinations. Luke saves the day, frees Anakin from the shackles of Vader, the Emperor is dead, the death star went boom.

I mean, I'm not saying there couldn't have been folks left who wanted to do the empire's evil bidding, but the story was closed. The saga was complete.

Again, I'm not saying that means EP7-9 are invalidated (they're not), it just would have been nice to have been thrown the Vader bone that we were given in ANH, in ROTJ.

The transition was far rockier because of it, but I'm glad we have the films that we do now. And they make sense, which is all that matters.