Support NeoGAF

[Onaco]

My girlfriend, friend and I went to dinner last night in Illinois. My friend and I are from Wisconsin, and our vertical state driver's licenses go through the age of 21, but the licenses are still valid for years after turning 21. It even explicitly says "Under 21 until MM/DD/YYYY". As it turns out, Illinois has a law in place that allows restaurants to deny people based on the orientation of your state ID.

In this case, they only allowed horizontal IDs, which are given to people over the age of 21 in Illinois. So regardless of the fact that we are of legal age, we were denied service just because of the shape of our state IDs. Now I'm throwing $14.25 at Wisconsin to send a new driver's license for me for future trips to see my girlfriend. This is the most ridiculous policy I have ever heard of. I hardly drink alcohol, but I'll exercise my right if I am allowed to every so often.

How the hell is the orientation of a state ID going to stop someone from purchasing alcohol underage?

Has anyone else been denied in a different state because of this stupid policy?

 

[Kas]

I know I cant go in into the casinos in CT with a vertical license, even if I am 21.

 

[Hip Hop]

Yeah, Arizona has the same thing. Well, happened to me when buying alcohol at a gas station.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

There are some bars in MA that (illegally I imagine) won't even take out of state IDs.

 

[Onaco]

There are some bars in MA that (illegally I imagine) won't even take out of state IDs.

I don't think that's necessarily illegal, but it is stupid. As a business, you would want more sales. Denying customers, regardless of the product, seems to be counteractive of your purpose as a business. But I'm speaking from the safe idea that everyone they are denying are of legal age and are not using fake IDs.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

In Virginia, I've gotten this a few times. Mostly from small places like breweries or whatever that probably feel like it's not worth the risk? I dunno. But, for me, every turn they just say "In the future, this will be a problem. For now I'll let it slide." And. I get my drinks anyway.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I don't think that's necessarily illegal, but it is stupid. As a business, you would want more sales. Denying customers, regardless of the product, seems to be counteractive of your purpose as a business. But I'm speaking from the safe idea that everyone they are denying are of legal age and are not using fake IDs.

The penalties for serving a minor using a fake ID are much higher than the potential revenue they might generate.

 

[_Ryo_]

In VA, this hasn't happened to me at all. I don't even have a drivers license, (28 without a DL, RIP me) so I'd be fucked if this were a rule here, or if it was enforced.

Edit: I just got a new ID a few months ago, hadn't had a new one since I was 18. I've JUST NOW noticed it was horizontal. I guess I'm good. LOL.


I still have my old ID even. It's vertical. They didn't take it or tell me to throw it away or to cut it up or anything either so I just kept it, for some reason.

 

[Chuckl3s]

Yeah, Arizona has the same thing. Well, happened to me when buying alcohol at a gas station.

In Arizona, you have up to 30 days of your 21st birthday to get it replaced. If not, its invalid and we can't accept it at a bar.

 

[Eusis]

There are some bars in MA that (illegally I imagine) won't even take out of state IDs.

Which leads me to think this is just a bit of laziness or excessive caution on the parts of these places. I need to see if it's REALLY the law, but that's just supposed to show you were a minor when you got the license, so it's a corruption of visual shorthand that went from "pay attention to the age and date" to "no don't serve them at all."

Although even if it's not the business deciding this and it IS the law I'd say the legislators are just as guilty of being stupid there.

EDIT: And the above proves the second point.

 

[Onaco]

The penalties for serving a minor using a fake ID are much higher than the potential revenue they might generate.

I understand that, too. That's why I put a small disclaimer in my post.

 

[GhostBed]

Not the case in Indiana, I know a ton of people who somehow still got vertical ID's after turning 21 and they go out and buy booze and what not all the time. Really stupid that it hinders people in other states.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

In North Carolina, they have the same id scheme (vertical for "provisional" licenses given to people under 21, horizontal past 21).

The difference is that vertical license expires the day you turn 21 and you HAVE to go back to the DMV (and complete a super basic visual sign test) to get your full horizontal license.

 

[MrChom]

It still astounds me the drinking age in the US is 21...

I mean depending on what you want to do in the UK you can have alcohol in private from the age of 5 (and can be in bars as long as they're supervised), 16-17 you can have beer, wine, or cider with meals in public, and 18 onwards you're grand.

Then again when the standard question to a potentially underage drinker isn't "ID?" but "When were you born?" I suppose it's not that hard to fiddle our system either

 

[Ashby]

There are some bars in MA that (illegally I imagine) won't even take out of state IDs.

Yeah I went to school in NY state and there was a liquor store that wouldn't sell to anybody with a PA license, I guess those are easier to make fakes out of or at least were at the time.

 

[clockworkinyou]

The penalties for serving a minor using a fake ID are much higher than the potential revenue they might generate.

I'm surprised more people don't realize this. Establishments that refuse ID for whatever reason are doing it within their ability to do so. Sure, the person working there could hide some other reason behind a 'doubtful ID' statement, but that's just how things are.

 

[Matty77]

There are some bars in MA that (illegally I imagine) won't even take out of state IDs.

As someone who doesn't drive it used to piss me off a lot of places in Worcester county, especially packies wouldn't take a state ID because it says not a license on it. Mind you it comes from the registry and is the exact same except it does not allow you to drive. Don't know if they still do that I hardly drink and am long past needing an ID but that used to actually really make me mad.

 

[gaiages]

I had a vertical FL license for years before I lost it (it didn't expire until 2017 even though I was over 21), and I never had a problem. But, I only used it in FL, if I was out of state (which only happened, like... twice), I didn't bother, just in case there would be a problem.

I do agree that places should look at the numbers on the license though, instead of just what orientation it is

 

[ZOONAMI]

My girlfriend, friend and I went to dinner last night in Illinois. My friend and I are from Wisconsin, and our vertical state driver's licenses go through the age of 21, but the licenses are still valid for years after turning 21. It even explicitly says "Under 21 until MM/DD/YYYY". As it turns out, Illinois has a law in place that allows restaurants to deny people based on the orientation of your state ID.

In this case, they only allowed horizontal IDs, which are given to people over the age of 21 in Illinois. So regardless of the fact that we are of legal age, we were denied service just because of the shape of our state IDs. Now I'm throwing $14.25 at Wisconsin to send a new driver's license for me for future trips to see my girlfriend. This is the most ridiculous policy I have ever heard of. I hardly drink alcohol, but I'll exercise my right if I am allowed to every so often.

How the hell is the orientation of a state ID going to stop someone from purchasing alcohol underage?

Has anyone else been denied in a different state because of this stupid policy?

You don't have to get a new id when you turn 21? In MN we do. WI should probably change their policy to make the bit about it saying under 21 until x date less confusing. Yes, the date should be enough, but in a busy bar things get hectic and people aren't thinking about the date and see under 21 anywhere on an id they are just not gonna serve you to be safe. Serving someone underage is a huge fine for the establishment and for the server/bartender personally if it's a sting operation going down.

I find it hard to believe IL would not serve people from neighboring WI as a matter of state law, most likely this is just a single establishment being overly cautious.

Was just in Chicago last weekend, no problems with MN id.

 

[otapnam]

Why don't they just send you a letter for replacement and charge you x amount for a new license upon birthday?

Too old to have had to deal with this vertical nonsense. Sucks for you youngins

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Why would there be laws on the books speaking towards orientation? That is completely idiotic. If you're showing proof of age with a valid ID, it should be accepted and any business refusing should be cited. You're basically being denied your right to buy age-restricted items at that point.

Makes no sense.

 

[Onaco]

I had a vertical FL license for years before I lost it (it didn't expire until 2017 even though I was over 21), and I never had a problem. But, I only used it in FL, if I was out of state (which only happened, like... twice), I didn't bother, just in case there would be a problem.

I do agree that places should look at the numbers on the license though, instead of just what orientation it is

If they're so bent on the orientation, wouldn't it be easier to fake an ID just by having it horizontal? Wouldn't I be able to flash the ID and expect them to not see a date if it's just horizontal?

 

[Onaco]

You don't have to get a new id when you turn 21? In MN we do. WI should probably change their policy to make the bit about it saying under 21 until x date less confusing. Yes, the date should be enough, but in a busy bar things get hectic and people aren't thinking about the date and see under 21 anywhere on an id they are just not gonna serve you to be safe. Serving someone underage is a huge fine for the establishment and for the server/bartender personally if it's a sting operation going down.

I find it hard to believe IL would not serve people from neighboring WI as a matter of state law, most likely this is just a single establishment being overly cautious.

Was just in Chicago last weekend, no problems with MN id.

No, it's an Illinois state law that allows you to make policies to deny IDs. This was a policy made by the company, according to the waitress, but is exercised in a lot of places. The exception is if it was your 21st birthday only.

 

[Feel the Swift]

It's silly when you can clearly read the birthdate and you are over 21. But I always thought that establishments denied vertical IDs because someone who just turned 21 could easily just give their ID to a minor instead of giving it to the DMV when they replace it.

 

[Jeffrey]

im in GA and I turned 18 in 2008, my license expires in 2018, and ive been using it to buy alcohol or w/e just fine.

 

[DOWN]

That's pathetic. It's probably so people too stupid to read the date don't accidentally pass through under 21 year olds by misreading.

I just recently got mine switched to horizontal and I'm 23. Never had a problem with it in florida or Nevada

 

[bigkrev]

Granted I turned 21 in 2009, but I had no issues in NJ, PA, MD or VA with my license still being verticals then.

That said, I'm now (in my late 20s) having issues because I've lost 100 lbs and i was super tan as a lifeguard back when the picture was taken on my license, and now look nothing like the picture. I'm good for another year and don't want to pay for a new license!

 

[Mammoth Jones]

The fuck. I never heard of there being an orientation discrepancy in licenses before.

My NYS permit was horizontal when I was underage. It's still horizontal now.

 

[Onaco]

Granted I turned 21 in 2009, but I had no issues in NJ, PA, MD or VA with my license still being verticals then.

That said, I'm now (in my late 20s) having issues because I've lost 100 lbs and i was super tan as a lifeguard back when the picture was taken on my license, and now look nothing like the picture. I'm good for another year and don't want to pay for a new license!

You should wear a pasta strainer when you get your license taken.

 

[ZOONAMI]

No, it's an Illinois state law that allows you to make policies to deny IDs. This was a policy made by the company, according to the waitress, but is exercised in a lot of places. The exception is if it was your 21st birthday only.

Ic, yep then just a poor decision by the company considering how close wi is.

 

[kirblar]

The fuck. I never heard of there being an orientation discrepancy in licenses before.

My NYS permit was horizontal when I was underage. It's still horizontal now.

Lots of states do it to make it obvious they're learner's permits or the user's under 21.

 

[xJavonta]

It's always been like this in Illinois. Although, my friend just turned 21 and she usually can get into bars by just being nice to the dude at the door. As long as you're not an asshole you're typically okay

Unless you're buying from a liquor store or supermarket. They're strict on it.

 

[Onaco]

Just to add more to the story: my friend had just gotten back from studying abroad in Japan last week. He offered to show his Japanese ID, which was horizontal, when we were denied the sale. They wouldn't allow non-US IDs either (obviously). Now, we didn't expect it to work, but seriously? That's two forms of *Technically Legal* ID and still no alcohol. Both say his date of birth.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

ITT I learned that there are vertical IDs. What a world.

 

[jstripes]

So where do you go to fix that? The DMV, RMV, DPS, MVA, or XQZ?

 

[Megabyte117]

In Arizona, you have up to 30 days of your 21st birthday to get it replaced. If not, its invalid and we can't accept it at a bar.

I heard recently at a bar that that only applies to in-state IDs, and that they'll take vertical ones if they're out-of-state (in Arizona).

 

[pwack]

I'm gonna say that is not the Illinois law (having read through the most relevant sections of the Illinois Code and not seeing anything there). There is zero reason you should trust a restaurant owner or a waitress to tell you what the law is.

That said, a restaurant doesn't have to serve you if they don't want to. For whatever reason.

 

[Onaco]

So where do you go to fix that? The DMV, RMV, DPS, MVA, or XQZ?

Submitted an online form that allowed me to get a license sent to my address. You can go to a DMV, RMV, DPS, FPS, MVA, ZQX, XQZ, ABXY, or Triangle Circle X Square, I guess.

 

[Apathy]

You guys think we're weird with bagged milk, but verticle id cards are just strange

 

[xJavonta]

Just to add more to the story: my friend had just gotten back from studying abroad in Japan last week. He offered to show his Japanese ID, which was horizontal, when we were denied the sale. They wouldn't allow non-US IDs either (obviously). Now, we didn't expect it to work, but seriously? That's two forms of *Technically Legal* ID and still no alcohol. Both say his date of birth.

Yeah this happened to my roommate. He's from Iceland and a bar we frequented often refused to accept his Iceland ID even though it has his DOB on it. They required a passport which is fucking ridiculous.

The same thing happened at UNOs. His parents flew in from Iceland and took us out to dinner. But even though they are CLEARLY over 21 they refused to serve them alcohol because they didn't bring their passports, just their IDs.

I wish companies would train their employees on how to tell legit IDs from fakes instead of denying everything. If we hadn't waited 40 fucking minutes to be seated we would've left and gone to Lou Malnati's.

You guys think we're weird with bagged milk, but verticle id cards are just strange

Vertical IDs are ugly

Just like bagged milk

 

[kirby_fox]

Some states are really strict on this kind of thing. I visited my cousin in New York, and he was buying beer. They had to check everyone's ID who was there with us to make sure no underage drinking was happening.

Which is the dumbest thing because if you're underage, you would simply walk outside and not go through the line with the person buying alcohol...

 

[water_wendi]

They are erring on the side of caution it sounds like. Vertical IDs for minors are present where i live as well.

 

[Suite Pee]

I didn't get my horizontal ID until I turned 27 (WI), so that's pretty stupid.

Edit: As a bartender, I'm just gonna check a few things to make sure it seems legit. The act of checking itself is a sign that I made a decent enough effort to cover my establishment's liability.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Yeah this happened to my roommate. He's from Iceland and a bar we frequented often refused to accept his Iceland ID even though it has his DOB on it. They required a passport which is fucking ridiculous.

The same thing happened at UNOs. His parents flew in from Iceland and took us out to dinner. But even though they are CLEARLY over 21 they refused to serve them alcohol because they didn't bring their passports, just their IDs.

I wish companies would train their employees on how to tell legit IDs from fakes instead of denying everything. If we hadn't waited 40 fucking minutes to be seated we would've left and gone to Lou Malnati's.


Vertical IDs are ugly

Just like bagged milk

Most bouncers, bartenders, servers are going to be familiar with their respective state ID and a few of the more common out of state IDs. Asking them to be familiar with all international IDs is ludicrous.

I always tell my traveling friends to bring their passports everywhere, because the bars here don't play.

 

[Onaco]

Some states are really strict on this kind of thing. I visited my cousin in New York, and he was buying beer. They had to check everyone's ID who was there with us to make sure no underage drinking was happening.

Which is the dumbest thing because if you're underage, you would simply walk outside and not go through the line with the person buying alcohol...

Walmart had that policy when I worked there. Everyone knows how to counter it: just make your friend get in line and get the fuck away from the register if you aren't 21. I worked in a college town, so it obviously happened.

The training videos at Walmart say you're supposed to know if a customer passes cash to their friend to buy alcohol for them... like... seriously? Nobody is going to do that in a checkout line, and employees don't really leave the checkout area. If they pass the cash before entering the store or while in the other parts of the store, we're supposed to know that? Okay.

 

[Ashby]

Some states are really strict on this kind of thing. I visited my cousin in New York, and he was buying beer. They had to check everyone's ID who was there with us to make sure no underage drinking was happening.

Which is the dumbest thing because if you're underage, you would simply walk outside and not go through the line with the person buying alcohol...

I'm surprised to learn some states don't do this. I always made a joke of leaving my 20 year old girlfriend in the car when I would go to get alcohol like, "This is grown stuff. I'll be back in a minute."

 

[Apathy]

Walmart had that policy when I worked there. Everyone knows how to counter it: just make your friend get in line and get the fuck away from the register if you aren't 21. I worked in a college town, so it obviously happened.

The training videos at Walmart say you're supposed to know if a customer passes cash to their friend to buy alcohol for them... like... seriously? Nobody is going to do that in a checkout line, and employees don't really leave the checkout area. If they pass the cash before entering the store or while in the other parts of the store, we're supposed to know that? Okay.

Reminds me of going to Vegas, my friends and I were buying booze, the Lady at the register wanted to see all our IDs. So odd.

 

[Megalosaro]

Vertical ids? What

 

[dc3k]

I live in California and use my Ontario drivers license for everything. Never had a problem in the year I've been here. Gf used her Minnesota license at a gas station once and they asked her if she had a "valid ID". Wtf.

 

[Rival]

Sometimes in Illinois we like to be unreasonable for no reason at all. Especially towards people from Wisconsin! Consider yourself lucky you didn't get some kind of traffic citation as well or have your car towed. It's your punishment for hoarding all of the spotted cow.

Illinois has stupid rules.