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Stop using my oppression as an argument for your favored candidate

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exaggerating and abusing the english language really isn't helping ur point. it is improbably that stein or johnson (or any other third party candidate) will win. it is not impossible, however.

it is impossible that i'd become president since I don't meet the requirements, tho. :(

How? Explain to me how Jill Stein or Gary Johnson could win when neither have a an actual ground game to make enough people know who the hell they are.

Hell, Stein isn't even available on every state's ballot.

It's not just improbable, it's impossible in the same way that it's impossible for me to suddenly fall dead without warning.
 
How? Explain to me how Jill Stein or Gary Johnson could win when neither have a an actual ground game to make enough people know who the hell they are.

Hell, Stein isn't even available on every state's ballot.

It's not just improbable, it's impossible in the same way that it's impossible for me to suddenly fall dead without warning.

if you don't know the difference between impossible and improbable, I don't know what to tell ya. go consult a dictionary. by the way, it is possible for people suddenly fall dead without warning. oh, and there's no need for me to conjure up some ridiculous scenario in which a third party candidate wins. we're already in agreement that it's highly improbable.
 
if you don't know the difference between impossible and improbable, I don't know what to tell ya. go consult a dictionary. by the way, it is possible for people suddenly fall dead without warning. oh, and there's no need for me to conjure up some ridiculous scenario in which a third party candidate wins. we're already in agreement that it's highly improbable.

You know what you are right, I give you too much credit when I compare the scenario you bring up (a third party winning POTUS) to something actually possible.

So I ask again, how in the flying fuck are Jill Stein or Gary Johnson going to win when they don't even have campaigns capable of informing enough voters about them and Jill Stein isn't even on the ballot in many states?

Literally the only way that Jill Stein or Gary Johnson win is if nearly every Hillary and Trump voter suddenly dies before they can cast their votes. Can I call that scenario impossible or are you going to insist that is only "improbable".

I don't think voting for Hilary Clinton is pragmatic.

Of course you don't, because you are too busy making false equivalencies to justify your heavily flawed decisions.
 
Unless you live in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina or Ohio, it is of absolutely no consequence who you vote in the presidential and I don't know why anyone would care either way.

That said, vote in your locals.
 
When I was 16, I was forced into a 3 month Christian Summer Camp where they performed conversion "therapy" for LGBT youths 13 to 16. It was torture, and I brought a lot of examples of what they did back in other threads. The stuff they inject us with to make us sick, the sexual molestation, the humiliation, the beatings, and even some rapes if what I heard from other victims were true. I, myself, am still heavily oppressed. Since the time I moved to the state of New Mexico last year, I have been heavily discriminated and can't find employment, I've been assaulted dozens of times, and raped over 9 times. The cops never help me, one time one of them walked into a scene of me being assaulted and they just walked away.

And the right wing call transgender people pedophiles, rapists, and so much more. They're pushing laws so we have to humiliate ourselves, to legally discrimination on, and now their platform calls for state funding for this torture as a viable treatment for us, as if we're a disease. Mike Pence, the scum that he is, is Trump's VP, and he'll gain enough influence to get that legislation done with a Republican Congress and a Conservative Supreme Court.

I am an oppressed minority American, I approve that image because that's the truth whether you like it or not. We need to stop Trump for many reasons, one of which is for the minorities of America whose voices are not loud as it should be, and if you're using your vote in foolish protest instead of voting for the only person who can realistically stop Trump and Pence from ever stepping in the White House, because you don't want like Clinton or the DNC, you need to accept the consequences of those actions. Because the reality is this, only Clinton or Trump is going to sit in that office and erect the course of the Supreme Court for the next few decades. Your choice is either the flawed liberal woman or the loudmouth fascist pig, that's all you get.

Your experiences are horrible. But I don't believe we only have two choices. I think to combat the oppression that we face, we need to abandon the political system that created that oppression (Trump hasn't been running the country for the last 30 years) and build movements to support ourselves. That is, historically, the only way change has occurred - particularly in the U.S.

Also:

1. Move to New York.

2. Join one of the Queer affinity groups I roll with. If someone tries to mess with you ever again, we will fuck them up.

Be safe out there.
 
I don't think voting for Hilary Clinton is pragmatic.
Fair.

So now the hard question: What would you suggest a gay black man like myself do instead? Of the choices before me, which do you think leads to an America where someone like myself is not at risk of losing rights?

Do I vote for Trump?
Stein?
Johnson?

Elaborate.
 
Aaronology, see above. We have to fight for ourselves. Politicians will never save us.

Of course you don't, because you are too busy making false equivalencies to justify your heavily flawed decisions.

I've never said Clinton and Trump are the same. Putting fourth that argument shows you're not interested in honest discussion.
 
Unless you live in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina or Ohio, it is of absolutely no consequence who you vote in the presidential and I don't know why anyone would care either way.

That said, vote in your locals.

hear hear. local elections are far more significant for most voters. ironically no one cares.
 
Fair.

So now the hard question: What would you suggest a gay black man like myself do instead? Of the choices before me, which do you think leads to an America where someone like myself is not at risk of losing rights?

Do I vote for Trump?
Stein?
Johnson?

Elaborate.

you should vote hilary (in addition to locals), but you should note, that bill clinton screwed over black people pretty badly last decade. That being said, you're rolling the dice either way. hilary is just a safer bet. trump seldom shares intelligible policy ideas.
 
Your experiences are horrible. But I don't believe we only have two choices. I think to combat the oppression that we face, we need to abandon the political system that created that oppression (Trump hasn't been running the country for the last 30 years) and build movements to support ourselves. That is, historically, the only way change has occurred - particularly in the U.S.

Wut.

No it isn't.

MLK and the Civil Rights movement worked hand in hand with the fed at the time to overturn state governments in the south. Plus, for her, the only way she'll get what she wants is if we don't blow up the system so she can get federal discrimination protections.
 
How? Explain to me how Jill Stein or Gary Johnson could win when neither have a an actual ground game to make enough people know who the hell they are.

Hell, Stein isn't even available on every state's ballot.

It's not just improbable, it's impossible in the same way that it's impossible for me to suddenly fall dead without warning.

Stein herself knows she won't win anything under a First Past the Post voting system.

No, the two-party system is the worst case scenario. In my view the worst horror of all is a political system that tells us we have to choose between two lethal options, and that’s what we have to fight and we shouldn’t be manipulated into thinking it’s one or the other of these villains out there, one or the other evil.

There’s a readily available solution right now: ranked-choice voting, which would take the fear out of voting and would ensure that people can vote for their values as their first choice, and their pragmatic choice, whatever that is, as their number two. That would actually enable us to move forward in a good way and bring our values back to democracy.

Because again, as others have pointed out, given our electoral system, you don't get much in the way of choices for a presidential election.

I have more thoughts on the overall discussion here, but it's going to be one of my long posts and I got things to do tonight.
 
How? Explain to me how Jill Stein or Gary Johnson could win when neither have a an actual ground game to make enough people know who the hell they are.

Hell, Stein isn't even available on every state's ballot.

It's not just improbable, it's impossible in the same way that it's impossible for me to suddenly fall dead without warning.

Yeah, I actually like Stein but I'd never waste my vote on her because there is no way she could win and all that would do is help Republicans/Trump. Its no secret that the GOP loves the green party and often helps fund their platforms because they know its an easy way to siphon liberal votes away from the Democrats.
 
Aaronology, see above. We have to fight for ourselves. Politicians will never save us.
Ok.

What does this entail? And does it lead to an America post November 8th that sees my rights not at risk of being curtailed? Or those of others who are vulnerable in the United States? I'm being generous listing Stein and Johnson along with Trump. If Clinton is out as The Worst Choice, one of the other three will be President.

Again, I'll ask you to elaborate on which I should vote for and how this benefits me.
 
Your experiences are horrible. But I don't believe we only have two choices. I think to combat the oppression that we face, we need to abandon the political system that created that oppression (Trump hasn't been running the country for the last 30 years) and build movements to support ourselves. That is, historically, the only way change has occurred - particularly in the U.S.
Not voting for either of the two parties in November is absolutely not the way to do this, what you're proposing is a long term solution. If anything, the least likely time when the change you're proposing would take place is during this specific election. No one important is gonna be paying attention to third parties, no one but Trump is gonna be hoping that less people vote. This is the definitive two party election, and it ends with last stand of the REAL oppressors like Trump and his ilk, who seek to undo all of he progress we've made over the last two decades, and a shining beacon for the future and even more liberal policies. There has never been a worse time for third party idealism, millennial apathy, and not voting to make a statement, especially given the fact that the people you think are gonna be receiving said statement, won't be, only your facebook friends and the people you talk to about not voting.
 
Fair.

So now the hard question: What would you suggest a gay black man like myself do instead? Of the choices before me, which do you think leads to an America where someone like myself is not at risk of losing rights?

Do I vote for Trump?
Stein?
Johnson?

Elaborate.

If in a swing state, vote Clinton. If anywhere else, do whatever you want. From a leftist perspective voting Johnson is probably best because the better the Libertarians do and more press attention they attract, the worse the Republicans will do relative to the Democrats because the Republicans and Libertarians have more overlap and so you are helping weaken the Republicans. You could try voting Stein to prompt the Democrats to move leftwards, but that is a risky prospect given you could cause vote-splitting. Probably better to push change in the primaries, a la Sanders, than in the presidential itself.
 
There's also the jokers that come and claim Trump would be better which is only possible if you really liked the 1950's.


Congress could agree tomorrow to make an extraordinary session to change the constitution and make anyone on the planet eligible.
That's only half as likely as Stein winning.

The OP himself even claimed Trump could be better.

People be crazy.
 
Stein herself knows she won't win anything under a First Past the Post voting system.



Because again, as others have pointed out, given our electoral system, you don't get much in the way of choices for a presidential election.

I have more thoughts on the overall discussion here, but it's going to be one of my long posts and I got things to do tonight.

But the only way for Ranked voting to take place would be a constitutional amendment, and I see no reason why either party would support such an amendment, so it's never going to happen.

If you want to see a new party rise, a current one must fall first.
 
I do, he has the accent of the classic American that learned spanish and he spoked it correctly.
Like when he kept pronouncing "sí se puede" (yes we can) as "si se puede" (if possible)? And constantly using the wrong grammatical gender... That's setting the bar for fluency really low. I know plenty of white Americans learners who speak with an obvious American accent but otherwise flawless Spanish, which is what I consider actual fluency.
 
Ok.

What does this entail? And does it lead to an America post November 8th that sees my rights not at risk of being curtailed? Or those of others who are vulnerable in the United States? I'm being generous listing Stein and Johnson along with Trump. If Clinton is out as The Worst Choice, one of the other three will be President.

Again, I'll ask you to elaborate on which I should vote for and how this benefits me.

Stop voting. Get out of the booth and on to the streets.

Wut.

No it isn't.

MLK and the Civil Rights movement worked hand in hand with the fed at the time to overturn state governments in the south.

This is the version they teach in American high schools, which is to say, almost entirely inaccurate.

Plus, for her, the only way she'll get what she wants is if we don't blow up the system so she can get federal discrimination protections.

I see liberals already have their arguments lined up to squash dissent and prop up President Clinton.
 
I find it incredible about how people think supporting Johnson, a candidate who opposes the Civil Rights Act, is a moral step up from Trump.
 
Stop voting. Get out of the booth and on to the streets.
Meanwhile Trump voters will be at the booths in droves. How can you refute or ignore this very VERY pertinent fact? Here's another fact, voting protesting has never done anything but mildly convenience the people mature enough to look past themselves and vote to make a difference in our country, except in this case, you're knowingly supporting a fascist, (because there's no conceivable way you don't realize all the facts laid out in this thread already and aren't just trying to make yourself feel better), who perceives you as lazy based on your race.
 
Like when he kept pronouncing "sí se puede" (yes we can) as "si se puede" (if possible)? And constantly using the wrong grammatical gender... That's setting the bar for fluency really low. I know plenty of white Americans learners who speak with an obvious American accent but otherwise flawless Spanish, which is what I consider actual fluency.

thats something normal from someone that learn the language, I don't expect them to speak the language flawlessly, maybe you have the bar too high for someone under his shoes.
 
Aaronology, see above. We have to fight for ourselves. Politicians will never save us.
Funny that's absolutely not what I heard from Sanders people...

you should vote hilary (in addition to locals), but you should note, that bill clinton screwed over black people pretty badly last decade. That being said, you're rolling the dice either way. hilary is just a safer bet. trump seldom shares intelligible policy ideas.

From your link :
- The protester clearly yelled something about the “three-strikes” provision in the 1994 crime bill. Some in the Black Lives Matter movement have blamed that provision for mass incarceration. But that overstates the effect of the bill, as the steady trend toward increased incarceration long pre-dated the 1994 bill.
- Clinton responded by saying “90 percent of the people in prison too long are in state prisons and local jails,” not federal prisons. But that claim — meant to deflect responsibility for mass incarceration — goes too far in the other direction. The bill did include $8.7 billion for prison construction for states that enacted “truth-in-sentencing” laws, which required people convicted of violent crimes to serve at least 85 percent of their sentences.

Letting the rest of the politicians off the hook for something states were doing on their own before the law was even signed is all kinds of funny.

Stop voting. Get out of the booth and on to the streets.

So that he can be shot by some unruly cops?
Not even in Strike prone France is that a good idea.
 
This makes my fucking blood boil. How dare fucking liberals try to appropriate the suffering of black people - of people who look* like me - and use that suffering to bludgeon white leftists (and silence black ones) into supporting their disgusting, racist, Haiti-destroying, Super-predator spouting, mass-incerating candidate.

It is so disgustingly racist and privileged for people to post this shit. I can't wait to hear your reactions next time #BLM tries to interrupt a Hilarry speech. If you want to guilt people into voting for Clinton, go ahead. But don't use the suffering of black and brown people - of Muslim people especially - when Clinton has ruthlessly supported their destruction and mass incarceration. And don't erase the work of radical leftists of color who have been out their fighting against racist oligarchs like Clinton for years.

Fucking shameful shit.

Edit:*

For the record, I don't agree with any the sentences you typed in your response. Don't play into conservatives hands by furthering their attempt to divide potential anti-Trump voters. It's not for anyone in this thread outside of those who have these experiences to demean the original poster and anyone that has these experiences. These experiences are harsh and make me sad so I don't want to type them but it sucks to read about people going through these things because of someone's perspective on their sexual orientation, preference, etc. Conversion therapy is foul and speaks to the over reliance upon religion and how it warps some people's minds. Our LGBTIA countrymen and women and everyone else deserves our support in their time of need.

The alternative to Hillary is going to take this back into even worse times. Keep that in mind as you bash Hillary. The conservative agenda via Trump is far worse than anyone is ready for. This not an attempt to demean anyone's stance but to point out that the second option is not good.
 
This is the version they teach in American high schools, which is to say, almost entirely inaccurate.



I see liberals already have their arguments lined up to squash dissent and prop up President Clinton.

Dude I literally marched for my rights not even half a decade ago.

We won by petitioning within the system.

Did you just not pay attention to that or did it just not matter? Did I crawl my ass through all those rain and snow storms. All those sit-ins, all those conferences and events and protests. All to get these issues to a vote or heard at the supreme court.

All that didn't matter huh. I was doing it the wrong way, I and those that marched made NO impact?

Okay. I'm not even going to bother with your insult to me. I'v said god knows how many times on this forum I don't like Hillary Clinton.

Edit: You're acting like I don't know what it's like to be a minority. To have people literally spit in my god damn face for holding somebodies hand. To get the shit kicked out of me for years because I thought Shia LaBouf was cute.

Don't assume anything.
 
I actually don't believe that Trump would be worse. In fact, I think he'd be better. Not because his policies would be (they'd be about the same; you literally can't go any lower than claiming the authority to murder any US citizen without due process of law on the advice of intelligence analysts), but at least Democrats would go back to pretending to care about the issue and make some political hay when the abuses happen. Compare the crickets when Obama did in fact assassinate the family members of terrorists back in 2012 to the thunder when Trump even suggested it this election cycle. Or just imagine how apoplectic the left would have been if the Snowden leaks had happened under Bush's watch.

You really think that the candidate who mocked a disabled journalist, from the party that has tried to block rights for LGBT since forever, is a better option? You don't show sympathy for your own, just to fit your bias OP? I find that hard to believe.
 
thats something normal from someone that learn the language, I don't expect them to speak the language flawlessly, maybe you have the bar too high for someone under his shoes.
Yes, it's normal for someone that is learning the language. Not so for someone that's being trumpeted as a fluent Spanish speaker.

Solo digo que no lo habla con fluidez. No creo que estoy siendo tiquismiquis. Alguien que habla con fluidez no titubearía sobre qué género usar.
 
Yes, it's normal for someone that is learning the language. Not so for someone that's being trumpeted as a fluent Spanish speaker.

Solo digo que no lo habla con fluidez. No creo que estoy siendo tiquismiquis. Alguien que habla con fluidez no titubearía sobre qué género usar.
Huh? Isn't "No creo que esté" the right way of saying that?
 
Imo throwing your vote away is not taking advantage of your right to vote at all. If you find a candidate that tailors to you, then vote for them.

People are always going to be bitter and scream chicken little at a person because X candidate didn't perform as they expected in the election.
 
Whatevs helps you sleep at night, OP.

I personally can't wait to see American troops fulfill their executive order by beheading innocent women and children on video and @ mentioning ISIS' account in their tweet. Or nuking a civilian population in the Levant cus of slightly above average extremist count.

That'll teach $hillary for being such a hawk
 
Also:

1. Move to New York.

2. Join one of the Queer affinity groups I roll with. If someone tries to mess with you ever again, we will fuck them up.

Be safe out there.

Other people will take care of the other part, because I don't feel like arguing with anyone currently. (Perhaps later.)

That said, I'm staying here. I'm a trans rights activist, have been for six years since I turned 18, and I originally came here to start a new life with my partner but I will remain here to fight for said rights in this state. For example, employment discrimination laws doesn't allow allow anyone to be discriminated for anything, except for three exceptions.

Spousal affiliation (applies to employers with 50 or more employees)

Sexual orientation (includes perceived sexual orientation; applies to employers with 15 or more employees)

Gender identity (employers with 15 or more employees)

These things need to be challenged and I will not be silent, I will not stop fighting for the rights that I and many others deserve. I will struggle if I need to, but I will ensure the fight lives on. I will continue speaking up, I will continue marching down, and I will not stop until we are treated equally, until we get the dignity and justice we deserve.
 
Whatevs helps you sleep at night, OP.

I personally can't wait to see American troops fulfill their executive order by beheading innocent women and children on video and @ mentioning ISIS' account in their tweet. Or nuking a civilian population in the Levant cus of slightly above average extremist count.

That'll teach $hillary for being such a hawk
She's been so good to the Middle East. Democrats would never wage an unjust war!
 
Why the fuck aren't you people voting for Hilary god dammit.

I'm British, but from the outside it is so fucking plainly obvious that she is not only the only viable option, but a great one.

Years of experience, great relationships around the world, smart and presidential.

She is - as Obama said - perhaps the most qualified person in the last few decades to be president. She will do a fantastic job.

Voting for anyone else is voting for Trump.


Lol.

I'm also british but i think hilary is fucking awful and only slightly better than trump so its not that obvious is it. it seems you arent very familiar with hilary, like her tenure as secretary of state wasnt very good m8

the only way you should vote for hilary is extreme begrudging.

dont try and scare people trying to oust the awful two party quagmire with the trump bogeyman

at least trump pretends he will help the average person. hilary is just the status quo
 
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