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[Ekai]

That's a non-statement though.

It's literally as progressive as it is through lots of the major influences of society wanting to be more liberal. And in attempt to assuage everyone that their party represents them.

At the end of the day the Democratic party exists to push a platform that represents their values best.

Cue Bernie being able to sufficiently influence the party as an attempt to bring in voters who rather vote more liberally.

The idea that more and more people subscribe to their own ideology rather than be complacent with the party-line should always feel more liberating as it means less concessions to the status quo.

It's not a non-statement tho. It's literally a testament to the Democrats veering left-ward because of voter desires. That's my point. To reject them and potentially give the election to Trump is a sign to them to just go further right. They'll have to in order to stay competitive with the Republicans.

Not only that your statements here seem incredibly contradictory to the end-goal of supporting progressive-ideals. Progressiveism is dead in America if Trump wins. Not dead permanently but certainly dead in the water for decades. The SC will be conservative for decades. You're willing to destroy any chance of what Bernie pushes for just because the Democrats aren't as left-wing as you would like? They aren't as left-wing as I would like but I'm not going to throw my vote away on a third party. I've made it clear already in this topic I'll only ever vote third party when it's for a party further left than the Democrats that has an actual shot at anything.

I don't like the status-quo but the Democrats seem, for the most part, happy to make things better. Which is a stark difference from the Republicans.

 

[benjipwns]

Third parties run thousands of candidates for lower positions. That's where the only elected Greens/Libertarians are. But the odds are still stacked heavily against them there too. You can't win if you can't even get on the ballot.

You're willing to destroy any chance of what Bernie pushes for just because the Democrats aren't as left-wing as you would like?

Maybe he knows how much his own vote is worth in the grand scheme of things? And that it's not this powerful.

 

[213372bu]

It's not a non-statement tho. It's literally a testament to the Democrats veering left-ward because of voter desires. That's my point. To reject them and potentially give the election to Trump is a sign to them to just go further right. They'll have to in order to stay competitive with the Republicans.

Not only that your statements here seem incredibly contradictory to the end-goal of supporting progressive-ideals. Progressiveism is dead in America if Trump wins. Not dead permanently but certainly dead in the water for decades. The SC will be conservative for decades. You're willing to destroy any chance of what Bernie pushes for just because the Democrats aren't as left-wing as you would like? They aren't as left-wing as I would like but I'm not going to throw my vote away on a third party. I've made it clear already in this topic I'll only ever vote third party when it's for a party further left than the Democrats that has an actual shot at anything.

I don't like the status-quo but the Democrats seem, for the most part, happy to make things better. Which is a stark difference from the Republicans.

Yet if you were to fast-forward to election day, your decision on who to vote for would affect absolutely nobody.

Whether you dropped in Trump or Hillary for your ballet, the outcome of this election wouldn't be affected at all.

And no, I'm not saying to just go out and vote Trump because your vote doesn't matter. That goes against the purpose.

 

[seat]

Al Gore. John Kerry. Hillary Clinton.

These are three weak DNC-groomed candidates that the tow the party line and we are/were supposed to vote for them because "hey, it's better than the other guy and you should feel guilty if you don't."

When will the DNC learn this tactic doesn't work? Yes, Clinton is experienced, but that doesn't automatically make her a good candidate. She doesn't admit past mistakes, doesn't hold press conferences, won't tow anything actually progressive other than the company line. If elected she'll (hopefully) continue Obama's policies, but she hasn't been running an Obama-like campaign. Hillary and her supporters instead dismiss progressives and try to deliberately frame them in a bad light, people who would call themselves Democrats if they weren't being represented by someone who in many ways isn't liberal and yet blindly-loved by supporters that consider her some kind of royalty whose shit doesn't stink ("YAAAS QUEEN!"). She is not a candidate of the people, she's a candidate of lobbyists who happens to have some "no-shit" ideals that appeal to most Democrats. That's not enough. This election is 2000 and 2004 all over again.

It all boils down to this: "Our candidate is better than the other guy, so vote for our guy" is not a winning strategy. Anybody is better than Trump. No fucking shit. That's not enough. You have to be a good candidate by representing your people, stand for something that means something to the people you're supposed to be representing. Don't turn you, your party heads, and your supporters into mindless drones that self-hate the actual people of your own party. Don't be Kerry. Don't be Gore.

I'm voting for Hillary this November, but the pragmatic part of me knows she's probably going to lose given that her camp is using the same losing tactic that Gore's and Kerry's did. The fact that the polls have been this close proves it. Polls should never be this close when you're competing against a stain like Donald Trump. I truly hope the Hillary camp and her supporters realize that there is something seriously wrong in their approach and change needs to happen if they want to actually win the GE.

 

[benjipwns]

won't tow anything actually progressive other than the company line.

I believe it's "tow the lion" not "line."

 

[Tranqueris]

When will the DNC learn this tactic doesn't work? Yes, Clinton is experienced, but that doesn't automatically make her a good candidate. She doesn't admit past mistakes, .

She's has admitted her mistakes and multiple times too.

Superpredators.
Crime bill.
Email server.
Thought of another one. Saying that the Reagan's did great things for the gay community.

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

[Christine]

And all this applies to telling someone that if they vote third party or don't vote that they're voting for Trump and throwing their vote away how?

You can't presume that person can or will in any way influence others votes enough to make an identifiable impact on the outcome.

You're simply trying to deceive them into publicly supporting your position out of peer pressure. You'll never know how they actually voted.

It's hard to argue against someone when they're right. Any energy spent on who one voter will vote for when it is one portion of millions and only indirectly affects the outcome if at all is surely pointless. If you are serious about winning this election and you believe that demographic change is in your favor for establishing a majority, what you want to do is work on getting as many people to vote as possible and count on the proportional benefit. Anything else is a distraction at best.

I believe it's "tow the lion" not "line."

You ain't nothing but a god damn dirty son of a

 

[Crossing Eden]

I like how pointing out the numerous list of reasons why you are essentially wasting your vote is considered selfish but not the idea of voting as if no one else is available, as in basically putting fingers in your eyes and saying "lalala country what country? Idc about how my vote affects the country, mememememememe" But no no continue ignoring the large list of reasons while pretending there we're the selfish ones. ಠ_ಠ

 

[213372bu]

If you are serious about winning this election and you believe that demographic change is in your favor for establishing a majority, what you want to do is work on getting as many people to vote as possible and count on the proportional benefit. Anything else is a distraction at best.

Yet how is it a distraction at best, is the threat of not appealing to other voters not a reality?

Platforms don't just randomly cater to the voters of failed candidates for no reason.

And it definitely has been a big concern for this entire democratic platform this voting cycle. In fact it was so recognizable of a threat that most major speakers at the DNC made mention of not going out to vote.

Lying over and just following the platform with your inconsequential vote seems meaningless. You're possibly, depending on your political views, rolling over and endorsing a platform with a regressive view purely in fear that your vote could prevent the opposition from winning.

But your vote doesn't prevent anyone from winning.

 

[Media]

I don't understand the focus on the 'single vote' in the thread now. Of course one single vote isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But if enough people 'throw away their votes' or what have you because they are disillusioned, or sad that Bernie didn't get the nomination, or just plain don't care then yes, that can change the course of the election. This is why people are discussing this persons single vote, because they represent a group of people with these same sentiments. If OP doesn't change their mind, of course, it's no big deal. But talking in general to the group of people the OP represents is important to some folk.

 

[janoDX]

Can't wait until a Brexit like fiasco happens if Trump wins. Difference is, if Trump wins he will start his govern before (and if) the Brexit happens.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Imagine people 50 years ago, year by year, voting increasingly the persons they want to vote instead of playing a strategy game by voting for someone else. Maybe things would be different now.

Instead of always looking what will happen in the next four years, maybe people should look at what could be after the next 50 years. If people don't do that, then every single election will continue to be the same; people voting for someone else than what they would really want to vote for, and people trying to talk others to vote the way they want to vote.



Nothing will ever change as long as people fall into the strategy bullshit year after year.
Who knows, maybe even right now there are enough people to make the difference. I bet there are so many people voting for both Trump and Hillary only because of this strategy game that if they all voted for the ones they'd really want to vote, maybe some other people would be the ones who'd be fighting for precidency. And even if there wouldn't be that many people, the voting numbers would be drastically different so that maybe the next election, when people have been encouraged to vote differently and seen it starting to bear fruit, or the next election after that would actually be all about real democracy and not this crooked form of democracy.


I'm probably talking out from my ass here, but I won't stop talking out of my ass until I see this tried at least once. Make a change, be the change! Refuse to fall into the bullshit of forced political hivemind strategy game!

The strategy-free vote you vote now isn't a vote for the next four years, but it's a vote for the next 100 years! Popular strategy is only temporary. Own personal choice is for eternity!


Now, excuse me, I go back into hiding as I can already hear the incoming laughter aimed towards every single word I wrote
You may laugh me out of a Neogaf political thread, but you will never laugh me out of my empty but comfortable cave.

I get what you are saying, but this is probably THE worst timing in US history to try and go for a 3rd party.

 

[benjipwns]

I get what you are saying, but this is probably THE worst timing in US history to try and go for a 3rd party.

Electing a third party candidate for President in 1860 started a war that killed over half a million Americans.

 

[213372bu]

I get what you are saying, but this is probably THE worst timing in US history to try and go for a 3rd party.

If this person voted for Vermin Supreme it wouldn't aid any one candidate in winning though. It wouldn't stop one from winning either.

One person's vote isn't that powerful.

 

[Aaronology]

She doesn't admit past mistakes...

Hillary Clinton admits private email server was 'a mistake'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/08/hillary-clinton-apologizes-private-email-server

Hillary Clinton says her Iraq war vote was a 'mistake'
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hillary-clinton-iraq-war-vote-mistake-iowa-118109

Hillary Clinton Says It’s About ‘Hard Choices’ But Admits Many of Her Choices Were Wrong
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/hillary-clinton-says-its-_b_9825650.html

Hillary Clinton Admits Supporting the 1994 Crime Bill Was a 'Mistake'
https://mic.com/articles/137183/hillary-clinton-admits-supporting-the-1994-crime-bill-was-a-mistake#.dxy9ljR8n

Hillary Clinton, Citing Her ‘Mistake,’ Apologizes for Private Email
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/08/hillary-clinton-calls-private-email-server-a-mistake-says-im-sorry-about-that/

Hillary Clinton on Private Email: ‘That Was a Mistake. I’m Sorry’
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-private-email-mistake-im/story?id=33608970

Hillary Clinton on Iraq vote: ‘I still got it wrong. Plain and simple.’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

Hillary Clinton admits mistake in using White House List
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=20001015&id=dccvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tDsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5657,5443573&hl=en
"That was my error, absolutely my error, and not that of a campaign staffer."

Hillary Clinton Says She Agrees Her Role In Mass Incarceration Was A Mistake
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/06/3757126/hillary-clinton-mass-incarceration-mistake/
“I signed a bill that made the problem worse. And I want to admit it.”

...won't tow anything actually progressive other than the company line.

Hillary and her supporters instead dismiss progressives...

Democrats Advance Most Progressive Platform in Party History
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/democrats-advance-most-progressive-platform-party-history-n606646

Sanders endorses Clinton, touts 'most progressive platform' in history
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/12/sanders-expected-to-finally-endorse-clinton-in-new-hampshire.html

Clinton, Dems embrace a progressive vision with little resistance
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/clinton-dems-embrace-progressive-vision-little-resistance

Hillary Rodham Clinton has been fighting for progressivism longer than I have been alive, and is one of the most liberal Democrats in the Federal government. Refer to her stances recorded and categorized by ontheissues.org:

HILLARY CLINTON ON...

...ABORTION​

• It's big government to intervene on woman's right to choose. (Oct 2015)
• 1999: keep abortion safe, legal & rare into next century. (Jul 2007)
• Lift ban on stem cell research to cure devastating diseases. (Jun 2007)
• 1993:Early action on abortion rights ended Right’s dominance. (Jun 2007)
• Respect Roe v. Wade, but make adoptions easier too. (Nov 2006)
• Partial birth exceptions for life-threatening abnormalities. (Apr 2006)
• Government should have no role in abortion decision. (Oct 2005)
• Must safeguard constitutional rights, including choice. (Oct 2000)
• Late term abortion only if life or health are at risk. (Oct 2000)
• Remain vigilant on a woman’s right to chose. (Jan 2000)
• Keep abortion safe, legal and rare. (Jan 1999)
• Being pro-choice is not being pro-abortion. (Jan 1999)
• Reach out to teens to reduce teen sex problems. (Jan 1999)
• Voted liberal line on partial birth & harm to fetus. (Oct 2005)
• Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
• Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
• Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
• Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
• Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
• Voted NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
• Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
• Endorsed Recommended by EMILY's List of pro-choice women. (Apr 2001)
• Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. (Dec 2003)
• Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
• Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women. (May 2006)
• Sponsored bill for emergency contraception for rape victims. (Sep 2006)
• Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
• Provide emergency contraception at military facilities. (Apr 2007)
• Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)
• Focus on preventing pregnancy, plus emergency contraception. (Jan 2009)
  
  
  ...CIVIL RIGHTS
• Fight systemic racism in education & employment. (Feb 2016)
• Root out systemic racism exposed by social media. (Feb 2016)
• After 200 presidential debates, female majority on stage. (Feb 2016)
• No Ceilings: worldwide full equal education for girls. (Apr 2015)
• Women in Public Service Project: 50% of officials by 2050. (Nov 2013)
• 1998: Hillary predicted female President in near future. (Oct 2007)
• 1962: met MLK Jr. preaching a sermon in Chicago. (Jul 2007)
• 1995: Politely criticized China’s human rights. (Jun 2007)
• Developmental thread: tragedy of race must be made right. (Jun 2007)
• Pushing for privacy bill of rights. (Jun 2006)
• Professional woman AND hostess; feminist AND traditionalist. (Nov 2003)
• Crack down on sex trafficking of women and girls. (Jan 2000)
• Human rights are women’s rights. (Jan 2000)
• Women’s rights are human rights. (Dec 1999)
• Support National Endowment for the Arts. (Feb 1997)
• Sex selection, prostitution & war rape: human rights issues. (Sep 1995)
• Women's suffrage was 72-year struggle, but not a shot fired. (Sep 1993)
  
  
  ...AFFIRMATION ACTION
• Fight systemic racism in education & employment. (Feb 2016)
• Will fight for minorities, immigrants, & women's rights. (Feb 2016)
• Unleash the full potential of women and girls. (Feb 2016)
• We need a New Deal for Communities of Color. (Oct 2015)
• OpEd: "18 million cracks" meant "lingering sexism". (Aug 2009)
• Heads movement of women looking to America's true promise. (Aug 2009)
• Equal pay is not yet equal. (Jan 2008)
• MLK recognized that working within the system was necessary. (Jan 2008)
• Compiled “Handbook on Legal Rights for Arkansas Women”. (Nov 2007)
• Hillary wanted Bill’s cabinet to “Look Like America”. (Oct 2007)
• Founded Vital Voices Initiative with Madeleine Albright. (Sep 2007)
• 1965: brought black classmates to all-white church. (Jul 2007)
• We’ve come a long way on race, but we have a long way to go. (Jun 2007)
• 1988: Instituted gender diversity Report Card within ABA. (Jun 2007)
• Create a pipeline for more women in leadership. (Oct 2005)
• 1972: Worked with Edelman on school desegregation in South. (Nov 2003)
• Apologize for slavery, but concentrate on civil rights now. (Oct 2000)
• First chair of ABA Commission on Women and the Profession. (Aug 1999)
• Raised issues of gender compensation gap at 1970s Rose Law. (Nov 1997)
• Affirmative living: involve entire village against racism. (Sep 1996)
  
  
  ..GAY RIGHTS
• LGBT people now married on Saturday & fired on Monday. (Feb 2016)
• Pledged to sign Employment Non-Discrimination Act. (Apr 2015)
• I re-evaluated & changed my mind on gay marriage. (Jun 2014)
• We have all evolved on gay marriage since 1990s. (Jun 2014)
• DOMA discrimination holds us back from a more perfect union. (Jun 2013)
• I support gay marriage personally and as law. (Mar 2013)
• Telling kids about gay couples is parental discretion. (Sep 2007)
• Positive about civil unions, with full equality of benefits. (Aug 2007)
• Let states decide gay marriage; they’re ahead of feds. (Aug 2007)
• GLBT progress since 2000, when I marched in gay pride parade. (Aug 2007)
• Supports DOMA, which Bill Clinton signed. (Jul 2007)
• Don’t ask don’t tell was an important transition step. (Jun 2007)
• 2004:defended traditional marriage; 2006:voted for same-sex. (May 2007)
• Federal Marriage Amendment would be terrible step backwards. (Oct 2006)
• Gay soldiers need to shoot straight, not be straight. (Nov 2003)
• End hate crimes and other intolerance. (Sep 2000)
• Gays deserve domestic partnership benefits. (Feb 2000)
• Military service based on conduct, not sexual orientation. (Dec 1999)
• Co-sponsored bill to criminalize flag-burning. (Jan 2010)
• Op-ed: Sponsored flag-burning bill for centrist credential. (May 2006)
• Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
• Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
• Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
• Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
• Shift from group preferences to economic empowerment of all. (Aug 2000)
• Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
• Rated 89% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
• Rated 96% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
• Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery. (Jun 2008)
• Provide benefits to domestic partners of Federal employees. (Dec 2007)
• Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)
• Reinforce anti-discrimination and equal-pay requirements. (Jan 2008)
  
  
  ...HEALTHCARE
• 1990s plan failed after big pharma & insurance worked on it. (Apr 2007)
• 1990s healthcare reforms laid groundwork for today’s reforms. (Mar 2007)
• Still scarred from 1990s reform, but now doing it better. (Feb 2007)
• When last Republican backed out, HillaryCare died. (Nov 2003)
• Despite failure, glad she tried system-wide reform. (Nov 2003)
• 1994 "Harry & Louise" ads exploited consumer fears. (Nov 2003)
• 1990s plan based on employer mandate. (Feb 2003)
• Learned lessons on health care; but hasn’t given up goal. (Aug 2000)
• 1979: Developed program to deliver rural healthcare. (Aug 1999)
• OpEd: 1993 debate was highest level ever reached. (Jun 1997)
• 1994: can't fix just part of problem; it's all or nothing. (Jan 1997)
• Health care initiatives are her first priority in Senate. (Feb 2001)
• Voted YES on overriding veto on expansion of Medicare. (Jul 2008)
• Voted NO on means-testing to determine Medicare Part D premium. (Mar 2008)
• Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
• Voted NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000. (May 2006)
• Voted YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D. (Feb 2006)
• Voted YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics. (Nov 2005)
• Voted YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug. (Mar 2005)
• Voted NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Jun 2003)
• Voted YES on allowing reimportation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
• Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
• Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)
• Establish "report cards" on HMO quality of care. (Aug 2000)
• Invest funds to alleviate the nursing shortage. (Apr 2001)
• Let states make bulk Rx purchases, and other innovations. (May 2003)
• Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record. (Dec 2003)
• End government propaganda on Medicare bill. (Mar 2004)
• Sponsored bill for mental health service for older Americans. (May 2005)
• Improve services for people with autism & their families. (Apr 2007)
• Establish a national childhood cancer database. (Mar 2007)
• Preserve access to Medicaid & SCHIP during economic downturn. (Apr 2008)
  
  
  ...POVERTY
• Address distressed communities and generational poverty. (Feb 2016)
• Make sure the economy works for everybody. (Jan 2008)
• Partner with faith based community in empowerment zones. (Dec 2007)
• Considered idea of $5000 at birth to pay for future college. (Oct 2007)
• Time-out for mortgage companies on march toward foreclosure. (Sep 2007)
• Equal access to capital and jobs. (Jan 2000)
• Working should mean no poverty. (Jan 2000)
• Community involvement helps, but only in short term. (Dec 1999)
• Don’t criminalize the homeless. (Dec 1999)
• 1976: Founded first indigent legal aid in Fayetteville AR. (Aug 1993)
• Finish welfare reform by moving able recipients into jobs. (Aug 2000)
• Establish a National Affordable Housing Trust Fund. (Jul 2003)
• Tax credits to promote home ownership in distressed areas. (Apr 2003)
• Fully fund AmeriCorps. (Jun 2003)
  

She is not a candidate of the people, she's a candidate of lobbyists who happens to have some "no-shit" ideals that appeal to most Democrats.

You say the woman who has won the popular vote in BOTH primaries she has fought, in 2008 and now in 2016, is not the candidate of the people?

Yes, Clinton is winning the popular vote — by a wide margin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/19/yes-hillary-clinton-is-winning-the-popular-vote-by-a-wide-margin/

How Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but lost the 2008 primary
http://nonprophetnews.com/top-news/how-hillary-clinton-won-the-popular-vote-but-lost-the-2008-primary/

Hillary Clinton Will Be Nominated Because More Democrats Are Voting For Her
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hillary-clinton-clinches-democratic-nomination-according-to-ap/

No, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders wouldn't have won even if super delegates were nixed
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/25/donald-trump/no-donald-trump-bernie-sanders-wouldnt-have-won-ev/

Does Clinton really have 2.5 million more votes than Sanders?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/05/hillary-clinton/does-clinton-really-have-25-million-more-votes-san/

Leading by 2.3 Million Votes, Clinton Still Faces Long Primary Battle
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/leading-2-3-million-votes-clinton-still-faces-long-primary-n554416

The System Isn’t ‘Rigged’ Against Sanders
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/

Hillary Clinton: “I’ve Gotten More Votes Than Anybody Running On Either Side”
http://www.nationalmemo.com/hillary-clinton-ive-gotten-more-votes-than-anybody-else-running-on-either-side/

Alright. I'm done. You say she has your vote but it doesn't appear you have any interest in objectivity or informing yourself on Clinton's very long and documented career. I am also particularly annoyed by certain people attempting to claim she isn't popular when she has the support of minorities (overwhelmingly so), the LGBTQ and women. There is only one specific demographic group that rejects her in favor of Donald Trump and there is more to America than the bubble they live in.

 

[dLMN8R]

<snip>

This is beautiful. Thanks. Did you put this together or did you pull from somewhere else?

I'm sick of people peddling this caricature of Hillary which doesn't represent reality.

 

[Aaronology]

This is beautiful. Thanks. Did you put this together or did you pull from somewhere else?

Yes. At this point I am mostly quoting myself from older threads on GAF. It's all the same bullshit, from "Clinton is Republican lite" to "she never admits mistakes" or "no one likes Hillary at all."

I'm sick of people peddling this caricature of Hillary which doesn't represent reality.

Same.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Hillary Clinton admits private email server was 'a mistake'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/08/hillary-clinton-apologizes-private-email-server

Hillary Clinton says her Iraq war vote was a 'mistake'
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hillary-clinton-iraq-war-vote-mistake-iowa-118109

Hillary Clinton Says It’s About ‘Hard Choices’ But Admits Many of Her Choices Were Wrong
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/hillary-clinton-says-its-_b_9825650.html

Hillary Clinton Admits Supporting the 1994 Crime Bill Was a 'Mistake'
https://mic.com/articles/137183/hillary-clinton-admits-supporting-the-1994-crime-bill-was-a-mistake#.dxy9ljR8n

Hillary Clinton, Citing Her ‘Mistake,’ Apologizes for Private Email
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/08/hillary-clinton-calls-private-email-server-a-mistake-says-im-sorry-about-that/

Hillary Clinton on Private Email: ‘That Was a Mistake. I’m Sorry’
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-private-email-mistake-im/story?id=33608970

Hillary Clinton on Iraq vote: ‘I still got it wrong. Plain and simple.’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

Hillary Clinton admits mistake in using White House List
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=20001015&id=dccvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tDsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5657,5443573&hl=en
"That was my error, absolutely my error, and not that of a campaign staffer."

Hillary Clinton Says She Agrees Her Role In Mass Incarceration Was A Mistake
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/06/3757126/hillary-clinton-mass-incarceration-mistake/
“I signed a bill that made the problem worse. And I want to admit it.”






Democrats Advance Most Progressive Platform in Party History
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/democrats-advance-most-progressive-platform-party-history-n606646

Sanders endorses Clinton, touts 'most progressive platform' in history
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/12/sanders-expected-to-finally-endorse-clinton-in-new-hampshire.html



Clinton, Dems embrace a progressive vision with little resistance
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/clinton-dems-embrace-progressive-vision-little-resistance

Hillary Rodham Clinton has been fighting for progressivism longer than I have been alive, and is one of the most liberal Democrats in the Federal government. Refer to her stances recorded and categorized by ontheissues.org:






You say the woman who has won the popular vote in BOTH primaries she has fought, in 2008 and now in 2016, is not the candidate of the people?

Yes, Clinton is winning the popular vote — by a wide margin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/19/yes-hillary-clinton-is-winning-the-popular-vote-by-a-wide-margin/

How Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but lost the 2008 primary
http://nonprophetnews.com/top-news/how-hillary-clinton-won-the-popular-vote-but-lost-the-2008-primary/

Hillary Clinton Will Be Nominated Because More Democrats Are Voting For Her
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hillary-clinton-clinches-democratic-nomination-according-to-ap/

No, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders wouldn't have won even if super delegates were nixed
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/25/donald-trump/no-donald-trump-bernie-sanders-wouldnt-have-won-ev/

Does Clinton really have 2.5 million more votes than Sanders?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/05/hillary-clinton/does-clinton-really-have-25-million-more-votes-san/

Leading by 2.3 Million Votes, Clinton Still Faces Long Primary Battle
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/leading-2-3-million-votes-clinton-still-faces-long-primary-n554416

The System Isn’t ‘Rigged’ Against Sanders
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/

Hillary Clinton: “I’ve Gotten More Votes Than Anybody Running On Either Side”
http://www.nationalmemo.com/hillary-clinton-ive-gotten-more-votes-than-anybody-else-running-on-either-side/

Alright. I'm done. You say she has your vote but it doesn't appear you have any interest in objectivity or informing yourself on Clinton's very long and documented career. I am also particularly annoyed by certain people attempting to claim she isn't popular when she has the support of minorities (overwhelmingly so), the LGBTQ and women. There is only one specific demographic group that rejects her in favor of Donald Trump and there is more to America than the bubble they live in.

Saving this for future use. Amazing post.

 

[Shig]

Imagine people 50 years ago, year by year, voting increasingly the persons they want to vote instead of playing a strategy game by voting for someone else. Maybe things would be different now.

Instead of always looking what will happen in the next four years, maybe people should look at what could be after the next 50 years. If people don't do that, then every single election will continue to be the same; people voting for someone else than what they would really want to vote for, and people trying to talk others to vote the way they want to vote.



Nothing will ever change as long as people fall into the strategy bullshit year after year.
Who knows, maybe even right now there are enough people to make the difference. I bet there are so many people voting for both Trump and Hillary only because of this strategy game that if they all voted for the ones they'd really want to vote, maybe some other people would be the ones who'd be fighting for precidency. And even if there wouldn't be that many people, the voting numbers would be drastically different so that maybe the next election, when people have been encouraged to vote differently and seen it starting to bear fruit, or the next election after that would actually be all about real democracy and not this crooked form of democracy.


I'm probably talking out from my ass here, but I won't stop talking out of my ass until I see this tried at least once. Make a change, be the change! Refuse to fall into the bullshit of forced political hivemind strategy game!

The strategy-free vote you vote now isn't a vote for the next four years, but it's a vote for the next 100 years! Popular strategy is only temporary. Own personal choice is for eternity!


Now, excuse me, I go back into hiding as I can already hear the incoming laughter aimed towards every single word I wrote
You may laugh me out of a Neogaf political thread, but you will never laugh me out of my empty but comfortable cave.

This is all a very nice thought, but the fact of the matter is that one party in our system distinctly maintains their power base through blatant skullduggery and an amazing brainwashing game. So long as there's a major party willing to redraw maps in order to get their way, to suppress voters' rights, to seed outright contempt for facts and data, and to instill non-sequitur Pavlovian reponses that don't actually address issues into their enthralled electorate, honest political discourse in our country is held ransom. We'll never reach that "vote whatever you feel and the best candidate will probably win" ideal as long as a party that relentlessly works to actively sabotage informed votes has so much power and influence.

I know that all is a little counter to its own logic, 'you have to defeat a unified front of groupthink by assembling a unified front of opposing groupthink,' but it's unfortunate reality. You can't disassemble a force hellbent on destroying fair play and logic without first overpowering it with a more powerful opposing force that will work to restore them. Only from there can you make real gains on a system where the best candidates and platforms can naturally rise to the top, whatever their affiliation.

 

[dLMN8R]

If people elected McCain 8 years ago, or Romney 4 years ago, then:

• Pre-existing conditions still wouldn't be covered. Have some bad luck? Fuck you, no health insurance
• Gay marriage still wouldn't be legal. Want to marry the person you love? Want to have the person you love be a legitimate next of kin if something happens to you? Fuck you, you're not a human.
• The Great Recession would have easily turned into the next Great Depression. Think you have it hard now with income inequality soaring? Think you're under-paid and working too hard? You'd be in far bigger shit if Obama wasn't president during that time.
• Do you like what Scalia has accomplished as a Supreme Court judge? If Obama wasn't elected, you'd have at least 2 more of him.

The list goes on. And Obama was considered "the lesser of two evils" too by selfish assholes who have no idea what the presidency is for.

4? 8 years ago? People were still saying the same shit about third parties. They wanted to "send a message"! They wanted to show what was possible with a third party!

Congratulations, third-parties. You've still accomplished absolutely jack shit because you're incapable of doing anything at the local and state levels.

 

[Venfayth]

Voting idealistically is to ignore reality. Vote practically.

 

[Concrete Charlie]

nvm

 

[Viewt]

Hillary Clinton admits private email server was 'a mistake'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/08/hillary-clinton-apologizes-private-email-server

Hillary Clinton says her Iraq war vote was a 'mistake'
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hillary-clinton-iraq-war-vote-mistake-iowa-118109

Hillary Clinton Says It’s About ‘Hard Choices’ But Admits Many of Her Choices Were Wrong
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/hillary-clinton-says-its-_b_9825650.html

Hillary Clinton Admits Supporting the 1994 Crime Bill Was a 'Mistake'
https://mic.com/articles/137183/hillary-clinton-admits-supporting-the-1994-crime-bill-was-a-mistake#.dxy9ljR8n

Hillary Clinton, Citing Her ‘Mistake,’ Apologizes for Private Email
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/08/hillary-clinton-calls-private-email-server-a-mistake-says-im-sorry-about-that/

Hillary Clinton on Private Email: ‘That Was a Mistake. I’m Sorry’
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-private-email-mistake-im/story?id=33608970

Hillary Clinton on Iraq vote: ‘I still got it wrong. Plain and simple.’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

Hillary Clinton admits mistake in using White House List
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=20001015&id=dccvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tDsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5657,5443573&hl=en
"That was my error, absolutely my error, and not that of a campaign staffer."

Hillary Clinton Says She Agrees Her Role In Mass Incarceration Was A Mistake
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/06/3757126/hillary-clinton-mass-incarceration-mistake/
“I signed a bill that made the problem worse. And I want to admit it.”






Democrats Advance Most Progressive Platform in Party History
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/democrats-advance-most-progressive-platform-party-history-n606646

Sanders endorses Clinton, touts 'most progressive platform' in history
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/12/sanders-expected-to-finally-endorse-clinton-in-new-hampshire.html



Clinton, Dems embrace a progressive vision with little resistance
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/clinton-dems-embrace-progressive-vision-little-resistance

Hillary Rodham Clinton has been fighting for progressivism longer than I have been alive, and is one of the most liberal Democrats in the Federal government. Refer to her stances recorded and categorized by ontheissues.org:






You say the woman who has won the popular vote in BOTH primaries she has fought, in 2008 and now in 2016, is not the candidate of the people?

Yes, Clinton is winning the popular vote — by a wide margin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/19/yes-hillary-clinton-is-winning-the-popular-vote-by-a-wide-margin/

How Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but lost the 2008 primary
http://nonprophetnews.com/top-news/how-hillary-clinton-won-the-popular-vote-but-lost-the-2008-primary/

Hillary Clinton Will Be Nominated Because More Democrats Are Voting For Her
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hillary-clinton-clinches-democratic-nomination-according-to-ap/

No, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders wouldn't have won even if super delegates were nixed
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/25/donald-trump/no-donald-trump-bernie-sanders-wouldnt-have-won-ev/

Does Clinton really have 2.5 million more votes than Sanders?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/05/hillary-clinton/does-clinton-really-have-25-million-more-votes-san/

Leading by 2.3 Million Votes, Clinton Still Faces Long Primary Battle
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/leading-2-3-million-votes-clinton-still-faces-long-primary-n554416

The System Isn’t ‘Rigged’ Against Sanders
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/

Hillary Clinton: “I’ve Gotten More Votes Than Anybody Running On Either Side”
http://www.nationalmemo.com/hillary-clinton-ive-gotten-more-votes-than-anybody-else-running-on-either-side/

Alright. I'm done. You say she has your vote but it doesn't appear you have any interest in objectivity or informing yourself on Clinton's very long and documented career. I am also particularly annoyed by certain people attempting to claim she isn't popular when she has the support of minorities (overwhelmingly so), the LGBTQ and women. There is only one specific demographic group that rejects her in favor of Donald Trump and there is more to America than the bubble they live in.

This is excellent work. Thanks for putting this together.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Hillary Clinton admits private email server was 'a mistake'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/08/hillary-clinton-apologizes-private-email-server

Hillary Clinton says her Iraq war vote was a 'mistake'
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hillary-clinton-iraq-war-vote-mistake-iowa-118109

Hillary Clinton Says It’s About ‘Hard Choices’ But Admits Many of Her Choices Were Wrong
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/hillary-clinton-says-its-_b_9825650.html

Hillary Clinton Admits Supporting the 1994 Crime Bill Was a 'Mistake'
https://mic.com/articles/137183/hillary-clinton-admits-supporting-the-1994-crime-bill-was-a-mistake#.dxy9ljR8n

Hillary Clinton, Citing Her ‘Mistake,’ Apologizes for Private Email
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/08/hillary-clinton-calls-private-email-server-a-mistake-says-im-sorry-about-that/

Hillary Clinton on Private Email: ‘That Was a Mistake. I’m Sorry’
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-private-email-mistake-im/story?id=33608970

Hillary Clinton on Iraq vote: ‘I still got it wrong. Plain and simple.’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

Hillary Clinton admits mistake in using White House List
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=20001015&id=dccvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tDsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5657,5443573&hl=en
"That was my error, absolutely my error, and not that of a campaign staffer."

Hillary Clinton Says She Agrees Her Role In Mass Incarceration Was A Mistake
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/06/3757126/hillary-clinton-mass-incarceration-mistake/
“I signed a bill that made the problem worse. And I want to admit it.”






Democrats Advance Most Progressive Platform in Party History
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/democrats-advance-most-progressive-platform-party-history-n606646

Sanders endorses Clinton, touts 'most progressive platform' in history
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/12/sanders-expected-to-finally-endorse-clinton-in-new-hampshire.html



Clinton, Dems embrace a progressive vision with little resistance
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/clinton-dems-embrace-progressive-vision-little-resistance

Hillary Rodham Clinton has been fighting for progressivism longer than I have been alive, and is one of the most liberal Democrats in the Federal government. Refer to her stances recorded and categorized by ontheissues.org:






You say the woman who has won the popular vote in BOTH primaries she has fought, in 2008 and now in 2016, is not the candidate of the people?

Yes, Clinton is winning the popular vote — by a wide margin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/19/yes-hillary-clinton-is-winning-the-popular-vote-by-a-wide-margin/

How Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but lost the 2008 primary
http://nonprophetnews.com/top-news/how-hillary-clinton-won-the-popular-vote-but-lost-the-2008-primary/

Hillary Clinton Will Be Nominated Because More Democrats Are Voting For Her
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hillary-clinton-clinches-democratic-nomination-according-to-ap/

No, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders wouldn't have won even if super delegates were nixed
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/25/donald-trump/no-donald-trump-bernie-sanders-wouldnt-have-won-ev/

Does Clinton really have 2.5 million more votes than Sanders?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/05/hillary-clinton/does-clinton-really-have-25-million-more-votes-san/

Leading by 2.3 Million Votes, Clinton Still Faces Long Primary Battle
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/leading-2-3-million-votes-clinton-still-faces-long-primary-n554416

The System Isn’t ‘Rigged’ Against Sanders
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/

Hillary Clinton: “I’ve Gotten More Votes Than Anybody Running On Either Side”
http://www.nationalmemo.com/hillary-clinton-ive-gotten-more-votes-than-anybody-else-running-on-either-side/

Alright. I'm done. You say she has your vote but it doesn't appear you have any interest in objectivity or informing yourself on Clinton's very long and documented career. I am also particularly annoyed by certain people attempting to claim she isn't popular when she has the support of minorities (overwhelmingly so), the LGBTQ and women. There is only one specific demographic group that rejects her in favor of Donald Trump and there is more to America than the bubble they live in.

This is amazing

 

[The Lamonster]

You don't have to like her to vote for her. Voting isn't about who you 'like' it's about who's best for the job!

I just don't understand how people don't get this.

100% this!

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Hillary Clinton admits private email server was 'a mistake'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/08/hillary-clinton-apologizes-private-email-server

Hillary Clinton says her Iraq war vote was a 'mistake'
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hillary-clinton-iraq-war-vote-mistake-iowa-118109

Hillary Clinton Says It’s About ‘Hard Choices’ But Admits Many of Her Choices Were Wrong
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/hillary-clinton-says-its-_b_9825650.html

Hillary Clinton Admits Supporting the 1994 Crime Bill Was a 'Mistake'
https://mic.com/articles/137183/hillary-clinton-admits-supporting-the-1994-crime-bill-was-a-mistake#.dxy9ljR8n

Hillary Clinton, Citing Her ‘Mistake,’ Apologizes for Private Email
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/08/hillary-clinton-calls-private-email-server-a-mistake-says-im-sorry-about-that/

Hillary Clinton on Private Email: ‘That Was a Mistake. I’m Sorry’
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-private-email-mistake-im/story?id=33608970

Hillary Clinton on Iraq vote: ‘I still got it wrong. Plain and simple.’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

Hillary Clinton admits mistake in using White House List
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=20001015&id=dccvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tDsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5657,5443573&hl=en
"That was my error, absolutely my error, and not that of a campaign staffer."

Hillary Clinton Says She Agrees Her Role In Mass Incarceration Was A Mistake
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/06/3757126/hillary-clinton-mass-incarceration-mistake/
“I signed a bill that made the problem worse. And I want to admit it.”






Democrats Advance Most Progressive Platform in Party History
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/democrats-advance-most-progressive-platform-party-history-n606646

Sanders endorses Clinton, touts 'most progressive platform' in history
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/12/sanders-expected-to-finally-endorse-clinton-in-new-hampshire.html



Clinton, Dems embrace a progressive vision with little resistance
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/clinton-dems-embrace-progressive-vision-little-resistance

Hillary Rodham Clinton has been fighting for progressivism longer than I have been alive, and is one of the most liberal Democrats in the Federal government. Refer to her stances recorded and categorized by ontheissues.org:






You say the woman who has won the popular vote in BOTH primaries she has fought, in 2008 and now in 2016, is not the candidate of the people?

Yes, Clinton is winning the popular vote — by a wide margin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/19/yes-hillary-clinton-is-winning-the-popular-vote-by-a-wide-margin/

How Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but lost the 2008 primary
http://nonprophetnews.com/top-news/how-hillary-clinton-won-the-popular-vote-but-lost-the-2008-primary/

Hillary Clinton Will Be Nominated Because More Democrats Are Voting For Her
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hillary-clinton-clinches-democratic-nomination-according-to-ap/

No, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders wouldn't have won even if super delegates were nixed
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/25/donald-trump/no-donald-trump-bernie-sanders-wouldnt-have-won-ev/

Does Clinton really have 2.5 million more votes than Sanders?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/05/hillary-clinton/does-clinton-really-have-25-million-more-votes-san/

Leading by 2.3 Million Votes, Clinton Still Faces Long Primary Battle
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/leading-2-3-million-votes-clinton-still-faces-long-primary-n554416

The System Isn’t ‘Rigged’ Against Sanders
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/

Hillary Clinton: “I’ve Gotten More Votes Than Anybody Running On Either Side”
http://www.nationalmemo.com/hillary-clinton-ive-gotten-more-votes-than-anybody-else-running-on-either-side/

Alright. I'm done. You say she has your vote but it doesn't appear you have any interest in objectivity or informing yourself on Clinton's very long and documented career. I am also particularly annoyed by certain people attempting to claim she isn't popular when she has the support of minorities (overwhelmingly so), the LGBTQ and women. There is only one specific demographic group that rejects her in favor of Donald Trump and there is more to America than the bubble they live in.

You should really make a thread out of this post. There are way too many tin foil hat wearing people on here who need to see this

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

You should really make a thread out of this post. There are way too many tin foil hat wearing people on here who need to see this

I second this. People are falling for 25+ years of Republican slander and rhetoric, even those on the left.

 

[Anoregon]

Truthnuke

 

[thegoosen]

[fking great post]

Bookmarked for inspiring me to bookmark insightful articles more often to bring in silence to easily 95% of the discussions with this powerful method.

 

[Hex]

I voted for Nader and I got really tired of hearing about how I was responsible for all of Bush's atrocities.

The 2 parties both use the same fear tactic to try and hold everybody hostage, and I find it very easy to grow resentful of it.

How did that change work out for you?
Really taught the system didn't you.
But it felt good to show those people who kept telling you that you shouldn't didn't it, and you showed them good. That is what matters.

 

[Mael]

How did that change work out for you?
Really taught the system didn't you.
But it felt good to show those people who kept telling you that you shouldn't didn't it, and you showed them good. That is what matters.

It's ok nothing important happened between 2000 and 2004 after all.

 

[RoninChaos]

Have you been paying attention? Take a look at /r/sandersforpresident and click through to their migration site and tell me with a straight face that busting isn't very two weeks ago. At this point in the proceedings it is hard to see complaining about how Bernie supporters behaved during the primary as much more than the childish whining of a sore winner.

On-topic: I try to avoid bringing "as an x" framing into play. Can't do too much about what other people do.

I actually voted for Bernie and I'm not a big Hilary supporter but I know that voting third party is giving the election to Trump. It's a much better idea to vote for someone like Hilary who won't shit on the rights of EVERYONE and isn't a racist/fascist like Trump. This idea that if they don't vote for her it will be a fuck you to the dems is baffling. If everyone thought and voted like the OP, Trump will end up in office and instead of dems saying "We lost because we didn't move left" they're going to look at moving more to the right to get the general vote because they just lost to a cheeto with a hair piece,who ran on a platform of xenophobia, racism, bigotry and building a wall. And losing to him would send the signal that they didn't move to the right enough and support those crazy ideas. Not "Look at all these voters who were upset that Bernie lost".

The conversation in this thread isn't unusual to me or uncommon. Bernie supporters are free to feel how they feel, however it feels like the ones still holding out and saying "Fuck Hilary" are the equivalent of fair weather fans at best and the equivalent of the Left's version of the Tea Party at worst. Further, I don't tend to see the idea of a third party vote coming from anyone besides Bernie supporters and libertarians. Thag may be anecdotal because of what I see in my everyday life and because I have a bunch of friends/coworkers who are democrats in a red state.

*edit* Also, I don't think the hatred of Hilary on the left would have caught on the way it has and we wouldn't be having this conversation if you didn't have sections of the media constantly harping on her while over looking the HUGE faults of Donald Trump, just so this race can be kept neck and neck.