ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Eddie probably told her. He tells her everything that the gang is doing.
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Stephen King's IT |OT| He thrusts his fists and then he posts (Unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter Kyleripman
- Start date
Eddie probably told her. He tells her everything that the gang is doing.
I can't believe how many people are deliberately missing the point about the killcount in the movie. Arguing 'less is more' in a movie where most of the horror sequences are 'throw the kitchen sink at the screen' ghost train rides. Arguing 'you just want to see dead kids you weirdos' when you've literally just paid money yourself to go see a movie where everyone knows a five year kid gets brutally murdered in the first ten minutes and literally the ENTIRE PREMISE of the story is an otherworldly entity who feasts on kids.
Practically every horror film ever made that features a predatory entity or entities, whether it be a shark in Jaws or the aliens in, well, Aliens or a psycho in a slasher movie feature a reasonable amount of on-screen kills and the reason for that is it is important in maintaining the levels of tension and fear. The audience has to buy into the idea that the predator is a threat. We all know all the main kids are going to be alive by the end. That isn't the issue. We have to believe in the predator's abilities and be scared by them.
Essentially, a competent predator is a scary one. An incompetent or inept predator isn't a scary one. It's impossible to maintain a base level of fear in something that continually fails to achieve its goals.
It isn't enough to see a predator succeed at something in the first ten minutes of the movie and then fluff every single on-screen opportunity thereafter (apart from Patrick, kinda). There's a reason most horror movies don't do this and it's because watching a supposed predator consistently being a failure isn't scary.
And it isn't just that it fails. It fails in a really half-assed way. It is simultaneously capable of jumping out of walls, turning into a giant, seemingly capable of distorting reality, shape shifting into anything it pleases and moving at lightning speed, yet is vulnerable to that most dastardly of plans - running out of the room.
The body count as is could work if the kids earnt their escape. If it was shown to be competent and the kids still escaped through cunning or trickery or exploiting its weaknesses, you could still believe in its skills. When multiple kids escape simply by running away for 5-10 seconds or exiting the room, it seems less like an incredible otherworldly force and more like a lazy, inept buffoon.
You kind of have to pick one or the other if you want to maintain tension. Either play up the competence of the predatory in executing the kills or play up the competence of the escapees in evading them. The movie does neither and so the horror sequences end up feeling inconsequential. Here's a not very good predator half-assing it and here's some kids escaping in the most mundane ways possible. It's not exactly the stuff tension is made of.
Practically every horror film ever made that features a predatory entity or entities, whether it be a shark in Jaws or the aliens in, well, Aliens or a psycho in a slasher movie feature a reasonable amount of on-screen kills and the reason for that is it is important in maintaining the levels of tension and fear. The audience has to buy into the idea that the predator is a threat. We all know all the main kids are going to be alive by the end. That isn't the issue. We have to believe in the predator's abilities and be scared by them.
Essentially, a competent predator is a scary one. An incompetent or inept predator isn't a scary one. It's impossible to maintain a base level of fear in something that continually fails to achieve its goals.
It isn't enough to see a predator succeed at something in the first ten minutes of the movie and then fluff every single on-screen opportunity thereafter (apart from Patrick, kinda). There's a reason most horror movies don't do this and it's because watching a supposed predator consistently being a failure isn't scary.
And it isn't just that it fails. It fails in a really half-assed way. It is simultaneously capable of jumping out of walls, turning into a giant, seemingly capable of distorting reality, shape shifting into anything it pleases and moving at lightning speed, yet is vulnerable to that most dastardly of plans - running out of the room.
The body count as is could work if the kids earnt their escape. If it was shown to be competent and the kids still escaped through cunning or trickery or exploiting its weaknesses, you could still believe in its skills. When multiple kids escape simply by running away for 5-10 seconds or exiting the room, it seems less like an incredible otherworldly force and more like a lazy, inept buffoon.
You kind of have to pick one or the other if you want to maintain tension. Either play up the competence of the predatory in executing the kills or play up the competence of the escapees in evading them. The movie does neither and so the horror sequences end up feeling inconsequential. Here's a not very good predator half-assing it and here's some kids escaping in the most mundane ways possible. It's not exactly the stuff tension is made of.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Very good film. I agree with several of the criticism of it. A lot of the movie felt like a monster mash type of deal, going through one set of separate scares after another with nothing really tying them together in a very cohesive way. The underling dread of Pennywise therefore is hindered as a result. You go in knowing there will be build up and knowing something will pop out to frighten you. In a way it becomes routine rather than fresh.
Still, the scares are well directed. One in particular, the projection Pennywise, was fucking terrifying in doing something unexpected at the end of an expected fright. It helped that the scenes were all in unique places. Rather than deep dark rooms all the time things happened in broad daylight in the middle of town, emphasizing how far the evil could reach.
However you can't talk about this film without the acting and damn was it good. Everyone, from the Losers to Pennywise did an incredible job in selling their characters. In reality you spend a short amount of time with each, and most aren't very well developed. Despite this though, the cast draws you into their narratives almost immediately and you can't help but feel invested in their actions. The humor was a great and welcome addition to add much needed levity to what could have been a very heavy movie. By the end, the kids throwing comedic lines in the climax doesn't feel jarring but rather very fitting.
All in all this was a great watch and one I'd recommend anyone to see.
Still, the scares are well directed. One in particular, the projection Pennywise, was fucking terrifying in doing something unexpected at the end of an expected fright. It helped that the scenes were all in unique places. Rather than deep dark rooms all the time things happened in broad daylight in the middle of town, emphasizing how far the evil could reach.
However you can't talk about this film without the acting and damn was it good. Everyone, from the Losers to Pennywise did an incredible job in selling their characters. In reality you spend a short amount of time with each, and most aren't very well developed. Despite this though, the cast draws you into their narratives almost immediately and you can't help but feel invested in their actions. The humor was a great and welcome addition to add much needed levity to what could have been a very heavy movie. By the end, the kids throwing comedic lines in the climax doesn't feel jarring but rather very fitting.
All in all this was a great watch and one I'd recommend anyone to see.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Well this movie also wants to be a feel good comedy and an adventure, which a lot of horror movies don't ever cross with other genres. The end result is something we can all agree is a fun ride.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
This scene caught everyone in the theater off-guard. Masterfully done.
Psychoward
Banned
Also two things I really enjoyed about the movie that I haven't seemed mentioned in my quick skim of the thread;
1) the part where Georgie is saying you'll float too was almost comedic in trailers but in the full movie seeing It use him as a ventriloquist doll and then just slam him down after he realizes he needs to change his tactics was pretty great
2) my friend described It in the 2017 movie as a clearly supernatural being trying to be a clown and completely failing at the impersonation and I loved it. The voice, the twitching, the contortions, really satisfying to watch regardless of if you're scared or not (I personally wasn't but the original didn't phase me either)
1) the part where Georgie is saying you'll float too was almost comedic in trailers but in the full movie seeing It use him as a ventriloquist doll and then just slam him down after he realizes he needs to change his tactics was pretty great
2) my friend described It in the 2017 movie as a clearly supernatural being trying to be a clown and completely failing at the impersonation and I loved it. The voice, the twitching, the contortions, really satisfying to watch regardless of if you're scared or not (I personally wasn't but the original didn't phase me either)
Poor GRIMES
Banned
I don't typically scare easily... but It has me completely fucked up :/. I constantly have to have the lights on everywhere in the house now and I feel like I'm being watched whenever I'm alone lol
The Giant
Banned
It's rated MA15+ in Australia. It's not an R rated movie at all.
You're kidding right?
Yes.
This was superb, the cinema was packed and everyone loved it, found Pennywise very scary. They nailed that aspect. The projector scene was the highlight.
The complaints are legit though, some elements are disappointingly underdeveloped, there's some clunky dialogue and exposition, despite running at 2.5 hrs it felt like it needed more time to flesh out the town and build some dread. As such IT was pretty much always on the screen.
The bullies were a missed opportunity, severely underdeveloped. It was perhaps a little too much comic adventure and not enough eery horror.
I dont understand people groaning at Chapter One... were you expecting the film to go on for another 2 hours with the adults?
I hope it does big box office and they get a quick turnaround on that Chapter Two...
The complaints are legit though, some elements are disappointingly underdeveloped, there's some clunky dialogue and exposition, despite running at 2.5 hrs it felt like it needed more time to flesh out the town and build some dread. As such IT was pretty much always on the screen.
The bullies were a missed opportunity, severely underdeveloped. It was perhaps a little too much comic adventure and not enough eery horror.
I dont understand people groaning at Chapter One... were you expecting the film to go on for another 2 hours with the adults?
I hope it does big box office and they get a quick turnaround on that Chapter Two...
Just saw it.
Other than the fact that horror audience on opening night fucking SUCK. Fucking talking through the whole thing because they're too scared to let themselves be scared...
I was majorly let down.
All of the pieces were there for a classic. Amazing cast (outside of Bowers who was awful), amazing location....the script lacked any nuance ("I found this in my research" begins an exposition dump.
Endless dick jokes, even after they'd overstayed their welcome.
The most nonsensical painting of a woman ever.
A rock war that was mind numbingly dumb.
Eddies mom being so far beyond caricature.
Etc etc.
I can't help but feel underwhelmed. And my hype for this was through the roof.
Other than the fact that horror audience on opening night fucking SUCK. Fucking talking through the whole thing because they're too scared to let themselves be scared...
I was majorly let down.
All of the pieces were there for a classic. Amazing cast (outside of Bowers who was awful), amazing location....the script lacked any nuance ("I found this in my research" begins an exposition dump.
Endless dick jokes, even after they'd overstayed their welcome.
The most nonsensical painting of a woman ever.
A rock war that was mind numbingly dumb.
Eddies mom being so far beyond caricature.
Etc etc.
I can't help but feel underwhelmed. And my hype for this was through the roof.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
This is a good video. It contains spoilers but that shouldn't matter because anyone here has seen it by now I should hope.
https://youtu.be/TVfUZJlXj0k
He talks about how we're likely going to see them as adults in part 2. Thing is, they are quite young as actors right now and will they really look adult in two years from now? Assuming we get part 2 then.
That was when he came out of the casket in the room full of clown puppets? He looks way creepier here than I remember, haha.
https://youtu.be/TVfUZJlXj0k
He talks about how we're likely going to see them as adults in part 2. Thing is, they are quite young as actors right now and will they really look adult in two years from now? Assuming we get part 2 then.
That was when he came out of the casket in the room full of clown puppets? He looks way creepier here than I remember, haha.
Jim_Cacher
Member
IT is amazing. I need to close my eyes for a few seconds during a certain scene to catch some breathe. That shit is intense.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Which one was that?
Jim_Cacher
Member
A room full of crowns.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
I was a bit let down. I found nothing scary here at all, and the editing was rough. I really wanted to be scared and I do think the Pennywise design is good and creepy, but by the halfway point it seemed clear that the kids were just going to keep escaping with minor wounds at most. The threat vanished. I started to wonder if IT wanted to kill kids at all, or if he just ate fear and at most wanted to kidnap kids as fear cattle. He seemed to be deliberately letting the kids escape over and over.
For a lot of the movie it just seemed like they were going through a checklist of "Pennywise appears to a kid, scares the kid, and then the sequence ends." There were a lot of scenes like this, and a lot of them just appeared one after the other with nothing to tie them together. I was expecting something to come of that but there wasn't really anything more to it than that. Cool visuals, at least.
I was hungry to learn something about the history of the town or more about Pennywise's mythology, but there wasn't much in the movie. There were some references to things in the library newspaper clippings but we didn't get much information other than "it happens every 27 years".
The only part that got any reaction at all out of the audience I was with was the jump scare when Pennywise was choking Beverly after she smashed her dad's head in. Also everyone laughed at the head-tracking dancing part with Pennywise at the end. That was funny and will make a good gif when we get the blu-ray release.
I hope RLM does a Half In The Bag for this quickly
For a lot of the movie it just seemed like they were going through a checklist of "Pennywise appears to a kid, scares the kid, and then the sequence ends." There were a lot of scenes like this, and a lot of them just appeared one after the other with nothing to tie them together. I was expecting something to come of that but there wasn't really anything more to it than that. Cool visuals, at least.
I was hungry to learn something about the history of the town or more about Pennywise's mythology, but there wasn't much in the movie. There were some references to things in the library newspaper clippings but we didn't get much information other than "it happens every 27 years".
The only part that got any reaction at all out of the audience I was with was the jump scare when Pennywise was choking Beverly after she smashed her dad's head in. Also everyone laughed at the head-tracking dancing part with Pennywise at the end. That was funny and will make a good gif when we get the blu-ray release.
I hope RLM does a Half In The Bag for this quickly
BreezyLimbo
Banned
If it's like the book,
Then it'll take place 27 years after this film. Soo they'll use different actors
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Hopefully just as good as these because man they all did a fantastic job. The actress playing Beverly has a great future ahead of her would be my guess. She was great. But who knows maybe the director surprises everyone and comes with a totally different story.
Loved that scene. Very well done.
One cut I liked at the first half of the film was between our introduction to Mike with the sheep and the losers leaving class. As the gate closes inside the barn, we see the kids leave the classroom in the next shot. Pretty straightforward but I had hoped there'd be more of these to help stitch the scenes together.
You're not wrong, but you've listed some of the worst aspects of the movie... the bits that aren't these bits - they were brilliant. And c'mon complaining about dick jokes.
Too many dick jokes
Too many mom/sister jokes
Too many scenes of Pennywise running at the screen shaking his head violently (seriously, if this is the director's thing......)
That said, I really enjoyed it. It wasn't scary but I enjoyed Pennywise, and I enjoyed the cast of kids. Agree with the sentiment that it's a good coming of age story but a somewhat poor horror.
Too many mom/sister jokes
Too many scenes of Pennywise running at the screen shaking his head violently (seriously, if this is the director's thing......)
That said, I really enjoyed it. It wasn't scary but I enjoyed Pennywise, and I enjoyed the cast of kids. Agree with the sentiment that it's a good coming of age story but a somewhat poor horror.
I agree with a lot of this. I enjoyed the film but because of what you listed, I didn't really enjoy the "horror" elements. And looking back I agree that IT started to feel all bark and no bite, with the way the kids just kept escaping it by....running 5 feet.
These characters don't die in the book, and will all go on to have a role in the next film. You expected the film to deviate from this?
I guess they maybe could've thrown in another incidental character death in Act 2. Kill another bully or something.
As the poster I quoted said, they didn't have to necessarily kill more people. They could have just did a better job of staging escapes.
MrCookiepants
Member
Nobody's talking about the most disturbing scene in the entire movie.
When Mike is getting beaten down by the bullies and he sees blood-soaked Pennywise sitting in the grass watching and waving some kid's severed arm.
When Mike is getting beaten down by the bullies and he sees blood-soaked Pennywise sitting in the grass watching and waving some kid's severed arm.
Wat
esmith08734
Member
Lol!
Mango Positive
Member
I loved it. I read the book last in 1985, but the details of the story never left me. I like the changes and thought they worked. As for the complaints I'm reading here... I just think it's weird. This was one of the best horror movies I've ever seen (and I'm a 40 year old fan of the genre). I'm not a director or a master craft writer, so any thoughts I might have on what the professionals should have done seem kind of useless. Besides, just watching the reactions of the people in the theater throughout the movie and after the credits rolled should tell you everything you need to know about the job the cast and crew did.
Pennywise left because they were all together. That was the point. Together they're powerful, alone they're frightened and vulnerable. Pennywise let them escape in earlier scenes to let them marinate in their fear. They'll be sweeter next time. You don't have to show him killing more people. You hear that he has. You just need to show 2 of them and imply the rest. There's plenty of actual death on Live Leak if you need your fix.
Pennywise left because they were all together. That was the point. Together they're powerful, alone they're frightened and vulnerable. Pennywise let them escape in earlier scenes to let them marinate in their fear. They'll be sweeter next time. You don't have to show him killing more people. You hear that he has. You just need to show 2 of them and imply the rest. There's plenty of actual death on Live Leak if you need your fix.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
the kids were so great. bill was the obvious weak link here--he doesn't seem quite so heroic in this version of the story as others, here merely led on by the delusion that georgie is alive, a delusion instantly broken upon finding his doppelgänger in the sewers. the stutter was a total loose end that they never really returned to or emphasized appropriately--i did kind of want bill to say the "he thrusts his fists" line as they were toppling pennywise to give that some closure.
on that note, was anyone else dissatisfied with the kids' assault on pennywise? it seemed not to capture that it's them facing and conquering their fears that ultimately makes them powerful enough to destroy him (i weirdly missed eddie using his inhaler as a weapon!).
the horror elements did not work. the route to go with the horror in a movie about an evil that lives below the surface and goes unnoticed should be largely eerie and implied for most of the film--just out of view. from square one they put pennywise right in your face and though he has a thousand teeth as a threat he is toothless. he is in the room with the kids for minutes at a time at least twice in the movie and does nothing. crazily, the scene from the miniseries in which one of the boys sees his dead father in military father standing in a graveyard holding balloons and calling to him was way creepier than anything here. THAT BEING SAID--the garage scene was great, especially up to the point that pennywise makes his actual appearance. it ratchets up the tension in a way that other scenes with horror ambitions do not. i can't tell if i should blame skarsgard or not for my general dissatisfaction with this portrayal of the character. it does seem like in making the film the director did not know how to make him truly menacing.
but again, major props to these kids. richie and beverly and ben especially were such a treat. even eddie! this is a great version of eddie. his mom is also appropriately grotesque and obtuse without being cartoonish. in this the movie is a wild success.
the audience i watched it with had a great time and reacted appropriately to all the spooky scenes. it is a real crowd pleaser and i do hope they make part 2.
on that note, was anyone else dissatisfied with the kids' assault on pennywise? it seemed not to capture that it's them facing and conquering their fears that ultimately makes them powerful enough to destroy him (i weirdly missed eddie using his inhaler as a weapon!).
the horror elements did not work. the route to go with the horror in a movie about an evil that lives below the surface and goes unnoticed should be largely eerie and implied for most of the film--just out of view. from square one they put pennywise right in your face and though he has a thousand teeth as a threat he is toothless. he is in the room with the kids for minutes at a time at least twice in the movie and does nothing. crazily, the scene from the miniseries in which one of the boys sees his dead father in military father standing in a graveyard holding balloons and calling to him was way creepier than anything here. THAT BEING SAID--the garage scene was great, especially up to the point that pennywise makes his actual appearance. it ratchets up the tension in a way that other scenes with horror ambitions do not. i can't tell if i should blame skarsgard or not for my general dissatisfaction with this portrayal of the character. it does seem like in making the film the director did not know how to make him truly menacing.
but again, major props to these kids. richie and beverly and ben especially were such a treat. even eddie! this is a great version of eddie. his mom is also appropriately grotesque and obtuse without being cartoonish. in this the movie is a wild success.
the audience i watched it with had a great time and reacted appropriately to all the spooky scenes. it is a real crowd pleaser and i do hope they make part 2.
a quite effective horror, but a really average movie
there are a few good CGI scares and thrills to be had, but the film just runs out of steam by the end, and when it starts to repeatedly smack you over the head with its "THIS IS THE MESSAGE, DUMMY!" squeaky hammer I was ready to bail out...I'd worked this out myself during the (really solid) build-up, thanks movie
aside from that, I enjoyed the bants between the kids and Pennywise's performance...otherwise it's just ok
there are a few good CGI scares and thrills to be had, but the film just runs out of steam by the end, and when it starts to repeatedly smack you over the head with its "THIS IS THE MESSAGE, DUMMY!" squeaky hammer I was ready to bail out...I'd worked this out myself during the (really solid) build-up, thanks movie
aside from that, I enjoyed the bants between the kids and Pennywise's performance...otherwise it's just ok
Thing is, it felt throughout the movie as if the losers had plot armor. Not having one of them die reduced the tension of the movie significantly because after a bit of a way into the movie, I knew that they would all make it. That makes the movie less intense. There are no stakes. If It presented more of a danger and I felt like anyone could have died, the movie would have been a lot more tense. As is, the movie is effectively a string of fakeout jump scares and a CGI monster battle at the end. Kind of disappointing.
More_Badass
Member
How are there no stakes? There are only stakes if the characters can die?
"No Steaks?" Is one of the latest lazy cricitisms-alongside "I noticed CG" as Bobby stated earlier.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I got scared of things, even after watching a movie... never died.
Were they then not scary because they didn't kill me?
Were they then not scary because they didn't kill me?
Aquavelvaman
Banned
There's a big pile of old bikes and stuff about 100 feet and a bunch of bodies levitating around it in a slow spiral
I wish people in this thread would not post spoiler screengrabs from the projector scene. Not only does it potentially spoil it for people who come into the thread but it spoils it for people who have seen it.
The way that scene is shot would be effective watched multiple times, but people gotta go post the money shot everywhere until it lacks any power. Welcome to the internet.
The way that scene is shot would be effective watched multiple times, but people gotta go post the money shot everywhere until it lacks any power. Welcome to the internet.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Yes, at one point Bev is just freeze-framed hung up in the air and it's quite creepy when thinking of it from the other kids' perspectives.
But there's also a spire with children floating around it.
Psychoward
Banned
Check the title of the thread
Spoiler discussion doesn't mean revealing stills or clips from the actual film, when it only came out yesterday.
RuinerPrime
Member
I thought it look pretty cool. It gave new meaning to "you'll float". and fyi they are dead children.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
What is the other meaning? Just that corpses float in water? I don't think I get that as the tag line