Subnautica developer demands G2A pay $300,000 to cover lost chargebacks

Shifty

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I'm missing the part where G2A 'offered' to reimburse them for 10x the revenue lost from key chargebacks.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of a studio suffering because of a dodgy key outlet sucks, but without context this just looks like a ragepost.
 

Kenpachii

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It's gonna happen around the same time the AAA industry shelves MTX and lootboxes.
Pretty much, zero respect for those game company's.

I just bought ac origin for 27 bucks the entire edition and it was solid

Then towards there ac odyssey which is a single player game at full price, riddled with paid skins / content / weapons and exp/money.

Can't even mod your game or you get banned.

Fucking disgusting.
 
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Shifty

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Ah, ta very much. It sounds like there are a lot of T&Cs to satisfy around 'money proven to be lost' before they pay out, so I guess it's time to grab the popcorn and see how this feud-in-the-making plays out.

I'm also curious as to why he appended the gamesindustry.biz article about only 19 of the 100 developers calling for G2A's prospective key-blocker. Is that meant to prove lost sales somehow, or just act as a relevant-ish addendum? :unsure:
 

Helios

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I'm also curious as to why he appended the gamesindustry.biz article about only 19 of the 100 developers calling for G2A's prospective key-blocker.
He made a response to that article - the one you can see in his tweet. As to what that has to do with the article. Who knows. It's an article critical of g2a which means it's a way for him to push his product probably. Same thing that Mike Ross, the guy he cited in his response, did with Descenders. The one g2a responded to with :
We checked out of curiosity – how many Descenders keys, since its release in May, came to G2A Marketplace. The number is… 5. Not 5 thousand. Not 5 hundred. Just 5.
Bunch of opportunists all around.
 
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TheCockatrice

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You know what, I don't like G2A, but I do use other third party sellers like cdkeys and I'd rather support these sites than scummy corporations that charge 60 euros for bare bones games that have the nerve to ask extra cash from consumers to complete the experience like Paradox does which sadly everyone keeps supporting. Theres obviously going to be some decent companies and indie developers that will suffer due to gray markets but most indies do well even with these issues. Credit card frauds should not be supported regardless but I dont kow if G2A truly does that kind of thing anymore or if it ever did.
 
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Nikana

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I interviewed a couple of developers about this issue and it really seems like this only affects a small amount of developers but those small devs are hit very hard.
 

Schmick

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You know what, I don't like G2A, but I do use other third party sellers like cdkeys and I'd rather support these sites than scummy corporations that charge 60 euros for bare bones games that have the nerve to ask extra cash from consumers to complete the experience like Paradox does which sadly everyone keeps supporting. Theres obviously going to be some decent companies and indie developers that will suffer due to gray markets but most indies do well even with these issues. Credit card frauds should not be supported regardless but I dont kow if G2A truly does that kind of thing anymore or if it ever did.
I paid £20 for City Skylines when it game out.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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G2A put it out there, so this seems like fair play.

Wonder how G2A will respond. Will they move the goalposts or otherwise try to disprove Unknown World's methodology, or will they honor the promise?
 

manfestival

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Just want to put it out there. It isn't better that they pirate over buying a secondhand key. This train of thought is poor especially from the consumer's perspective(games as service types, multiplayer, support, cheaper cost, and etc) since they are the one ultimately committing to the product.

Also the PR from subnautica is poor since they are doing a virtue signal for the whole world to see on Twitter. I guess this is just everyone trying to take down "the bad guy" despite other services like kinguin and etc existing. They are going hard on g2a(well they put their own foot in their mouths mostly) over all others.
 

Spukc

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Instead of calling them out on Twitter, they should get in contact with G2A, produce the receipts that G2A is at fault and get their 300k.

Calling them out on Twitter won't get them the 300k.
it does make you look like a trucking asshole tho
 

Shai-Tan

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You know what, I don't like G2A, but I do use other third party sellers like cdkeys and I'd rather support these sites than scummy corporations that charge 60 euros for bare bones games that have the nerve to ask extra cash from consumers to complete the experience like Paradox does which sadly everyone keeps supporting. Theres obviously going to be some decent companies and indie developers that will suffer due to gray markets but most indies do well even with these issues. Credit card frauds should not be supported regardless but I dont kow if G2A truly does that kind of thing anymore or if it ever did.
It's hard to take a self righteous rant like this seriously when you could not buy or play the game. You're not entitled to it. Nearly every game I don't want to pay $80+ CAD for is eventually on sale on Steam. I get why people use services like this or pirate but don't try to dress it up.
 

Mithos

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G2A put it out there, so this seems like fair play.

Wonder how G2A will respond. Will they move the goalposts or otherwise try to disprove Unknown World's methodology, or will they honor the promise?
If you read the link AV posted above, then they will do nothing as long as it's the developer themselves claiming things...
 
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TheCockatrice

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It's hard to take a self righteous rant like this seriously when you could not buy or play the game. You're not entitled to it. Nearly every game I don't want to pay $80+ CAD for is eventually on sale on Steam. I get why people use services like this or pirate but don't try to dress it up.
No one is dressing it up. It's a fact. Its the sole reason why gray markets are so popular. I havent seen a developer complain about cdkeys and if you can find a really good reason not to buy from that place I'm all ears. No one is saying buy all your games from there, I certainly don't even though a 60 euro game is 10% out of my countries average income but dont take that as an excuse. I'm just stating things why most people use these sites. G2A, assuming its true, is using fraudulent stolen cards. cdkeys and other safer third party sellers are an entirely different thing. So take your self-righteous pro corporative talk elsewhere.
 
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Aug 30, 2018
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I interviewed a couple of developers about this issue and it really seems like this only affects a small amount of developers but those small devs are hit very hard.
Funny you mention that
I have an acquaintance who does some dev in the games industry, and he flat out said that most studios he's worked for don't really give a hoot about piracy and just throw in DRM to make a show for investors

Something something he and a few of his coworkers worked on a DRM for their software in their off time and it was rejected as being "Too costly to implement," or something of that nature
When they already had and were demonstrating it implemented IN their software lol

Manglement at it again
 

CSmath22

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Reminder, this is the same nutjob who cried about Sandy Hook and the daily (only in his soy infested imagination) school shootings in America as the reason Subnautica doesn't have guns (but vehicles, which kill far more people, are perfectly fine. As are knives.)
 
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TheCockatrice

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Whoa whoa whoa. This is news to me. I didn't realize G2A bought keys with stolen credit cards.
Thats what some indie devs are saying. We dont have proof though, at least I dont know if the Subnautica dev ever provided one. It's all just assumptions.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Whoa whoa whoa. This is news to me. I didn't realize G2A bought keys with stolen credit cards.
G2A is a markeplace. eBay doesn't sell counterfeit Game Boy Advance cartridges, either. The storefronts do.

Now, what G2A could do is to require additional layers of verification from key sellers to help crack down on theft. eBay's way of handling fraud was to enlist PayPal as a third-party payment processor and dispute mediator. Sounds like G2A has (or plans to have) some kind of key verifier? I dunno.

I can see where devs are coming from... kinda. Aside from the CC fraud, these keys are valid keys. It's not like there's a nerd clicking a mid-90s keygen software and copying the codes to G2A. These are legitimate keys bought fraudulently with stolen credit cards, which means it's a seller issue. G2A should figure out a way to police their own sellers and to put chargebacks on them.

But this kind of reaffirms the gaming industry's attitude toward game ownership. Folks should be able to sell off their extra keys.
 

zeorhymer

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G2A should figure out a way to police their own sellers and to put chargebacks on them.
Back to my point. Why is G2A singled out to do this? Someone mentioned CDKeys and they don't do such things. Same with Craigslist, but for some reason, everyone is dumping on G2A as if they're the devil incarnate. It's deja vu with media outlet smearing.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Back to my point. Why is G2A singled out to do this? Someone mentioned CDKeys and they don't do such things. Same with Craigslist, but for some reason, everyone is dumping on G2A as if they're the devil incarnate. It's deja vu with media outlet smearing.
I'm merely suggesting it as a good business move. If you're interpreting me as someone who is singling out G2A, you've got the wrong poster. :messenger_beaming:
 

NickFire

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I find it very hard to take anyone seriously who suggests it is better for someone to steal their stuff instead of buying it from someone else.
 
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Nikana

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Funny you mention that
I have an acquaintance who does some dev in the games industry, and he flat out said that most studios he's worked for don't really give a hoot about piracy and just throw in DRM to make a show for investors

Something something he and a few of his coworkers worked on a DRM for their software in their off time and it was rejected as being "Too costly to implement," or something of that nature
When they already had and were demonstrating it implemented IN their software lol

Manglement at it again
From the devs I talked to for my YouTube channel to it came down to a numbers thing. They only have so many hours a day to see when codes are being used fraudulently. And spending time to chase it down can take days.
 

V4skunk

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I use g2a and cdkeys quite often. Permanent steam sale 24/7 and I will take advantage of it.
 

Helios

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G2A responded

Launched in 2014, G2A Marketplace was celebrating its 5th birthday this year. The said keys were allegedly stolen and sold before March 8, 2013 – 6 years ago. Charlie wrote: “We paid $30,000 to deal with credit card chargebacks because of G2A.” That’s just slander, and we expect him to at least edit his posts, if not straight up apologize.

However, if Charlie Cleveland would like us to hire a professional auditing company to check if the keys from before 2014 appeared on a non-existing marketplace, we encourage him to contact the G2A Direct team, as per the initial offer.

PS: This is what G2A.COM looked like at the beginning of 2013.

Source

PS2: A bit of trivia for archeologists: before G2A Marketplace, there was a small retailer with a different name – go2arena. Its business model was totally different as well – it was a regular store, not an open marketplace. It didn’t have Natural Selection 2 in its offer.

PS3: The list of developers who signed up for the key-blocking tool was always meant to be public. If it wasn’t, there would be people saying: “G2A actually doesn’t want to create this tool, so they’re claiming the devs didn’t sign up at all! I’m 100000% sure there are thousands of developers who would like to use it!”

As I said before. It seems like the Subnautica devs are only trying to jump in on the hate bandwagon in order to gain some attention.
 
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DiscoJer

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Seems like the root problem are the game developers using their own online stores to sell keys and accepting stolen credit cards.
 

Helios

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Developer Fumes About Keyseller G2A, But Admits He Was Wrong About $300,000 Complaint

Cleveland now tells Kotaku that he can’t blame G2A for that exact incident involving gray market keys, but he maintains that his games’ keys are sold on G2A’s marketplace and G2A negatively impacts his business. He said he has repeatedly asked the marketplace to remove them, too. “They’ve never done it,” he said. “They just change the conversations to us selling our keys formally through them.”

As for the Factorio problem:
Reached over email last night, Scott Klonan, community manager for the Factorio studio said Wube agreed to an independent audit to determine the amount of money stolen a month ago. It will take a few more weeks to complete the audit.
 
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