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[Elcid]

I don't know who or why anyone enjoys forced stealth sections in games.
This is coming from the guy who killed every single enemy in every MGS game that could be killed.
In MGS3 I would simply keep killing until eventually helicopters stopped coming.
Assassins Creed 2, after you escape the first attempt on the Borgia, on the bridge leaving the cathedral, the entire bridge was covered in corpses before I finally got away.
I basically kill until people stop spotting me in Assassins Creed.
MGS4 I killed about 200 guys in the first level.
I suck at stealth. I legitimately suck at it. I'm not patient, and when I try to be patient, I get caught.
Why the hell does EVERY game require this shit? Assassins Creed. Spider-Man (WHY!). Final Fantasy XV (WHY?!). Resident Evil 7 (Ok I get this one...). Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted, Batman games, etc. etc. I get them in the context of the story, be all sneaky sneaky and don't get caught, but come on, they should all be skippable or solvable by killing/disarming/KOing everyone.
None were more upsetting than Spider-Man though, that was just obnoxious. I have to watch Spider-Man webbing people up while I'm stuck running around as Mary Jane where if I'm caught I fail immediately? That was just a shit idea and whoever conceived that idea should feel bad about themselves.

That's got to be the most upsetting part about all these damn mandated stealth sections, not only are you usually unable to attack, you INSTANTLY fail if you get seen. How is this fun? How is this a fun user experience?
Look, if you're going to mandate stealth, at least handle it like MGS where if I fail, I can just shoot my way out of it, because fuck stealth, that's why.

There's my rant, provoked by FFXV's stealth section in chapter 6.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Stealth is fun when you can use it to do fun things. It's not fun when it is used merely to avoid punishment in the game.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

I'm the total opposite. I HATE it when there are forced action sequences in stealth games.

 

[Whitesnake]

Stealth games have a kind of tension that doesn't really exist in other types of games.
It requires to observe how your enemy behaves normally and how they react to stimuli that you introduce.
You then use this information along with your encironment to outsmart the enemy and take them down quickly and quietly.

Sure some games can do it poorly. But the fact that there is an entire genre based around it indicates that it's something people enjoy.

If you want a game where you run around shooting everyone, maybe you would prefer Uncharted or Far Cry rather than MGS or Assassin's Creed.

When you talk about skipping stealth sections you sound just like the people who want an easy mode in FromSoft games. If you can't be bothered to learn the basic mechanics of just one section of a game, that's on you.

 

[Yumi]

I dont get as mad at it, more like a sigh I just have to get through this to actually get back to the game. It always feels half assed and when the controls arent built for it its super aggravating. Same with, "follow this person but dont get to close or you fail!"

Funny FF15 story, my ps4 controllers roght trigger was malfinctioning unbeknownst to me at the time, and I had to follow Ardyn to the meteor in the car. But if he gets to far away from you you "lose" him and have to start ober again. Like WTF. Cant I just meet him there. And tried it 3 times wondering why my car wasnt fast enough until I realized my right trogger wasnt inputing properly so the regalia wasnt going full speed.

 

[brian0057]

Stealth is my favorite gaming genre. Hell, my profile picture is of my favorite game of all time, the stealth masterpiece that is Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory.
The subterfuge, the tension of avoiding capture, and the dread of knowing that you're as vulnerable as a puppy if you're discovered (at least in good stealth games).
If you play a stealth game the right way, you feel like a God, with command of who lives and who dies within the level. You can be inches away from an enemy with the knowledge of how ease it would be to take him out but choosing not to. It's a specific power fantasy that few genres can deliver.

Stealth sections in non-stealth games lack any of the above since they don't give the player the option of tackling the segment in any way they see fit.
The best stealth games on the market (read: anything not made by Hideo Kojima) give the player a limited set of tools, are vulnerable as hell, and provide a playground in which the player can choose to do whatever he or she pleases in the order they choose using whatever means they like.

Thief II, for example, is quite possibly the single best stealth game ever made. It has gigantic maps with thousands of possible paths to take, multiple locations with interesting things to check out, notes and guard conversations that deepen the lore of the game, and all is done with nary a cutscene/QTE/pre-rendered pablum in sight. All is done in engine and within gameplay by the player.

When you combine this type of gameplay with the horror genre you get moments of brilliance like The Shalebridge Cradle from Thief: Deadly Shadows, the entirety of Alien: Isolation, or the begining of the Panchea level in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

 

[Elcid]

Stealth games have a kind of tension that doesn't really exist in other types of games.
It requires to observe how your enemy behaves normally and how they react to stimuli that you introduce.
You then use this information along with your encironment to outsmart the enemy and take them down quickly and quietly.

Sure some games can do it poorly. But the fact that there is an entire genre based around it indicates that it's something people enjoy.

If you want a game where you run around shooting everyone, maybe you would prefer Uncharted or Far Cry rather than MGS or Assassin's Creed.

When you talk about skipping stealth sections you sound just like the people who want an easy mode in FromSoft games. If you can't be bothered to learn the basic mechanics of just one section of a game, that's on you.

I just want to be able to shoot my way out. I always clear them, but they're just obnoxious and ruin the experience imo.

I dont get as mad at it, more like a sigh I just have to get through this to actually get back to the game. It always feels half assed and when the controls arent built for it its super aggravating. Same with, "follow this person but dont get to close or you fail!"

Funny FF15 story, my ps4 controllers roght trigger was malfinctioning unbeknownst to me at the time, and I had to follow Ardyn to the meteor in the car. But if he gets to far away from you you "lose" him and have to start ober again. Like WTF. Cant I just meet him there. And tried it 3 times wondering why my car wasnt fast enough until I realized my right trogger wasnt inputing properly so the regalia wasnt going full speed.

Wow I remember that. I agree, I hate those things as much as stealth, because I'm being forced to walk either slow as shit, or to be chasing a NPC.

Stealth is my favorite gaming genre. Hell, my profile picture is of my favorite game of all time.
The subterfuge, the tension of avoiding capture, and the dread of knowing that you're as vulnerable as puppy if you're discovered (at least in good stealth games).
If you play a stealth game the right way, you feel like a God, with command of who live and who dies withing the level. You can be inches away from an enemy with the knowledge of how ease it would be to take him out but choosing not to. It's a specific power fantasy that few genres can deliver.

Stealth sections in non-stealth games lack any of the above since they don't give the player the option of tackling the segment in any way they see fit.
The best stealth games on the market (read: anything not made by Hideo Kojima) give the player a limited set of tools, are vulnerable as hell, and provide a playground in which the player can choose to do whatever he or she pleases in the order they choose using whatever means they like.

Thief II, for example, is quite possibly the single best stealth game ever made. It has gigantic maps with thousands of possible paths to take, multiple locations with interesting things to check out, notes and guard conversations that deepen the lore of the game, and all is done with nary a cutscene/QTE/pre-rendered pablum in sight. All is done in engine and withing gameplay by the player.

When you combine this type of gameplay with the horror genre you get moments of brilliance like The Shalebridge Cradle from Thief: Deadly Shadows, the entirety of Alien: Isolation, or the begining of the Panchea level in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

I own Deus Ex and haven't touched it because I understand stealth is a big component of it, so I've passed so far. I'm glad it's a genre for the people like you, that love that shit, but I just can't get into it!

 

[Spukc]

Fuck stealth its a broken mechanic that wont die.

 

[brian0057]

I own Deus Ex and haven't touched it because I understand stealth is a big component of it, so I've passed so far. I'm glad it's a genre for the people like you, that love that shit, but I just can't get into it!

Oh, man. You really should play Deus Ex: Human Revolution. It's superb.
If you don't like the stealth aspect of the game, you can always shoot your way through since the game is more of an RPG than a pure stealth game.
Mankind Divided handles this a lot better, making a combat heavy playthrough just as rewarding as a pacifist stealth one.

 

[Mista]

Stealth is fun when the mechanic itself is solid a.k.a MGS. But when a game that has nothing to do with stealth yet you’re forcing it on players? Nah, this bollocks must end.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Problem with stealth isn't the stealth itself. It's the retarded AI.

1. Player gets noticed by enemies

2. Enemies charge in

3. Player runs away and hides

4. Enemies suddenly pretend nothing happened

If the premise of a game is heavy on stealth, than the AI should be all about chasing too. If you get caught, you should be getting chased non-stop for the rest of the level or until you kill every enemy chasing you

 

[Spukc]

Problem with stealth isn't the stealth itself. It's the retarded AI.

1. Player gets noticed by enemies

2. Enemies charge in

3. Player runs away and hides

4. Enemies suddenly pretend nothing happened

If the premise of a game is heavy on stealth, than the AI should be all about chasing too. If you get caught, you should be getting chased non-stop for the rest of the level or until you kill every enemy chasing you

T H A N K
Y
O
U

 

[Kanojo23]

I'm bad with stealth games but I enjoy little things about it. It's like I'm doing hide and seek with my friends except in video game.

 

[Bakkus]

Problem with stealth isn't the stealth itself. It's the retarded AI.

1. Player gets noticed by enemies

2. Enemies charge in

3. Player runs away and hides

4. Enemies suddenly pretend nothing happened

If the premise of a game is heavy on stealth, than the AI should be all about chasing too. If you get caught, you should be getting chased non-stop for the rest of the level or until you kill every enemy chasing you

I'm glad you're not a video game designer. This would be torture, and a good advicate for why realism and video games do not go hand in hand.

 

[SlashBringingHasher]

I do the same thing

but gameplay wise. MGS is a shit franchise. maybe the last couple of games were good. but dear the fucking lord. MGS 1-3 and all of the old ones are downright unplayable because of how bad the controls are. how damage works. and everthing

the only two games to ever get stealth right that i played are deus ex HR and dishonored.

 

[3March]

Problem with stealth isn't the stealth itself. It's the retarded AI.

1. Player gets noticed by enemies

2. Enemies charge in

3. Player runs away and hides

4. Enemies suddenly pretend nothing happened

If the premise of a game is heavy on stealth, than the AI should be all about chasing too. If you get caught, you should be getting chased non-stop for the rest of the level or until you kill every enemy chasing you

*COUGH* Sekiro *COUGH*

 

[Tupinambis_WOT]

Every elder scrolls game I've played I've always been either an Argonian or a Khajit with a stealth/assassin/thief loadout. The best fun I've ever had with these games have been robbing people at night while they're asleep and clearning out entire dungeons without any enemies ever seeing me. Stealth can be great; even when it gets idiotically easy.

 

[Nymphae]

Stealth is fun when you can use it to do fun things

For an example of how to do this correctly and incorrectly in the same game, see Spiderman for PS4. Spiderman stealth sections are pretty fun because you're utilizing Spidey's powers to take everyone out silently. You feel like a badass, and if shit goes wrong, you just start kicking everyone's ass.

The Mary Jane stealth sections are insultingly bad and literally feel like baby's first stealth experience. If you mess up, a bad guy cocks a gun in your face, fade to black and you restart. For the first few you are just moving behind boxes and waiting for the one guard who is blocking your path to look the other way. Then they mix it up by having the guards not look away, so you have to knock over toolboxes to get them to move. This is about as fun as reading my description of it is. There are several sections like this before you eventually get a taser or something and can take out one guard, but the pace and direction of the segments is essentially exactly like the others. It was all just so horribly unfun, particularly compared to the much better titular character stealth segments, I really have no idea how that got through any sort of playtesting.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Some of the worst opinions I've ever read exist in this thread

Imagine thinking this when MGS, Splinter Cell, Dishonored, Deus Ex, and other great stealth franchises exist. I'm not gonna even bother explaining why stealth games are essential for a gamer to experience.

 

[wzy]

Stealth games are awesome. It's FFXV that sucks.

 

[Yumi]

Problem with stealth isn't the stealth itself. It's the retarded AI.

1. Player gets noticed by enemies

2. Enemies charge in

3. Player runs away and hides

4. Enemies suddenly pretend nothing happened

If the premise of a game is heavy on stealth, than the AI should be all about chasing too. If you get caught, you should be getting chased non-stop for the rest of the level or until you kill every enemy chasing you

I think that is the challenge of making a stealth game or stealth sections. This gets brought up in Sekiro a lot. Theres a certain point where the developer has to decide when the gamer isnt having fun and will just reset the game or checkpoint. Generally that probably seems like a flaw that they would try to avoid.

I agree better, more interesting ai would help with this. But if stealth is what makes the game fun, and your stuck in a red alert mode and can no longer use stealth, sometimes just restarting seems like the best option.

It would be cool if a game came out where it looked like the enemies went back normally but actually set up a trap assuming the player would come back.

 

[kiiltz]

If you get caught, you should be getting chased non-stop for the rest of the level or until you kill every enemy chasing you.

That's just as stupid, just on the other side of the spectrum. There's no reason for an enemy to chase you if you've found a hiding spot and/or broken line of sight for a period of time.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Some games get away with it. It has to be used properly (like others have suggested). The Mansion mission in Mission Impossible on 64 was clever. That kind of stealth is met with a disguise, but you have to time when you make your move to complete the mission.

When developers add stealth to games like Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2. That was awful. Forget the stupid articles about comparing it to RapeLay. Those stealth missions did not need to be there at all.

Stealth can either flow with a game or it slows down the pacing. One hit kill monsters are a cool concept, but few games capitalize on this. I think MGSV did it well by having air strikes available and going ham with a machine gun plus an option to snipe a whole base asleep and para them back to MB.

Spider-Man was also a very modern game too. IMO they probably added it to make the game have more production value to it. The scene with Rhino was cool, but felt out of place. It feels like an unwanted break to make the game feel more appealing.

I also thought the stealth sucked in XV. That area where you're going around a puzzle like building before the boss fight was downright terrible. It was ugly and it wasn't fun to play.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

That's okay. Stealth games require planning, patience, observation, and actual skill in execution - none of these are skills that are in any way beneficial, so it is completely okay that you are advertising that you have none of them. Not something to feel ashamed of at all, and certainly not something for which you should be crying yourself to sleep every single night for the rest of your life, secretly knowing that you are but a human shaped animal.

 

[Elcid]

That's just as stupid, just on the other side of the spectrum. There's no reason for an enemy to chase you if you've found a hiding spot and/or broken line of sight for a period of time.

I'm okay with killing every single enemy that found me and makes the most sense. I just hate that instant fail bullshit. It's obnoxious and a shit mechanic.

 

[Nickolaidas]

That's okay. Stealth games require planning, patience, observation, and actual skill in execution - none of these are skills that are in any way beneficial, so it is completely okay that you are advertising that you have none of them. Not something to feel ashamed of at all, and certainly not something for which you should be crying yourself to sleep every single night for the rest of your life, secretly knowing that you are but a human shaped animal.

Always good to know that different opinions are respected and encouraged in this community.

 

[Rodolink]

I don't know who or why anyone enjoys forced stealth sections in games.
This is coming from the guy who killed every single enemy in every MGS game that could be killed.
In MGS3 I would simply keep killing until eventually helicopters stopped coming.
Assassins Creed 2, after you escape the first attempt on the Borgia, on the bridge leaving the cathedral, the entire bridge was covered in corpses before I finally got away.
I basically kill until people stop spotting me in Assassins Creed.
MGS4 I killed about 200 guys in the first level.
I suck at stealth. I legitimately suck at it. I'm not patient, and when I try to be patient, I get caught.
Why the hell does EVERY game require this shit? Assassins Creed. Spider-Man (WHY!). Final Fantasy XV (WHY?!). Resident Evil 7 (Ok I get this one...). Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted, Batman games, etc. etc. I get them in the context of the story, be all sneaky sneaky and don't get caught, but come on, they should all be skippable or solvable by killing/disarming/KOing everyone.
None were more upsetting than Spider-Man though, that was just obnoxious. I have to watch Spider-Man webbing people up while I'm stuck running around as Mary Jane where if I'm caught I fail immediately? That was just a shit idea and whoever conceived that idea should feel bad about themselves.

That's got to be the most upsetting part about all these damn mandated stealth sections, not only are you usually unable to attack, you INSTANTLY fail if you get seen. How is this fun? How is this a fun user experience?
Look, if you're going to mandate stealth, at least handle it like MGS where if I fail, I can just shoot my way out of it, because fuck stealth, that's why.

There's my rant, provoked by FFXV's stealth section in chapter 6.

I agree with you man, it's like part of the game designers "palette" of mechanics "hmm lets add some touch of stealth here,, just for the sake of variety.
But on the other side it can be well or bad designed. Like on MGS or splinter cell. The worst offender imo has been Lords of Shadow 2 omg what a bull. And then FFXV

 

[Elcid]

I agree with you man, it's like part of the game designers "palette" of mechanics "hmm lets add some touch of stealth here,, just for the sale of variety.
But on the other side it can be well or bad designed. Like on MGS or splinter cell. The worst offender imo has been Lords of Shadow 2 omg what a bull. And then FFXV

I never got past the first stealth section in LoS2. It caused me to immediately lose interest in the game and to never play it again. Mind you, I loved part 1 and Mirror of Fate.

 

[Geki-D]

This is coming from the guy who

Generally when someone says this it's followed by examples of how good they are or how much they've achieved in said thing. For example: "I hate MGS4, and this is coming from the guy who got Big Boss rank in MGS 1, 2, & 3".

Also stealth is fine so long as it makes sense to the plot and is coherent throughout the game. I agree that it sucks when a game has no stealth then sudden for just one level it tries to do it.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

Always good to know that different opinions are respected and encouraged in this community.

I respected the right to have a different opinion, but I don't have to respect the opinion itself. Like, if someone said, "I think pineapple goes on pizza", I would say, "I absolutely applaud your courage in sharing such a unique and different opinion, but if you ever put that shit on my pizza, the police will never find your body".

 

[Vader1]

For the most part I don’t think the stealth sections in Zelda are that bad, though they’re far from the best parts of the games. Forsaken Fortress in WW is actually pretty terrible though.

Otherwise, I honestly don’t play that many games with forced stealth, so I can’t really comment much about it in general. I guess Sly Cooper has stealth, though it’s probably very watered down.

 

[Rodolink]

I never got past the first stealth section in LoS2. It caused me to immediately lose interest in the game and to never play it again. Mind you, I loved part 1 and Mirror of Fate.

Yeah I like those as well. Only that shitty part sucked. I mean you're Dracula for Christ's sake!

 

[D3SCHA1N]

I think the key word here is 'forced'. Forced sequences of any kind suck. Forced stealth, forced sniping, forced action. I like when games provide the flexibility where you can choose how you play rather than requiring a specific style of gameplay.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I respected the right to have a different opinion, but I don't have to respect the opinion itself. Like, if someone said, "I think pineapple goes on pizza", I would say, "I absolutely applaud your courage in sharing such a unique and different opinion, but if you ever put that shit on my pizza, the police will never find your body".

Not agreeing with him is ok, as well as explaining why.

Calling him a human shaped animal for finding stealth mechanics tiresome and tedious isn't.

 

[Halo is Back]

I love stealth games they can be very rewarding and fun when experimenting. It can also heighten the tension and fear in a game like Alien Isolation. That is the most pure stealth game I have ever played. No UI, no aids, no markers, it’s just you, the Alien and death. Truly riveting stuff

 

[odhin]

wth man. Stealth is the best if its well done, because if its not it just becomes boring.

But yeah I love me some full on stealth games like the Splinter Cell IP for example.

 

[DocEbok]

Pubg (third person) is great stealth game ;D

 

[Hissing Sid]

Because everything has to appeal to
Everyone for maximum profit.

Can’t have someone sat at the breakfast table eating bacon and eggs when you make and sell porridge for a living. Rich vein of untapped pennies that is.

Just stick a bit of bacon and eggs in the porridge to see if they’ll bite. Some will = Profit. And no, they don’t care if it makes the porridge taste a bit off, just as long as bacon lovers are eating their porridge.

 

[engstra]

I personally love stealth games as I love exploring every nook and cranny of the environment. Both stealth and horror games are great at allowing for this as each level is essentially a large environmental puzzle where you need to be fully aware of your surroundings and the patterns of NPCs to navigate your way through.

It does need to be done well and fully committed to by the developer though. I'm not a fan of games that turn into a shootout once you're spotted. I always restart and try again if that happens.

 

[Lanrutcon]

There's this one mission in Wildlands where you need to interrogate a captain who's standing on the helicopter pad of a compound. If he gets spooked by anything he climbs into a sports car and rides off. The compound is full of badguys. One bad shot and you're fucked. Stealth is the only way.

Once you interrogate him a timer starts and you have 5 minutes to get to the bottom of a quarry, where another guy is being held. He's surrounded by bad guys. If you drive well, you get there with about a minute to breach the place and rescue the guy. He dies pretty easily and is literally next to enemies which will use him as cover.

Once you free him you need to extract him with a vehicle to a third location. The moment he's freed enemies in cars mounted with weapons will start pouring into the quarry. Eventually they call in helicopters to assist. You need to put the guy in the car, drive out of the quarry on the single windy road, get passed the enemy blockades all while being chased by the enemy who are pouring gunfire on your vehicle.

If you meet any failure condition at any point (guy escapes, timer runs out, target dies) you get teleported a km outside of the first location and everything is reset. There are no checkpoints.

This is the third worst stealth mission in the game.

 

[Frizzie]

I'm not a fan of the forced "stealth section" in non-stealth games either and tend to avoid it a s a genre.

Deus Ex Human Revolution has to be one of the most enjoyable games I have played recently though. I really was totally invested in this game and its world, so done well in a game dedicted to it, stealth can be great. I basically kitted out my Adam Jensen as a total stealth and hacking build with that 360 ball bearing firing augmentation added to cheese any bosses.

 

[Shifty]

I have a groundbreaking solution for you OP: Don't play games with stealth elements.

90% of the time unless a game is pure stealth, those elements are going to be crap.

 

[Gloggins]

The MJ and Miles stealth segments were just....fuck them with a red hot poker covered in termites and tabasco. I don't wanna play as regular humans in a SUPERHERO GAME thanks, Insomniac. Stealth as Spidey was fun and I'd like that to be built upon in the sequel. I mean the amount of goons you pummel in direct combat is exhausting.

 

[MisterBrimstone]

Slow day at the office huh?

If the developers want to have fun with a stealth level I see nothing wrong with it. Just endure it and move on, many people enjoy them.

If the game is completely stealth based then don't even complain because it's not catered to you.

This is just "Let's complain about stuff we don't like".

 

[deathsaber]

I don't mind stealth, but I abhore insta-fail stealth sequences. But games where you can "thin the crowd" a bit to make it easier for when things break down are generally pretty cool. I do hate it though when game make it so if you break stealth, then it results in like 30 guys spawning or something, which is BS. It makes no sense when there are 10 guys in a fort you are infiltrating, and you can stealth kill 10 and clear the place, but if one sees you, now theres now like 40 guys there pouring out of the walls- total BS.

 

[Nymphae]

This is just "Let's complain about stuff we don't like".

See my post about Spiderman. There is good stealth and terribly implemented stealth, and Spiderman has both. It is shoehorned in where it doesn't belong in many cases.

 

[Allforce]

It's not my favorite mechanic because basically I'm often not very good at it. I feel like there's always a really cool way to "complete" a room or sequence via stealth and I always end up fucking up somehow and shit hits the fan. Then I inevitably shoot everyone and move on and I've missed the entire experience the developers designed for me. Sure I could go back and replay it via checkpoint but the moment is gone at that point. I get that this is a problem solely for me but it clouds my entire opinion of the genre a bit.

I really only love stealth if I have the option to shoot people silently from a distance. I'm playing the new Tomb Raider now and I enjoy distracting people from behind cover and then firing arrows into their heads from 100 feet away.

 

[Mexen]

I'm a coward in real life so in Sekiro when I see tall grass, I don't even think twice about engaging enemies haha

 

[Alexios]

Why's Love censored?

Stealth rocks when done right as in Thief 1 & 2, Neon Struct, and others.

 

[mcjmetroid]

It's pretty fun in Sekiro when the AI isn't acting dogshit which isn't often to be fair but I enjoyed stealth in the game warts and all.